|
On September 17 2015 11:06 Sufficiency wrote:
Sanders feels like a terrible president to me =/ way too populists.
I think the real problem is that Clinton feels bad. Who are the other candidates?
FEEL THE BERN!
No seriously, Sanders is FAR from populist. The political atmosphere in the US has shifted right for a long time. So of course it stands out when there is actually a left leaning politician vying for presidency instead of center-right/far-right.
Oh and Sanders is one of the few with a great voting record whilst in Senate. https://votesmart.org/candidate/key-votes/27110/bernie-sanders#.VfpovfRi4yw . Trump & Sanders are the only ones not bending over and letting corporate America do their business. The difference between them is that Sanders has been saying the same shit for decades, and Trump used to be a Clinton supporter. Sanders even was a Civil Rights activist back in the 60's.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/tkzq8p9.jpg)
|
Bernie Sanders is absolutely populist. I don't understand how he doesn't fit that category.
|
On September 17 2015 16:26 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
Bernie Sanders is absolutely populist. I don't understand how he doesn't fit that category.
I have some negative connotations with the populist term, so that might be why I don't feel like that fits him.
It's because of Geert Wilders.
*also I don't feel like Bernie is changing is views according to what the populace wants. Rather, he wants the best for his people and tries to make that work. There is a slight difference there.
|
On September 17 2015 16:21 Doctorbeat wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2015 11:06 Sufficiency wrote:
Sanders feels like a terrible president to me =/ way too populists.
I think the real problem is that Clinton feels bad. Who are the other candidates? FEEL THE BERN! No seriously, Sanders is FAR from populist. The political atmosphere in the US has shifted right for a long time. So of course it stands out when there is actually a left leaning politician vying for presidency instead of center-right/far-right. Oh and Sanders is one of the few with a great voting record whilst in Senate. https://votesmart.org/candidate/key-votes/27110/bernie-sanders#.VfpovfRi4yw . Trump & Sanders are the only ones not bending over and letting corporate America do their business. The difference between them is that Sanders has been saying the same shit for decades, and Trump used to be a Clinton supporter. Sanders even was a Civil Rights activist back in the 60's. + Show Spoiler +
That looks so ridiculously cherry picked... Or is clinton actually more right wing then both trump and bush?
|
On September 17 2015 17:40 killerdog wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2015 16:21 Doctorbeat wrote:On September 17 2015 11:06 Sufficiency wrote:
Sanders feels like a terrible president to me =/ way too populists.
I think the real problem is that Clinton feels bad. Who are the other candidates? FEEL THE BERN! No seriously, Sanders is FAR from populist. The political atmosphere in the US has shifted right for a long time. So of course it stands out when there is actually a left leaning politician vying for presidency instead of center-right/far-right. Oh and Sanders is one of the few with a great voting record whilst in Senate. https://votesmart.org/candidate/key-votes/27110/bernie-sanders#.VfpovfRi4yw . Trump & Sanders are the only ones not bending over and letting corporate America do their business. The difference between them is that Sanders has been saying the same shit for decades, and Trump used to be a Clinton supporter. Sanders even was a Civil Rights activist back in the 60's. + Show Spoiler + That looks so ridiculously cherry picked... Or is clinton actually more right wing then both trump and bush?
Clinton is pretty hawkish and for a European would be fairly right wing. The differences between her and Trump/Bush would probably be their opinions on Obamacare, social security, gun control, etc.
|
Czech Republic11293 Posts
On September 17 2015 16:54 Doctorbeat wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2015 16:26 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
Bernie Sanders is absolutely populist. I don't understand how he doesn't fit that category. I have some negative connotations with the populist term, so that might be why I don't feel like that fits him. It's because of Geert Wilders. *also I don't feel like Bernie is changing is views according to what the populace wants. Rather, he wants the best for his people and tries to make that work. There is a slight difference there.
I've got positive connotations with term populist because of Caesar
what's more populist than a little bit of dictatorship
actually, why would anyone think that private prisons are a good idea. Or not a bad idea. Isn't it generally recognized as a bad idea?
|
On September 17 2015 17:43 Doctorbeat wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2015 17:40 killerdog wrote:On September 17 2015 16:21 Doctorbeat wrote:On September 17 2015 11:06 Sufficiency wrote:
Sanders feels like a terrible president to me =/ way too populists.
I think the real problem is that Clinton feels bad. Who are the other candidates? FEEL THE BERN! No seriously, Sanders is FAR from populist. The political atmosphere in the US has shifted right for a long time. So of course it stands out when there is actually a left leaning politician vying for presidency instead of center-right/far-right. Oh and Sanders is one of the few with a great voting record whilst in Senate. https://votesmart.org/candidate/key-votes/27110/bernie-sanders#.VfpovfRi4yw . Trump & Sanders are the only ones not bending over and letting corporate America do their business. The difference between them is that Sanders has been saying the same shit for decades, and Trump used to be a Clinton supporter. Sanders even was a Civil Rights activist back in the 60's. + Show Spoiler + That looks so ridiculously cherry picked... Or is clinton actually more right wing then both trump and bush? Clinton is pretty hawkish and for a European would be fairly right wing. The differences between her and Trump/Bush would probably be their opinions on Obamacare, social security, gun control, etc.
Like i said, cherry picked. They took all the things where clinton looks right wing and ignored all the things where she's leftist...
Not saying she's lefter then sanders but when they're that blatantly cherry picking it doesn't really show anything other then propaganda
|
As an outside man, every single presidential candidate you guys have look awful. It's like you picking the least awful option instead of someone being truly good/great. Trump seems the most sane republican too. All hail trump. At the end of the day isn't it more important who's in Parliament than the president? Thought things are all fucked up because both parties just stonewall each other regardless of merit at the highest level so only the ground level morons are doing any change.
|
On September 17 2015 12:22 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2015 11:35 jcarlsoniv wrote:On September 17 2015 11:06 Sufficiency wrote:
Sanders feels like a terrible president to me =/ way too populists.
I think the real problem is that Clinton feels bad. Who are the other candidates? I'd actually be interested in why you think he'd be a terrible president. I can understand if you disagree with him on some/many things. But to say he'd be "terrible" makes me curious. He is popular because he is running on a populist platform. But I am actually in the opinion that the vast majority of the population does not know how to run a country. It's the tyranny of the majority (which your people desperately tried to prevent in the Constitution). My biggest issue with "populists", be it Sanders, Ron Paul, or most people from the NDP has to do with foreign policy though. They tend to have this isolationist stance, especially when it comes to the projection of power. The world is very complicated - you can't just shield your ears and pretend foreign issues are not the US's (or in NDP's case, Canada's) problems. Some of it is bad and people get killed - it sucks, but I happen to believe that's what it takes to be a Great Power and the citizens reap the benefit of living in a Great Power. Sorry if this sounds too Social Darwinist. Maybe I am a closet Nazi. Heh.
The citizens of this country are not reaping the benefits of continual war. Corporations designed to capitalize on constant fighting are doing well. Private prisons are doing well. Citizens are not.
Now, it's not that I support Sanders because I agree with everything he says and all positions he holds - I don't. But he is a politician with integrity and over 30 years of voting almost always on the "right side of things" (subject for debate, I'm sure).
I don't think his full foreign policy platform is out or built, but his position isn't that we should stick our fingers in our ears and pretend there aren't problems. It's that war should be the last option, not the first. We need to deal with the fallout of our last war. Veterans have gotten shaaaaaafted, people don't want to keep shipping family members off to wars that we're winning.
He's connecting with people because he's talking like a person. I hear him talk and think "damn, this guy is seriously fighting for the people". Even if some of his ideas are a bit left for my taste, he's talking about seriously important issues in our country that we need to address. He refuses to use SuperPACs, he has a consistent message, he is issues focused.
I'm not sure why "populist" automatically = bad. It's been a long time since someone has stood up with the people and actually had a chance. He's actually concerned with fixing problems rather than striving for an office of power and lining his pockets.
|
On September 17 2015 19:57 Scip wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2015 16:54 Doctorbeat wrote:On September 17 2015 16:26 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
Bernie Sanders is absolutely populist. I don't understand how he doesn't fit that category. I have some negative connotations with the populist term, so that might be why I don't feel like that fits him. It's because of Geert Wilders. *also I don't feel like Bernie is changing is views according to what the populace wants. Rather, he wants the best for his people and tries to make that work. There is a slight difference there. I've got positive connotations with term populist because of Caesar what's more populist than a little bit of dictatorship actually, why would anyone think that private prisons are a good idea. Or not a bad idea. Isn't it generally recognized as a bad idea?
Most people don't even know prisons have been privatized.
|
I'm sad no one knows Andy McKee apparently  Was waaaaay better than watching the debate. I'm just going to listen to some analysis and save myself from the pain. Did Kasich say anything interesting or ridiculous?
|
Most of the candidates have issues, with my primary issue with Sanders being on policy grounds (economic and foreign policy, mostly).
For myself, the biggest issues off the top of my head include his stance on TPP, jailing wall street execs for 2008 (lol), corporate tax rates, and NSA/Patriot Act policies, etc, with some lesser issues including minimum wage.
Seriously though, complaining about TPP outsourcing jerbs when you also support raising the corporate tax rate (something which most economists agree eliminating entirely is unequivocally good for the US economy and workers) irritates me, with proposals like his "federal minimum wage of $15.00" ultimately likely to have negligible effects on the working poor (because of corresponding price rises; the wage-cost of living balance won't change too much).
|
On September 17 2015 21:31 mordek wrote:I'm sad no one knows Andy McKee apparently Was waaaaay better than watching the debate. I'm just going to listen to some analysis and save myself from the pain. Did Kasich say anything interesting or ridiculous?
Kasich was pretty pragmatic. I don't hate listening to him speak.
Fiorina probably won some points for herself, but definitely went off the deep end a few times.
Rubio did decently, I thought.
I've read some people say Christie did well, but it's hard for me to look at him objectively cuz I know he's the scum of the earth.
It's a shame Rand Paul gets outshined by all the crazy on stage. I thought he did decently when he got to talk.
Jeb! actually did pretty decently I think. He started off very rigid and seemed uncomfortable, but found his stride somewhere in the middle. I still don't really want another Bush (Hugh[?] pointed out that all of his foreign advisers are the same as his brother and father), but I think as the dust settles Bush will look more reasonable than the remains of the GOP crazy.
I wanted to punch Cruz in his smug, camera-staring face.
|
On September 17 2015 22:07 Lord Tolkien wrote:
Most of the candidates have issues, with my primary issue with Sanders being on policy grounds (economic and foreign policy, mostly).
For myself, the biggest issues off the top of my head include his stance on TPP, jailing wall street execs for 2008 (lol), corporate tax rates, and NSA/Patriot Act policies, etc, with some lesser issues including minimum wage.
Seriously though, complaining about TPP outsourcing jerbs when you also support raising the corporate tax rate (something which most economists agree eliminating entirely is unequivocally good for the US economy and workers) irritates me, with proposals like his "federal minimum wage of $15.00" ultimately likely to have negligible effects on the working poor (because of corresponding price rises; the wage-cost of living balance won't change too much).
If it wouldn't change anything to corresponding price changes, then how has the cost of things gotten so out of whack?
I mean, Ghandi can comment on this, but I don't think things are overly expensive in his cushie McDo job land.
|
Bernie has nice positions, but there's a $17T (or whatever) price tag on it. His ideas for funding his programs are never gonna fly. I don't think the US is at a place where we'd be willing to find funding for it.
He's right on the issues, but pretty off on the solutions.
|
On September 17 2015 22:07 Lord Tolkien wrote:
Seriously though, complaining about TPP outsourcing jerbs when you also support raising the corporate tax rate (something which most economists agree eliminating entirely is unequivocally good for the US economy and workers) irritates me, with proposals like his "federal minimum wage of $15.00" ultimately likely to have negligible effects on the working poor (because of corresponding price rises; the wage-cost of living balance won't change too much).
As opposed to the current situation where wages have fallen horribly behind already increasing cost of living and inflation? I would actually love to see an analysis that shows prices rising so much that a wage increase is counterproductive - not being antagonistic, if you have one on hand, I'd be interested.
I'll admit I don't know a ton about the TPP, but from what I understand, while negotiations have all been behind closed doors (which I think they should be), corporate interests are able to influence its outcome. That seems concerning when you consider how little of the public interest is likely reflected behind that door.
I'm actually a bit surprised you mention his NSA/Patriot Act stance. I'd love to hear more about your opinion there.
On September 17 2015 22:25 ticklishmusic wrote:
He's right on the issues, but pretty off on the solutions.
Which I would much prefer over someone who's very wrong on the issues with mediocre (or non-existent) solutions. It's not like he's pretending he's a magical band aid for the country - he has ideas he believes in and fights for. As I said earlier, I don't agree with all of his solutions, but I agree with the issues he points at that need to be fixed.
He's someone who can have reasonable discourse with people. Even if his solutions aren't the ones that get in place, he would fight for the right direction.
|
On September 17 2015 22:20 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2015 22:07 Lord Tolkien wrote:
Most of the candidates have issues, with my primary issue with Sanders being on policy grounds (economic and foreign policy, mostly).
For myself, the biggest issues off the top of my head include his stance on TPP, jailing wall street execs for 2008 (lol), corporate tax rates, and NSA/Patriot Act policies, etc, with some lesser issues including minimum wage.
Seriously though, complaining about TPP outsourcing jerbs when you also support raising the corporate tax rate (something which most economists agree eliminating entirely is unequivocally good for the US economy and workers) irritates me, with proposals like his "federal minimum wage of $15.00" ultimately likely to have negligible effects on the working poor (because of corresponding price rises; the wage-cost of living balance won't change too much). If it wouldn't change anything to corresponding price changes, then how has the cost of things gotten so out of whack?I mean, Ghandi can comment on this, but I don't think things are overly expensive in his cushie McDo job land.
...Pardon? I'm not sure what you mean.
I mean, 1) he works in Chipotle, and 2) for a recent example, Chipotle raised their prices in San Francisco, which nearly correspond to minimum wage increases in the city there (iirc, it was ~10-15% increase in minimum wage and price levels, was not identical, but close). Again, artificially raising wages does not necessarily address the root causes of poverty in America, which is why I don't generally see it as a useful policy lever, and more as a political statement.
To address poverty, the main foci needs to be on 1) on dramatically improving the efficacy of the US safety net and welfare system and 2) a thorough reform of the US criminal justice and penal system (this is ESPECIALLY important, having known/worked with people who came out of it while working for a small social-service NP in DC), 3) reform of US drug policy, 4) new policies aimed at alleviating urban poverty and decay (I primarily blame Reagan and Clinton for these four issues), and 5) K-12 education reform and increasing higher education opportunities (including trade schools). Universalizing services, such as healthcare, is another step forward.
|
Isn't Sanders in favor of all five points you raised though?
Also I thought that studies have come out from the states that have instituted minimum wage increases that it's had basically no negative effect whatsoever.
I don't know much about TPP but in general the non Americans that I've heard talk about it hate it.
|
No one knows much about the TPP which is partly why so many people are against it. Only a handful of scary stuff has been leaked.
|
The chief arguments and criticisms against TPP are similar to that leveled against NAFTA, and yes, while major free trade agreements like NAFTA tend to produce painful short-term labor market shocks (in NAFTA's case, mostly for Mexican farmers), the effect, in employment and GDP, is positive in the long term.
http://www.cfr.org/trade/naftas-economic-impact/p15790
Which reminds me. One of my late professors, Robert Pastor (rest his soul) was one of the most vocal proponents of North American integration, and I largely still agree with the basis of his thesis. You guys should totally buy his last book.
http://www.amazon.com/The-North-American-Idea-Continental/dp/0199934029
Oh. OH. Also his stance on GMOs and GMO labeling. I dislike anti-science movements.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
