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Blizzard seems to want to emphasize the role air units play in this game, so that these guys would actually be used. However, I've noticed that protoss air is relatively unused, with the exception of a void ray cheese or trying to counter mutas with phoenixes.
The reason behind this I believe is simply our lack of a solid air to ground unit. Phoenixes can't really cut it with their ability, and void rays are only effective at fighting armored units. They are terrible at fighting pretty much everything that can hit air, with a small exception being stalkers, which they are 'okay' against.
Every other race has a unit that does good damage to every ground unit and is able to harass pretty effectively. (Banshees and mutas) and so we often see these units used. Once again, Protoss completely lacks a decent air to ground unit.
Any thoughts on whether something should be changed, or if Protoss should even follow suit with the other races?
Personally I feel like that's a significant edge/option that we're lacking, and would love to see something done about it.
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its true that they lack that, i mean carriers are great but they're way too late and expensive. But they don't really NEED something like the banshee or mutalisk. At the moment i'm more concerned with their lack of ground to air. Stalkers suck and need a buff....
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United States47024 Posts
I disagree about the need for a strong mid-game air-to-ground unit. For one, if you look at SC1, this was part of Protoss' identity. Your midgame options were the Scout and the Corsair, of which one couldn't attack ground, and the other was just plain bad.
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It isn't a good idea to change the protoss air options to more closely match those of terran and zerg. SC2's 3 races are already less differentiated as they are compared to SC1. That being said, the void ray does feel like a very lame unit.
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Void rays are their AtG unit. They are a good concept, and can be practical. If you want a Protoss Banshee, I suggest you switch to Terran. =)
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Protoss doesn't even have very good AtA... buff that and I'll be happy enough 
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I wouldn't say they 'need' a unit, but I don't see protoss air taking a dominant role in any builds until something is changed, and it just seems like a dead tech line to me.
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For the people who complain about GtA protoss try making sentries. Seriously... they are good.
Also, as for as AtG for protoss, they don't need it. Protoss already has so much ground control with colossi, immortals, zealots, theres just no need for another unit. Also, Carriers are REALLY strong. And why attack only ground when carriers can attack both and be awesome at it.
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Why would you need AtG units when you have Colossi, HT's and Immortals?
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I agree, and despite being a terran player I will make a concession in the spirit of balance.
Let's give Protoss back scouts from sc1!! 
I haven't played P much though, can someone tell me what uses void rays have? They don't seem to be used much at all.
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On March 26 2010 00:42 Jonoman92 wrote:I agree, and despite being a terran player I will make a concession in the spirit of balance. Let's give Protoss back scouts from sc1!! I haven't played P much though, can someone tell me what uses void rays have? They don't seem to be used much at all.
HQ sniping
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On March 26 2010 00:24 btlyger wrote:
For the people who complain about GtA protoss try making sentries. Seriously... they are good.
Also, as for as AtG for protoss, they don't need it. Protoss already has so much ground control with colossi, immortals, zealots, theres just no need for another unit. Also, Carriers are REALLY strong. And why attack only ground when carriers can attack both and be awesome at it.
sentries suck vs anything but mutas, and they are much slower, and just as expensive gas wise as mutas, the phoenix is a decent AtA unit, good in pvp, but generally horrid vs terran and zerg.
Phoenix main faults are you require equal numbers to take on mutas, even then it can be close, if you tech to counter mutas and invest in phoenix the zerg can easily switch tech and youre now stuck with just a harassing unit thats quite weak. It isnt effective vs armored units, and the void ray is laughably bad vs armored air.
Slight changes are needed, nothing too massive but something to give protoss decent AA.
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On March 25 2010 12:23 RoboFerret wrote:
Every other race has a unit that does good damage to every ground unit and is able to harass pretty effectively. (Banshees and mutas) and so we often see these units used. Once again, Protoss completely lacks a decent air to ground unit.
First, muta harass gets munched on by sentries/marines/hydras (All ground units)
Second, a good protoss can do great things opening with a phoenix harass (Snipe overlords/kill queen/create map control)
Third, watch all the zvp matches in the up coming tourny this saturday. I guarantee you'll see the strength of protoss air in at least one match.
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On March 26 2010 05:46 Perseverance wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2010 12:23 RoboFerret wrote:
Every other race has a unit that does good damage to every ground unit and is able to harass pretty effectively. (Banshees and mutas) and so we often see these units used. Once again, Protoss completely lacks a decent air to ground unit.
First, muta harass gets munched on by sentries/marines/hydras (All ground units) Second, a good protoss can do great things opening with a phoenix harass (Snipe overlords/kill queen/create map control) Third, watch all the zvp matches in the up coming tourny this saturday. I guarantee you'll see the strength of protoss air in at least one match.
Muta harass is very powerful regardless of you having an army that can counter it or not. It gets really bad when you have 2 bases and have to run back and fourth trying to attack the mutas, and if you decide to counter and attack you will most likely be losing some probes so your attack better do some damage or your in a bad situation.
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On March 26 2010 05:49 Whiplash wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2010 05:46 Perseverance wrote:On March 25 2010 12:23 RoboFerret wrote:
Every other race has a unit that does good damage to every ground unit and is able to harass pretty effectively. (Banshees and mutas) and so we often see these units used. Once again, Protoss completely lacks a decent air to ground unit.
First, muta harass gets munched on by sentries/marines/hydras (All ground units) Second, a good protoss can do great things opening with a phoenix harass (Snipe overlords/kill queen/create map control) Third, watch all the zvp matches in the up coming tourny this saturday. I guarantee you'll see the strength of protoss air in at least one match. Muta harass is very powerful regardless of you having an army that can counter it or not. It gets really bad when you have 2 bases and have to run back and fourth trying to attack the mutas, and if you decide to counter and attack you will most likely be losing some probes so your attack better do some damage or your in a bad situation.
as protoss your timing attack will completely destroy any zerg player if he has all his mutas at your base(s) trying to harass you.
as Terran you will just build a couple turrets and push out with MMM.
I am a semi high rated platinum zerg player and I rarely make mutas anymore because I usually end up losing from these exact scienario's.
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On March 25 2010 12:33 ccou wrote:
It isn't a good idea to change the protoss air options to more closely match those of terran and zerg. SC2's 3 races are already less differentiated as they are compared to SC1. That being said, the void ray does feel like a very lame unit.
The void ray should stay the same because of it's cheese application. With the gateway nerf toss doesn't really have a cheese strat like terran/zerg do without the void ray. It essentially adds more value for zvp scouting because with a standard zerg build vs toss quick rush voidrays can win you the game if they aren't expecting it.
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On March 26 2010 01:19 mistermetal wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2010 00:24 btlyger wrote:
For the people who complain about GtA protoss try making sentries. Seriously... they are good.
Also, as for as AtG for protoss, they don't need it. Protoss already has so much ground control with colossi, immortals, zealots, theres just no need for another unit. Also, Carriers are REALLY strong. And why attack only ground when carriers can attack both and be awesome at it. sentries suck vs anything but mutas, and they are much slower, and just as expensive gas wise as mutas, the phoenix is a decent AtA unit, good in pvp, but generally horrid vs terran and zerg. Phoenix main faults are you require equal numbers to take on mutas, even then it can be close, if you tech to counter mutas and invest in phoenix the zerg can easily switch tech and youre now stuck with just a harassing unit thats quite weak. It isnt effective vs armored units, and the void ray is laughably bad vs armored air. Slight changes are needed, nothing too massive but something to give protoss decent AA.
Senties are an awesome addition to any protoss army. The application for their abilities is enormous. Any non cheesing protoss will get some sentries in his army, at least in zvp.
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In sc1 protoss didnt need much for air units except shuttles and arbiters, why change that now?
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id prefer them to make terran and z air weaker instead of making toss air stronger :<
i dont know why many think mutas r good in tvz, they totally suck imo :p
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Is void ray a good unit? Does it have a purpose other than killing buildings?
That seems like a very niche use for something that occupies a unit slot..
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i hate the way mutas keep engaging my pheonixes. I mean, arent they supposed to be at least a little bit afraid of my fleet?
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On March 26 2010 06:26 UnderWorld_Dream wrote:
i hate the way mutas keep engaging my pheonixes. I mean, arent they supposed to be at least a little bit afraid of my fleet?
1:1 phoenix's are much better than muta's. If you plan on getting air vs zerg do it quickly though, try to snipe a few overlords while he's attempting to produce mutas so that it's much harder for him to outmass you. That plus your chrono boost should be more than enough to tip the scales heavily in your favor.
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Agree with OP. Pheonix is the only viable air unit and is pretty limited in its uses. The cost of Void rays is insanely huge.
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While I sometimes have issue with phoenixs ATA ability, I think their ATG attacks are fine. They rape workers, and do okay against ranged units like hydra in small numbers.
Their ground attacks are based in harrasment. Move to isolate a small group of units, disable them, and then uttterly destroy them.
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EPT
