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NBA General Discussion - Page 14

Forum Index > Sports
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Twinkle Toes
Profile Joined May 2012
United States3605 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-01-30 02:49:21
January 30 2020 02:30 GMT
#261
[image loading]
Bisu - INnoVation - Dark - Rogue - Stats
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-01-30 05:30:15
January 30 2020 05:26 GMT
#262
On January 30 2020 11:29 Twinkle Toes wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 30 2020 05:49 cLutZ wrote:
On January 29 2020 21:28 Twinkle Toes wrote:
On January 29 2020 15:53 cLutZ wrote:
On January 29 2020 14:43 redlightdistrict wrote:
On January 28 2020 14:54 cLutZ wrote:
On January 28 2020 12:07 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
really tall males not only change more during their growth spurt ... their growth spurt is usually longer affording the possibility of over 35 centimeters of growth

perhaps all that growing really tall people go through from 14 to 17 cancels out any precise co-ordination and physical athletic instincts they built before puberty.

https://www.essentialparent.com/lesson/why-is-my-teenager-so-clumsy-2371/

Also, perhaps soccer players are better equipped to transition to other sports. In Major League Baseball... the first wave of Dominican Republic baseball players in the late 70s and early 80s ... a lot of them were converted soccer players.


Those points (growth spurts and soccer cross training) might be partially true, but it can't be even close to 50% of the story. I just think back to my hometown wrestling/football teams. Both sports have pretty good youth programs, and there is some overlap, but not a lot. But then you get to high school, over my 4 years there were like 5 life-long wrestlers that had big growth spurts. They all became maulers for the football team. One was 2x all state (a smaller division, but still impressive) at running back, and the rest were really good O/D linemen.

Every year there were plenty of football players on the wrestling team, they universally stunk (aside from those who had also been lifelong wrestlers). Even the super athletic ones just couldn't pick up the actual wrestling skills.

Either these big guy sports just have really bad youth systems, so they don't really teach skills of value early (also that may be impossible for some reason or another), or they are deceptively low skill sports at the high end. I think its probably a little of both. Little kid football/basketball games always look ridiculous with the balls being too big, the field too big, the hoops too big, etc. You're more likely to pick up bad habits than good ones. Also, any sport that sets the bar so high for size and athleticism is going to not be as much about smarts and skill. Talent just becomes more and more overwhelming.

Edit:

I also think this is kinda why the WNBA is going to fail long term. First, I think its dumb to just try to force a sport. They really need to start at the bottom and build up so they can feel out the fans. Maybe there is a WNBA fanbase that would like something, but you need to barnstorm to find out what that fanbase would be. But also, because its such a genetic test sport, you are going to have no real facet where the women's game feels more interesting unless you tailor the rules towards women (and frankly basketball is one of the most anti-woman sports).

Basketball is the worst sport women can play, anatomically speaking. Women have much wider Pelvis then men, which leads them to being over 20x more likley to get ankle, knees, and hip injuries because their legs have a more interior curviture, forcing the legs to bend at an awkward angle. Basketball courts having little to no give hardwood floors exasperates problem even more so. In Soccer, Tennis, and Volley ball, girls can play on grass, sand, and clay that doesn't completely destroy their ligaments.


Plus their shorter ACLs mean its basically an ACL graveyard. 3 of the top 20 seniors in the class of 2020 tore their ACL this year.

Honest question, lets say you are an average fan of the NBA, what would motivate you to watch WNBA?


A far different rule set that made its own visually appealing game. Find ways to make height much less influential, experiment with other modifications that would make strength less impactful, etc.

Re: height, is it really difficult to lower women's ring height? I know the logistical implications nationwide, since courts all over the country would have to accommodate the new women's standards. But we are fighting with physics. Women's physio, morphology, etc. are different from men.

ReL strength, any ideas? I don;t know how this could be done


Ironically(?) The reason basketball has dribbling is because Naismith thought football and rugby were too brutal, he would abhor the game of a player like Lebron or Harden. One thing that could help the women's game is enforcing 1950s era dribbling rules.

I don't think lowering the nets would substantially alleviate height concerns, a lot of the game's fundamentals just make being freakishly tall a good thing. But that is what barnstorming is for! That's what unscripted college scrimmages run by a volunteer coach is for. That is how you build a sport.

People act like the WNBA should just emulate women's soccer and that will make everything work. Well, #1 women's soccer also is failing, the only thing that maintains interest in the US is that people enjoy patriotism and winning, and the team wins. If they ever suck for 2 world cups in a row, bye bye interest. #2 The MOST IMPORTANT MOMENT in women's soccer history is a pretty good looking lady showing the world her bra.
Freeeeeeedom
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada17477 Posts
January 30 2020 06:16 GMT
#263
at the very top level women's hockey is more entertaining than men's hockey.

and speaking of women playing sports...
https://streamable.com/h3tjv

revised Salary Cap projections to be revealed.
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/28596920/sources-nba-set-release-revised-2020-21-salary-luxury-tax-projections

Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
GTR
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
51586 Posts
January 30 2020 07:15 GMT
#264


you can tell this came from the heart, ouch.
Commentator
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada17477 Posts
January 30 2020 08:07 GMT
#265
A Washington Post reporter was suspended for bringing up Bryant's 2003 rape accusation along with Bryant's acknowledgements of the woman's perspective of the incident. 36 hours later the Washington Post reversed their decision and re-instated the reporter.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/29/opinion/sonmez-kobe-washington-post.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
January 30 2020 14:03 GMT
#266
--- Nuked ---
redlightdistrict
Profile Joined October 2018
382 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-01-30 16:34:18
January 30 2020 16:34 GMT
#267
On January 30 2020 23:03 JimmiC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 30 2020 15:16 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
at the very top level women's hockey is more entertaining than men's hockey.

and speaking of women playing sports...
https://streamable.com/h3tjv

revised Salary Cap projections to be revealed.
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/28596920/sources-nba-set-release-revised-2020-21-salary-luxury-tax-projections


No it is not, and maybe 1% would agree with you.

Hockey is 1000% more exciting watching it in person imo. I rather watch basketball/football on tv
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada17477 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-01-30 17:27:24
January 30 2020 17:20 GMT
#268
i pretty much agree with Gretzky's criticisms of the modern game. Participation in hockey in Canada is way down... and it deserves to be.

Where the caretakers of basketball, at the top of FIBA and the NBA, have succeeded brilliantly ... the caretakers of hockey have failed. The caretakers of baseball are now starting to struggle with managing their game through the 21st century as well.

The NBA, Stern et al did such an amazing job that to some they made it look easy. Many of their decisions appear obvious in retrospect. That said, going from financial peril to multi-billion dollar giant requires lots of geniuses and lots of very hard work at many different management levels including the front lines.

In 1985, had someone said tthat in the future he NBA stood a chance of having higher revenues than MLB you would've been called crazy.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
January 30 2020 17:26 GMT
#269
--- Nuked ---
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada17477 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-01-30 17:37:43
January 30 2020 17:29 GMT
#270
The men are too big for the ice and the male goalies with all that very expensive equipment on that no normal family could ever afford ... are way too big for the net. This issue should've been dealt with in 2000.

Recent USA Women v. Canadian Women world title game.. Score... 7-5. USA takes a 2-0 lead. Canada comes back to make it 2-2. USA scores 3 straight..5-2. Canada comes back to make it 5-5. Game ends 7-5. This was a great game reminiscent of the incredible Soviet Union//Team Canada games. Those kind of games no longer exist in the men's game at the top level of play.

The NHL needed to evolve its ruleset the way the NBA evolved its rule set. This is not an easy job. The NBA did an absolutely brilliant job evolving the game's rules. The NHL failed miserably.

The NBA has earned and deserved all of its current success. The game of hockey is struggling.. and deservedly so.

And now, MLB/Baseball is starting to go downhill as well. This shows just how difficult to succeed it is. It shows you how great a job the NBA is doing.

We're in the golden age of basketball. Enjoy the games! That Celtics/Heat game was fucking awesome. Enjoy it while you can. There is no guarantee this great level of play and entertainment will be around forever.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
January 30 2020 17:39 GMT
#271
--- Nuked ---
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada17477 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-01-30 18:08:12
January 30 2020 17:45 GMT
#272
Participation in hockey in canada being way down has nothing to do with TL.

Anyhow, I say that the NBA has grown much more than MLB and NHL because they've done a far better job evolving the ruleset than MLB and NHL.

Here are my criticisms for MLB.
https://tl.net/forum/sports/482317-major-league-baseball-2015?page=11#201

I spend almost no time watching MLB any longer. My decrease in MLB viewing has nothing to do with TL. The game is boring. I think the NBA will eclipse the MLB in revenue within 10 years. To the victor goes the spoils.

As good as the NBA is , it is not perfect. A "Sell The Team" chant broke out at the Knicks game last night. James Dolan singled out 1 , single fan to be ejected by security of changing "Sell The Team".

https://nypost.com/2020/01/29/knicks-chaos-melee-breaks-out-in-loss-fans-plead-james-dolan-to-sell-team/?utm_source=twitter_sitebuttons&utm_medium=site buttons&utm_campaign=site buttons

At 935-1032 the Toronto Raptors career franchise winning percentage will be close to equal to the 2791-2979 New York Knicks franchise winning percentage by the end of this year. Had anyone predicted this 10 years ago they would've been labelled a crazy person.
On January 31 2020 02:39 JimmiC wrote:
this extremely nonsensical and logical fallacy filled discussion here where you try to prove that Women's hockey is better than men's with things like the NBA being more popular or the equipment being being too expensive. None of it makes a lick of sense.

i did not say the women's hockey is better than men's hockey. you are misquoting me. the thread veered into a discussion about women's sports in general and i added my $0.02 about 1 specific aspect of 1 women's sport.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
andrewlt
Profile Joined August 2009
United States7702 Posts
January 30 2020 18:15 GMT
#273
On January 29 2020 11:35 cLutZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 29 2020 03:59 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
On January 28 2020 14:54 cLutZ wrote:
Every year there were plenty of football players on the wrestling team, they universally stunk (aside from those who had also been lifelong wrestlers). Even the super athletic ones just couldn't pick up the actual wrestling skills.

ah, that is interesting.

i went to an academically oriented typical Canadian high school where the best athletes avoid tackle football. Wrestling had almost zero popularity. They played everything else except tackle football.

The best 2 athletes in my high school seemed to pick up and excel at almost any sport except for tackle football due to size requirements. They were even really good at stuff like snooker and curling.

My father was one of 9 kids and my mother was one of 3. I've got over 20 cousins. The best athlete in my family can excel at any sport or any physical activity. I think that is typical.

The 1 thing i`ve found that has a chance to stump even the most gifted of athletes is hitting a baseball. It can be the great equalizer.


Yea, baseball is a classic stumper for some great athletes. It also depends on the size of your school and what defines "being good". Like some of the football players I considered bad at wrestling could be like 30-10 and win conference at a D-3 (small school), but they still would lose match to me (and I consider myself only pretty good) even with a 30, 40, 50 lb advantage.


ESPN once did research on athletic skills across different sports. They found out that it is impossible for baseball players to react fast enough to pitches. The top players instead guess where the ball is going to go based on how the pitchers’ arms move. It is something they subconsciously do based on thousands of hours of experience. It is also why they can’t hit softball pitches. The rule differences just throw off all that experience.

Basketball just doesn’t seem to have anything like that. Even shooting can be learned more easily. So many NBA players don’t learn how to shoot properly in college and end up great shooters down the road in the NBA. Seems fairly routine for many players to up their free throw shooting by 10% in the pros, for example.
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
January 30 2020 18:21 GMT
#274
--- Nuked ---
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada17477 Posts
January 30 2020 18:25 GMT
#275
Our eyes and brain can track fast moving objects with every human having a very specific upper limit of velocity. People with the potential to become baseball hitters have a very high upper limit.

In baseball people hit that hard ceiling and can never develop beyond that. No practicing will ever help you. In basketball ... almost anyone can develop a decent 12 foot jump shot if they are willing to put in the time.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
KelianQatar
Profile Joined December 2012
303 Posts
January 30 2020 18:52 GMT
#276
On January 30 2020 02:52 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
Jimmy Butler is shooting under 10% from 3 since December 18. He is also taking less 3s.

Is he playing through an injury?


Butler had surgery on his shooting wrist 2 years ago. He has re- injured it a few times since. He's also been dealing with knee and ankle issues.... Remember, he was removed early from a game last week due to a knee issue.

I'm a little confused by your post, but if you mean Butler is shooting 10% less from the 3 point line than he has in the past, I agree. I think he is playing through an injury.
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada17477 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-01-30 19:10:00
January 30 2020 19:01 GMT
#277
He is shooting 9% from 3 point range. He is taking about half as many 3 point shots in a game as he normally does.
On January 31 2020 03:15 andrewlt wrote:
The top players instead guess where the ball is going to go based on how the pitchers’ arms move.

ya,Sometimes they guess. Also, there is a lot of sign stealing in baseball so the hitter knows what is coming before the ball is thrown. Other times the pitcher or catcher or infielders will telegraph what pitch is coming.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-01-30 19:29:51
January 30 2020 19:28 GMT
#278
--- Nuked ---
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada17477 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-01-30 20:29:02
January 30 2020 20:18 GMT
#279
Many were expecting NBA revenues to decline causing a salary cap decline. Turns out that is not what is going on. Even with all that is going on with China ... revenue is up and the salary cap is projected to increase.

Woj

The Raptors , once again, have a long list of injuries.

Blake Murphy

Gasol, Hollis-Jefferson out. Hernandez out Mccaw questionable. No mention of OG's shoulder.

At this point I'd say Rondae Hollis-Jefferson has resurrected a career that was on life support in the ICU. The effort and attention to detail he puts into every play has made him an important bench player for the Raptors. Until this year I don't think I'd ever seen him put forth even 1/3 the level of effort he has this year. He is going to get another NBA contract from someone at the end of this year. Good for him... he earned it.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
Twinkle Toes
Profile Joined May 2012
United States3605 Posts
January 30 2020 23:46 GMT
#280
On January 31 2020 03:15 andrewlt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 29 2020 11:35 cLutZ wrote:
On January 29 2020 03:59 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
On January 28 2020 14:54 cLutZ wrote:
Every year there were plenty of football players on the wrestling team, they universally stunk (aside from those who had also been lifelong wrestlers). Even the super athletic ones just couldn't pick up the actual wrestling skills.

ah, that is interesting.

i went to an academically oriented typical Canadian high school where the best athletes avoid tackle football. Wrestling had almost zero popularity. They played everything else except tackle football.

The best 2 athletes in my high school seemed to pick up and excel at almost any sport except for tackle football due to size requirements. They were even really good at stuff like snooker and curling.

My father was one of 9 kids and my mother was one of 3. I've got over 20 cousins. The best athlete in my family can excel at any sport or any physical activity. I think that is typical.

The 1 thing i`ve found that has a chance to stump even the most gifted of athletes is hitting a baseball. It can be the great equalizer.


Yea, baseball is a classic stumper for some great athletes. It also depends on the size of your school and what defines "being good". Like some of the football players I considered bad at wrestling could be like 30-10 and win conference at a D-3 (small school), but they still would lose match to me (and I consider myself only pretty good) even with a 30, 40, 50 lb advantage.


ESPN once did research on athletic skills across different sports. They found out that it is impossible for baseball players to react fast enough to pitches. The top players instead guess where the ball is going to go based on how the pitchers’ arms move. It is something they subconsciously do based on thousands of hours of experience. It is also why they can’t hit softball pitches. The rule differences just throw off all that experience.

Basketball just doesn’t seem to have anything like that. Even shooting can be learned more easily. So many NBA players don’t learn how to shoot properly in college and end up great shooters down the road in the NBA. Seems fairly routine for many players to up their free throw shooting by 10% in the pros, for example.

Interesting
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