About Leetgion Leetgion is a new company getting its start in 2010 originating from its parent company Thermalright: a leading CPU cooler company. Their goal is now set on expanding its support for the PC gaming community to peripherals. They are enthusiastic about stepping into the Esports realm and supporting Starcraft 2 to the fullest, and they will be providing Iron Lady with support for the next upcoming tournament. Full information on it can be found at the Leetgion sub section at: leetgion.ironladygaming.com
Leetion Facebook Raffle Winners! Live Stream Raffle Winners Andrew Choposted Kayla Koplimäe-Smith + Show Spoiler +
It is time for our biggest tournament yet! Some of the best female gamers in the scene will come together once again to determine who has been rising up the ranks, and who still needs more work. The prize pool has doubled thanks to our sponsors, and now the ladies will be competing for a total of $350 in cash prizes along with hardware provided by Leetgion. Think you have what it takes to dethrone our past champions? Sign up and prove it to the world!
Date Tournament is set for April 28th and will begin at 1:00 PM Eastern Standard Time (EST) 10:00 AM Pacific Standard Time (PST) 7:00 PM Central European Time (CEST)
Information: You will register an account at National ESL; enter your game account, and proceed to click sign up on the cup. After that you will be contacted by email, and you will be provided with the option to join a Ventrilo server or communicate on Skype. During the verification process you may be asked several Starcraft 2 related questions in attempt to prove your understanding of the game as a real female player. Any suspicion of faking will prevent you from being accepted into the cup. Please, no trolls!
Tournament is a Best of 1 for the Round of 32 Winners and Losers and Best of 3 for the Round of 16 and up for Winners and Losers.
Best of 1: Each player eliminates 4 maps from the map pool they do not want to play on. The player with the higher seed goes first and then player 2 goes next, alternating until you each have picked 4 maps. The last map remaining will be the map you play on.
Best of 3 - All Rounds: Each player eliminates 3 maps from the map pool. Player with the highest seed starts first. Of the 3 maps remaining, player with higher seed picks Map 1 for the series, then player 2 picks Map 2 for the series. The map remaining will be the 3rd Ace Map of the series.
Leetgion Hellion Facebook Raffle We want to give everyone an opportunity to get their hands on Leetgion's feature product: the Hellion Gaming Mouse created just for Stacraft 2!. To do that, we have created a Facebook raffle contest! This mouse is currently only available for purchase in Taiwan, so be one of the first to own it for free anywhere in the world!
View the Hellion Gaming Mouse!
(click to enlarge the photos!)
We are giving away a total of 5 Hellion Gaming Mice to 5 random lucky winners. To be entered into the drawing the rules are simple:
That is all there is to it to be entered into the drawing. The winners will be announced live on National ESL TV during the Iron Lady Leetgion Tournament April 28th! This raffle supports us and Leetgion in a big way, so be sure to enter! Contest Rules + Show Spoiler +
• Open to all participants (males and females!) above 13 years of age, and open to all countries and regions. • From announcement date, contestants will have until April 27th 2012 11:59 PM Eastern Standard Time to enter the contest. • You must follow both Leetgion's and Iron Lady's facebook page to be eligible to win. • Five winners will be picked at random to receive 1 Hellion Gaming Mouse a piece. • After each contest winner is announced live on National ESL TV, each will be contacted by Lea-Min prompted with instructions on how to receive their prize. • Each contest winner will have a total of 14 days to respond to the message with the correct information to receive their prize • Failure to do this will result in another winner being selected at random.
On April 12 2012 09:44 Rombur wrote: Flo got this!
I don't know... Twice before, she's lost 0-2 to ComfyBed in the very first round and got eliminated from the tournament. I hope she gets down some serious training with Quantic.AlarmClock to handle the early pressure and proceed to the playoffs this time.
I'm still rooting for flo, though. Third time's a charm, eh?
On April 12 2012 09:44 Rombur wrote: Flo got this!
I don't know... Twice before, she's lost 0-2 to ComfyBed in the very first round and got eliminated from the tournament. I hope she gets down some serious training with Quantic.AlarmClock to handle the early pressure and proceed to the playoffs this time.
I'm still rooting for flo, though. Third time's a charm, eh?
Lol well to be fair to flo, the first time she overslept, the 2nd time she was sick. So hopefully she will be healthy and gets some good night's rest this time around. She is long over due for a good placement in Iron Lady!
We have never had an issue with transgendered girls competing, Scarlett isn't the first nor wasn't the last transgendered girl to compete in Iron Lady.
They add DaSakura without asking her if she wants to play in this, LoL I know she can't play it since we going to a local lan that weekend. anyway, glhf
On April 18 2012 10:18 AlexCMoi wrote: They add DaSakura without asking her if she wants to play in this, LoL I know she can't play it since we going to a local lan that weekend. anyway, glhf
Huh? We don't register players. They have to do it themselves. I actually assumed DaSakura inactive for a while until I saw she signed up. So either someone has access to her account or she registered for this event thinking she could play. She even posted in this thread and mentioned nothing about being fraudulently signed up o.O
Would be redonkulus (I think that should be a word) if they don't get scarlett in this. Yes scarlett is a girl, but now she is too good to play with the other girls?
Don't make a joke of yourselfs ladys, also, wanna see scarlett in a tourney again^^.
On April 18 2012 10:18 AlexCMoi wrote: They add DaSakura without asking her if she wants to play in this, LoL I know she can't play it since we going to a local lan that weekend. anyway, glhf
Huh? We don't register players. They have to do it themselves. I actually assumed DaSakura inactive for a while until I saw she signed up. So either someone has access to her account or she registered for this event thinking she could play. She even posted in this thread and mentioned nothing about being fraudulently signed up o.O
Yeah that's true, She did register a while ago, before she knew there was a lan and stuff, just saying you shouldn't put her 'featured' before ur sure she can play since she said she cannot unregister on the website.
On April 18 2012 10:18 AlexCMoi wrote: They add DaSakura without asking her if she wants to play in this, LoL I know she can't play it since we going to a local lan that weekend. anyway, glhf
Huh? We don't register players. They have to do it themselves. I actually assumed DaSakura inactive for a while until I saw she signed up. So either someone has access to her account or she registered for this event thinking she could play. She even posted in this thread and mentioned nothing about being fraudulently signed up o.O
Yeah that's true, She did register a while ago, before she knew there was a lan and stuff, just saying you shouldn't put her 'featured' before ur sure she can play since she said she cannot unregister on the website.
Ah ok I see. As far as featured goes though, if we went by that rule set then we technically couldn't feature anyone xD. At any time a girl can pull out of the event or just not show up. We just assume that if a girl registers, thats her stating she is sure she can play. She can request to be removed though.
On April 15 2012 20:38 KroN wrote: if scarlett is in, the others can go home >_>
not sure, but dunno if the requirement need participants to be genuinely female or not.
Wow, you're a total piece of shit.
Why? He's only stating the truth.
Really? Because everything he suggested was false.
He suggested one thing, which was the real possibility that an event tailored to females does not allow transgendered people. People are so desperate to seem politically correct to the point of calling someone a total piece of shit. You aren't improving the community by acting like the it's full of transgender-hating pieces of shit and you have to desperately protect Scarlett's honor. You're acting like a child defending his idol unnecessarily.
DaSakura isn't beating Scarlett anyways so it's ok if she withdraws to play another LAN. Aphrodite is the only one who might beat Scarlett out of this group.
On April 15 2012 20:38 KroN wrote: if scarlett is in, the others can go home >_>
not sure, but dunno if the requirement need participants to be genuinely female or not.
Wow, you're a total piece of shit.
Why? He's only stating the truth.
Really? Because everything he suggested was false.
He suggested one thing, which was the real possibility that an event tailored to females does not allow transgendered people. People are so desperate to seem politically correct to the point of calling someone a total piece of shit. You aren't improving the community by acting like the it's full of transgender-hating pieces of shit and you have to desperate protect Scarlett's honor. You're acting like a child defending his idol unnecessarily.
You want to make this about being politically correct?
Because it's not. It's about random pieces of shit going to every single thread mildly connected to Scarlett and making a thinly veiled (or sometimes blatant) comment about her being "a guy".
It would be equally pathetic if every thread tangentially related to InControl or Cruncher had the same jackasses making fat jokes.
EDIT: There also is no "real possibility". Anyone who could put in half the effort to check out anything related to IronLady would see that Scarlett has played in the tournaments before.
On April 18 2012 11:35 Arterial wrote: In the OP's picture of the featured players, Flo looks like the only serious player there picture-wise. The rest look like "pretty girls" lol.
Dude, have you seen the EG Master's Cup pictures? You've got guys that submitted a picture of them with their girlfriends.
"With the prize pool doubled, all the champions are gathering again to meet for an epic showdown. But they all have their challenges; waking up in the morning or staying up at night. Will they make it? Meanwhile it turns out that two-time champion Scarlett has been transgendered all along! She also recently got a marriage proposal from MorroW. Will she accept and will the wedding clash with the Championship? Also, top medalist DaSakura signed up for a comeback and a chance to defend the throne from the ever-increasing threat of AuRora, but her boyfriend had planned for her to go to a LAN and he just found out on the net! So who signed up DaSakura and what are her plans? What are his plans? And what are their true motives? Tune in next week for another exciting episode of The Iron Ladies"
Our last featured player (if it wasn't already obvious) is the new queen zerg herself EC.Scarlett
Edit: For any girl trying to sign up, ESL website is currently down and has been since yesterday, it should be back up by 22:00 CET today. Keep your fingers crossed!
On April 19 2012 04:36 ToF wrote: Maybe Aphrodite can get ST Miss to sign up?
Aphrodite does not actually know MisS the last time I checked. Understandable as she is korean and MisS is Chinese. The tournament is also at a horrible time for Asia in general so I doubt she would participate. Aphrodite is just a soldier thats why she still plays :D
On April 19 2012 04:44 rave[wcr] wrote: i hope none of the star players oversleep again...
Heh without a doubt I'm sure one of the participants will over sleep. Maybe I should start a poll asking people which player will most likely oversleep the event xD.
On April 19 2012 04:36 ToF wrote: Maybe Aphrodite can get ST Miss to sign up?
Aphrodite does not actually know MisS the last time I checked. Understandable as she is korean and MisS is Chinese. The tournament is also at a horrible time for Asia in general so I doubt she would participate. Aphrodite is just a soldier thats why she still plays :D
Yeah, but they are on the same team, so it's reasonable to assume that she could encourage her to participate...
The mighty, Storm.Luway has joined the ranks! Cannot feature her though as there is a pretty high risk she will oversleep this event because it is at a terrible time for her. If she plays though, she will be a powerhouse, and possibly Scarlett's kryptonite :D
Not much may be known about her, so here is some info: Luway is by far the best starcraft 2 female player in Taiwan. She is sponsored by Razer and has regularly beaten professional Korean players on the ladder. She has an incredible amount of fans in Taiwan and China, and hopefully will start to get her name more known internationally!
Just as a heads up, at 8:00pm EST today, this thread becomes a sponsor thread, so it will not be located in the Tourneys section anymore. Its just to promote the event and sponsors more.
I really don't like "girls only" tournaments, I think girls can do just as well as guys in any computer-game. And I think all tourneys should be open for everyone.
Because why, in this decade, are people still using "leet" in their products. Seriously. What a terrible name for a product line, Thermalright need to get a new marketing team. Maybe they could hire EG to do their marketing. Or even EC would do a better job.
On April 22 2012 21:32 Lonyo wrote: I'm going to boycott this tournament.
Because why, in this decade, are people still using "leet" in their products. Seriously. What a terrible name for a product line, Thermalright need to get a new marketing team. Maybe they could hire EG to do their marketing. Or even EC would do a better job.
Thats definitely a unique reason to boycott, I will give you credit for that.
On April 22 2012 20:35 ][Primarch][ wrote: I really don't like "girls only" tournaments, I think girls can do just as well as guys in any computer-game. And I think all tourneys should be open for everyone.
I don't see why they couldn't, unless there is an unknown biological factor. But it has never happened yet, and I wonder what is the cause of this.
On April 22 2012 20:35 ][Primarch][ wrote: I really don't like "girls only" tournaments, I think girls can do just as well as guys in any computer-game. And I think all tourneys should be open for everyone.
I don't see why they couldn't, unless there is an unknown biological factor. But it has never happened yet, and I wonder what is the cause of this.
I agree, where computers even the playing field for all unlike say the NFL where 400 pound line backers are the norm, in esports its level, it think its just so they get more recognition in a "girls" only tournament where they may not in another. not sure if it hurts or helps females in esports.
I think its really strange that Scarlett is allowed to participate in a females only-tournament. I am not questioning her official sex but rather the fact that she was born a male and so could possibly be unequal in ability to the other participants. The whole point of a female league is to give an even playing field, not just recognition for female gamers.
Please don't take this as an anti-transgender rant because it clearly isn't. Also, I am not implying that men ARE more capable than women at Starcraft II. I am sticking to anecdotal and statistical reasoning that they may be.
Would a man pretend to be transgender in order to enter a female only sc2 tourney?
I believe that's the only issue to worry about. No clue about the answer or the ramifications if it ever happens to be a yes but I do know this:
You make the scenario less likely by increasing the skill level of female only sc2 competitions and you increase the skill level by getting more women into esports, so every successfully run tournament is a good thing.
On April 23 2012 03:09 xjoehammerx wrote: luway is legit.....ridiculous 32-5 Grandmaster's account on NA server. I think if she plays she will win.
New account or was it GM/Masters in the prior season? If it's a brand new account then GM 32-5 isn't that impressive since a lot of those games will have been against low level people. 32-5 with an existing account is impressive.
Cant wait to see MajOr compete in this tournament, he just has to tell the organizers he identifies as a female. No need send in fake ID for female tournaments like he did in BW
On April 22 2012 20:35 ][Primarch][ wrote: I really don't like "girls only" tournaments, I think girls can do just as well as guys in any computer-game. And I think all tourneys should be open for everyone.
I don't see why they couldn't, unless there is an unknown biological factor. But it has never happened yet, and I wonder what is the cause of this.
On April 23 2012 01:45 sparkk51 wrote: I think its really strange that Scarlett is allowed to participate in a females only-tournament. I am not questioning her official sex but rather the fact that she was born a male and so could possibly be unequal in ability to the other participants. The whole point of a female league is to give an even playing field, not just recognition for female gamers.
Please don't take this as an anti-transgender rant because it clearly isn't. Also, I am not implying that men ARE more capable than women at Starcraft II. I am sticking to anecdotal and statistical reasoning that they may be.
User was temp banned for this post.
Spoiler tagged this because I got to the point of wall-o-texting about why the above attitude is silly.
This is stupid, why do people keep bringing up this idea that men might be inherently better at starcraft than women? Its absolutely ridiculous. What kind of biological reason could there POSSIBLY be for that? The *ONLY* think I can think of is
1 - Women are less competitive. This isn't a valid argument. At all. This is a social construct. There are many competitive women. Even overcompetitive women. Women are not inherently submissive, and saying competitiveness is a male dominated trait is borderline sexism. It implies that because society has promoted and still to some extent promotes competition for men, women are not allowed to be or expected not to be competitive themselves. Thats stupid.
2 - The opposite side of the argument. Women could be expected to be BETTER at starcraft due to greater multitasking capability. This is more contentious, but to my mind, it doesn't make sense. Now, bear in mind, I am a bronze player. I have absolutely no idea of how someones brain works when they're throwing out 600+APM micro. But as far as I see it, the two prime limitations of a starcraft player are tactical thinking/decision making under pressure, and the ability to hit the right keys in the right order really damned fast, practised movements, almost unconscious. And since our peripherals are serial input devices, we don't have the capability to input more than one command at once. Its all about how fast we can give commands one at a time.
And the UI of the game doesn't provide us with the opportunity to actually give multiple commands at once. What we percieve as multitasking in games, is actually the rapid initiation of multiple individual things one after the other. The speed with which a player can switch between individual tasks allows them to initiate actions so quickly that they can return to inputting the next action before the first one has finished.
Now to my mind, that isn't multitasking. Thats one task. Men can do it. Women can do it. There's no reason to assume either side has any innate advantage here. If someone can provide me with an example of true multitasking (Thinking of multiple things at the same time) in starcraft, I'll take their comments on board.
So to my mind, there should BE no debate on transgender, or even gender, period, in starcraft. At least not for any "potential skill" based reason.
Now, a second point, seperate to the first. There may be some merit in discussing the exposure of female players to the scene and in the scene. There are two sides to this. One says that women should be judged on the same stages as men. I agree with this on the INTENDED principle of fair competition. (Whatever the actual view of the principle might turn out to be for the individual, it comes back to this eventually.) There's no reason to provide greater opportunity to one group, when choosing between two groups of equal size.
The other says that because there are so many fewer women who play starcraft in general, at professional or casual levels, the continued growth of eSports depends on, (or at least, would greatly benefit from) its wider acceptance as a reasonable and respectable hobby, without the geek stigma it arguably suffers from currently. And that means women only leagues and promotion of female starcraft players, is essential in order to attract new players, bridge the gender divide, and foster the happiness of those female players who are setting examples and saying "Hey, there's no reason I can't do this, so I'm going to do it". Honestly, right now, for whatever damage people think it might do to the idea of "fair and broad unisex competition", I think this is the side of the argument where there is more merit. It DOES NOT have the potential to damage the prospects of male starcraft players. If a woman enters GSL, MLG, or Dreamhack, they win if and only if they have the most skill.
But if a woman enters a female only league, she simply has an opportunity to be encouraged, to find some pride in her chosen hobby/profession, and raise their own profile. And thats a good thing, because it raises the profile of starcraft, in many peoples eyes it improves the IMAGE of starcraft, and it has the potential to bring in new talent that otherwise wouldn't FIND an outlet.
Scarlett deserves every opportunity she can find. So does Flo. So does Eve. So do all female players and it will only benefit us (The starcraft community, I am male) in the long run. So do all male players for that matter, but they're not our focus.
If at some point we reach a stage where a large portion of all starcraft players are female, (again, both casually and professionally), then the viability of female only leagues might be somewhat worth questioning. At that point we (probably) won't have a gender-specific image problem as a community. We might at that point be justified in advocating a unisex tournament landscape, providing everyone with the same opportunities across the board.
But we're a long way away from that, and right now, offering more opportunities for women, and promoting the idea they get involved and join in, is a much greater benefit to eSports and Starcraft than NOT providing those extra opportunities.
Please note that above I have intentionally NOT mentioned skill at any point. There is a reason for this. I think that even now, with the minority status of women in eSports and starcraft, its nothing less than insulting to imply that there is an inherent skill gap that exists because of someones gender. There is nothing stopping a female player from breaking out right this second and crushing everyone, MKP, MMA, DRG, MVP, Naniwa, everyone.
Is that exceedingly unlikely? Yes. But no more so than it is for anyone else currently unknown. And it has nothing to do with our hypothetical person being a man or a woman. The statement "female players are currently not as good as male players" is ridiculously overextensive. Without knowledge of every female player, and their total skill, there is no way to prove it is true, and it only takes one amazing female player crushing a tournament to prove it false.
Stop trying to imply that female players are inherently different from male players in any meaningful way regarding skill. Its belittling and stupid, and the more people do it, the less welcome women who MAY HAVE the potential to be top players, will feel within the starcraft community.
Also I don't believe that chess article is valid. It's a collection of unsourced facts, given without context and without evidence of peer review having been carried out on the studies from which they came, combined with an assortment of opinion pieces written by the general public about a sport that is entirely different to starcraft. It's findings are not necessarily directly applicable, and even then, the list of facts isn't presented with any in line reasoning, its simply a list out of nowhere from which the reader is intended to draw their own conclusion, which will likely be the same as the article, owing to having been primed by the opinion piece before being presented with unqualified lists of possibly unrelated facts. Particularly suspicious is the number of times the words "May mean" and "could mean" appear alongside statements the authors know can't be given with certainty.
On April 22 2012 20:35 ][Primarch][ wrote: I really don't like "girls only" tournaments, I think girls can do just as well as guys in any computer-game. And I think all tourneys should be open for everyone.
I don't see why they couldn't, unless there is an unknown biological factor. But it has never happened yet, and I wonder what is the cause of this.
and this you just can´t change by adding boobs and growing hair long
I don't get this comment, are you saying that the only difference between women and men is boobs and long hair?
Is obvious that men and women think different, but I don't think that women have a handicap because of that, just look at Judit Polgar she has beated a lot of world champions without a problem.
Iron Lady Tournament is it some kind of special olympics? Just saying. I do not care about players gender. SC2 isn't armwrestling. If 12 yer old dude can play on dreamhack wtf is problem with girls? When we will have children only league tournament? Or it's all about boobs? Or its just to say: "Hey You! Ugly not popular females! Here, in e-sport, we have a lot of hungry males with no chance to meet normal women. You have good chances here! " Personally, I believe that competes in SC2 cup where you can get for having boobs and ... - pure disgrace.
On April 23 2012 10:44 Cheeseling wrote: Iron Lady Tournament is it some kind of special olympics? Just saying. I do not care about players gender. SC2 isn't armwrestling. If 12 yer old dude can play on dreamhack wtf is problem with girls? When we will have children only league tournament? Or it's all about boobs? Or its just to say: "Hey You! Ugly not popular females! Here, in e-sport, we have a lot of hungry males with no chance to meet normal women. You have good chances here! " Personally, I believe that competes in SC2 cup where you can get for having boobs and ... - pure disgrace.
I hope you don't mind that I mentally read this in a THICK Ukrainian accent.
On April 23 2012 10:44 Cheeseling wrote: Iron Lady Tournament is it some kind of special olympics? Just saying. I do not care about players gender. SC2 isn't armwrestling. If 12 yer old dude can play on dreamhack wtf is problem with girls? When we will have children only league tournament? Or it's all about boobs? Or its just to say: "Hey You! Ugly not popular females! Here, in e-sport, we have a lot of hungry males with no chance to meet normal women. You have good chances here! " Personally, I believe that competes in SC2 cup where you can get for having boobs and ... - pure disgrace.
I hope you don't mind that I mentally read this in a THICK Ukrainian accent.
On April 23 2012 10:44 Cheeseling wrote: Iron Lady Tournament is it some kind of special olympics? Just saying. I do not care about players gender. SC2 isn't armwrestling. If 12 yer old dude can play on dreamhack wtf is problem with girls? When we will have children only league tournament? Or it's all about boobs? Or its just to say: "Hey You! Ugly not popular females! Here, in e-sport, we have a lot of hungry males with no chance to meet normal women. You have good chances here! " Personally, I believe that competes in SC2 cup where you can get for having boobs and ... - pure disgrace.
Well I hope you post these exact same sentiments in the following threads:
College Starcraft League threads (CSL, etc), also known as "competes in sc2 cup where you can get for having money/intelligence." Metal league tourneys, also known as "competes in sc2 cup where you can get for being bad." Country only tournaments (I believe there was a swede only one a while back), also known as "competes in sc2 cup where you can get for being born in some arbitrary location." Non-sponsored player tournaments (like the playhem one or the complexity academy ones), also known as "competes in sc2 cup where you can get for being undiscovered" Clan only tourneys (EG's most Evil Genius), also known as "competes in sc2 cup where you can get for being in EG" Company leagues (AHGL), also known as "competes in sc2 cup where you can get for having a tech job"
The reality is tournament organizers may choose any criteria they want for their tournament. Is it a disgrace in the other cases?
On April 23 2012 10:44 Cheeseling wrote: Iron Lady Tournament is it some kind of special olympics? Just saying. I do not care about players gender. SC2 isn't armwrestling. If 12 yer old dude can play on dreamhack wtf is problem with girls? When we will have children only league tournament? Or it's all about boobs? Or its just to say: "Hey You! Ugly not popular females! Here, in e-sport, we have a lot of hungry males with no chance to meet normal women. You have good chances here! " Personally, I believe that competes in SC2 cup where you can get for having boobs and ... - pure disgrace.
Well I hope you post these exact same sentiments in the following threads:
College Starcraft League threads (CSL, etc), also known as "competes in sc2 cup where you can get for having money/intelligence." Metal league tourneys, also known as "competes in sc2 cup where you can get for being bad." Country only tournaments (I believe there was a swede only one a while back), also known as "competes in sc2 cup where you can get for being born in some arbitrary location. Non-sponsored player tournaments (like the playhem one or the complexity academy ones), also known as "competes in sc2 cup where you can get for being undiscovered" Clan only tourneys (EG's most Evil Genius), also known as "competes in sc2 cup where you can get for being in EG" Company leagues (AHGL), also known as "competes in sc2 cup where you can get for having a tech job"
The reality is tournament organizers may choose any criteria they want for their tournament. Is it a disgrace in the other cases?
It's two big differences: To compete between friends or on national lvl to define "the best of us" or person who will represent our group in larger tournaments. Same like local tenis, football tournaments.
And to be best of "special" The Olympic games are divided into separate leagues for women and men for the simple reason that they can not compete on equal terms. Because women worse than men on many physical characteristics. This does not mean that every woman is weaker than any man. This means that their maximum limit of some abilities is more limited. And vice versa, men are limited in such disciplines as gymnastics - compared to women. So by participating in this special Star Craft championship only for women you accept the fact that females also intellectually limited.
Also, it falls into the category of things that are "hurting e-sport": Female reporters on competitions which not understanding basics of StarCraft and asking stupid questions but has big tits. Camwhore alike streamers with wivers count directly proportional to the neckline of the dress. This make e-sport looks like as if it's just a show for teens.
On April 23 2012 10:44 Cheeseling wrote: Iron Lady Tournament is it some kind of special olympics? Just saying. I do not care about players gender. SC2 isn't armwrestling. If 12 yer old dude can play on dreamhack wtf is problem with girls? When we will have children only league tournament? Or it's all about boobs? Or its just to say: "Hey You! Ugly not popular females! Here, in e-sport, we have a lot of hungry males with no chance to meet normal women. You have good chances here! " Personally, I believe that competes in SC2 cup where you can get for having boobs and ... - pure disgrace.
Well I hope you post these exact same sentiments in the following threads:
College Starcraft League threads (CSL, etc), also known as "competes in sc2 cup where you can get for having money/intelligence." Metal league tourneys, also known as "competes in sc2 cup where you can get for being bad." Country only tournaments (I believe there was a swede only one a while back), also known as "competes in sc2 cup where you can get for being born in some arbitrary location. Non-sponsored player tournaments (like the playhem one or the complexity academy ones), also known as "competes in sc2 cup where you can get for being undiscovered" Clan only tourneys (EG's most Evil Genius), also known as "competes in sc2 cup where you can get for being in EG" Company leagues (AHGL), also known as "competes in sc2 cup where you can get for having a tech job"
The reality is tournament organizers may choose any criteria they want for their tournament. Is it a disgrace in the other cases?
It's two big differences: To compete between friends or on national lvl to define "the best of us" or person who will represent our group in larger tournaments. Same like local tenis, football tournaments.
And to be best of "special" The Olympic games are divided into separate leagues for women and men for the simple reason that they can not compete on equal terms. Because women worse than men on many physical characteristics. This does not mean that every woman is weaker than any man. This means that their maximum limit of some abilities is more limited. And vice versa, men are limited in such disciplines as gymnastics - compared to women. So by participating in this special Star Craft championship only for women you accept the fact that females also intellectually limited.
Also, it falls into the category of things that are "hurting e-sport": Female reporters on competitions which not understanding basics of StarCraft and asking stupid questions but has big tits. Camwhore alike streamers with wivers count directly proportional to the neckline of the dress. This make e-sport looks like as if it's just a show for teens.
I'll bite the bait. You are incorrect on many points. First point of it being some sort of special olympics. Iron Lady brings together people who have something in common. That something is being female. You act like every tournament has to only be about bringing people together soely based on skill. Guess what, there are 10000000000000 tournaments just for that. Secondly, this whole hurting esports is nothing but a steaming pile of crap. Why? Ask every girl who has competed in Iron Lady and ask them if it has hurt them in esports. Lets go down the list shall we? Flo: competes in several Iron Lady competitions. Goes to all MLGs and competes in open tournaments and obtains a spot on team Quantic. Iron Lady definitely destroyed her career. Maddelisk: Also competes in all Iron Lady competitions. Was just at DreamHack Stockholm and obtained a spot on team Absolute Legends. Iron Lady definitely hurt her in esports Scarlett: Won 2 back to back Iron Ladies before anyone knows who she was. Goes to IPL, gets on team Eclypsia and is now one the fasting growing player in popularity. She was surely devistated by Iron Lady. Aphrodite: Won Zowie Divina and is how the face of the company flying around the world (aka to Taiwan) promoting females to get out there and play the game. A girl event destroyed her esports career. Or were you dare trying to make the point that Iron Lady is hurting males in esports. I didn't want to assume you to be that crazy, but tell me if I'm wrong.
Quit acting like just because girls play in Iron Lady for a fun time, that they don't compete in other open events. We encourage the girls the play, and playing is what they are doing. Now stop posting nonsense that is going to get you banned. You and a handful of others keep running to the barn, dragging out the dead horse, and continue to beat it over and over again. Your points have been made by other ignorant people time and time again. Give...It....Up....
On April 23 2012 10:44 Cheeseling wrote: Iron Lady Tournament is it some kind of special olympics? Just saying. I do not care about players gender. SC2 isn't armwrestling. If 12 yer old dude can play on dreamhack wtf is problem with girls? When we will have children only league tournament? Or it's all about boobs? Or its just to say: "Hey You! Ugly not popular females! Here, in e-sport, we have a lot of hungry males with no chance to meet normal women. You have good chances here! " Personally, I believe that competes in SC2 cup where you can get for having boobs and ... - pure disgrace.
Well I hope you post these exact same sentiments in the following threads:
College Starcraft League threads (CSL, etc), also known as "competes in sc2 cup where you can get for having money/intelligence." Metal league tourneys, also known as "competes in sc2 cup where you can get for being bad." Country only tournaments (I believe there was a swede only one a while back), also known as "competes in sc2 cup where you can get for being born in some arbitrary location. Non-sponsored player tournaments (like the playhem one or the complexity academy ones), also known as "competes in sc2 cup where you can get for being undiscovered" Clan only tourneys (EG's most Evil Genius), also known as "competes in sc2 cup where you can get for being in EG" Company leagues (AHGL), also known as "competes in sc2 cup where you can get for having a tech job"
The reality is tournament organizers may choose any criteria they want for their tournament. Is it a disgrace in the other cases?
It's two big differences: To compete between friends or on national lvl to define "the best of us" or person who will represent our group in larger tournaments. Same like local tenis, football tournaments.
And to be best of "special" The Olympic games are divided into separate leagues for women and men for the simple reason that they can not compete on equal terms. Because women worse than men on many physical characteristics. This does not mean that every woman is weaker than any man. This means that their maximum limit of some abilities is more limited. And vice versa, men are limited in such disciplines as gymnastics - compared to women. So by participating in this special Star Craft championship only for women you accept the fact that females also intellectually limited.
Also, it falls into the category of things that are "hurting e-sport": Female reporters on competitions which not understanding basics of StarCraft and asking stupid questions but has big tits. Camwhore alike streamers with wivers count directly proportional to the neckline of the dress. This make e-sport looks like as if it's just a show for teens.
No, it doesn't. I think is great because female starcraft players are a minority and it's a good way to get introduced into the competitive scene.
I understood your point guys but u kinda totally ignoring and avoiding mine. Whatever "The Show Must Go On" looking forward to big boobs™ talents and fair hight lvl competition. By the way children Starcraft championship isn't bad idea and e-sport will benefit from it even more. Who wants to take on the organization?
No, it doesn't. I think is great because female starcraft players are a minority and it's a good way to get introduced into the competitive scene.
Which point? The one where you think this event is about camwhoring and boobs? Yea because the girls play on cam during Iron Lady, except they don't. Not even any of the graphics we use involving the girls involves sexually suggestive poses or clothing of any nature. So tell me, which **Correct** point did I avoid. Because I think I only avoided an invalid one.
While there isn't a league for people with no hands or disabilities (yet), looknohands is not an unknown player and the community came forward and gave him a huge amount of support.
10-12 years from now when esports is more mainstream, I wouldn't be surprised to see child or disabled person leagues, since those types of leagues exist for mainstream sports in the united states (soccer, basketball, baseball)
So much fighting - Who the hell cares, its a tournament..It promotes E-Sports, it promotes further involvement from the females in the community and these ladies compete on the same level as the guy. Same as any "country only" tournament, the Iron Lady is a "Ladies only" tournament. So get over it, stop being so upset and help promote E-sports instead of crying wolf, when there is no wolf.
On a side note, I can't wait to see this Pharside! It looks to be a very promising tournament. Good luck to all the ladies playing in it.
Genuine question because I have no idea how admins of this tournament would act in this situation:
If, lets say, I feel like a woman and I would like to be reffered as "she" but I didn't yet start "transforming" (or what the hell is the right term) process would I be able to compete?
More realistic question: one of my best friends knows a person who really feels and acts like a girl but doesn't have money for body change/hormones etc, that person is also avid gamer, would admins accept her for this tournament?
I am asking this because I would like to know where is the line, who and how do you decide who is eligible to enter tournament.
Anyway, good luck with tournament, I hope a lot of people will tune-in and watch this!
On April 23 2012 01:45 sparkk51 wrote: I think its really strange that Scarlett is allowed to participate in a females only-tournament. I am not questioning her official sex but rather the fact that she was born a male and so could possibly be unequal in ability to the other participants. The whole point of a female league is to give an even playing field, not just recognition for female gamers.
Please don't take this as an anti-transgender rant because it clearly isn't. Also, I am not implying that men ARE more capable than women at Starcraft II. I am sticking to anecdotal and statistical reasoning that they may be.
User was temp banned for this post.
Spoiler tagged this because I got to the point of wall-o-texting about why the above attitude is silly.
This is stupid, why do people keep bringing up this idea that men might be inherently better at starcraft than women? Its absolutely ridiculous. What kind of biological reason could there POSSIBLY be for that? The *ONLY* think I can think of is
1 - Women are less competitive. This isn't a valid argument. At all. This is a social construct. There are many competitive women. Even overcompetitive women. Women are not inherently submissive, and saying competitiveness is a male dominated trait is borderline sexism. It implies that because society has promoted and still to some extent promotes competition for men, women are not allowed to be or expected not to be competitive themselves. Thats stupid.
2 - The opposite side of the argument. Women could be expected to be BETTER at starcraft due to greater multitasking capability. This is more contentious, but to my mind, it doesn't make sense. Now, bear in mind, I am a bronze player. I have absolutely no idea of how someones brain works when they're throwing out 600+APM micro. But as far as I see it, the two prime limitations of a starcraft player are tactical thinking/decision making under pressure, and the ability to hit the right keys in the right order really damned fast, practised movements, almost unconscious. And since our peripherals are serial input devices, we don't have the capability to input more than one command at once. Its all about how fast we can give commands one at a time.
And the UI of the game doesn't provide us with the opportunity to actually give multiple commands at once. What we percieve as multitasking in games, is actually the rapid initiation of multiple individual things one after the other. The speed with which a player can switch between individual tasks allows them to initiate actions so quickly that they can return to inputting the next action before the first one has finished.
Now to my mind, that isn't multitasking. Thats one task. Men can do it. Women can do it. There's no reason to assume either side has any innate advantage here. If someone can provide me with an example of true multitasking (Thinking of multiple things at the same time) in starcraft, I'll take their comments on board.
So to my mind, there should BE no debate on transgender, or even gender, period, in starcraft. At least not for any "potential skill" based reason.
Now, a second point, seperate to the first. There may be some merit in discussing the exposure of female players to the scene and in the scene. There are two sides to this. One says that women should be judged on the same stages as men. I agree with this on the INTENDED principle of fair competition. (Whatever the actual view of the principle might turn out to be for the individual, it comes back to this eventually.) There's no reason to provide greater opportunity to one group, when choosing between two groups of equal size.
The other says that because there are so many fewer women who play starcraft in general, at professional or casual levels, the continued growth of eSports depends on, (or at least, would greatly benefit from) its wider acceptance as a reasonable and respectable hobby, without the geek stigma it arguably suffers from currently. And that means women only leagues and promotion of female starcraft players, is essential in order to attract new players, bridge the gender divide, and foster the happiness of those female players who are setting examples and saying "Hey, there's no reason I can't do this, so I'm going to do it". Honestly, right now, for whatever damage people think it might do to the idea of "fair and broad unisex competition", I think this is the side of the argument where there is more merit. It DOES NOT have the potential to damage the prospects of male starcraft players. If a woman enters GSL, MLG, or Dreamhack, they win if and only if they have the most skill.
But if a woman enters a female only league, she simply has an opportunity to be encouraged, to find some pride in her chosen hobby/profession, and raise their own profile. And thats a good thing, because it raises the profile of starcraft, in many peoples eyes it improves the IMAGE of starcraft, and it has the potential to bring in new talent that otherwise wouldn't FIND an outlet.
Scarlett deserves every opportunity she can find. So does Flo. So does Eve. So do all female players and it will only benefit us (The starcraft community, I am male) in the long run. So do all male players for that matter, but they're not our focus.
If at some point we reach a stage where a large portion of all starcraft players are female, (again, both casually and professionally), then the viability of female only leagues might be somewhat worth questioning. At that point we (probably) won't have a gender-specific image problem as a community. We might at that point be justified in advocating a unisex tournament landscape, providing everyone with the same opportunities across the board.
But we're a long way away from that, and right now, offering more opportunities for women, and promoting the idea they get involved and join in, is a much greater benefit to eSports and Starcraft than NOT providing those extra opportunities.
Please note that above I have intentionally NOT mentioned skill at any point. There is a reason for this. I think that even now, with the minority status of women in eSports and starcraft, its nothing less than insulting to imply that there is an inherent skill gap that exists because of someones gender. There is nothing stopping a female player from breaking out right this second and crushing everyone, MKP, MMA, DRG, MVP, Naniwa, everyone.
Is that exceedingly unlikely? Yes. But no more so than it is for anyone else currently unknown. And it has nothing to do with our hypothetical person being a man or a woman. The statement "female players are currently not as good as male players" is ridiculously overextensive. Without knowledge of every female player, and their total skill, there is no way to prove it is true, and it only takes one amazing female player crushing a tournament to prove it false.
Stop trying to imply that female players are inherently different from male players in any meaningful way regarding skill. Its belittling and stupid, and the more people do it, the less welcome women who MAY HAVE the potential to be top players, will feel within the starcraft community.
Also I don't believe that chess article is valid. It's a collection of unsourced facts, given without context and without evidence of peer review having been carried out on the studies from which they came, combined with an assortment of opinion pieces written by the general public about a sport that is entirely different to starcraft. It's findings are not necessarily directly applicable, and even then, the list of facts isn't presented with any in line reasoning, its simply a list out of nowhere from which the reader is intended to draw their own conclusion, which will likely be the same as the article, owing to having been primed by the opinion piece before being presented with unqualified lists of possibly unrelated facts. Particularly suspicious is the number of times the words "May mean" and "could mean" appear alongside statements the authors know can't be given with certainty.
I've bolded the part of your post (inside the spoiler) that I wish to comment on, but I'll repeat it for the sake of clarity: You write: "This is stupid, why do people keep bringing up this idea that men might be inherently better at starcraft than women? Its absolutely ridiculous. What kind of biological reason could there POSSIBLY be for that?". Let me analyze your argument for a bit: You seem to claim either that: 1) because both genders are equal and have the same rights and opportunities for intellectual development in our civilized society, then both genders must have the exact same ability/potential to excel in those fields, and by extension, in SC2. This is not necessarily so. What kind of values we have in our society does not necessarily reflect what kind of physical bodies we have. or 2) Because both men and women have brains, then they must be equally good at SC2, or possibly because you personally don't know any research that has proven women to have a disability at SC2, then they must be equally good. Allow me to flip this argument upside down: Because both men and women have muscles, then there's no reason that they shouldn't be just as strong or athletic. I have never in my life seen a growth hormone or testosterone, so there is no reason women shouldn't be able to develop their muscles in the same way as men do. This, of course, is complete BS because men and women are, in fact, different. Likewise, just because you haven't seen the neural pathways that possibly (I don't know if there actually is one, but I wouldn't discount it) give men an advantage over women in SC2, doesn't mean it isn't there. The end result is the same, however. When it comes athletic feats, men are dominating the field, and when it comes to SC2, men are dominating the field. My point is that any claims about physiology should be based on fact and not on ideology. Men might be inherently better than women at SC2. You should read the entire thread and especially the post about reaction times for men and women.
HOWEVER: I don't think the physiological differences between men and women are important at all when it comes to Iron Lady. If you start down the road about females being all about physiology, then you run into all kinds of problems. I have heard that people from the Horn of Africa are the least dimorphic (i.e. have the least difference between man and woman). Does that mean that Somalian women are the least "women-like" and should possibly be banned from Iron Lady? Or conversely, are Somalian men most women-like and should be allowed to enter Iron Lady? Or what about girls with hormone imbalances? Or people with organs from both genders, or girls lacking some of the female organs? Moreover, some women have bigger muscles than some men. Should those women compete in strength contests with men instead, for it to be fair? And conversely, could men with small muscles compete with the women, for it to be fair? Or, what if there there was some research that showed that Asian brains are least dimorphic? Should Aphrodite, luway, flo etc., be banned from Iron Lady on the basis that their genes give them almost man-like brains? I don't think that Iron Lady is about genes, hormones or physiology, but about identity. I think it is about a large group of gamers who feel that they have something in common and that they are a minority. In that respect, Scarlett may have an inherent advantage, being born a boy (but then again if she was born with a girl's brain in a boy's body, then she wouldn't), but she certainly doesn't cheat, because the requirement is not having a woman's physiology (which I doubt anyone could specify adequately), but the requirement is being one of those who truly call themselves a girl and identifies with that group of people. And Scarlett fulfills all those requirements.
As for the rest, I fully agree with you that there should be female-only tournaments, so I won't go into that. I wrote this because I think people should keep ideology and physiology separate. Yes, we are all equals, but that doesn't mean we are all alike. In fact, we are all different and unique. Some are qualitatively better at living under the hot sun in Africa (i.e. they have darker skin) while other people are qualitatively better at living through dark winters with a reduced supply of D vitamins (i.e. have lighter skin). We are not alike, because that is physiology, but we are each other's equals, because that is ideology. Likewise, who does compete and does not compete in Iron Lady, and the existence of the tournament itself is not something that is decided on the factual basis of physiology (and certainly not on the basis of what some uneducated guys on the internet think they know about physiology, me included, of course), but on the basis of ideology. In this case, on the basis that they want to create a tournament for girls and not much else.
On April 23 2012 18:23 whiterabbit wrote: Genuine question because I have no idea how admins of this tournament would act in this situation:
If, lets say, I feel like a woman and I would like to be reffered as "she" but I didn't yet start "transforming" (or what the hell is the right term) process would I be able to compete?
More realistic question: one of my best friends knows a person who really feels and acts like a girl but doesn't have money for body change/hormones etc, that person is also avid gamer, would admins accept him for this tournament?
I am asking this because I would like to know where is the line, who and how do you decide who is eligible to enter tournament.
Anyway, good luck with tournament, I hope a lot of people will tune-in and watch this!
Yes. That is what Phraside and GoSc support. Is that if you honestly feel female, identify yourself as a female and live your life as a female you will be treated as one. Many people understand that the operation is expensive and its not something everyone can afford, or it may take many years before they can under go the operation. So yes- Your friend would and will be accepted as a female member of the community - Both by GoSc and in the Iron Lady Tournaments.
On April 23 2012 18:23 whiterabbit wrote: Genuine question because I have no idea how admins of this tournament would act in this situation:
If, lets say, I feel like a woman and I would like to be reffered as "she" but I didn't yet start "transforming" (or what the hell is the right term) process would I be able to compete?
More realistic question: one of my best friends knows a person who really feels and acts like a girl but doesn't have money for body change/hormones etc, that person is also avid gamer, would admins accept him for this tournament?
I am asking this because I would like to know where is the line, who and how do you decide who is eligible to enter tournament.
Anyway, good luck with tournament, I hope a lot of people will tune-in and watch this!
Yes. That is what Phraside and GoSc support. Is that if you honestly feel female, identify yourself as a female and live your life as a female you will be treated as one. Many people understand that the operation is expensive and its not something everyone can afford, or it may take many years before they can under go the operation. So yes- Your friend would and will be accepted as a female member of the community - Both by GoSc and in the Iron Lady Tournaments.
Thanks for answer, this surely clarified things I didn't understand about organization and tournament. Have fun!
On April 23 2012 18:23 whiterabbit wrote: Genuine question because I have no idea how admins of this tournament would act in this situation:
If, lets say, I feel like a woman and I would like to be reffered as "she" but I didn't yet start "transforming" (or what the hell is the right term) process would I be able to compete?
More realistic question: one of my best friends knows a person who really feels and acts like a girl but doesn't have money for body change/hormones etc, that person is also avid gamer, would admins accept him for this tournament?
I am asking this because I would like to know where is the line, who and how do you decide who is eligible to enter tournament.
Anyway, good luck with tournament, I hope a lot of people will tune-in and watch this!
Yes. That is what Phraside and GoSc support. Is that if you honestly feel female, identify yourself as a female and live your life as a female you will be treated as one. Many people understand that the operation is expensive and its not something everyone can afford, or it may take many years before they can under go the operation. So yes- Your friend would and will be accepted as a female member of the community - Both by GoSc and in the Iron Lady Tournaments.
Thanks for answer, this surely clarified things I didn't understand about organization and tournament. Have fun!
My pleasure! If your friend decide she would like to join GoSc or has any questions, both you and her are welcome to contact me. Just shot me a private message here on TL.
On April 23 2012 18:23 whiterabbit wrote: Genuine question because I have no idea how admins of this tournament would act in this situation:
If, lets say, I feel like a woman and I would like to be reffered as "she" but I didn't yet start "transforming" (or what the hell is the right term) process would I be able to compete?
More realistic question: one of my best friends knows a person who really feels and acts like a girl but doesn't have money for body change/hormones etc, that person is also avid gamer, would admins accept him for this tournament?
I am asking this because I would like to know where is the line, who and how do you decide who is eligible to enter tournament.
Anyway, good luck with tournament, I hope a lot of people will tune-in and watch this!
Yes. That is what Phraside and GoSc support. Is that if you honestly feel female, identify yourself as a female and live your life as a female you will be treated as one. Many people understand that the operation is expensive and its not something everyone can afford, or it may take many years before they can under go the operation. So yes- Your friend would and will be accepted as a female member of the community - Both by GoSc and in the Iron Lady Tournaments.
Thanks for answer, this surely clarified things I didn't understand about organization and tournament. Have fun!
My pleasure! If your friend decide she would like to join GoSc or has any questions, both you and her are welcome to contact me. Just shot me a private message here on TL.
Heh, as I said in original post I was talking about friend's friend, I actually don't know her personally but I'll be sure to tell to my friend to tell her about TLnet (if she doesn't visit it already) and about GoSc/tournaments. Thanks and best of luck!
On April 23 2012 18:23 whiterabbit wrote: Genuine question because I have no idea how admins of this tournament would act in this situation:
If, lets say, I feel like a woman and I would like to be reffered as "she" but I didn't yet start "transforming" (or what the hell is the right term) process would I be able to compete?
More realistic question: one of my best friends knows a person who really feels and acts like a girl but doesn't have money for body change/hormones etc, that person is also avid gamer, would admins accept him for this tournament?
I am asking this because I would like to know where is the line, who and how do you decide who is eligible to enter tournament.
Anyway, good luck with tournament, I hope a lot of people will tune-in and watch this!
Yes. That is what Phraside and GoSc support. Is that if you honestly feel female, identify yourself as a female and live your life as a female you will be treated as one. Many people understand that the operation is expensive and its not something everyone can afford, or it may take many years before they can under go the operation. So yes- Your friend would and will be accepted as a female member of the community - Both by GoSc and in the Iron Lady Tournaments.
Thanks for answer, this surely clarified things I didn't understand about organization and tournament. Have fun!
My pleasure! If your friend decide she would like to join GoSc or has any questions, both you and her are welcome to contact me. Just shot me a private message here on TL.
Heh, as I said in original post I was talking about friend's friend, I actually don't know her personally but I'll be sure to tell to my friend to tell her about TLnet (if she doesn't visit it already) and about GoSc/tournaments. Thanks and best of luck!
Oh my apologies. I misread then. Well that is great. Thank you again so much. Please make sure to watch the tournament!
I'm really interested in seeing how Luway and Aphrodite do. The female scene has been kind of segregated from the larger scene, so there's been so little baseline for so long. With Scarlett having made a name for herself, any of the other girls who manage to challenge or even beat her will make a name for themselves as well.
Still going to be watching this even though i should be studying for my may exams, really do hope theres an upset, I like supporting underdogs far more than favourites, just find it more exciting :D.
Yea I haven't seen Pikachu around for a loong time. In one of the first Iron Ladies, the Taiwanese caster told me she had quit playing starcraft 2 competitively.
Deleted some post cause people appear not to understand what "posting on-topic" is. I swear if we're gonna have to modnote this as well Disneyland is going to experience a big influx in population.
Great way to help introduce more females into sc2 and the whole e-sports scene This thread was quite bad though, mods obviously share ideals on freedom of speech with the late Kim Jong-il.
Boy have we got a surprise for you all! We'd like to welcome our next player: SlayerS.Eve This is her first international tournament debut if I am not mistaken. So definitely cheer her on, and make her feel welcomed!
Lots of people are curious about just how good a player Eve is. This should get lots of viewers.
Also, fun fact: The Iron Lady tournament with most participants was the very first one, with 24 players. If one more player signs up for this and if everyone shows up, it will be a new Iron Lady record. Moreover, The biggest female-only tournament in terms of players, was SC2goesFemale #2 which had 31 players. That's only 7 players away. If the entire bracket is filled up come tournament day, Iron Lady can brag about holding the biggest female-only tournament ever (for SC2, that is).
On April 27 2012 05:05 jeeneeus wrote: Scarlett wins so easy.
I think you are underestimating the skill of the other players. I think luway or ST.Aphrodite are capable of winning this as well. We'll see though, maybe Scarlett is just that good.
This is stupid. There is a reason that transvestites or what Scarlet is calling herself cant compete with women in sports. Cant play hockey or football with the girls if you are born a man. Same should go for SC2.
I dont care if Scarlett want to be called a girl or not or about scarlets sexual preferences. Dont care at all. But I really think she should stay out of female SC2 tournaments.
I'm curious to see how the others deal with Scarlett. With her recent success against Code S players as well as many other famous players such as NEXAvenge I want to see how players like Flo, Aphordite, and Eve deal with Scarlett. I also want to see how well Eve plays and if her experience with Slayers has really helped her skill level improve.
if it's not too late to sign up, and I somehow make it home in time; I'll play.. because yayifications! Although I've not played for a while so I'll have to hope for a miracle to do well...
On April 29 2012 03:24 rave[wcr] wrote: eve's first 2 games were unimpressive so far. hard to tell her real skill level yet
Her opponent wasn't exactly a pro, so yeah, it's hard to rank her. But she's definitely not the gold-league player she was when she joined SlayerS so long ago.
How long has it been since SlayerS acquiring her was announced? Finally we see her in a tournament, but with no announcement beforehand whatsoever. :D Hope to see a Eve vs Scarlett final. :D
On April 29 2012 03:24 rave[wcr] wrote: eve's first 2 games were unimpressive so far. hard to tell her real skill level yet
Her opponent wasn't exactly a pro, so yeah, it's hard to rank her. But she's definitely not the gold-league player she was when she joined SlayerS so long ago.
I think she was diamond on the account she played (but that one was not named slayerseve).
On April 29 2012 05:05 DavidHolmes wrote: From Her twitter:
"AuRora 2-1 VS SlayeRS_EvE!!! YAHHHHHHOOOOOOO"
"So , they disqualified my series with EVE because the map METROPOLIS was picked instead of metalopolis. It was EVE's pick, not even mine"
"Oh well, not replaying a series I won, to tired for this ;/ GL guys #ESL Great tourney as usual"
:o, well, that's kind of weird. I think it might be an slightly an over reaction to just leave it all, but it's also weird that they would punish aurora for eve picking a map that isn't in the map pool (which I guess is what happened?).
On April 29 2012 05:05 DavidHolmes wrote: From Her twitter:
"AuRora 2-1 VS SlayeRS_EvE!!! YAHHHHHHOOOOOOO"
"So , they disqualified my series with EVE because the map METROPOLIS was picked instead of metalopolis. It was EVE's pick, not even mine"
"Oh well, not replaying a series I won, to tired for this ;/ GL guys #ESL Great tourney as usual"
But Eve won game 2. Do they seriously give the winner map choice ?
Map pick rules from the tournament website:
Best of 3 - All Rounds: Each player eliminates 3 maps from the map pool. Player with the highest seed starts first. Of the 3 maps remaining, player with higher seed picks Map 1 for the series, then player 2 picks Map 2 for the series. The map remaining will be the 3rd Ace Map of the series.
So maps are pre-picked by players. I guess Eve had a higher seed than AuRora and picked Metropolis as 3rd map, which isn't in the pool.
Strange reaction from ESL though. Eve picked the wrong map and lost on it while AuRora got punished for it by having to regame.
Best of 3 - All Rounds: Each player eliminates 3 maps from the map pool. Player with the highest seed starts first. Of the 3 maps remaining, player with higher seed picks Map 1 for the series, then player 2 picks Map 2 for the series. The map remaining will be the 3rd Ace Map of the series.
So maps are pre-picked by players. I guess Eve had a higher seed than AuRora and picked Metropolis as 3rd map, which isn't in the pool.
Strange reaction from ESL though. Eve picked the wrong map and lost on it while AuRora got punished for it by having to regame.
Ah thanks. But what DavidHolmes is right too, OP says Metropolis is in map pool. Weird. >_>
On April 29 2012 05:05 DavidHolmes wrote: From Her twitter:
"AuRora 2-1 VS SlayeRS_EvE!!! YAHHHHHHOOOOOOO"
"So , they disqualified my series with EVE because the map METROPOLIS was picked instead of metalopolis. It was EVE's pick, not even mine"
"Oh well, not replaying a series I won, to tired for this ;/ GL guys #ESL Great tourney as usual"
But Eve won game 2. Do they seriously give the winner map choice ?
Map pick rules from the tournament website:
Best of 3 - All Rounds: Each player eliminates 3 maps from the map pool. Player with the highest seed starts first. Of the 3 maps remaining, player with higher seed picks Map 1 for the series, then player 2 picks Map 2 for the series. The map remaining will be the 3rd Ace Map of the series.
So maps are pre-picked by players. I guess Eve had a higher seed than AuRora and picked Metropolis as 3rd map, which isn't in the pool.
Strange reaction from ESL though. Eve picked the wrong map and lost on it while AuRora got punished for it by having to regame.
Ah thanks. But what DavidHolmes is right too, OP says Metropolis is in map pool. Weird. >_>
I dont see Metropolis in the map pool on the rules page (the link I edited into my previous post).
On April 29 2012 05:05 DavidHolmes wrote: From Her twitter:
"AuRora 2-1 VS SlayeRS_EvE!!! YAHHHHHHOOOOOOO"
"So , they disqualified my series with EVE because the map METROPOLIS was picked instead of metalopolis. It was EVE's pick, not even mine"
"Oh well, not replaying a series I won, to tired for this ;/ GL guys #ESL Great tourney as usual"
But Eve won game 2. Do they seriously give the winner map choice ?
Map pick rules from the tournament website:
Best of 3 - All Rounds: Each player eliminates 3 maps from the map pool. Player with the highest seed starts first. Of the 3 maps remaining, player with higher seed picks Map 1 for the series, then player 2 picks Map 2 for the series. The map remaining will be the 3rd Ace Map of the series.
So maps are pre-picked by players. I guess Eve had a higher seed than AuRora and picked Metropolis as 3rd map, which isn't in the pool.
Strange reaction from ESL though. Eve picked the wrong map and lost on it while AuRora got punished for it by having to regame.
Ah thanks. But what DavidHolmes is right too, OP says Metropolis is in map pool. Weird. >_>
I dont see Metropolis in the map pool on the rules page (the link I edited into my previous post).
It looks like Metropolis is in the OP, but Dual Sight is in its place on the rules page. I'm guessing they changed it due to the Metropolis lag bugs, but forgot to update the TL thread OP...
On April 29 2012 05:05 DavidHolmes wrote: From Her twitter:
"AuRora 2-1 VS SlayeRS_EvE!!! YAHHHHHHOOOOOOO"
"So , they disqualified my series with EVE because the map METROPOLIS was picked instead of metalopolis. It was EVE's pick, not even mine"
"Oh well, not replaying a series I won, to tired for this ;/ GL guys #ESL Great tourney as usual"
But Eve won game 2. Do they seriously give the winner map choice ?
Map pick rules from the tournament website:
Best of 3 - All Rounds: Each player eliminates 3 maps from the map pool. Player with the highest seed starts first. Of the 3 maps remaining, player with higher seed picks Map 1 for the series, then player 2 picks Map 2 for the series. The map remaining will be the 3rd Ace Map of the series.
So maps are pre-picked by players. I guess Eve had a higher seed than AuRora and picked Metropolis as 3rd map, which isn't in the pool.
Strange reaction from ESL though. Eve picked the wrong map and lost on it while AuRora got punished for it by having to regame.
Ah thanks. But what DavidHolmes is right too, OP says Metropolis is in map pool. Weird. >_>
I dont see Metropolis in the map pool on the rules page (the link I edited into my previous post).
But it's on the frontpage. Though someone of them might have choosen that they should not play there, and if that was Eve then things kind of make sense except aurora says eve picked map.
On April 29 2012 05:05 DavidHolmes wrote: From Her twitter:
"AuRora 2-1 VS SlayeRS_EvE!!! YAHHHHHHOOOOOOO"
"So , they disqualified my series with EVE because the map METROPOLIS was picked instead of metalopolis. It was EVE's pick, not even mine"
"Oh well, not replaying a series I won, to tired for this ;/ GL guys #ESL Great tourney as usual"
But Eve won game 2. Do they seriously give the winner map choice ?
Map pick rules from the tournament website:
Best of 3 - All Rounds: Each player eliminates 3 maps from the map pool. Player with the highest seed starts first. Of the 3 maps remaining, player with higher seed picks Map 1 for the series, then player 2 picks Map 2 for the series. The map remaining will be the 3rd Ace Map of the series.
So maps are pre-picked by players. I guess Eve had a higher seed than AuRora and picked Metropolis as 3rd map, which isn't in the pool.
Strange reaction from ESL though. Eve picked the wrong map and lost on it while AuRora got punished for it by having to regame.
Ah thanks. But what DavidHolmes is right too, OP says Metropolis is in map pool. Weird. >_>
I dont see Metropolis in the map pool on the rules page (the link I edited into my previous post).
But it's on the frontpage. Though someone of them might have choosen that they should not play there, and if that was Eve then things kind of make sense except aurora says eve picked map.
So the frontpage here and the ESL website contradict eachother when it comes to the mappool. Looks like ESL messed that one up quite a bit and AuRora had to suffer for it. Shame
We did not disqualify her Series as a whole. The mappool was updated on News and Rules on ESL site and this was mappool pasted to all the girls in the channel several times: Day Break LE - MLG Metalopolis - Shattered Temple - Shakuras Plateau - Entombed Valley - Tal'darim Altar LE - GSL Dual Sight - MLG Antiga Shipyard -Ohana LE
All that needed to happen was a regame of game 3. Not the entire series. She states that Eve wanted to play Metro, but that doesn't matter as players are never allowed to "agree" on different maps to play that are not in the map pool.
She decided she did not want to do game 3 again, and forfeited.
aphrodite should beat eve, but i don't really see anyone beating scarlett, aphrodite might have a slight chance, but scarlett's still the favorite there
whats up with all the pink shit? female gamers already have a hard enough time gaining acceptance with the mainstream crowd.. why not just have a female tourney but with regular color schemes..?
On April 29 2012 06:31 Dundron2000 wrote: whats up with all the pink shit? female gamers already have a hard enough time gaining acceptance with the mainstream crowd.. why not just have a female tourney but with regular color schemes..?
There is nothing wrong with coloring things pink...and there is nothing 'irregular' about it in any important sense.
Haven't been into the female scene but gotta admit this tournament is good, i love being a nub and not being super familiar with the players and just getting first impressions and seeing their styles and strengths/weaknessess! who would people say are the ones to watch out for? Scarlett?
I really wish there was another stream, I find the high voice rather annoying and the games without the ingame sound rather dull to watch...so I keep switching between, mute and unmute, but another streamer would be a great idea for future tournements.
On April 29 2012 06:52 Yst wrote: And what on earth is a "regular" colour scheme?
Red vs Blue? Or I think he was referring to that the streamer is using the enhanced color mod.
my point is whenever there is a female tournament everything has to be pink all of a sudden. i dont understand why.
Pink is usually a color associated with females, especially young females. I do not see how this is confusing at all.
no its very predictable, but counterproductive nonetheless
How is having a pink-involving color scheme 'counterproductive' at all? They have to pick a color scheme. Pink is a popular color, and one that many women prefer. So they pick pink. What is the problem here? I think it looks great.
This Scarlett vs Aphrodite seems like it's on a whole other level than the rest of the tournament. Scarlett's winning now, but Aphrodite was showing her a good fight for a while.
In those messy early game scrums, Scarlett's very good micro has won out time and again. A lot of credit to Aphrodite for very much giving her a run for her money there.
Hm that's strange. The percentages went up for Aphrodite when she lost the first match. I guess those scary pushes/pressures was enough to convince some people that Aphrodite will win this best of series.
On April 29 2012 08:20 Sovano wrote: Hm that's strange. The percentages went up for Aphrodite when she lost the first match. I guess those scary pushes/pressures was enough to convince some people that Aphrodite will win this best of series.
I don't know if she'll win in the end, but she's definitely competitive. I think a lot of people just took for granted that Scarlett would take the whole tournament and might have been surprised to see that Aphrodite can give her a run for her money.
On April 29 2012 06:52 Yst wrote: And what on earth is a "regular" colour scheme?
Red vs Blue? Or I think he was referring to that the streamer is using the enhanced color mod.
my point is whenever there is a female tournament everything has to be pink all of a sudden. i dont understand why.
Pink is usually a color associated with females, especially young females. I do not see how this is confusing at all.
no its very predictable, but counterproductive nonetheless
How is having a pink-involving color scheme 'counterproductive' at all? They have to pick a color scheme. Pink is a popular color, and one that many women prefer. So they pick pink. What is the problem here? I think it looks great.
It can be considered to enforce the stereotypic picture of girls loving pink, horses and barbiedolls (horses and barbiedolls just randomy picked out of other stereotypic things that girls are supposed to love). And generally speaking, enforcing stereotypes can be considered contraproductive in a tournament that otherwise tries to break stereotypes (ie that only guys likes games, or at least competitve ones such as starcraft).
On April 29 2012 06:52 Yst wrote: And what on earth is a "regular" colour scheme?
Red vs Blue? Or I think he was referring to that the streamer is using the enhanced color mod.
my point is whenever there is a female tournament everything has to be pink all of a sudden. i dont understand why.
Pink is usually a color associated with females, especially young females. I do not see how this is confusing at all.
no its very predictable, but counterproductive nonetheless
How is having a pink-involving color scheme 'counterproductive' at all? They have to pick a color scheme. Pink is a popular color, and one that many women prefer. So they pick pink. What is the problem here? I think it looks great.
thats why the entire layout is in pink as well i suppose? it makes them females first and gamers second. the organizers are telling me the reason i am watching is because theyre women, not because its starcraft.
On April 29 2012 06:52 Yst wrote: And what on earth is a "regular" colour scheme?
Red vs Blue? Or I think he was referring to that the streamer is using the enhanced color mod.
my point is whenever there is a female tournament everything has to be pink all of a sudden. i dont understand why.
Pink is usually a color associated with females, especially young females. I do not see how this is confusing at all.
no its very predictable, but counterproductive nonetheless
How is having a pink-involving color scheme 'counterproductive' at all? They have to pick a color scheme. Pink is a popular color, and one that many women prefer. So they pick pink. What is the problem here? I think it looks great.
thats why the entire layout is in pink as well i suppose? it makes them females first and gamers second. the organizers are telling me the reason i am watching is because theyre women, not because its starcraft.
its a female tournament; the whole point is that they are female gamers. whats the problem?
On April 29 2012 06:52 Yst wrote: And what on earth is a "regular" colour scheme?
Red vs Blue? Or I think he was referring to that the streamer is using the enhanced color mod.
my point is whenever there is a female tournament everything has to be pink all of a sudden. i dont understand why.
Pink is usually a color associated with females, especially young females. I do not see how this is confusing at all.
no its very predictable, but counterproductive nonetheless
How is having a pink-involving color scheme 'counterproductive' at all? They have to pick a color scheme. Pink is a popular color, and one that many women prefer. So they pick pink. What is the problem here? I think it looks great.
thats why the entire layout is in pink as well i suppose? it makes them females first and gamers second. the organizers are telling me the reason i am watching is because theyre women, not because its starcraft.
its a female tournament; the whole point is that they are female gamers. whats the problem?
i just wish it didnt have to be like this is all.. i just wish we could all be gamers
On April 29 2012 06:52 Yst wrote: And what on earth is a "regular" colour scheme?
Red vs Blue? Or I think he was referring to that the streamer is using the enhanced color mod.
my point is whenever there is a female tournament everything has to be pink all of a sudden. i dont understand why.
Pink is usually a color associated with females, especially young females. I do not see how this is confusing at all.
no its very predictable, but counterproductive nonetheless
How is having a pink-involving color scheme 'counterproductive' at all? They have to pick a color scheme. Pink is a popular color, and one that many women prefer. So they pick pink. What is the problem here? I think it looks great.
thats why the entire layout is in pink as well i suppose? it makes them females first and gamers second. the organizers are telling me the reason i am watching is because theyre women, not because its starcraft.
its a female tournament; the whole point is that they are female gamers. whats the problem?
i just wish it didnt have to be like this is all.. i just wish we could all be gamers
using pink for a female tournament doesn't make them any less gamers. it's not like they are posting scantily-clad pictures of the players and showing tits/ass to sell their product. these are legit players and they have handled this tournament extremely well.
thanks for the tournament; it was fun to watch. congrats to scarlett!
On April 22 2012 20:35 ][Primarch][ wrote: I really don't like "girls only" tournaments, I think girls can do just as well as guys in any computer-game. And I think all tourneys should be open for everyone.
User was temp banned for this post.
Why this got a warning/ban??
There is nothing more sexist than "X sex only" activites when in fact sex does not mean a difference at all in that particular activity.
On April 22 2012 20:35 ][Primarch][ wrote: I really don't like "girls only" tournaments, I think girls can do just as well as guys in any computer-game. And I think all tourneys should be open for everyone.
User was temp banned for this post.
Why this got a warning/ban??
There is nothing more sexist than "X sex only" activites when in fact sex does not mean a difference at all in that particular activity.
These comments come up over and over again in every single thread about female tournaments. I'm pretty sure they get banned for derailing threads with a discussion where there's nothing new to add.
Or as the ban comment says, "We've been down this road 100x before".
Insane creep spread, the pure roach composition was an interesting choice, but now that I think about it so was going mech in cross positions on TDA. WP Scarlett
On April 22 2012 20:35 ][Primarch][ wrote: I really don't like "girls only" tournaments, I think girls can do just as well as guys in any computer-game. And I think all tourneys should be open for everyone.
User was temp banned for this post.
Why this got a warning/ban??
There is nothing more sexist than "X sex only" activites when in fact sex does not mean a difference at all in that particular activity.
On April 22 2012 20:35 ][Primarch][ wrote: I really don't like "girls only" tournaments, I think girls can do just as well as guys in any computer-game. And I think all tourneys should be open for everyone.
User was temp banned for this post.
Why this got a warning/ban??
There is nothing more sexist than "X sex only" activites when in fact sex does not mean a difference at all in that particular activity.
Nationality doesn't mean anything in StarCraft either but I see plenty of ____ country events. I see plenty of Diamond only events. I see an event where you have to have a TL account to register. I see plenty of events that have any arbitrary distinction that classifies players, are you suggesting that a tournament for only Polish players is somehow racist?
As for why the warning happened, it's because every female tournament has a lot of people debating this and not discussing the actual tournament. If anyone wishes to talk about this or talk to me about this, make another thread or PM me. Otherwise we'll be warning and moderating the thread.
Didn't watch much of the event but watching a game on Shattered was a turn off. Map isn't on the ladder anymore and hasn't had a place in tournaments in a long time. I'd also remove shakuras and metalopolis but they're not as big of an issue. Maybe cloud kingdom could be added to replace them but I don't think there is anything wrong with having a smaller map pool.
On April 29 2012 05:17 pHaRSiDE wrote: We did not disqualify her Series as a whole. The mappool was updated on News and Rules on ESL site and this was mappool pasted to all the girls in the channel several times: Day Break LE - MLG Metalopolis - Shattered Temple - Shakuras Plateau - Entombed Valley - Tal'darim Altar LE - GSL Dual Sight - MLG Antiga Shipyard -Ohana LE
All that needed to happen was a regame of game 3. Not the entire series. She states that Eve wanted to play Metro, but that doesn't matter as players are never allowed to "agree" on different maps to play that are not in the map pool.
She decided she did not want to do game 3 again, and forfeited.
All that needed to happen was game 3 not being played at all. Retroactively making a ruling on a game that already happened is dumb and is the tournament's fault.
On April 29 2012 05:17 pHaRSiDE wrote: We did not disqualify her Series as a whole. The mappool was updated on News and Rules on ESL site and this was mappool pasted to all the girls in the channel several times: Day Break LE - MLG Metalopolis - Shattered Temple - Shakuras Plateau - Entombed Valley - Tal'darim Altar LE - GSL Dual Sight - MLG Antiga Shipyard -Ohana LE
All that needed to happen was a regame of game 3. Not the entire series. She states that Eve wanted to play Metro, but that doesn't matter as players are never allowed to "agree" on different maps to play that are not in the map pool.
She decided she did not want to do game 3 again, and forfeited.
All that needed to happen was game 3 not being played at all. Retroactively making a ruling on a game that already happened is dumb and is the tournament's fault.
Thats interesting, so what do we do about games that are not streamed, and its IMPOSSIBLE for us to know what map they played until they upload the replay afterwards?
The only time limit that exist for administration to react to a mistake is before the player starts their next opponent in brackets. Aurora had no started any games yet with Pandii when we caught the mistake. To claim that we have to just turn a blind eye to it and allow an illegal move is MORE dumb and would be EVEN MORE our fault.
And to be clear, no its not the tournaments fault they played on the wrong map, when the map pool is given to all the players several times. I don't understand why people keep assuming these players don't have/ don't know the map pool.
I guess if two players agree to play zealot frenzy I am suppose to allow that too? Its a map isn't it? Everyone's frustration seems to be stemming from the fact the game was streamed. Streaming does not make it all of a sudden legal to play illegal maps. I don't know how else to say that.
Was it caught later than usual for a streamed match? Yes, but it was not caught later than an unstreamed match and later than what ESL would allow to correct.
The tournment was entertaining!! The only 2 downsides was downtime and lack of mods for the troll filled chat. Unfornately Trolls are everywhere and mods want to watch games to not just babysit immature people.
On April 30 2012 00:03 S4KuR4 wrote: Just wanted to thank Pharside for organizing this awesome tourney and congratulate both Livinkpink and Zander for their awesome casting
I agree. It was a really good tournament and I loved the caster.
On April 30 2012 07:32 MastaMp3 wrote: The tournment was entertaining!! The only 2 downsides was downtime and lack of mods for the troll filled chat. Unfornately Trolls are everywhere and mods want to watch games to not just babysit immature people.
For your info, I modded the chat for more than 6 hours (until 3am for EU time) and it was really difficult.. I almost didn't watch any of the games, didn't talk that much in the chat and my head really hurted for focusing only on the chat... furthermore it's really hard to ban when 10+ people cries and 10+ people trolls and 10+ people tell their lives using chat space for nothing xD.. even if I keep going up the chat to clean it up, it keeps moving up cause people are spamming too fast, sounds stupid but it's hard then to click on the buttons XD Moreover I discovered in the end that I could clear the entire chat, I didn't see any of those options at the begining, maybe it was buggy, so next time I know when it goes super crazy I'll slow mode + clear chat Also, you should ask the admin if you can't help us next time, help is always appreciated
On April 30 2012 07:32 MastaMp3 wrote: The tournment was entertaining!! The only 2 downsides was downtime and lack of mods for the troll filled chat. Unfornately Trolls are everywhere and mods want to watch games to not just babysit immature people.
For your info, I modded the chat for more than 6 hours (until 3am for EU time) and it was really difficult.. I almost didn't watch any of the games, didn't talk that much in the chat and my head really hurted for focusing only on the chat... furthermore it's really hard to ban when 10+ people cries and 10+ people trolls and 10+ people tell their lives using chat space for nothing xD.. even if I keep going up the chat to clean it up, it keeps moving up cause people are spamming too fast, sounds stupid but it's hard then to click on the buttons XD Moreover I discovered in the end that I could clear the entire chat, I didn't see any of those options at the begining, maybe it was buggy, so next time I know when it goes super crazy I'll slow mode + clear chat Also, you should ask the admin if you can't help us next time, help is always appreciated
I understand it isnt easy with at least several hundred people chatting & I meant no disrespect to the mods who tried thier best. The first several hours had alot of anti scarlett trolls in the high numbers and kept bringing more trolls in. Didnt know who the admin was or I would have asked to help.