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On June 01 2024 16:58 tigera6 wrote:
So Reynor has a really good shot to qualify for EWC then, his bracket all the way to Oliveira are very do-able. And assuming that Maru/Dark/Serral taking care of their business, there will be 3 added spots from the global ranking.
Pretty sure Reynor qualified even if he scored 0 points at this tournament. But him taking a direct seed would be good for his confidence.
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On June 01 2024 15:13 goldensail wrote:
Just watched the Serral vs. herO game, LOL what did I say about lurkers? Zerg has a way-too-powerful AOE arsenal including lurkers and infestors that can be tech-switched quickly. Put them in the hands of someone like Serral and you have armageddon for everyone else.
Serral won that game with his ridiculous army management more than anything else.
Lurkers should look strong when you've been able to perfectly defend and manage the game against an opponent whose playing a lower-tech momentum style.
But hey yeah lets nerf lurkers, maybe we can get Zerg to 15% GM and have 70% protoss at the lower pro level. That could be really cool.
Really rough road for Rogue - literally any other bracket section and I think he has a real shot.
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Northern Ireland27305 Posts
PvZ has been in a decent spot for quite a while now, Serral’s just got a ZvP on a whole other level entirely. Possibly the strongest single matchup we’ve seen in SC2’s time
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On June 01 2024 03:00 JJH777 wrote:
Too bad for Stats. Also I really wish they would actually take the negative feedback into account and revert back the old Dreamhack Open format from 2022 and earlier or create a new format altogether. Winning 2 bo3s to go to ro8 while Open Bracket players have to go through like 10+ rounds of bo5 play to get to an equal point is just anti competition. We could run 100 of these and I doubt an open bracket player would win one.
I completely agree. It's actually kind of insane. It's less problematic to me that the open bracket players needing to win 3 bo3 + 3 bo5 to make ro8 than that a player can win just two bo3s and make playoffs.
Also, the choice to do only three matches on Sunday is equally bad. Should have done Ro8 onwards.
On June 01 2024 14:40 Kreuger wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2024 13:49 JJH777 wrote:
Does that mean we'll get the winner of herO/Clem/Gumi vs Maru? That'd be sad was hoping for a 3rd herO vs Maru finals. From my understanding it should be yeah
Could very well be a remarkably bad tournament for Protoss, again. Decent chance we don't get even one Protoss in Ro8 and then if this is the case Maru will likely bop herO.
In other news, I really thought Serral was going to take a hit with military service. Clearly not haha.
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On June 01 2024 18:46 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2024 03:00 JJH777 wrote:
Too bad for Stats. Also I really wish they would actually take the negative feedback into account and revert back the old Dreamhack Open format from 2022 and earlier or create a new format altogether. Winning 2 bo3s to go to ro8 while Open Bracket players have to go through like 10+ rounds of bo5 play to get to an equal point is just anti competition. We could run 100 of these and I doubt an open bracket player would win one. I completely agree. It's actually kind of insane. It's less problematic to me that the open bracket players needing to win 3 bo3 + 3 bo5 to make ro8 than that a player can win just two bo3s and make playoffs. Also, the choice to do only three matches on Sunday is equally bad. Should have done Ro8 onwards. Show nested quote +On June 01 2024 14:40 Kreuger wrote:On June 01 2024 13:49 JJH777 wrote:
Does that mean we'll get the winner of herO/Clem/Gumi vs Maru? That'd be sad was hoping for a 3rd herO vs Maru finals. From my understanding it should be yeah Could very well be a remarkably bad tournament for Protoss, again. Decent chance we don't get even one Protoss in Ro8 and then if this is the case Maru will likely bop herO. In other news, I really thought Serral was going to take a hit with military service. Clearly not haha.
Of course Finish military service is different from Korean military service. But looks like he may get the support or at least a relief from the government to spend hours practising for programming career instead of fully focus on military training, not like what the Koreans did, right?
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On June 01 2024 18:03 WombaT wrote:
PvZ has been in a decent spot for quite a while now, Serral’s just got a ZvP on a whole other level entirely. Possibly the strongest single matchup we’ve seen in SC2’s time
Serral's ZvP is just above everyone else. No other Zerg player can beat him in that matchup as highly confident as he was.
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On June 01 2024 18:03 WombaT wrote:
PvZ has been in a decent spot for quite a while now, Serral’s just got a ZvP on a whole other level entirely. Possibly the strongest single matchup we’ve seen in SC2’s time
Yeah think so Too its Just funny when people (i guess zergs) recently tried to yap about zvp being toss favored now and at this Event its 23-9 for zergs so far 
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On June 01 2024 19:37 darklycid wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2024 18:03 WombaT wrote:
PvZ has been in a decent spot for quite a while now, Serral’s just got a ZvP on a whole other level entirely. Possibly the strongest single matchup we’ve seen in SC2’s time
Yeah think so Too its Just funny when people (i guess zergs) recently tried to yap about zvp being toss favored now and at this Event its 23-9 for zergs so far
They'll just say it's serral skewing the stats (while he played one zvp) or that one tournament is too small of a sample size
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On June 01 2024 19:46 lokol4890 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2024 19:37 darklycid wrote:On June 01 2024 18:03 WombaT wrote:
PvZ has been in a decent spot for quite a while now, Serral’s just got a ZvP on a whole other level entirely. Possibly the strongest single matchup we’ve seen in SC2’s time
Yeah think so Too its Just funny when people (i guess zergs) recently tried to yap about zvp being toss favored now and at this Event its 23-9 for zergs so far They'll just say it's serral skewing the stats (while he played one zvp) or that one tournament is too small of a sample size
He Played 2 zvps so He won 4 Maps, and If we Take him Out of Winner Stage zvps its at 7-7. I dont even think zvp is zerg favored rn (we'll have to wait more imo to See Trends Patch is still somewhat fresh), but when some ppl came in to declare protoss the favorite in the mu because after a Patch zerg struggled a Bit (Like they usually Always do) was quite fun.
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Northern Ireland27305 Posts
On June 01 2024 19:46 lokol4890 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2024 19:37 darklycid wrote:On June 01 2024 18:03 WombaT wrote:
PvZ has been in a decent spot for quite a while now, Serral’s just got a ZvP on a whole other level entirely. Possibly the strongest single matchup we’ve seen in SC2’s time
Yeah think so Too its Just funny when people (i guess zergs) recently tried to yap about zvp being toss favored now and at this Event its 23-9 for zergs so far They'll just say it's serral skewing the stats (while he played one zvp) or that one tournament is too small of a sample size
I mean to be fair tournies with open brackets do tend to have a fair few mismatches as well. Or even a Katowice where some regions are clearly stronger than others.
To the eye test it’s in a better spot than some of the nadirs we’ve seen in the past anyway.
Good players can somewhat trade quite well, the best PvZer seems to win a decent chunk, and the best ZvPer beats him.
Certainly not perfect but a damn sight better than times where you’d favour the upper echelons of Zergs against basically any Toss
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On June 01 2024 19:37 darklycid wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2024 18:03 WombaT wrote:
PvZ has been in a decent spot for quite a while now, Serral’s just got a ZvP on a whole other level entirely. Possibly the strongest single matchup we’ve seen in SC2’s time
Yeah think so Too its Just funny when people (i guess zergs) recently tried to yap about zvp being toss favored now and at this Event its 23-9 for zergs so far
TBF, a LOT of that is simply matchup logic. Dark stomping Trigger, Reynor and Serral stomping Nice. Rogue and Solar stomped some protoss in the total PvZvPvZ bracket. Scarlett smacked around Holden. The only obvious reverse example of that was Mixu vs Shadown, and I would generally not be anywhere near as confident about calling that in advance, and say it's balanced by Mixu stomping Zain. So that's about 8 of those matches where balance would have to be very far gone for the protoss to stand a chance. Meanwhile the zerg walkovers either got knocked out by terran or in mirrors.
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Northern Ireland27305 Posts
On June 01 2024 18:46 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2024 03:00 JJH777 wrote:
Too bad for Stats. Also I really wish they would actually take the negative feedback into account and revert back the old Dreamhack Open format from 2022 and earlier or create a new format altogether. Winning 2 bo3s to go to ro8 while Open Bracket players have to go through like 10+ rounds of bo5 play to get to an equal point is just anti competition. We could run 100 of these and I doubt an open bracket player would win one. I completely agree. It's actually kind of insane. It's less problematic to me that the open bracket players needing to win 3 bo3 + 3 bo5 to make ro8 than that a player can win just two bo3s and make playoffs. Also, the choice to do only three matches on Sunday is equally bad. Should have done Ro8 onwards. Show nested quote +On June 01 2024 14:40 Kreuger wrote:On June 01 2024 13:49 JJH777 wrote:
Does that mean we'll get the winner of herO/Clem/Gumi vs Maru? That'd be sad was hoping for a 3rd herO vs Maru finals. From my understanding it should be yeah Could very well be a remarkably bad tournament for Protoss, again. Decent chance we don't get even one Protoss in Ro8 and then if this is the case Maru will likely bop herO. In other news, I really thought Serral was going to take a hit with military service. Clearly not haha.
It’s a pretty brutal format, there should be some balance between circuit qualification and the open bracket that is a little less skewed.
Honestly I don’t think anyone except maybe Serral close to his best could conceivably navigate this format to win a tournament, and even then it would be a tall order.
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Isn't it cool that we didn't have much balance-discussions in the last few weeks, but the second Serral is "back" suddenly Zerg is OP again? Fascinating
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Is it for sure, that the winner of Hero vs. TBD has to play against maru?!
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PvZ on pro level is an extremely balanced matchup now that's determined almost purely on skill. Not sure what all these arguments are about.
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On June 01 2024 22:00 Balnazza wrote:
Isn't it cool that we didn't have much balance-discussions in the last few weeks, but the second Serral is "back" suddenly Zerg is OP again? Fascinating
Either that or TvP still Terran favored, considering we might have only 1 Protoss end up in the Ro8.
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Super hyped for a great day of games, see y'all in there!
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On June 01 2024 21:16 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2024 18:46 Pandain wrote:On June 01 2024 03:00 JJH777 wrote:
Too bad for Stats. Also I really wish they would actually take the negative feedback into account and revert back the old Dreamhack Open format from 2022 and earlier or create a new format altogether. Winning 2 bo3s to go to ro8 while Open Bracket players have to go through like 10+ rounds of bo5 play to get to an equal point is just anti competition. We could run 100 of these and I doubt an open bracket player would win one. I completely agree. It's actually kind of insane. It's less problematic to me that the open bracket players needing to win 3 bo3 + 3 bo5 to make ro8 than that a player can win just two bo3s and make playoffs. Also, the choice to do only three matches on Sunday is equally bad. Should have done Ro8 onwards. On June 01 2024 14:40 Kreuger wrote:On June 01 2024 13:49 JJH777 wrote:
Does that mean we'll get the winner of herO/Clem/Gumi vs Maru? That'd be sad was hoping for a 3rd herO vs Maru finals. From my understanding it should be yeah Could very well be a remarkably bad tournament for Protoss, again. Decent chance we don't get even one Protoss in Ro8 and then if this is the case Maru will likely bop herO. In other news, I really thought Serral was going to take a hit with military service. Clearly not haha. It’s a pretty brutal format, there should be some balance between circuit qualification and the open bracket that is a little less skewed. Honestly I don’t think anyone except maybe Serral close to his best could conceivably navigate this format to win a tournament, and even then it would be a tall order.
How is it worse than the Katowice open bracket that has been there for years and some notable winners got through it (albeit rarely)
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On June 01 2024 20:00 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2024 19:37 darklycid wrote:On June 01 2024 18:03 WombaT wrote:
PvZ has been in a decent spot for quite a while now, Serral’s just got a ZvP on a whole other level entirely. Possibly the strongest single matchup we’ve seen in SC2’s time
Yeah think so Too its Just funny when people (i guess zergs) recently tried to yap about zvp being toss favored now and at this Event its 23-9 for zergs so far TBF, a LOT of that is simply matchup logic. Dark stomping Trigger, Reynor and Serral stomping Nice. Rogue and Solar stomped some protoss in the total PvZvPvZ bracket. Scarlett smacked around Holden. The only obvious reverse example of that was Mixu vs Shadown, and I would generally not be anywhere near as confident about calling that in advance, and say it's balanced by Mixu stomping Zain. So that's about 8 of those matches where balance would have to be very far gone for the protoss to stand a chance. Meanwhile the zerg walkovers either got knocked out by terran or in mirrors.
Shhh...you're supposed to let them believe their delusions and pet narratives.
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Can't decide if I think 1 or 2 Protoss are gonna make it out of this part of the bracket. No more than 2 will advance though.
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EPT
