Bucks’ Giannis Antetokounmpo on Lakers’ Kobe Bryant: “He was my idol. Not just my idol, the whole generation’s idol. He was our Michael Jordan. He gave back to the game. A lot of people when they’re so great don’t do that. Talent is worthless if you don’t share it & he shared.”
If MJ is God, Kobe is Jesus, who came to Earth and showed the way.
On another note, let's say LBJ retires, would there be the same stories about him? I mean what skill would he even teach the young players? How to travel? Or maybe the HGH TRT stuff clutz and jc have been talking about... hmmnn...
On February 16 2020 06:48 JimmiC wrote: Lebron is a better bball player than Kobe ever was. And anything lbj might be on kobe would be as well.
Really? skill wise? impact wise? whats your argument here JC, id really like to hear it.
Everyway wise.
The easiest way to show is when kobe was on a bad team his team missed the playoffs and was really bad. When Lebron was on a bad team he would still make the playoffs.
I cant imagine a scenario when I would rather have kobe than lebron. LBJ is just a lot better, mpre efficient, better rebounder, better team player, more assists, can gaurd more positions because of size.
Kobe is not in the best player ever convo LBJ is. TBH I didn't know this was even an argument at this point. In what way is kobe better?
In every way JC. Also you miss the fact of East vs. West. Lebron had a cakewalk all his career in the east, while Kobe's was was a literal murderer's row each year.
Again, Kobe is better than Lebron in each and every way. He is a better athlete, better scorer, better footwork. As a scorer, MJ said it best, last possession and you have to win the game, youd fear for your life if Kobe had the ball, the same wtih MJ, because no matter the situation, Kobe had all the weapons to score against anyone, or any 3 defenders for that matter.
The only arguments for Lebron are even shady with context? Better passer? Better court vision? Of course he'd have better numbers in this category BECAUSE he was played at 1.
Now, I will bring up something that is often missed in these Lebron narratives, and let's call it the LBJ project. 2012-14, lebron realized the ghost of MJ is already out of reach, Kobe was ancient by then but was skill kicking his ass in terms of being the face of NBA. What does LBJ do? Hit the numbers. Thats when he became 1 and started to stack up on the stats. Coincidentally, this is something Riley was very much against, hence lbj bouncing out of Miami.
He and his group knew that he had enough skills and physique to get the numbers, which is why we have Nick Wrong all salivating over the 0.4 and 0.1 advantage he has over Jordan and Kobe.
This got longer than I want to, but let me conclude with these:
1. Switch Kobe in the east during 2 of lebron's stint, the Verajao and the Love+Kyrie era, what happens? Kobe all the way to the finals each and every year!!!
2. Switch Lebron and Kobe during Smush parker, farmer, etc, VS THE WILD WEST of Nash suns, TD spurs, Super Kings, Yao Rockets, etc, and lbj would get murdered round 1.
3. Seriously,watch Kobe highlights vs. lbj highlights, all the footwork, shimmy, dribbling, separation moves, dunks, etc. can you honestly still say that Lebron is even on Kobe's level of athleticism? Honestly?
4. TD, Tmac, Hill, and all his contemporaries all feared Kobe, while Durant, Leonard, Curry, all cant wait to clown lebron on the court.
5. Dont be Nick wrong JC, when Wrong says lebron is much better at rebounding and passing, he doesnt mention that its by 0.1 or 0.2 over 17 seasons! Of course hed have total accumulated vs MJ and KObe who only played 12 and 16 full seasons respectively.
Lebron is one of the greatest, but he is nowhere near Kobe's or MJs level. If he wins two in LA, then hed already passed Kobe. MJs career is so fairy tale perfect that I cant seriously imagine a realistic scenario that Lebron overtakes him, especially his east cakewalk and 2011 performance. Maybe Win 2 in LA and go to NY and win another 1? Idk, but MJ is astronomically so ahead of him that its not even worth thinking about now.
Finally, Lebron's true greatness is his group and the NBA machine, in exactly the same way MJ benefitted from it in his time. NBA needed him and he was he was ready and willing. That's all there is to it JC.
On February 16 2020 06:48 JimmiC wrote: Lebron is a better bball player than Kobe ever was. And anything lbj might be on kobe would be as well.
Really? skill wise? impact wise? whats your argument here JC, id really like to hear it.
Everyway wise.
The easiest way to show is when kobe was on a bad team his team missed the playoffs and was really bad. When Lebron was on a bad team he would still make the playoffs.
Because Kobe played in the west and Lebron played in the East.
Are you serious? Why do so many Lebron stans REFUSE to acknowledge this?!
Look at the Western Conference over the last 20 years! LOOK AT IT! Go look up how many 50 and 60 win teams Kobe had to beat to win his titles. I can't even begin to list how many Hall of Famers and future Hall of Famers were in Kobe's conference while he was there.
Lebron NEVER had a rival like the San Antonio Spurs were to the Lakers. You can sort of argue the Celtics were his last big rivals. He only won HIS titles when his Heat team was MILES better than anything else in the East and even then BARELY. Except his Cleveland championship. That was hands down the most impressive feat of his career.
Every single Lebron playoff stat is inflated because he played in the weakest Eastern Conference in decades. It's the reverse for Kobe.
It's not a coincidence that the first season Lebron played in the West, he missed the playoffs. I can almost guarantee you that same Lakers team would have been playoff bound in the East.
Some Kobe arguments are fine, but better athlete than LeBron? Come on. LeBron's the best athlete in the NBA since 2003 at least until Giannis hit his prime.
The knock on LeBron is that there are hundreds of players who would have done more with his near-perfect NBA body, and that I think is very true.
On February 16 2020 15:02 cLutZ wrote: Some Kobe arguments are fine, but better athlete than LeBron? Come on. LeBron's the best athlete in the NBA since 2003 at least until Giannis hit his prime.
The knock on LeBron is that there are hundreds of players who would have done more with his near-perfect NBA body, and that I think is very true.
Define "athlete" as a metrics in comparing Kobe vs. Lebron.
Edit: I'll preempt you clutZ. In terms of being a physiological specimen? Hell yeah no doubt. 230+ pound of pure muscle that can jump way higher and run way faster than what other athletes of the same body type.
But as an athlete who can manipulate his body with finesse, agility, strength, and speed? Lebron is way way below Kobe's level. EXHIBIT 1-99999: footwork, dunk variety, layup variety, post game variety, ability to space off dribble, ability to drive not by steamrolling but by dribble, footwork, and cunning, the list goes on. God damn are people really blind in saying Lebron is better athletically than Kobe?!!! Just look at lebrons stepback 3. Dude looks like a clanky backhow trying to shoot the ball. And, as a bonus, may I bring to your attention the few times lebron tied footing the ball after seeing Nash and, of all people, Vujacic iirc, and in one instance hit the ball with his outstep, and in another clowned himself by failing to even hit the ball. Now watch Kobe football skills. Do it.
Lebron checks ONE box in the athleticism department - strenght, and maybe avoiding injuries/conditioning (wink wink), but all the other- grace, finesse, body control, NAH!
Also, FUCK YOU DWANE WADE. DIRTY AS A PLAYER, DIRTY AS A JUDGE. MOTHERFUCKER SINGLE HANDEDLY RUIN WHAT WOULD HAVE BEEN AN EPIC DUNK CONTEST!
Also also, I feel bad for DB. He seems like such a charming guy. I hope he gets out of the suns and achieves his superstar potential.
@Vindicare605, AMEN. The fact that they avoid this settles the discussion on the hurr durr 100 straight finals.
Once you factor in HGH and Steroid use and abuse its pretty tough to determine who the GOAT is in basketball. It can't even be determined who the greatest baseball hitter of all time is. Hitting stats provide 1000X clearer evidence of proficiency as a hitter than any basketball metrics or stats do for NBA-ers.
HGH , Steroids and even surgical procedures create an uneven playing field.
So you're admitting that your quote "Easiest way" is a bunch of bologna right?
Look, if people want to argue team ball vs iso ball that's a SUBJECTIVE way to judge the two players since both of them are products of their respective eras.
Also, i find it hard to believe that Kobe was half the ball hog his detractors make him out to be when he has the Lakers assist record (Over Magic Johnson just btw).
The "record number of playoff appearances, and 8 straight finals appearances" argument for Lebron is the one thing that bothers the hell out of me, that is a product of the weakest conference in decades. Seeing this argument come up and then no mention of the East vs West disparity that in every other conversation was EVERYWHERE, just feels like a bunch of misleading nonsense.
Lebron's a great player, he plays for my team now too. He doesn't need these kind of misleading and half true arguments to support his case.
On February 17 2020 06:12 Vindicare605 wrote: I never said Kobe was a top 2 player. I just don't believe Lebron is either.
Top 2 for me is MJ and Kareem. Neither Kobe nor Lebron have had careers that can touch either of them.
True. Which means, for me and I think many others, since we cannot objectively discuss Kareem and his generation and those before him because we didnt see them play, we could limit it to modern era, i.e, Jordan and beyond. Which again, makes the top 3 Jordan, Kobe, Lebron... btw, would there be any argument for #3 other than lbj? Duncan? Shaq?
EPT![[image loading]](https://s3media.247sports.com/Uploads/Assets/737/233/9233737.jpg?fit=bounds&crop=1200:630,offset-y0.50&width=1200&height=630)
