• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
TeamLiquid Liquipedia LiquidDota LiquidLegends
EDT 08:06
CEST 14:06
KST 21:06
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TSL7 - Week 3 - The Finish Line4WTL Summer - Regular Season Awards & Power Rank Review17Code A Season 2 - Day 3 Preview (2021)12TSL7 - Week 2 - Order or Chaos?11Code A Season 2 - Day 2 Preview (2021)5
Community News
[TSL 7] Shopify's True or False with TLO, Week 365OlimoLeague to continue with invitational format7ESL Open Week #76: Zest, Reynor, and Cure win4GSL Season 2 - Code A concludes, Code S groups determined31Charity - Cheese Out Cancer19
StarCraft 2
General
[TSL 7] Shopify's True or False with TLO, Week 3 herO joins DPG TSL7 - Week 3 - The Finish Line herO join Team Dragon Phoenix Gaming OlimoLeague to continue with invitational format
Tourneys
NeXT 2021 Season 1 SC2 Masters Charity - Cheese Out Cancer $50 The Pizza Pie: Weekly 9 [APS] BattleB, Vanya, AqueroN, Rom Afreeca World 77!
Strategy
How To Fix 'Tilt': A Guide Terran LotV builds EASY Beginner Zerg Build Order Guide [2021] Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[M] (4) Nautilus SC2 Desert strike [M] (4) Spark [F](2)Pride of Altaris
External Content
Mutation # 270 Cremation The StarCraft Observer Podcast Episode #6 Mutation # 269 The Ultimate Price Mutation # 268 Rumble in the Jungle
Brood War
General
SCV float glich cheating ASL11 Revenge Battle BW on Mac vs PC State of BW in Korea, sponsoring, crowdfunding etc Alpha Omega Series Dandy v Yabsab & Dewalt v Ample
Tourneys
Korean Pro King of the Hill CasterMuse x Tastosis KOTH PSL Brood War Invitational #1 [RCG 2021] - Ro16 Group Stage - This Weekend!
Strategy
Why does flash play terran. [Micro Map] Valkyrie vs. Carrier Arena 1.0 Valkyrie dmg formula? Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
Heroes of the Storm
[HotS] Unofficial World Championship (Part 2) HotS: WP and Funny Moments [HotS] Unofficial World Championship (Part 1) [HotS] Korean Final Boss: FiSH Bowl Heroes League Patch 54.0: Globes, Loans and Tons of Reworks
General Games
Diablo 2 thread EVE Corporation Nintendo Switch Thread CS:GO ranking system is trash Deus Ex (re)install thread
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread British Empire Mini Mafia
Hearthstone
Is Hearthstone Gambling?
LoL General
LoL Tournaments
LoL Strategy
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Post your favorite song lyrics The Games Industry And ATVI European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Coronavirus and You
Fan Clubs
The Scarlett Fan Club NaNiwa Fan Club! GuMiho Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Korean Music Discussion Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Dragon Ball Super Discussion [TV] HBO Game of Thrones
Sports
2020 - 2021 Football Thread NHL 21: Tony DeActivito Did Nazi That Coming NBA General Discussion Formula1 2019 UFC/MMA Discussion Thread
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread The Ultimate Mouse Thread How do I list my stream on tl.net?
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Ask TL Staff Anything
Blogs
Heading North - A Pacific Cres…
Tak3r
Some thoughts about …
waywardstrategy
2021: Who to watch in CSGO…
Ragnarork
MH2 Prerelease Recap…
TheRealNanMan
Dragoon Sweet Tart
BigFan
The StarCraft O…
TheStarCraftObserver
Post Malone Remix
WindOw
A decade of Starcraft 2: 201…
Nakajin
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 897 users

The Gas Issue, second edition

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 Next All
spinesheath
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Germany6065 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-05 20:15:04
May 05 2010 20:14 GMT
#1
Did you notice how a few years ago suddenly all SCBW maps had all the geysirs in main bases either to the top or to the right of the main building? The Gas Issue had been discovered: Other geysir placements would result in less gas per minute if you always used three workers.
SC2 doesn't suffer as much from the gas issue. However, there are a few things worth mentioning.

[image loading]
Without a picture at this spot I'd lose half of my readers.



The Test


I fought a fierce battle with the new Map Editor. The result isn't pretty. But it works (if you know how). I tested 56 geysir positions for all 3 races over 300 game seconds and wrote down the remaining gas for each position. A few calculations later I designed a bunch of fancy pictures in MSPaint.


The Results


The first result is that all three races mine gas at the same speed. This was not the case in SCBW.

The other results will be supported by pictures. The big blue square is your townhall. The light blue area around it is the area that cannot have any resources in it. The small colorful squares each represent the center of a geysir. A full geysir would cover an area of 3x3 squares.

[image loading]
Relative mining rates with 3 workers.


This picture displays the the mining rate for three workers per geysir relative to the absolute maximum mining rate. As you can see there are barely any differences. Geysirs in diagonal positions already look a bit suspicious though.

[image loading]
Relative mining rates with 2 workers.


Who says that you have to put three workers on gas all the time? As you can see, you can harvest with up to 79% of the maximum mining rate with only two workers. You have to be careful though, because the mining rates of some positions are much worse than others.

[image loading]
Mining rates with 2 workers, relative to the mining rates with 3 workers.


If we compare the mining rates with two workers to the mining rates with three workers, the results are not as bad. And in fact this is all that counts when you have to decide if you put two or three workers on a geysir. Unless you are considering using a fourth worker.


Ladder Maps

[image loading]
Indexing the positions.


Before I can talk about the maps, I need a way to reference geysir positions. We start from the red square with the number 1 and go clockwise around the townhall until we reach number 56.

+ Show Spoiler [Blistering Sands] +

Top right:
52 (top), a bad position
19 (bottom), bad for two workers

Bottom left:
47 (top), bad for two workers
24 (bottom), bad for two workers


+ Show Spoiler [Desert Oasis] +

Top:
45 (top), a good position
41 (bottom), a good position

Bottom:
13 (top), a good position
17 (bottom), a good position


+ Show Spoiler [Incineration Zone] +

Left:
1 (top), a good position
30 (bottom), a good position

Bottom:
43 (left), a good position
15 (right), a good position


+ Show Spoiler [Kulas Ravine] +

Top left:
43 (top), a good position
36 (bottom), bad for two workers

Top right:
15 (top), a good position
22 (bottom), a bad position

Bottom left:
50 (top), a bad position
43 (bottom), a good position

Bottom right:
8 (top), bad for two workers
15 (bottom), a good position


+ Show Spoiler [Lost Temple] +

Left:
55 (top), a good position
31 (bottom), a good position

Top:
45 (left), a good position
13 (right), a good position

Right:
3 (top), a good position
27 (bottom), a good position

Bottom:
41 (left), a good position
17 (right), a good position


+ Show Spoiler [Metalopolis] +

Left:
38 (top), a bad position
32 (bottom), a good position

Top:
8 (top), bad for two workers
13 (bottom), a good position

Right:
4 (top), a good position
10 (bottom), a bad position

Bottom:
41 (top), a good position
36 (bottom), bad for two workers


+ Show Spoiler [Scrap Station] +

Top:
54 (top), a good position
19 (right), bad for two workers

Right:
53 (top), bad for two workers
18 (right), a good position


+ Show Spoiler [Steppes of War] +

Top:
53 (top), bad for two workers
18 (right), a good position

Bottom:
46 (left), a good position
25 (bottom), bad for two workers



Conclusion


In SC2 the Gas Issue is much less problematic than in SCBW. It still is something you might want to keep in mind, especially if you consider using less than three workers on gas. Which was my main motivation for this research; it will come in handy for a build I am currently working on.
SC2 map makers should also be aware of these results. You only have to avoid a few positions in SC2, in SCBW you had to avoid all positions except for two.
If you have a good reason to disagree with the above, please tell me. Thank you.
ilovejonn
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Canada2524 Posts
May 05 2010 20:21 GMT
#2
Woah thanks.
Snowflakes in January, Heart warm like February, I wouldn't ordinarily..
Erucious
Profile Joined March 2010
Norway392 Posts
May 05 2010 20:26 GMT
#3
Great work! Not sure what i personally would do with this info, but good work nonetheless!
I'm Norwegian/Dutch. Just the awesome parts of them though :D
Grhym
Profile Joined April 2010
177 Posts
May 05 2010 20:27 GMT
#4
Woah I'd never know if it weren't for this, great post
あ
MorroW
Profile Joined August 2008
Sweden3522 Posts
May 05 2010 20:30 GMT
#5
great post, proven that the ai is very strong and all that matters is the distance and not some stupid "on top of cc or left side of cc" which u had to think of in sc1
Progamerpls no copy pasterino
zealing
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Canada806 Posts
May 05 2010 20:30 GMT
#6
"Without a picture at this spot I'd lose half of my readers."

YOU SIR........ARE A GENNIUS!!!

but serious dude man nice work this must have taken like a while or something.

gg ty
Think you got lag? It took Jesus 3 days to respawn.
Bensio
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United Kingdom620 Posts
May 05 2010 20:31 GMT
#7
Very nice work!
Thamoo
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada234 Posts
May 05 2010 20:31 GMT
#8
Never place 2 workers on gaz on blistering sand!
wat?
Jarvs
Profile Joined December 2009
Australia630 Posts
May 05 2010 20:32 GMT
#9
Wow, this is so incredibly indepth and useful. To find out that not all spawns were created equal in SC2 did surprise me.
ZeroCartin
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Costa Rica2357 Posts
May 05 2010 20:33 GMT
#10
Awesome 1000th post Thanks alot!
"My sister is on vacation in Costa Rica right now. I hope she stays a while because she's a miserable cunt." -pubbanana
coltrane
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Chile986 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-05 20:35:57
May 05 2010 20:33 GMT
#11
This was surprisingly simple to follow. You did an excellent job. Thank you so much for your effort.


On May 06 2010 05:32 Jarvs wrote:
Wow, this is so incredibly indepth and useful. To find out that not all spawns were created equal in SC2 did surprise me.



Actually, I like it much, knowing for sure that the core of the game is in some sort not perfect, so we can discover many things designers never thought about. That only adds complexity and creativity to the game.
Jävla skit
Clearout
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Norway1027 Posts
May 05 2010 20:35 GMT
#12
"Without a picture at this spot i'd lose half my readers" Made me lol
really?
pyr0ma5ta
Profile Joined May 2010
United States458 Posts
May 05 2010 20:37 GMT
#13
Good to know.
"I made you a zergling, but I eated it." - Defiler
Chill
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
Calgary25727 Posts
May 05 2010 20:39 GMT
#14
Wow this is really interesting. Thanks!
Moderator
Razamataz
Profile Joined October 2007
Canada132 Posts
May 05 2010 20:42 GMT
#15
I love threads like this. Thank you for taking the time!
tyCe
Profile Joined March 2010
Australia2213 Posts
May 05 2010 20:51 GMT
#16
Thanks for a great thread!
Betrayed by EG.BuK
Bob300
Profile Joined April 2010
United States505 Posts
May 05 2010 20:53 GMT
#17
The picture kept me from leaving. Great Work cause in some cases i only use 3 on 1 geyser and 2 on the other.
NYC Suburbs --- College Freshman --- Season 1 - Drone Whiskey
Slunk
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Germany767 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-05 20:54:37
May 05 2010 20:54 GMT
#18
Interesting topic, thank you.
kickinhead
Profile Joined December 2008
Switzerland2066 Posts
May 05 2010 20:55 GMT
#19
AWESOME - thx for the effort!
https://soundcloud.com/thesamplethief
Lao Xuin
Profile Joined March 2010
United States24 Posts
May 05 2010 20:57 GMT
#20
I thank you for the information you have shared us. Keep up the good work!
1 2 3 4 5 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Alpha X Event
12:00
aX Apprentice Group A Week 2
ArT vs BabymarineLIVE!
Fjant vs Vindicta
[Ris3n]Renegade0
Liquipedia
Netease Esports X Tourn…
11:00
3rd Place Match & Finals
Maru vs CureLIVE!
Solar vs Trap
WardiTV1754
RotterdaM1153
Liquid`Crank 1000
OGamingTV SC2 498
TaKeTV 311
IndyStarCraft 262
IntoTheiNu 171
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 1153
Liquid`Crank 1000
IndyStarCraft 262
Harstem 254
Kas 116
Naniwa 55
Ryung 52
Dragon 42
Creator 38
Rex 12
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 5105
Horang2 1783
Calm 1413
Tasteless 1261
Leta 869
Larva 735
Shuttle 727
Mini 697
EffOrt 468
ZerO 317
[ Show more ]
Stork 277
Light 197
BeSt 163
Zeus 142
ZerO(Twitch) 97
Soma 92
Snow 90
hero 68
sSak 65
actioN 48
Rush 43
BeSt(Twitch) 37
PianO 34
Noble 34
Soulkey 24
Hyuk 21
hero(twitch) 13
sorry 11
Hyun 7
MisO 6
yabsab 5
Heroes of the Storm
crisheroes329
Counter-Strike: Global Offensive
ceh9721
Other Games
tarik_tv3247
m0e_tv1505
MaximusBlack789
nookyyy 626
WinterStarcraft452
StaRiX170
JimRising 93
QueenE62
Lowko37
BRAT_OK33
Organizations
Other Games
B2W.Neo1312
Counter-Strike: Global Offensive
ESL CS:GO1143
StarCraft 2
ESL.tv308
Other Games
ESL262
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• D4rkn0ob1k 9
• maralekos 3
• Alpha X_
• AlphaB_SC2
• Migwel
• Laughngamez YouTube
• LaughNgamez Trovo
• IndyKCrew
• Kozan
• Gussbus
• intothetv
• aXEnki
• AweesomeSauce
SC2: Legacy of the Void
• KarlJayG
• PSISTORM Gaming
StarCraft: Brood War
• blackmanpl 3
• sscaitournament1
• AfreecaTV YouTube
Upcoming Events
Challenge Wars
1h 54m
HeRoMaRinE vs Clem
MaxPax vs Lambo
ShoWTimE vs Neeb
Elazer vs souL
OSC
4h 54m
Showmatch
12h 54m
PSISTORM Gaming Misc
15h 54m
StarCraft BJ Destructio…
21h 54m
Online Event
21h 54m
ArchonX
22h 54m
Solar vs ByuN & TY
WardiTV Summer Champion…
22h 54m
uThermal vs MarineLorD
souL vs MaNa
Challenge Wars
1d 1h
Theleo-ua Showmatch Ser…
1d 4h
by.maru vs Scan
Dreamer vs TTF
[ Show More ]
Alpha Pro Series
1d 4h
BattleB vs TBD
Vanya vs Arrogfire
BWCL
1d 7h
OSC
1d 11h
ASL11 Revenge Battle
1d 12h
hero vs Snow
StarCraft BJ Destructio…
1d 21h
Russian Cyber Games
2 days
Shopify TSL 7
2 days
CSO Cup
2 days
New Worlds Map Contest:…
2 days
Tech vs vOddy
Sziky vs UltrA
Hawk vs OyAji
Dandy vs Dewalt
OSC
2 days
ESL Pro Tour
2 days
Russian Cyber Games
3 days
Shopify TSL 7
3 days
The Pizza Pie
3 days
ESL Pro Tour
4 days
ESL Pro Tour
4 days
Alpha Omega Series
5 days
Dandy vs Yabsab
Dewalt vs Ample
StarCraft BJ Destructio…
5 days
Queen's Gambit
6 days
Grand Platypus Open
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CasterMuse Narak StarLeague Season 4
2021 GSL S2: Code A
Nexus Forces Tour.
BLAST Premier Spring Finals

Ongoing

CPL Season 7
Costa Rica SL 4
KCM Ladies Race Survival 2021 Season 2
KCM Race Survival 2021 Season 2
BWCL Season 53
Turf Wars Season 2
ASL11 Revenge Battle
LPG Bolivia Season 1
MIT Chobo 2.0
MIT Gosu 2.0
TASL Season 2
ESL ANZ Champs 2021 - Season 1
WTL 2021 Summer
TSL 7
NeXT 2021 S1
Community Clash League S2
Masters Clash Champ. 2021
Elisa Invitational Summer 2021
Spring Sweet Spring #3
ESEA S37 - NA Premier
Gamers Without Borders 2021
ESEA S37 - EU Premier
ESEA S37 - AU Premier

Upcoming

BW Jeez Weekly 115
Deathfate Pro League 2
Alpha Omega Series: Dandy vs yabsab & Dewalt vs Ample
RCG 2021
DDS 8: cRuZa vs Goku vs Conan vs Jhon
theleo_ua showmatch 7
PSL Brood War Invitational #1
DH Masters Summer: Finals
2021 GSL S2: Code S
DreamHack Beyond
DreamHack Beyond Qual. 4
BLAST Premier Fall Groups
ESL Pro League Season 14
CBCS Elite League S2
IEM Cologne 2021
DH Open June 2021
Pinnacle Cup II
StarLadder CIS RMR 2021
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2021 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.