EPTThat reaper idea is actually really good.
Blizzard misconception of the Widow Mine - Page 3
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gh0un
601 Posts
That reaper idea is actually really good. | ||
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Piousflea
United States259 Posts
Compared to 2 Banelings (100/50/1), a Widow mine (75/25/2): Deals 90 more damage vs Light (160 vs 70) Deals 120 more damage vs Armor (160 vs 40) Deals 25 more splash damage (60 vs 35) Can jump up to 5 range when burrowed. Can attack air. Cannot attack while unburrowed. If you think of Widows as being a super Baneling Bomb, it's a strong unit. However, I see Terrans on streams using it like Spider Mines. The cost is way too high to scatter all over land like a static defense, and that is what terran players frequently try to do. On the other hand, using the widow to move around your army, cover its flanks, and cover retreats and repositions, could be interesting. | ||
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Crawdad
614 Posts
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Maghetti
United States2429 Posts
On September 22 2012 07:31 Crawdad wrote: I will settle for 1 supply, anything less and it will be nerfed into the ground. But mines by their nature can be destroyed even 50 at a time with a simple scan and an A move. They have to be high in number and low/no supply or they are nothing more than a bane bomb that can hit air. | ||
ZeromuS
Canada13389 Posts
Kind of how Lings are 2 for 1 food, make 2 for 3 food. IDK might be worth playing with if the food cost is too high. But then you need 3 available supply to make them at all. I need to play with beta to really have opinion on this unit. | ||
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Crawdad
614 Posts
On September 22 2012 07:33 Maghetti wrote: But mines by their nature can be destroyed even 50 at a time with a simple scan and an A move. They have to be high in number and low/no supply or they are nothing more than a bane bomb that can hit air. Question, would these mines still be allowed to reposition themselves and manually target units? | ||
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Maghetti
United States2429 Posts
On September 22 2012 07:39 Crawdad wrote: Question, would these mines still be allowed to reposition themselves and manually target units? I don't know, depends on balance I guess. You could make it so it is hard to relocate some how or rework there attack vs air. They can do many things to make it work, but having it be 2 supply isn't one of those things. | ||
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Shiladie
Canada1631 Posts
On September 22 2012 00:13 Crawdad wrote: The Widow mine is perfect, don't even dare touching it. If you have to change it at all, tweak something negligible, but for the love of all that is holy, don't turn it into a damn spider mine. Why not? They're adding firebats in apparently, just calling them battle hellions and making them build from the factory. I'd be OK with the widow mine essentially being spider mines that cost supply | ||
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Decendos
Germany1338 Posts
make it NOT hit air and 1 supply so it is for zoning and not completely denying harrass with a single mine per base!!! | ||
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Crawdad
614 Posts
On September 22 2012 08:02 Maghetti wrote: I don't know, depends on balance I guess. You could make it so it is hard to relocate some how or rework there attack vs air. They can do many things to make it work, but having it be 2 supply isn't one of those things. Well, right now it is a unit that lends itself to a lot of micro, a lot of tense moments, and a lot of wow factor. I'm just afraid of it becoming boring. Another thing is that, the current Widow mine does a shitload of damage where it's at, but can't give you as good map coverage as spider mines could. Which is looked down upon, because a lot of Terrans have trouble with backstabs, but if it had better map coverage at the cost of being nerfed, I'm not sure how it could prevent backstabs, at least in TvP. Its purpose is not to deal some damage, its purpose is to kill units, and that would go doubly true if your mech army were out of position. | ||
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Zanno
United States1484 Posts
On September 22 2012 08:22 Decendos wrote: wtf. widow mine is WAY too strong now. remove the fucking "hits air ability" and make it 1 supply. its so stupid that 1 widow mine + 1 turret in mineral lines COMPLETELY shuts down mutaplay which is already weak in macro games. Z has to go in with lots of mutas to even kill the turret...but well...widow mine protects turret so no harrass possible with 200/25. thats just dumb as fuck. make it NOT hit air and 1 supply so it is for zoning and not completely denying harrass with a single mine per base!!! can mutas range widow mines if they can see them? because if they can't, that's likely the real thing that needs fixing | ||
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Decendos
Germany1338 Posts
On September 22 2012 08:37 Zanno wrote: can mutas range widow mines if they can see them? because if they can't, that's likely the real thing that needs fixing they cant. so 1 turret and 1 widow completly deny muta harrass. thats such a super super small investment once you saw zerg go muta that its actually retarded and will make the muta 100% useless in zvt which is REALLY REALLY sad since mutas are one of the only microintensive harrassing options zerg has. | ||
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ZeromuS
Canada13389 Posts
On September 22 2012 08:42 Decendos wrote: they cant. so 1 turret and 1 widow completly deny muta harrass. thats such a super super small investment once you saw zerg go muta that its actually retarded and will make the muta 100% useless in zvt which is REALLY REALLY sad since mutas are one of the only microintensive harrassing options zerg has. That seems absolutely crazy to me. Have you tested any amount of this in the beta? I wonder if you could use an overlord to take the mine hit then come in with mutas. It might just cause more action on the Zerg part for the harass to be effective and not completely shut it down. | ||
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
No, he isn't. That is his point of view, biased and useless as always. On September 22 2012 08:51 ZeromuS wrote: That seems absolutely crazy to me. Have you tested any amount of this in the beta? I wonder if you could use an overlord to take the mine hit then come in with mutas. It might just cause more action on the Zerg part for the harass to be effective and not completely shut it down. You can take them with the Overlords if Terran doesn't know that Mine can turn the auto-attack off, so he can just target fire your Mutas without targeting the Overlords... I was talking about issue since the Alpha, but people were just saying "no, you can go with Mutas 1 by 1, you can spread them, you can do many things...", while with these Mines, Muta harass is non-existent, as I was saying from the start. Not a single Zerg would trage a 100/100 unit for 75/25 unit, just to be able to kill few workers. And no even that, but that was before, now, 2 Mines can kill like 20 Mutas. Yeah, Turrets, Marines and Thors seem to not be enough. | ||
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Noahnao
United States11 Posts
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link0
United States1071 Posts
They just don't synergize with a mech army the way spider mines do. | ||
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Maghetti
United States2429 Posts
On September 22 2012 09:09 Noahnao wrote: Many people here have pointed out how strong the mine is and how it trades efficiently, but what problem does this address? Mech is immobile and is easily circumvented on larger maps. Mech cannot effectively lock areas down and is slow to respond to flank attacks. The two supply widow mine does not address this problem. This exactly. I make an assumption when i talk about the widow mine, and that assumption is that the purpose of the widow mine is to address the weakness in mech that is speed and map control. The unit is supposed to help mech handle drops, counter attacks, protect expansions, and protect flanks when out on the map. 2 supply widow mines, even really really strong and cost efficient widow mines do nothing for mech it needs done. | ||
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Crawdad
614 Posts
On September 22 2012 09:24 link0 wrote: Widow mines are actually ONLY useful for anti-air in base defense right now. They are too easy to waste on a hellion, roach, or some other bad trade when it comes to protecting against ground units. Why would you attack a single Hellion or Roach with a Widow mine? | ||
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Belisarius
Australia6231 Posts
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frantic.cactus
New Zealand164 Posts
On September 22 2012 11:12 Belisarius wrote: I really don't know why it needs to hit air. I feel like making it ground only and reducing its supply cost to compensate would pretty much do the trick. i believe the reason that Blizzard has given the WM this ability is to allow Terrans to open with factory based play yet still be relativly safe against Protoss air openings. In WoL when I meched I felt like I had to tech straight to starport to ensure I was safe from Voidrays. Now it is possible with good micro and positioning to fend off an air opening without being forced into an early starport. | ||
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