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Take a peek, metion any balance issues one might have.
*As done by another map maker on this forum (a suggestion I liked) the Gold expansions are blocked by rocks along with a hostile force of 6 marines and 2 marauders.
*the player is forced to take the gold furthest from the main and stretch expansion into half map divides.
*3rd does not have gas
Pathing images below as well (thanks to SC2 Map Analyzer)
Lowtown v1
+ Show Spoiler +
Lowtown v4
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Pathing walls added to plaza
+ Show Spoiler +
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Again, i appreciate the advice and am excited about improving this map bit by bit.
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Looks like a funny map. Cannot state any balance problems at the moment. Also great that you use the SC2 Map Analyzer! :D
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why does every map need a backdoor d-rock and every gold base need d-rock? Why is the nat so far away from the ramp? why is mapsize/paths so small/narrow?
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United States7166 Posts
I do agree with charlie about the rocks. I think it's a little bit better to have no rocks at the gold (it's already not easy to defend given its location. it's not like Lost Temple's gold expo. rocks are unnecessary) As for the main's backdoor rocks, given the structure of the map, I don't think it's a good idea to have 2 entrances to the base like that, I can already picture many circumstances where that would be a total mess to try to cover such a wide amount of ground.
Most importantly though, I'd like to see a much more wide open Center area. something like Longinus's Center is sort of what i'm thinking here. Wide open centers are important for easier flanks, allows more room for unit positioning, allows much more freedom of movement/battling which is a good thing for the center of maps.
As for charlie's narrow path complaint, i almost agree however if you look at the main path between the 2 bases, it's Just barely wide enough I think.
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I think back door rocks are an integral part of SC2 along with gold expo rocks.
Removing the back door rocks would mean removing the back door and that eliminates the other half of the map as a pathing option. Blocked back doors as such present the player with the decesion of making their main more vulnerable, but at the same time opening up an entirely new flank.
I appreciate the advice, but i have to disagree with the map size comment. The map size for a 1v1 is actually quite large. There are narrow paths, especially the left and right of the plaza center, however the high ground is fitted with 9.0 ramps. The center is more passable that one thinks.
Now could that be better suited as low ground?
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Let me jump on the no D-rock at gold train. This is all over people's maps. Yeah, gold is good but it's not KILLER. Gold expo with 6 patches has less over minerals! And yeah, some regular expos are good too, like on high ground with one ramp. No one puts d-rocks on those expos! It's just a matter of giving each expo a flavor, and some will be better than others, that's ok.
But maybe put d-rock on a gold expo on an island to make it require some extra effort?
On topic: the terrain and texturing look nice. Question: those long skinny ridges at the top left and bottom right behind the gold and regular expo--can units walk on them and harrass the bases? If so, why not fuse them into a decent-wide ridge so units can maneuver up there. If you want to expand to either base nearby, could be prudent to station your forces on the ridge rather than sitting in the mineral line.
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Natural is tankable and on low ground, very hard to defend 3rd (cliffs above it make it even worse), min only is also tankable, two ways into main (three once you break down the rocks -_-), very small chokes in the middle. I see only two places that terran can't abuse and that would be the main and middle expansions. Very unbalanced, consider removing ramps to natural and cliffs above expansions.
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On July 02 2010 05:04 dimfish wrote:
Let me jump on the no D-rock at gold train. This is all over people's maps. Yeah, gold is good but it's not KILLER. Gold expo with 6 patches has less over minerals! And yeah, some regular expos are good too, like on high ground with one ramp. No one puts d-rocks on those expos! It's just a matter of giving each expo a flavor, and some will be better than others, that's ok.
But maybe put d-rock on a gold expo on an island to make it require some extra effort?
On topic: the terrain and texturing look nice. Question: those long skinny ridges at the top left and bottom right behind the gold and regular expo--can units walk on them and harrass the bases? If so, why not fuse them into a decent-wide ridge so units can maneuver up there. If you want to expand to either base nearby, could be prudent to station your forces on the ridge rather than sitting in the mineral line.
The terrian you mentioned was done so more out of simple design taste so I think your statement is quite valid. It might look pretty, but it could actually serve a purpose.
Also, i think ill remove the rocks as well from the gold.
Thank you for the comment, the textures did take quite a bit of time!
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United States7166 Posts
i spoke a bit too soon, i edited my post after looking more carefully and thinking about it some more, just before you posted below me konicki.
also I just realized how far the 'natural' expos are from the main's ramp. both certainly seem pretty difficult to defend + also guard your main ramp at the same time. add to that the backdoor and guarding an expo + main + backdoor seems almost impossible, whoever has center map control has too much of an advantage
and the "choke" for the 12 and 6 oclock expos are extremely huge and wide open (and apparently it's an uphill ramp too), so making that your natural expo seems like a bad idea, given also the distance from that expo to your main's ramp.
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No no, the naturals are behind the main. The minerals only and large ramp lead to the 3rd.
As far as releiving conjestion in the middle, I agree a Terran has a couple of places to tank, but this is not the size of something like IZ and a Terran player would become extremely stretched. To avoid a Terran sieging up in the plaza and securing the map center i may add ramps to the walls directly above and below the 11 and 5 o'clock gold expos.
Ill uplod another image in a couple of minutes.
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-no expansions in the center of the map
-watchtowers r too close together
-high yield expansions have too many crystals, should have only 6
-make the mineral expansions into normal expansions with gas because there is not enough normal bases for later game macro
-mains need to be larger
-extend the border of the map to make flying harass more of an option
-put line of sight blockers in the main in a half circle around the backdoor destructible rocks
Good luck making something good out of this, you can do it though! 
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Also I hate the name of this map (Uptown Lowtown).
I'm sure you can be more creative than that.
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On July 02 2010 05:39 Antares777 wrote:-no expansions in the center of the map -watchtowers r too close together -high yield expansions have too many crystals, should have only 6 -make the mineral expansions into normal expansions with gas because there is not enough normal bases for later game macro -mains need to be larger -extend the border of the map to make flying harass more of an option -put line of sight blockers in the main in a half circle around the backdoor destructible rocks Good luck making something good out of this, you can do it though!
-majority of maps dont have expansion in the center, including most of the classics.
-the two watch towers in the middle could effectively be replaced with one
-high yield DO have 6 patches (glasses?)
-gas could be added, but i stuck with minerals only to take from some of the classic SC1 maps.
-small mains favor Zerg
-this could be done, you mean room enough to avoid being spotted by a tower?
-this is a good take from BS, i can do that.
Look im not going to be arrogant about this, but ive been making maps for a long time and this is a well made map. Like all maps though it need to be refined until its playable and more or less balanced (as balance is never truly agreed upon).
The good luck making something of this is misplaced as it already has a lot of potential. I dont confuse potential with perfection though.
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On July 02 2010 05:39 Antares777 wrote:
-gas could be added, but i stuck with minerals only to take from some of the classic SC1 maps.
-small mains favor Zerg
Look im not going to be arrogant about this, but ive been making maps for a long time and this is a well made map. Like all maps though it need to be refined until its playable and more or less balanced (as balance is never truly agreed upon).
1) this is sc2, not sc1, things that worked in sc1 don't necessarily work in sc2.
2) Why purposefully make it favor one race over the other? (and btw, your natural is impossible to defend, worse than Desert Oasis)
and....it doesn't matter how long you've been making maps, you need to accept criticism
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On July 02 2010 05:58 OpRaider wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2010 05:39 Antares777 wrote:
-gas could be added, but i stuck with minerals only to take from some of the classic SC1 maps.
-small mains favor Zerg
Look im not going to be arrogant about this, but ive been making maps for a long time and this is a well made map. Like all maps though it need to be refined until its playable and more or less balanced (as balance is never truly agreed upon).
1) this is sc2, not sc1, things that worked in sc1 don't necessarily work in sc2. 2) Why purposefully make it favor one race over the other? (and btw, your natural is impossible to defend, worse than Desert Oasis) and....it doesn't matter how long you've been making maps, you need to accept criticism
Trust me this map has been posted for criticisms sake. I am open to it, but snide comments like, good luck making this useful are again "misplaced". This map has a lot of time and effort put into it and you can see that, this isnt some crapshot i mixed up in 20 min.
As far as your reflections:
1. I think your right, gas may be necessary, however I was debating whether a gasless 3rd might force Terran to move out more.
2. Small mains do favor Zerg but there are things here that favor Terran as well. Back doors favor prottoss. It is a balance of things favoring all races, a mixture. It is certainly not meant to favor zerg.
3. Consider this. A nat that moves away from the opponent favors Zerg, though its placement in relation to the cliffs of the main favor Terran. Protoss, of course gains warp in. There is a lot here that favors Terran which is what we hear about the most, cliffs this and cliffs that, small chokes this and small chokes that.
I am not saying that the commentary is not valid, because it is, however, you need to consider also what works against each race in particular. The nat in DO can be very difficult for a terran to secure.
I decided to make the nat open to attack from two angles, but also directed away from the opponent to serve on race and not another so that in other parts of the map the race not served by an open nat may very well find advantageous a small cliff travel distance. You cannot create a nat that is perfect for all three races, nor a main.
Different types benifit different races. What you can do is level the playing field by offering each race dynamic ways to seek their specific advantage in a map.
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Yes i am blind  jk
sorry couldn't count the number of crystals
I wasn't trying to be offensive at all.
I even put the thumbs up symbol!
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On July 02 2010 04:47 CharlieMurphy wrote:
why does every map need a backdoor d-rock and every gold base need d-rock? Why is the nat so far away from the ramp? why is mapsize/paths so small/narrow?
Golds need DRs so that Terran doesn't lift there from his main with his CC
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I agree completely with Charlie Murphy at the beginning.
On July 02 2010 06:46 Antares777 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2010 04:47 CharlieMurphy wrote:
why does every map need a backdoor d-rock and every gold base need d-rock? Why is the nat so far away from the ramp? why is mapsize/paths so small/narrow? Golds need DRs so that Terran doesn't lift there from his main with his CC
... it's not even a good strat really... look at far how you'd have to fly...
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Yeah but it is a small map.
Oops forgot the marine marauders there would kill you
lol nvm
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EPT![[image loading]](http://wl.filegenie.com/~konicki/uplow.jpeg)
![[image loading]](http://wl.filegenie.com/~konicki/od4..1.jpeg)
![[image loading]](http://wl.filegenie.com/~konicki/od4.1.jpeg)
![[image loading]](http://wl.filegenie.com/~konicki/plaza.jpg)
