On February 23 2015 03:57 Gahlo wrote: Or, or, or, he probably should have asked for permission in the first place.
He doesn't need permission to do any of what he's done. Azubu hold no rights to the league content, they only hold rights over the stream itself which isn't what he's broadcasting. Riot are essentially saying it's cyperbullying so they will take it down(Well Tryndamere is saying that) which doesn't make much sense.
Well the issue is that Faker, according to Tryndamere, has stated that he wants it taken down. Influenced by Azubu perhaps, but perfectly reasonable in which case, and that's now the basis on which Riot will take it down (it will be taken down, with that say-so).
The issue is that while Azubu doesn't have rights to the league content, RIOT does, and the issue of a Spectator stream is somewhat hazy, especially if the stream is garnering profits. This guy isn't (or claims not to), but that doesn't perclude another streamer from doing so (through donations, if not partnership etc.), and then that becomes a major copyright issue (since you're not publishing your own content of League [which Riot supports wholeheartedly], but profiting off someone else's games). Imagine, say, someone is streaming your games via spectator without your permission, and getting money from donators. He's not playing in the game, but is profiting off it. It becomes more difficult if he's doing so when you yourself are streaming and potentially poaching viewers and revenue. This guy attempts not to, and provides a link to Faker's stream when he's on, but again, doesn't perclude someone from being more unscrupulous.
In a business sense, it's concerning for both Twitch.tv and Azubu because it means their contracts for players to stream on their sites are diluted in value (a spectator stream on a separate site still means that their competitor gains profits, even if the guy streaming the spectation isn't), and puts them at risk for copyright infringement (which is why all streaming/video sharing services are so zealous in following up on DMCA removal). It can be concerning to the streamers if there's a very real threat of poaching viewers and revenue, and it's concerning to Riot since they need to be assholes when they have to intervene and do shit like take down SpectateFaker, as they're ultimately the copyright holders, to protect (pro) players and their streams.
I imagine Riot ToS is going to change regarding this issue, and requires in-client content to be published only if you yourself participate in the game, or with the permission of at least one player. Which prevents this edge case from spiraling further.
While I get your overall point I found this paragraph a little strange. There's a whole industry around publishing content on platforms that don't come from your own games(eg. youtube videos of "top players" etc.), how is that any different from someone streaming a game that one isn't in or merely uploading full games to youtube as "content".
Secondly the logic of "poaching" viewers and revenue is akin to what game publishers cry about privacy stealing their revenue. We know there that line of thinking doesn't quite make sense. There's nothing to say anyone watching the twitch stream would ever watch the azubu stream of faker himself. If people would never be buying the product then it's not loss of revenue. There may be interlap where people that DO watch on Azubu now suddenly start watching on Twitch but again it's impossible to actually quantify if this happens. This story is very similar to the outcry about DotaTV years ago. The answer to that is still to create a product that people want to watch. It's as simple as that. If people want to watch a bland stream of a bot spectating over the actual player than you just have to up your product.
At the end of the day it's not about protecting players and their streams. No one would ever watch a spectateImaqtpie over the real product for instance. This is about Azubu throwing a fit that a spectateFaker stream gets more viewers than an Azubu stream.
On February 23 2015 04:45 crimethinking wrote: I'm thinking about collecting esports jerseys but most of them make me looking like a mobile billboard when I wear them. So far I only find Titan, VP, Na`Vi and Empire jerseys good, having either small or no sponsor logos. The Korean jerseys are decent too.
the problem with korean jerseys is a lot of them change every year so why bother.
On February 23 2015 04:45 crimethinking wrote: I'm thinking about collecting esports jerseys but most of them make me looking like a mobile billboard when I wear them. So far I only find Titan, VP, Na`Vi and Empire jerseys good, having either small or no sponsor logos. The Korean jerseys are decent too.
the problem with korean jerseys is a lot of them change every year so why bother.
Well it's like football jerseys, I just don't buy a new one every year. One well designed shirt is enough.
On February 23 2015 05:21 MoonBear wrote: If you guys don't own one already, I definitely recommend the TL Hoodie. There's also a new batch of the sexy white TL jacket coming soon
On February 23 2015 05:21 MoonBear wrote: If you guys don't own one already, I definitely recommend the TL Hoodie. There's also a new batch of the sexy white TL jacket coming soon
Jacket so expensive :/ (but priced fairly appropriately imo)
On February 23 2015 05:21 MoonBear wrote: If you guys don't own one already, I definitely recommend the TL Hoodie. There's also a new batch of the sexy white TL jacket coming soon
On February 23 2015 05:11 Uldridge wrote: Sorry to be that guy, ketara, but ->>>>QQ therapy, you know where to find it.
Yeah don't be that guy, nobody likes that guy.
But becoming the guy is the only thing I know I'm good at! And if you need some comfort words: You can do it baby! Just believe in yourself. No worries, be happy. A carefree game is a carefree win. An apple a day keeps elo hell away. Hey, it could be worse right, you could start in bronze and have to work your way up.
But to reiterate: don't make me become the guy, you won't like me when I become to guy.
So, in other news, I sent Riot a ticket and asked about the whole demotion thing, because I thought in order to drop an entire division (Diamond > Plat) your MMR had to go all the way down to plat 5, and they said that's not how it works now, it's just the same as dropping tiers. So you can drop once your MMR hits plat 1.
On February 23 2015 05:21 MoonBear wrote: If you guys don't own one already, I definitely recommend the TL Hoodie. There's also a new batch of the sexy white TL jacket coming soon
Jacket so expensive :/ (but priced fairly appropriately imo)
On February 23 2015 05:21 MoonBear wrote: If you guys don't own one already, I definitely recommend the TL Hoodie. There's also a new batch of the sexy white TL jacket coming soon
On February 23 2015 05:27 Ketara wrote: So, in other news, I sent Riot a ticket and asked about the whole demotion thing, because I thought in order to drop an entire division (Diamond > Plat) your MMR had to go all the way down to plat 5, and they said that's not how it works now, it's just the same as dropping tiers. So you can drop once your MMR hits plat 1.
So, I guess that's a thing. I'm all sad about it.
You sent in a ticket...because you dropped leagues? Dude...
On February 23 2015 05:27 Ketara wrote: So, in other news, I sent Riot a ticket and asked about the whole demotion thing, because I thought in order to drop an entire division (Diamond > Plat) your MMR had to go all the way down to plat 5, and they said that's not how it works now, it's just the same as dropping tiers. So you can drop once your MMR hits plat 1.
So, I guess that's a thing. I'm all sad about it.
Sending ticket for dropping a league?
lol, the system is working as intended, it's telling you that you suck worse than you got placed.
On February 23 2015 05:27 Ketara wrote: So, in other news, I sent Riot a ticket and asked about the whole demotion thing, because I thought in order to drop an entire division (Diamond > Plat) your MMR had to go all the way down to plat 5, and they said that's not how it works now, it's just the same as dropping tiers. So you can drop once your MMR hits plat 1.
So, I guess that's a thing. I'm all sad about it.
Why would you drop from Dia 5 to Plat 1 only when you are Plat 5? That doesn't make sense lol.
On February 23 2015 03:57 Gahlo wrote: Or, or, or, he probably should have asked for permission in the first place.
He doesn't need permission to do any of what he's done. Azubu hold no rights to the league content, they only hold rights over the stream itself which isn't what he's broadcasting. Riot are essentially saying it's cyperbullying so they will take it down(Well Tryndamere is saying that) which doesn't make much sense.
Well the issue is that Faker, according to Tryndamere, has stated that he wants it taken down. Influenced by Azubu perhaps, but perfectly reasonable in which case, and that's now the basis on which Riot will take it down (it will be taken down, with that say-so).
The issue is that while Azubu doesn't have rights to the league content, RIOT does, and the issue of a Spectator stream is somewhat hazy, especially if the stream is garnering profits. This guy isn't (or claims not to), but that doesn't perclude another streamer from doing so (through donations, if not partnership etc.), and then that becomes a major copyright issue (since you're not publishing your own content of League [which Riot supports wholeheartedly], but profiting off someone else's games). Imagine, say, someone is streaming your games via spectator without your permission, and getting money from donators. He's not playing in the game, but is profiting off it. It becomes more difficult if he's doing so when you yourself are streaming and potentially poaching viewers and revenue. This guy attempts not to, and provides a link to Faker's stream when he's on, but again, doesn't perclude someone from being more unscrupulous.
In a business sense, it's concerning for both Twitch.tv and Azubu because it means their contracts for players to stream on their sites are diluted in value (a spectator stream on a separate site still means that their competitor gains profits, even if the guy streaming the spectation isn't), and puts them at risk for copyright infringement (which is why all streaming/video sharing services are so zealous in following up on DMCA removal). It can be concerning to the streamers if there's a very real threat of poaching viewers and revenue, and it's concerning to Riot since they need to be assholes when they have to intervene and do shit like take down SpectateFaker, as they're ultimately the copyright holders, to protect (pro) players and their streams.
I imagine Riot ToS is going to change regarding this issue, and requires in-client content to be published only if you yourself participate in the game, or with the permission of at least one player. Which prevents this edge case from spiraling further.
While I get your overall point I found this paragraph a little strange. There's a whole industry around publishing content on platforms that don't come from your own games(eg. youtube videos of "top players" etc.), how is that any different from someone streaming a game that one isn't in or merely uploading full games to youtube as "content".
When using copyrighted content, there is "fair use". For stuff like "Top Plays of the Week" series, people submit the clips, usually of themselves, which is express permission given. Stuff like short "Zion Spartan makes an AWESOME play on stream" is a short clip of already-published content, which more or less falls under fair use and doesn't really interfere with or affect streamers. Running full streams of entire games can very well.
Secondly the logic of "poaching" viewers and revenue is akin to what game publishers cry about privacy stealing their revenue. We know there that line of thinking doesn't quite make sense. There's nothing to say anyone watching the twitch stream would ever watch the azubu stream of faker himself. If people would never be buying the product then it's not loss of revenue. There may be interlap where people that DO watch on Azubu now suddenly start watching on Twitch but again it's impossible to actually quantify if this happens. This story is very similar to the outcry about DotaTV years ago. The answer to that is still to create a product that people want to watch. It's as simple as that. If people want to watch a bland stream of a bot spectating over the actual player than you just have to up your product.
1) So what if someone streamed on Twitch and someone else was streaming spectator mode of your games ON Twitch? This isn't just a cross-platform issue.
2) Piracy is a terrible comparison, since it's a difference between paying customers and non-paying customers, and some people may not be able to afford the price barrier of entry (which is kind of inane if you can afford a computer but not a game, but I digress). Here, the streams are free. This is no reasonable barrier to watch Faker's streams, or even to watch spectator mode games of Faker yourself on your own league client. None. There's no actual reason to do so other than "I hate Azubuuuuu" (superficial at best), and even less if Faker were streaming on Twitch. Moreover, Piracy implies that the pirates aren't making any commercial gain, which WITH STREAMING, is a very valid concern for everyone involved. Plus streams operate above board, and can very well be easily persecuted and taken down.
Also, 3:13.
I watched SpectateFaker when it first came out and Faker wasn't streaming, and op.gg or Riot API wasn't out. Actual barrier of entry to watching Faker's SoloQ game.
On February 23 2015 05:27 Ketara wrote: So, in other news, I sent Riot a ticket and asked about the whole demotion thing, because I thought in order to drop an entire division (Diamond > Plat) your MMR had to go all the way down to plat 5, and they said that's not how it works now, it's just the same as dropping tiers. So you can drop once your MMR hits plat 1.
So, I guess that's a thing. I'm all sad about it.
HOly shit, really?
Dude nowhere is safe anymore. That sense of security and stress relief when you make diamond is completely gone now ._.
On February 23 2015 05:43 Numy wrote: Write to the game company lol. How naive can you be.
If that's your only comment, then I think I've made my point. The video was there for fluff on the morality of piracy. Even though I already stated that it's a terrible comparison anyways.
I'm pretty sure you can stream whatever the hell you want and make a profit on it even if it is another player until the company tells you to stop. Riot don't have to do it but they'll probably do it as a courtesy.
On February 23 2015 05:27 Ketara wrote: So, in other news, I sent Riot a ticket and asked about the whole demotion thing, because I thought in order to drop an entire division (Diamond > Plat) your MMR had to go all the way down to plat 5, and they said that's not how it works now, it's just the same as dropping tiers. So you can drop once your MMR hits plat 1.
So, I guess that's a thing. I'm all sad about it.
HOly shit, really?
Dude nowhere is safe anymore. That sense of security and stress relief when you make diamond is completely gone now ._.
zzzzzz
What the fuck? Not being able to fall out of division is fucking stupid. If your MMR is no longer there, you no longer deserve to be there.
On February 23 2015 05:48 Holyflare wrote: I'm pretty sure you can stream whatever the hell you want and make a profit on it even if it is another player until the company tells you to stop. Riot don't have to do it but they'll probably do it as a courtesy.
At present yes, but I expect changes to the Riot ToS that prevents you from doing so in a similar manner as SpectateFaker, eg. a bot that streams one player's games, without his consent, constantly.
Expecting a direct statement from Faker on this by tomorrow morning. It's nighttime in Korea, and then the stream dies.
EPT
