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![[image loading]](http://lh6.ggpht.com/_BUfwoWJGKzs/S9NylhFIGdI/AAAAAAAABNQ/_YDwgT6Vkcw/state-of-the-game-v2.jpg) RSS Feed, Please subscribe >>HERE<< and official site >>HERE<<
UPDATE: Please ready questions for our fourth episode! Louder, Assem, CauthonLuck should be the guests! Thanks.
The podcast has been added to iTunes and should show up in the next couple of hours.
Show can now be downloaded below. We had a last second guest sub in but I think you guys will be happy with the two new guests.
>>DOWNLOAD HERE<<
>>Alternative Link<< (Filefront)
A new week, a new podcast! Just not quite yet. We'll be recording later in the week most likely so I apologize for people clicking this and expecting a brand new cast, however, don't close the thread! We need user questions! The second week we skipped them altogether because of my poor planning. This week, that just won't do.
So if you're interested in submitting a question to ask this weeks cast, simply respond to this post and include a bolded @Question tag before your question. Pretty simple!
Below you can find more information about the podcast if you're a new listener and also links to our previous episodes. Also, this week we have a special treat for everyone: Nony!
Episode 3 Guests:
- JP McDaniel - Host
- Sean "Day[9]" Plott - Co-host / Day[9] Dailies / Commentator
- Liquid`TLO
- Liquid`Jinro
- Tyler "Liquid`NonY" Wasieleski - SC1 Veteran / All-around badass
I'll update this thread with more information as to when we're recording (maybe I'll even do a live show this week? and also download links when we finish it.
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JP here from MLG. If you haven't watched or seen MLG's Showcase Series, then you probably don't know me. If you have, thanks for watching!
A little about me...
+ Show Spoiler +While I don't intend to tell my life story here, I do want to include a little background about my podcasting history. I've run a WoW PvP podcast (oh no, my secrets out!) for two years coming up this June. ArenaCast did quite well for itself, building a community and peaking at around 12,000 weekly downloads on shows. As of late, my interest in the game has slowed down, and I've stopped doing it as my co-hosts bowed out one-by-one.
Podcast Info
I've decided to go ahead and do a podcast -- maybe weekly, maybe bi-weekly, or this may be the first and last episode -- for SC2. Right now its a developing project, so I'm just winging it and naming it State of the Game SC2 Beta Podcast. Keep in mind that I'm still working on molding the show. I'm more of a dive-right-in, fix-it-later type guy so that's what I plan on doing!
SotG 4.9.10
+ Show Spoiler +Episode 2 Guests: - JP McDaniel - Host
- Sean "Day[9]" Plott
- David "EG.Louder" Fells
- Jacob "EG.LzGaMeR" winstead
Topics: - Patch 8
- SC2 evolution vs. SC1 evolution
- Event Watch
- Rising Stars
>>DOWNLOAD HERE<<>>Alternative Link<< (Filefront)
SotG 4.1.10
+ Show Spoiler +Episode 1 Guests: Topics: - Patches - major changes from each patch, thoughts on it
- SC2 vs SC1 - major / minor differences, better / worse?
- Match-up of the week: ZvT - an all encompassing discussion about the match-up
- SC2's gunna be big in e-sports; we know that. What do we want to see happen, though?
- Evolution of Play in SC2 -- Week 1 to Now
- Map Banter: Desert Oasis -- discussions about the map
Podcast is recorded and can be downloaded >>HERE<<>>Alternative Link<< (Filefront) Sorry, download is kinda slow. Sorry, not all topics were covered. Sorry, Nony's computer died right before the cast or something. Hope he's not dead. PLEASE comment and tell me what everyone thinks!
User Questions
- If you're interested in submitting a question to ask this weeks cast, simply respond to this post and include a bolded @Question tag before your question. Pretty simple!
As always, I am constantly looking to improve anything I do on the internetz. If you have any suggestions about topics or you feel like calling me a giant noob then feel free to post!
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mannn... i was ready to listen to it :/
@Question:Let's be honest, even the "high level play" from current "high level players" is pretty low for the brand new game. Knowing this, isn't it only possible to balance the game from an early-rush perspective? How can late-game be confidently tweaked?
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Can you do a discussion on Zerg strategy and units (specially lack of ultralisk use) aswell as zvt zvp this week? Most people seem to think zerg is the best race atm, so would be nice to hear what the experts say.
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and ofc my mind is empty -,-
*also thinks of questions"
On April 21 2010 08:21 Pekkz wrote:
Can you do a discussion on Zerg strategy and units (specially lack of ultralisk use) aswell as zvt zvp this week? Most people seem to think zerg is the best race atm, so would be nice to hear what the experts say.
+ Show Spoiler +can i steal your question  ?
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@QuestionTo Nony: I've heard you use the phoenix rather effectively in your PvZ from time to time. I feel while it can fill a similar role to the corsair in broodwar, in that its a great scout and great for sniping random overlords and giving you air control, but since it doesn't hard counter mutalisks like the corsair in broodwar, i've found it incredibly difficult to hold this air control if the zerg starts fighting me back for it. Also the awkward gas heavyness of earlier DT tech and how quickly hydras seem to destroy phoenixes makes it really difficult to use them similar to how corsair/dt worked in broodwar when going 1 gate tech, and when going FE builds it seems much more useful to get a robo and scout with an observer than building a stargate. I'm interested in your thoughts on the unit and how you use it effectively in your play as I'm clearly missing something important in its uses =[.
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On April 21 2010 08:33 Ftrunkz wrote:
@QuestionTo Nony: I've heard you use the phoenix rather effectively in your PvZ from time to time. I feel while it can fill a similar role to the corsair in broodwar, in that its a great scout and great for sniping random overlords and giving you air control, but since it doesn't hard counter mutalisks like the corsair in broodwar, i've found it incredibly difficult to hold this air control if the zerg starts fighting me back for it. Also the awkward gas heavyness of earlier DT tech and how quickly hydras seem to destroy phoenixes makes it really difficult to use them similar to how corsair/dt worked in broodwar when going 1 gate tech, and when going FE builds it seems much more useful to get a robo and scout with an observer than building a stargate. I'm interested in your thoughts on the unit and how you use it effectively in your play as I'm clearly missing something important in its uses =[.
I'm going to quote this question and help anyone else that decides to post one. Please make your questions as short and concise as possible. This may take some time. Posing good questions often does. With too many words, the heart of the question often gets lost and the inquirer leaves unsatisfied.
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On April 21 2010 08:39 danl9rm wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2010 08:33 Ftrunkz wrote:
@QuestionTo Nony: I've heard you use the phoenix rather effectively in your PvZ from time to time. I feel while it can fill a similar role to the corsair in broodwar, in that its a great scout and great for sniping random overlords and giving you air control, but since it doesn't hard counter mutalisks like the corsair in broodwar, i've found it incredibly difficult to hold this air control if the zerg starts fighting me back for it. Also the awkward gas heavyness of earlier DT tech and how quickly hydras seem to destroy phoenixes makes it really difficult to use them similar to how corsair/dt worked in broodwar when going 1 gate tech, and when going FE builds it seems much more useful to get a robo and scout with an observer than building a stargate. I'm interested in your thoughts on the unit and how you use it effectively in your play as I'm clearly missing something important in its uses =[. I'm going to quote this question and help anyone else that decides to post one. Please make your questions as short and concise as possible. This may take some time. Posing good questions often does. With too many words, the heart of the question often gets lost and the inquirer leaves unsatisfied.
I'm not sure if you're quoting mine as a good example or bad, haha  . But I did actually feel like my question was a little long and i cut down as much of it as i could, but I didn't want an answer that basically stated things i already know about the unit and what i know it is/isn't effective for, hence why i put a fair amount of detail into it, i want to know on top of that (since there has to be something im missing) how nony finds a good use for it in PvZ, or if he feels something im saying is off and why.
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@Question If you could talk about the evolution of mirrors as beta has progressed, specifically ZvZ, and how it compares to how they evolved in BW, that would be very informative I think.
ZvZ has already seemed to evolve from 1 base roach, to +1 speedlings, to using spine crawlers to take safe expos with roaches to defend, now mutas are being thrown in to help take that expo and force the other z to make hydras while you mass roaches on 2 base. It seems like its growing towards a very similar matchup that BW ZvZ was but better.
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Looking forward to the podcast.
@Question Do you think the edition of larger maps to the available map pool would have any effect on the current overall dynamics of the game? For instance, would we see a little less of the clustered army ball trudging about the map, and more smart positions and such?
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@Question: How viable do you consider tech switching for races other then Zerg?
@Question: If the macro mechanics in the game were to be removed from the game or toned down or converted into more of a racial trait (via auto-casting or otherwise) would you see the game become less of what it is? A point brought against the Terran and Zerg macro mechanics, in the several discussion threads that pop up all over the web has been that unlike the protoss macro mechanic they do not require so much decision making as much as they require spamming/APM constantly (a so called APM sink).
@Question: Armies in SC2 seem to die a lot faster then those of similar size in Broodwar. Bases fair no better. Do you consider that the current fragile balance between units and high damage output, as well as the huge potential of 1-base-allin strategies, pulls Starcraft (too much) away from the more "cutesy"/witty timely strategies and tactics we see in the current pro scene to more BGH style "killer push"/"death blow" strategies as well as early game cheese strategies? How do you think the current high food cost (ie. fewer units overall when teching up) and "unit blob effect" affects starcraft as a spectator sport?
@Question: In SC2 Terran can choose to place all their buildings with zero space between them, using supply depos as walkways. This creates a very tight base (testing would seem to show Thors and Tanks have no pathing issues with this sort of layout). In the land of Protoss, simcity style placement is becoming more and more popular in the community due to only the Immortal requiring "a way out". What is your opinion on these new possibilities provided by the new mechanics? Will they allow for base planning in game to evolve to new more complex levels compared to Broodwar where its not just "good placement" anymore (ie. not just "the one and only good way") but a more integral part of your strategy?
@Question: What is your opinion on Worker Mineral and Gas saturation? Some have come forward with statistics indicating how placing only 2 workers in the geyser gives you 80% efficiency (100% being that of 3 guys) as well as how for minerals placing 2 per patch is very very close to optimal with 3 just shaving the last few fractions away and any more then 3 making 0 difference (unlike Broodwar). That in mind do you think in SC2,
-- knowing when to stop making workers will become more important then keeping constant worker production
-- people will move over time from just seemingly favoring double gassing (which costs a extra 225 minerals) to some one-gas builds? Do you think 1-gas builds are possible currently? Can you name some?
-- has a lot of heavy resource surges do to the better pathing and ai? (and mechanics like the Terran MULEs)
-- transferring workers will become a "alternative" strategy as opposed to "the standard" given how making MORE workers in SC2 would seem to just waste time and resources "now" that you can barely hope to ever gain back later (because of the no benefit of going over 3xPatches in workers)? Do you see players gaining a edge by sacking this economy-oriented move in favor of getting either a larger army or macro'ing their base up now to what they can support in 30/60s time when they drop their expansion? (assuming they had 3xPatch and transfer 1/3)
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Can't wait!
@Question: I don't have the beta yet, but I've watched a lot of streams, and siege tanks don't seem to be being used very much. Is this because marauders do the same job just much better, or are they just not necessary like they were in brood war, especially vs protoss?
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@Question: Is the game in its current state sufficiently complex and in-depth enough to hold your attention and dedication to playing it competitively over an extended period of time? If not, what needs to be done?
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@Question What do you think about "one hotkey syndrome"? Is it an actual problem or just people failing to properly acclimate to a more powerful UI (i.e. doing it just 'cause they can)? Do you think SC2 has a good future for micro?
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On April 21 2010 16:53 Bear4188 wrote:
@Question What do you think about "one hotkey syndrome"? Is it an actual problem or just people failing to properly acclimate to a more powerful UI (i.e. doing it just 'cause they can)? Do you think SC2 has a good future for micro?
would like to know more about "one hotkey syndrome"
@Questionis there times when it's ok(ish) ie a MM ball? or a all one unit mix (zerglings/marines/zealots/roaches)
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Love it. Now instead of SC at work/school/home, I can listen to it in between while driving!!
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Thanks for all the questions everyone. It looks like we'll be recording Friday during the day. I'll try to lock down a specific time and get my laptop setup to possibly do a live audio stream. No promises.
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@Question: It seems all protoss matchups revolve around early gateway and robo units. Eventually there is tech to high templar. In the vast majority of games, pheonixes, void rays, DTs, carriers, and the mothership aren't even teched to. Protoss is essentially staying competitive using half of their tech tree. Do you think this is a problem that blizzard needs to address or will the metagame eventually shift to involve the entire protoss tech tree as people gain more experience?
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@Question ZvZ feels like a very complex matchup. With Speedling, Bane/Ling, Roach, Fast Tech and Econ Focused builds - it's got a lot of early game variety. what do you guys think about ZvZ? And which strategies do you think will become dominant as the game evolves?
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On April 21 2010 08:13 danl9rm wrote:
@Question:Let's be honest, even the "high level play" from current "high level players" is pretty low for the brand new game. Knowing this, isn't it only possible to balance the game from an early-rush perspective? How can late-game be confidently tweaked?
+1 for that, very intriguing.
@Question What is your stand on Protoss air? Gameplay-wise, do you think it's powerful enough (versus banshee/viking or muta harass)? And lore-wise, do you think the Protoss has the superior, technologically advanced air fleet it's supposed to have? What is your stance on the Mothership?
@Question How balanced is the game right now? Do you think it'll undergo major changes (fe. high ground advantage), or only minor tweaks (unit damage etc.)?
I'm saving some questions for the next cast :D.
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@Question For Protoss, compared with a Robo Facility to Robo Bay tech the Stargate to Fleet Beacon tech is almost just as fast. Can you contrast as to why the Fleet Beacon tech is seldom chosen and whether more people should go for it in a standard, say PVT, match?
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Question: Anyone think it would be better if they just went ahead and had Roach and Hydra switch tech places (adjusting stats accordingly)? Maybe make Roach's have a shorter range or melee (adjusting stats accordingly). This'll remove the need for the Maurader/Immortal to be such a specific hard counter. I just dislike the way the Roach and it's hard counter is set up. It's fine for better games, but it's boring for any level below pro. or maybe I'm just crazy.
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@Question what do you believe is the most underused unit(s) in sc2 right now. why do you think that is? will it change? is it situational to early/mid/late?
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@Question Is the intro song a whole song? I'd like to have that 
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@Question Where is episode 3?
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UPDATE: If anyone would be so kind to make us a graphic for these threads I would be much obliged! SO MUCH SO that I will give you a SC2 beta key that will work for both US and EU. If there are multiple submissions then we'll choose the best one. Not enough? We'll also talk about how amazing you are on the cast and I will also submit it to iTunes once I get art for it. Otherwise, I'll have to wait for my friend to get around to it 
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United States7166 Posts
@Question Please talk about your thoughts related to the high-ground issue, especially now with Blizzard's direct response being, "High ground mechanic: They like how it is now. According to Dustin Browder, it gives a clear advantage at first and then it eventually disappears." (from the Fansite Q&A). Personally this specific response was the most disappointing response I've heard from Blizzard for a long time, I really hope someone can get them to understand why it is an issue.
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@question i've currently been debating(my sparring partner is busy recently) on trying a stalker/sentry build with my toss. my only difference is i want a very early research of hallucinate involved, and using it as a meat shield/distraction heavily to throw the opponent off. ex- hallucinated collosus mineral harrass as i walk in the front door. how do you think this would pan out in game, and have you seen any tricky hallucinators yet?
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Post updated with show links.
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Germany767 Posts
Thanks for having me. haha still dont like my accent xD
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On April 24 2010 10:15 TheLittleOne wrote:
Thanks for having me. haha still dont like my accent xD
LOL, great job littleone. loved listening to the talk.
and dude, no way, accents are a plus.
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Downloading now! Glad i checked before going to work!!
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Great cast JP! Very entertaining stuff.
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downloading so i can listen to it in the bus today!
thx JP <3
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Thanks for all the nice comments and thanks to the community for so many questions on such short notice.
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can anyone link to the white-ra vs tlo games they talk about? been busy all week, so i missed it :/
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Is there a possibility for RSS feed or Itunes upload? I'm used to download podcasts via RSS into my HTC and listen while traveling.
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Another great episode 
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Enjoyed the cast, guys. Looking forward to the next one.
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And you should invite TLO every week!
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United States7166 Posts
what an awesome podcast. my only wish is that they were more often cus they are so good
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i want more JP, hope you will be a part of Starcraft 2 community from now on
great podcast
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Cheers for the putting my question up, even if u did cut it down a little . Thankful for the response ^^
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I really love hearing the discussion of the most recent balance changes. Thanks and can't wait for ep 4!
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Whoop Whoop listening to it now!
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+ Show Spoiler +All the talk about the Infested Terran ability spawned some ideas which I find pretty amusing a ideas. First idea was basically exactly the same as one of them said in the podcast, having Infestors spawn with a, unrecargeable (is this a word? ) Infested Terran count and then be able to spawn them for free. LIke three of them or something. Then when they talked about Dark Ranger from WC3, I evolved this idea so it could rather have a weak attack and if the unit they were attacking died and were biological, it would increase the count with like 1 with a maximum of like 2 or something (for this, they would spawn with no count and have to build it up and they would have to have separate ones for Protoss/Terran/Zerg). My second thought was to add it to Fungal Growth and have any biological unit killed while being afflicted by FG would keep living with no shield and like 50% maximum HP (and maybe attack) for like 5 seconds under the Zerg-players control. This idea I find very amusing, thou it would probably be VERY overpowered and something else would have to be nerfed with FG, like ability-cost.
edit: added spoiler
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Good cast again, thanks itmeJP.
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Ep 3 is really good. Can't wait for the latest king of hill match.
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Made a banner.. Looking for feedback
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Thanks very much InterWill. Key sent. Also thank you to the others that submitted.
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These podcasts keep getting better and better. I'm really enjoying them.
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Late game TvZ u guys should try some Ghosts in response to Infestors.
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Sweden33719 Posts
On April 25 2010 15:49 CowGoMoo wrote:
Late game TvZ u guys should try some Ghosts in response to Infestors.
Hm you might be right about that, will definitely give it a go. They might be quite useful in general once your have a solid eco Oo
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This was probably the most productive discussion yet. I feel like people are starting to speak more now from solid game experience, and not just theorizing. Also, Jinro's idea about tanks having vision equal to range on high ground was interesting
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I just listened to EP3 while on the train, really good stuff, enjoyed it a whole lot.
Excellent guests too, I was very happy about every single one of those guys.
Also made for an interesting dynamic with nony having a different view at some of the things the others agreed on.
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This was the best SoTG yet probably because the guests were all very knowledgeable.
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I liked Nony's thought about asymmetrical warfare, where not all races are supposed to be able to beat eachother with standard armies at every point given equal skill. It does seem counter-intuitive, but if one race has to fight to delay the superior race so his superior economy kicks in with harass or better defense abilities that isn't always bad.
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Great cast guys, keep up the good work
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Submitted to iTunes and got the rss feed setup. Will update when iTunes accepts it soon.
RSS Feed
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boner time at work tomorrow, thanks.
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Aren't there moments of silence for anyone else? Audio seems to drop for a couple of seconds here and there. Maybe it's because I'm listening to it in a browser or something. It's not buffering though because the bar has filled up and buffered to the end.
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Wow, i was quite late to catch this, but listened to it today to and from work. Really nice, can't wait for the next ep.
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Feedback
stop the skype messaging sounds, im listening to this on the computer so i keep checking skype kinda annoying
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On April 27 2010 06:48 Nuttyguy wrote:
Feedback
stop the skype messaging sounds, im listening to this on the computer so i keep checking skype kinda annoying
I had no idea that they were turned on. I'll turn them off for next episode. Sorry.
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really brightened my day at work, THANKS!
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I really enjoyed this podcast and looking forward to the next one.
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Please ready questions for our fourth episode! Louder, Assem, CauthonLuck should be the guests! Thanks.
Remember to use @Question so I can find them easier.
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@Question What are your opinions of corruptors. I've found them to be pretty much just a special form of flying larva that only morphs into broodlords. Am I underusing them? To me they pretty much suck as anti air, hydras are so much better, and even mutas are better anti air. What do you think about bringing back the old mechanic (that corruptors take control of other air units or whatever), or should they just be completely replaced.
@Question What about terran mech. Are you satisfied with its current state, or would you still like more changes. If so, what specific changes. I believe Jinro suggested making tanks less supply or cost slightly less gas. Would this solve mech problems?
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@Question Ultralisks: I personally feel that when I get to late game Hive transitions, I cant fit Ultralisks into my gameplan. I usually get Hive as soon as I think I'll be able to afford the 3/3 upgrades for my Hydra/Roach/Infestor army - the Broodlord transition just feels so much stronger. What are your thoughts on Ultralisks? Are we approaching them incorrectly? Do they need changes? If so, what kinds of changes would be good?
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Episode 4 semi delayed. Not sure when we'll record.
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On May 02 2010 04:59 itmeJP wrote:
Episode 4 semi delayed. Not sure when we'll record.
Thanks for the heads up, looking forward to it.
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@Question Given Blizzard has given up on negotiations with KeSPA, I have started to grow concerned regarding SC2s potential to become an eSport. Do you think that it is at all likely that KeSPA will adopt SC2 over BW, and/or do you think SC2 has any potential to start a major eSports scene outside of Korea? Are you concerned about the futures of both BW and SC2 as far as eSports go as I am?
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kind of related to the question above, but
@QuestionIs it possible that the lack of zerg army diversity and the lack of ultras in the late game is due to the fact that zerglings arent as effective in SC2? In broodwar, a group of zerglings with speed could raze an base, while crackings were the most terrifying unit in the game in large numbers, especially when paired with ultras. Would boositing the attack of the ling, and the effectiveness of the crack upgrade help the zerg army seem more diverse and fun?
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@Question for assem from FrOsTy: Assem you were a pro gamer for quite a while and were a huge part of the sc 1 community very early on, do you see yourself being interested in being a starcraft 2 pro gamer in Korea or wherever else a pro gaming scene might form. Will you continue to be a big part of the starcraft 2 community?
P.S. Never forget the early days of sc2 beta when FrOsTy owned Assem!
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Still working on recording this guys. So sorry for the inconsistency.
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Really looking forward to the new episode! keep it up!!
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These Podcasts are really great. Incredible long with very high level discussions.
JP and Sean make a great team. And the guests are awesome. Hoping for more podcasts in the future!
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The waiting! It hurts so much. TT
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Yeah, sorry everyone for a long wait. I'm graduating Saturday so trying to figure out when to get people together + focusing on Starcraft stuff is throwing me for a loop :<
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On May 07 2010 03:17 itmeJP wrote:
Yeah, sorry everyone for a long wait. I'm graduating Saturday so trying to figure out when to get people together + focusing on Starcraft stuff is throwing me for a loop :<
School > Sc2
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Question for anyone It seems to be very common for protoss to do a lot of heavy 1 base play with like 4 gate or 3 gate robo/stargate into colloxen all off one base against zerg on the American servers. Other regions don't seem to suffer as badly from this problem and games tend to evolve into the mid/late game. What do you think accounts for this difference in play style? Are we just not doing a good enough job microing against early toss aggression or is it simply that players choose to play more macro oriented styles in different parts of the world? (Sorry for the longish question)
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@question It doesnt look like blizzard wants to do any big changes to the game, and all the recent balance changes has been very minor. Do you think there are some big issues that still needs an overhaul, or do you think the game only need some small stats changes.
Also what do you think needs to be done for us to see any ultralisk in a high level game.
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Should delay the podcasta little more, at least until after your guests get a chance to play around with next patch a little bit (assuming there is a new patch). Still, looking forward to it:D
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Looking forward to a big episode from you guys now
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On May 07 2010 04:20 Pekkz wrote:
@question It doesnt look like blizzard wants to do any big changes to the game, and all the recent balance changes has been very minor. Do you think there are some big issues that still needs an overhaul, or do you think the game only need some small stats changes.
Also what do you think needs to be done for us to see any ultralisk in a high level game.
Lol, what now? Patch 11 is massive. Now I want SotG that much more, but I remember what school is like. I GUESS that's more important......maybe.
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Looks like we're going to record on Tuesday, perhaps before then if I get enough interest on Sunday afternoon from players. This'll give us some time to play around with the new patch as well as talk about the TL tournament on Saturday. Make sure to tune in tomorrow night for Fight Night with MLG
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So can we expect it today or will we need to wait until Tuesday? I really want to hear some thoughts on the most recent patch.
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On May 10 2010 00:08 im a roc wrote:
So can we expect it today or will we need to wait until Tuesday? I really want to hear some thoughts on the most recent patch.
Tuesday.
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Looking forward to this, will it be released in this thread, or will it have its own?
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I must have this tomorrow morning. Seriously brightens my day when i have a podcast to listen to on my way to and from work^^ Is it happening today?
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On May 11 2010 22:45 Chriamon wrote:
Looking forward to this, will it be released in this thread, or will it have its own?
New thread is up HERE
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EPT
