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Russian Federation40190 Posts
Clem winning this game is actually kinda insane.
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dammit just a few mistakes from herO
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On August 18 2024 22:51 lolfail9001 wrote:
Clem winning this game is actually kinda insane.
He managed to exhaust the Robo units and gw still sucks in situations Like this.
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How do we make herO consistently play like he does when he's behind?
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Best game of tournament so far. Can't even be mad even if I root for herO. This is peak PvT.
herO should consider moving away from Disruptors now. It will just never work against Clem.
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Northern Ireland27351 Posts
On August 18 2024 22:28 Captain Peabody wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2024 22:20 WombaT wrote:On August 18 2024 21:59 Perceivere wrote:On August 18 2024 21:46 Brutaxilos wrote:On August 18 2024 21:45 darklycid wrote:
On Point serral is honestly Just boring If you arent a fanboy. Yeaa... his dominance makes the pro scene less exciting. Funny. When was the last time anyone said this about Flash? And yet, many have voiced their opinion that Flash was even more dominant. I love the bias and salt around here. The tears get more delicious by the day. Some people find it boring, some find excellence inspiring. There’s plenty of BW fans on these forums who’ve said they’d probably enjoy ASL without an in-shape Flash because he’s so strong. Plenty who also want to see the BW GOAT do his thing. Not everyone is salty and crying lmao. I think a wider issue in SC2 at present is there’s just so few people who can actually beat Serral. Flash was a monster, but he could lose. He had rivalries. What set him apart from his peers was that extra level of consistency versus the field. Obviously versus Jaedong being one of the most famous, effort famously beating him in a Starleague final. Towards BW dying down, guys like Fantasy and Jangbi took him out. Bisu beat him in an epic final set of the last Proleague going. BW experts can correct or expand if they want! Maru’s record sticks him as a pretty solid #2, clear of the field for some time and Serral just smashes him. You’re left with like Dark, Clem or Reynor on a good day, maybe? But those guys aren’t always locks to make it deep either, so if they lose early you’re like ‘hm there goes the chance of Serral actually losing’ Rag and Solar beating him in big tournies was so notable because it’s so increasingly rare. Whether it’s Serral’s sheer excellence or the field lacking a bit of depth, or a combo, it can be a bit monotonous. Also SC2 does tend to do more consistent, reliable formats to protect the big guys than BW did, so Serral may have to be beaten twice, or thrice as in this tournament! Play out of your mind and take out Flash, he’s out. Do the same with Serral and he frequently returns. Like one of those boss battles you get the health bar finally depleted, let out a sigh of relief only for that bar to start filling up and you be left preparing to face phase 2. I’m a big admirer of the guy, but I do get where people are coming from too. I will give Serral some credit though for innovating his play very well, adapting to the other players who pushed him, throwing in more all-ins, little touches, style plays, etc. it's gotten more fun at least watching Serral by a big amount since his first peak.
In addition to his other, ridiculous skills indeed he uses basically everything in the Zerg toolkit too now.
I remember since the game released you had players considered ‘creative’ who did all this cute stuff and had interesting ideas but maybe lacked the raw mechanics, and your standard players played well, more standard and have those mechanics.
I’d long wondered what it’d look like if a top, top player just took all of these ideas and cute tricks and implement them. You know, sometimes when even a lowly peon says ‘why don’t the pros do x?’ they’re not always off the mark.
Serral’s seemingly been workshopping just that this last year, and the results are impressive. And not just mixing in more brutal timings, but all the cute stuff.
Using overlords to drop creep just to be that little extra annoying if a player sends just a worker to build an expo for example. Small, won’t win you a game but it’s a nice annoying thing to do in a chaotic slugfest.
My favourite, possibly because I’d personally been on this train for years is using nyduses on outlying bases to evacuate (usually workers). It works amazingly well, isn’t a huge cost outlay and doesn’t take crazy APM to implement. Especially given Zergs need those workers, they can’t just take bases in rough positions and mule them. So instead of Terran killing your base and your entire worker line who’s trying to escape through stimmed bio, and replacing all that, you just stick another hatch and move them back.
And lots of little other things besides.
There was a time where I felt that Reynor’s A game was pretty much as good as Serral’s, he just couldn’t bring it as often. Now I think Serral’s workshopping has elevated what he can bring to the table beyond even that. It’s bloody impressive!
Also Serral is doing this from a base where he was already the number one guy. You may not get there, but it’s easier to chase the top guy, find areas you need to improve, than it is as the top guy to set a whole new standard. In the sense that in athletics it’s easier to break a world record because someone has shown it is possible, than do a DuPlantis and set multiple new ones, each a step into the unknown
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On August 18 2024 22:49 Perceivere wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2024 22:37 Nasigil1 wrote:On August 18 2024 21:59 Perceivere wrote:On August 18 2024 21:46 Brutaxilos wrote:On August 18 2024 21:45 darklycid wrote:
On Point serral is honestly Just boring If you arent a fanboy. Yeaa... his dominance makes the pro scene less exciting. Funny. When was the last time anyone said this about Flash? And yet, many have voiced their opinion that Flash was even more dominant. I love the bias and salt around here. The tears get more delicious by the day. You sound like someone that just don't know Flash at all. "Flash destroyed Starcraft" was absolutely a saying back in the day. People was complaining his inpenetrable defensive style make the game boring. And that was during the time where there are hundreds of pro players and dozens of teams, the peak of esports competitive scene. Serral is the GOAT of SC2, but let's no push past the boundary. I'll push past your arbitrary boundary if I want to. Had he never reached anywhere near the 91% match winrate Serral has been at for the last 18 months? "Peak of esports" at a time when SC was the only esport...lol. I think you mean peak of SC. That's also arguable. To me, the peak occurs at where the top talents peak, and there still exists plenty of money to be made in the scene. More mediocre players in an inflated player pool means nothing to me. You double the little league and minor league of baseball, that doesn't mean there's any more Ohtanis, Harpers, and Judge.
And when did the top talent peak in sc2? Certainly not now where only 2 out of the all time best 10 players are left as top competitors according to Miz' list (I know Rogue and soO are technically back again but not really)
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Absolutely insane game by both of them.... Kinda feel like at some point hero needed to get storm maybe. But idk I feel like Clem playing like this must feel unstoppable
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On August 18 2024 22:54 Nasigil1 wrote:
Best game of tournament so far. Can't even be mad even if I root for herO. This is peak PvT.
herO should consider moving away from Disruptors now. It will just never work against Clem.
Showtime vs Gumi g1 still exists.
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On August 18 2024 22:56 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2024 22:49 Perceivere wrote:On August 18 2024 22:37 Nasigil1 wrote:On August 18 2024 21:59 Perceivere wrote:On August 18 2024 21:46 Brutaxilos wrote:On August 18 2024 21:45 darklycid wrote:
On Point serral is honestly Just boring If you arent a fanboy. Yeaa... his dominance makes the pro scene less exciting. Funny. When was the last time anyone said this about Flash? And yet, many have voiced their opinion that Flash was even more dominant. I love the bias and salt around here. The tears get more delicious by the day. You sound like someone that just don't know Flash at all. "Flash destroyed Starcraft" was absolutely a saying back in the day. People was complaining his inpenetrable defensive style make the game boring. And that was during the time where there are hundreds of pro players and dozens of teams, the peak of esports competitive scene. Serral is the GOAT of SC2, but let's no push past the boundary. I'll push past your arbitrary boundary if I want to. Had he never reached anywhere near the 91% match winrate Serral has been at for the last 18 months? "Peak of esports" at a time when SC was the only esport...lol. I think you mean peak of SC. That's also arguable. To me, the peak occurs at where the top talents peak, and there still exists plenty of money to be made in the scene. More mediocre players in an inflated player pool means nothing to me. You double the little league and minor league of baseball, that doesn't mean there's any more Ohtanis, Harpers, and Judge. And when did the top talent peak in sc2? Certainly not now where only 2 out of the all time best 10 players are left as top competitors according to Miz' list (I know Rogue and soO are technically back again but not really)
Its all about absolute vs relative in These discussion i feel, on an absolute scale Players are better rn i'd say, on a relative scale Not really (also its way less competitive).
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On August 18 2024 22:58 darklycid wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2024 22:56 Charoisaur wrote:On August 18 2024 22:49 Perceivere wrote:On August 18 2024 22:37 Nasigil1 wrote:On August 18 2024 21:59 Perceivere wrote:On August 18 2024 21:46 Brutaxilos wrote:On August 18 2024 21:45 darklycid wrote:
On Point serral is honestly Just boring If you arent a fanboy. Yeaa... his dominance makes the pro scene less exciting. Funny. When was the last time anyone said this about Flash? And yet, many have voiced their opinion that Flash was even more dominant. I love the bias and salt around here. The tears get more delicious by the day. You sound like someone that just don't know Flash at all. "Flash destroyed Starcraft" was absolutely a saying back in the day. People was complaining his inpenetrable defensive style make the game boring. And that was during the time where there are hundreds of pro players and dozens of teams, the peak of esports competitive scene. Serral is the GOAT of SC2, but let's no push past the boundary. I'll push past your arbitrary boundary if I want to. Had he never reached anywhere near the 91% match winrate Serral has been at for the last 18 months? "Peak of esports" at a time when SC was the only esport...lol. I think you mean peak of SC. That's also arguable. To me, the peak occurs at where the top talents peak, and there still exists plenty of money to be made in the scene. More mediocre players in an inflated player pool means nothing to me. You double the little league and minor league of baseball, that doesn't mean there's any more Ohtanis, Harpers, and Judge. And when did the top talent peak in sc2? Certainly not now where only 2 out of the all time best 10 players are left as top competitors according to Miz' list (I know Rogue and soO are technically back again but not really) Its all about absolute vs relative in These discussion i feel, on an absolute scale Players are better rn i'd say, on a relative scale Not really (also its way less competitive).
Even on an absolute scale I don't think the average player is better then let's say 5 years ago. Serral is, but Dark for example was clearly playing better 5 years ago and he thinks that too
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Wtf herO, anti timing as well :/
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On August 18 2024 23:02 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2024 22:58 darklycid wrote:On August 18 2024 22:56 Charoisaur wrote:On August 18 2024 22:49 Perceivere wrote:On August 18 2024 22:37 Nasigil1 wrote:On August 18 2024 21:59 Perceivere wrote:On August 18 2024 21:46 Brutaxilos wrote:On August 18 2024 21:45 darklycid wrote:
On Point serral is honestly Just boring If you arent a fanboy. Yeaa... his dominance makes the pro scene less exciting. Funny. When was the last time anyone said this about Flash? And yet, many have voiced their opinion that Flash was even more dominant. I love the bias and salt around here. The tears get more delicious by the day. You sound like someone that just don't know Flash at all. "Flash destroyed Starcraft" was absolutely a saying back in the day. People was complaining his inpenetrable defensive style make the game boring. And that was during the time where there are hundreds of pro players and dozens of teams, the peak of esports competitive scene. Serral is the GOAT of SC2, but let's no push past the boundary. I'll push past your arbitrary boundary if I want to. Had he never reached anywhere near the 91% match winrate Serral has been at for the last 18 months? "Peak of esports" at a time when SC was the only esport...lol. I think you mean peak of SC. That's also arguable. To me, the peak occurs at where the top talents peak, and there still exists plenty of money to be made in the scene. More mediocre players in an inflated player pool means nothing to me. You double the little league and minor league of baseball, that doesn't mean there's any more Ohtanis, Harpers, and Judge. And when did the top talent peak in sc2? Certainly not now where only 2 out of the all time best 10 players are left as top competitors according to Miz' list (I know Rogue and soO are technically back again but not really) Its all about absolute vs relative in These discussion i feel, on an absolute scale Players are better rn i'd say, on a relative scale Not really (also its way less competitive). Even on an absolute scale I don't think the average player is better then let's say 5 years ago. Serral is, but Dark for example was clearly playing better 5 years ago and he thinks that too
Mostly the Younger Players are, the older ones have age showing.
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In 2024 it's the Koreans who go full foreigner it seems
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United Kingdom38257 Posts
Oooh herO finally took a good big fight!
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It's insane how herO looked so much better than Spirit, Gumiho and Cure, but Clem is just so much better than them.
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EPT
