Protoss seems pretty good against Zerg at the moment,Trap will have some well thought out builds and take it 4-2. Should be able to watch it and talk about food with you guys.
4 years since a crowned zerg, it's time now, Trap has demonstrated great abilities, has a advantageous meta and is backed by a team but still, I believe in Dark.
On June 21 2019 19:49 Ej_ wrote: Can Dark overcome the dreaded Teamhouse Environment?
Dark choking in finals + teamhouse environment is like an unbeatable super Archon. Does he even stand a chance? It will take his sickest builds for sure. He's going to have to 12-pool every single game to have any shot at all.
4-2 Either way Hoping for Trap to win cuz of Protoss Bias Also hoping for Dark to win cuz SKT Bias But seriously if Dark doesn't win tomorrow then he ain't never gonna win a Code S, cuz honestly he could have had a much more accomplished and strong opponent (a.k.a Classic)
On June 21 2019 23:54 AzAlexZ wrote: 4-2 Either way Hoping for Trap to win cuz of Protoss Bias Also hoping for Dark to win cuz SKT Bias But seriously if Dark doesn't win tomorrow then he ain't never gonna win a Code S, cuz honestly he could have had a much more accomplished and strong opponent (a.k.a Classic)
I honestly don't think Trap is a much weaker opponent for Dark, if weaker at all.
Trap has been playing ridiculously well this tournament. His play is dynamic, his micro and tactics on point. Classic is a much more mechanical and build order based player, which Dark loves to throw wrenches in and turn it into a messy slug fest.
To give an idea of how well Trap has been playing, he just beat Classic, who has had an absolutely monster PvP this entire year and has been considered the best Protoss on the planet this year, and Innovation, a Terran horseman who has been slaughtering Protoss players recently (including stats twice in this tournament).
He also has the full might of his team house behind him...sOs a genius player and Rogue who is part of the Zerg Big 3 along with Dark.
Trap will overcome being on the wrong side of the PvZ imbalance to win 4-2. None of the games will be particularly enjoyable since PvZ is horrid to watch.
On June 21 2019 23:54 AzAlexZ wrote: 4-2 Either way Hoping for Trap to win cuz of Protoss Bias Also hoping for Dark to win cuz SKT Bias But seriously if Dark doesn't win tomorrow then he ain't never gonna win a Code S, cuz honestly he could have had a much more accomplished and strong opponent (a.k.a Classic)
To give an idea of how well Trap has been playing, he just beat Classic, who has had an absolutely monster PvP this entire year and has been considered the best Protoss on the planet this year, and Innovation, a Terran horseman who has been slaughtering Protoss players recently (including stats twice in this tournament).
On June 22 2019 00:29 Boggyb wrote: Trap will overcome being on the wrong side of the PvZ imbalance to win 4-2. None of the games will be particularly enjoyable since PvZ is horrid to watch.
I know you love that role of the token guy complaining about the hardships of Protoss vs Zerg, but the last time ZvP was above 50% in Code S, was 2018 Season 1.
On June 21 2019 23:54 AzAlexZ wrote: 4-2 Either way Hoping for Trap to win cuz of Protoss Bias Also hoping for Dark to win cuz SKT Bias But seriously if Dark doesn't win tomorrow then he ain't never gonna win a Code S, cuz honestly he could have had a much more accomplished and strong opponent (a.k.a Classic)
To give an idea of how well Trap has been playing, he just beat Classic, who has had an absolutely monster PvP this entire year and has been considered the best Protoss on the planet this year, and Innovation, a Terran horseman who has been slaughtering Protoss players recently (including stats twice in this tournament).
The only significant win he has is against Stats. For some reason everyone forgot that was down to Stats playing like shit not INno playing that well.
Admittedly if you only look at offline matches, his TvP is not impressive. But include online events, it's a lot stronger. His TvP winrate has been very high on ladder too (but lol ladder).
Inno himself said he's more comfortable in TvP than in TvZ, which is hard to believe imo
On June 22 2019 00:29 Boggyb wrote: Trap will overcome being on the wrong side of the PvZ imbalance to win 4-2. None of the games will be particularly enjoyable since PvZ is horrid to watch.
I know you love that role of the token guy complaining about the hardships of Protoss vs Zerg, but the last time ZvP was above 50% in Code S, was 2018 Season 1.
That's because there are like 2.5 good Zerg players in Korea: soO (until the GSL finals), Dark (until the ro4), Rogue (not recently), and Solar (even less recently). Someone else occasionally does something of note like make the ro16 or even ro8 but it is usually flash in the pan.
I feel like if you looked at active pros who had ro4s or better in HotS that you'd find more Protoss than Terran or Zerg. (I'd check but Liquipedia is being weird at the moment)
On June 21 2019 23:54 AzAlexZ wrote: 4-2 Either way Hoping for Trap to win cuz of Protoss Bias Also hoping for Dark to win cuz SKT Bias But seriously if Dark doesn't win tomorrow then he ain't never gonna win a Code S, cuz honestly he could have had a much more accomplished and strong opponent (a.k.a Classic)
To give an idea of how well Trap has been playing, he just beat Classic, who has had an absolutely monster PvP this entire year and has been considered the best Protoss on the planet this year, and Innovation, a Terran horseman who has been slaughtering Protoss players recently (including stats twice in this tournament).
The only significant win he has is against Stats. For some reason everyone forgot that was down to Stats playing like shit not INno playing that well.
Admittedly if you only look at offline matches, his TvP is not impressive. But include online events, it's a lot stronger. His TvP winrate has been very high on ladder too (but lol ladder).
Inno himself said he's more comfortable in TvP than in TvZ, which is hard to believe imo
Thing is INno has been murdering ladder and online events since forever. But he's still had massive slumps when it comes on offline. Look at all of last year (and most of this year) for example.
On June 21 2019 23:54 AzAlexZ wrote: 4-2 Either way Hoping for Trap to win cuz of Protoss Bias Also hoping for Dark to win cuz SKT Bias But seriously if Dark doesn't win tomorrow then he ain't never gonna win a Code S, cuz honestly he could have had a much more accomplished and strong opponent (a.k.a Classic)
To give an idea of how well Trap has been playing, he just beat Classic, who has had an absolutely monster PvP this entire year and has been considered the best Protoss on the planet this year, and Innovation, a Terran horseman who has been slaughtering Protoss players recently (including stats twice in this tournament).
The only significant win he has is against Stats. For some reason everyone forgot that was down to Stats playing like shit not INno playing that well.
Admittedly if you only look at offline matches, his TvP is not impressive. But include online events, it's a lot stronger. His TvP winrate has been very high on ladder too (but lol ladder).
Inno himself said he's more comfortable in TvP than in TvZ, which is hard to believe imo
Thing is INno has been murdering ladder and online events since forever. But he's still had massive slumps when it comes on offline. Look at all of last year (and most of this year) for example.
I don't think inno is slumping at all at the moment. He regularly beats serral, maru, and stats in the biggest tournaments and just won wesg. No way you can compare 2019 inno with 2018 inno which was a real slump.
On June 21 2019 23:54 AzAlexZ wrote: 4-2 Either way Hoping for Trap to win cuz of Protoss Bias Also hoping for Dark to win cuz SKT Bias But seriously if Dark doesn't win tomorrow then he ain't never gonna win a Code S, cuz honestly he could have had a much more accomplished and strong opponent (a.k.a Classic)
To give an idea of how well Trap has been playing, he just beat Classic, who has had an absolutely monster PvP this entire year and has been considered the best Protoss on the planet this year, and Innovation, a Terran horseman who has been slaughtering Protoss players recently (including stats twice in this tournament).
The only significant win he has is against Stats. For some reason everyone forgot that was down to Stats playing like shit not INno playing that well.
Admittedly if you only look at offline matches, his TvP is not impressive. But include online events, it's a lot stronger. His TvP winrate has been very high on ladder too (but lol ladder).
Inno himself said he's more comfortable in TvP than in TvZ, which is hard to believe imo
Thing is INno has been murdering ladder and online events since forever. But he's still had massive slumps when it comes on offline. Look at all of last year (and most of this year) for example.
I don't think inno is slumping at all at the moment. He regularly beats serral, maru, and stats in the biggest tournaments and just won wesg. No way you can compare 2019 inno with 2018 inno which was a real slump.
He gets overhyped because he beats Maru and Serral, but doing well against those two doesn't make up for bombing out to everyone else.
This isn't 2013 INno, or 2017 INno, or even 2015 INno. It's reasonable to call that a slump. He hasn't looked like a championship contender in any event so far outside of WeSG (where he basically only had to play Maru and Serral to win).
On June 21 2019 23:54 AzAlexZ wrote: 4-2 Either way Hoping for Trap to win cuz of Protoss Bias Also hoping for Dark to win cuz SKT Bias But seriously if Dark doesn't win tomorrow then he ain't never gonna win a Code S, cuz honestly he could have had a much more accomplished and strong opponent (a.k.a Classic)
To give an idea of how well Trap has been playing, he just beat Classic, who has had an absolutely monster PvP this entire year and has been considered the best Protoss on the planet this year, and Innovation, a Terran horseman who has been slaughtering Protoss players recently (including stats twice in this tournament).
The only significant win he has is against Stats. For some reason everyone forgot that was down to Stats playing like shit not INno playing that well.
Admittedly if you only look at offline matches, his TvP is not impressive. But include online events, it's a lot stronger. His TvP winrate has been very high on ladder too (but lol ladder).
Inno himself said he's more comfortable in TvP than in TvZ, which is hard to believe imo
Thing is INno has been murdering ladder and online events since forever. But he's still had massive slumps when it comes on offline. Look at all of last year (and most of this year) for example.
I don't think inno is slumping at all at the moment. He regularly beats serral, maru, and stats in the biggest tournaments and just won wesg. No way you can compare 2019 inno with 2018 inno which was a real slump.
He gets overhyped because he beats Maru and Serral, but doing well against those two doesn't make up for bombing out to everyone else.
This isn't 2013 INno, or 2017 INno, or even 2015 INno. It's reasonable to call that a slump. He hasn't looked like a championship contender in any event so far outside of WeSG (where he basically only had to play Maru and Serral to win).
I'm not saying he's playing at the level he was at his peaks.
Maybe our definitions of slumps differ. Fact of the matter, however, is that he's nothing less than the second best Terran player on the planet. And has had a lot of success this year already
On June 22 2019 00:29 Boggyb wrote: Trap will overcome being on the wrong side of the PvZ imbalance to win 4-2. None of the games will be particularly enjoyable since PvZ is horrid to watch.
I know you love that role of the token guy complaining about the hardships of Protoss vs Zerg, but the last time ZvP was above 50% in Code S, was 2018 Season 1.
I feel like if you looked at active pros who had ro4s or better in HotS that you'd find more Protoss than Terran or Zerg. (I'd check but Liquipedia is being weird at the moment)
Yes, because Protoss was also the most successful race of that expansion :D
On June 22 2019 00:29 Boggyb wrote: Trap will overcome being on the wrong side of the PvZ imbalance to win 4-2. None of the games will be particularly enjoyable since PvZ is horrid to watch.
I know you love that role of the token guy complaining about the hardships of Protoss vs Zerg, but the last time ZvP was above 50% in Code S, was 2018 Season 1.
That's because there are like 2.5 good Zerg players in Korea: soO (until the GSL finals), Dark (until the ro4), Rogue (not recently), and Solar (even less recently). Someone else occasionally does something of note like make the ro16 or even ro8 but it is usually flash in the pan.
I feel like if you looked at active pros who had ro4s or better in HotS that you'd find more Protoss than Terran or Zerg. (I'd check but Liquipedia is being weird at the moment)
Agreed. ZvP is imbalanced in favor of Zerg but it looks like it's the other way around because Protoss players happen to be better.
On June 22 2019 00:29 Boggyb wrote: Trap will overcome being on the wrong side of the PvZ imbalance to win 4-2. None of the games will be particularly enjoyable since PvZ is horrid to watch.
I know you love that role of the token guy complaining about the hardships of Protoss vs Zerg, but the last time ZvP was above 50% in Code S, was 2018 Season 1.
I feel like if you looked at active pros who had ro4s or better in HotS that you'd find more Protoss than Terran or Zerg. (I'd check but Liquipedia is being weird at the moment)
Yes, because Protoss was also the most successful race of that expansion :D
Or because Life was banned and ByuL retired. Who has Protoss lost in LotV? MyuNgSiK?
edit: I guess Rain since I don't think he played any in LotV or I can't recall it.
This season has been one of the worst in recent memory, but perhaps it can go out strong. This final has a lot of potential. Both these guys have wanted to be champs for so long and they have a longstanding rivalry. Trap tends to have Dark's number though.
On June 21 2019 23:54 AzAlexZ wrote: 4-2 Either way Hoping for Trap to win cuz of Protoss Bias Also hoping for Dark to win cuz SKT Bias But seriously if Dark doesn't win tomorrow then he ain't never gonna win a Code S, cuz honestly he could have had a much more accomplished and strong opponent (a.k.a Classic)
To give an idea of how well Trap has been playing, he just beat Classic, who has had an absolutely monster PvP this entire year and has been considered the best Protoss on the planet this year, and Innovation, a Terran horseman who has been slaughtering Protoss players recently (including stats twice in this tournament).
The only significant win he has is against Stats. For some reason everyone forgot that was down to Stats playing like shit not INno playing that well.
Admittedly if you only look at offline matches, his TvP is not impressive. But include online events, it's a lot stronger. His TvP winrate has been very high on ladder too (but lol ladder).
Inno himself said he's more comfortable in TvP than in TvZ, which is hard to believe imo
Thing is INno has been murdering ladder and online events since forever. But he's still had massive slumps when it comes on offline. Look at all of last year (and most of this year) for example.
I don't think inno is slumping at all at the moment. He regularly beats serral, maru, and stats in the biggest tournaments and just won wesg. No way you can compare 2019 inno with 2018 inno which was a real slump.
He gets overhyped because he beats Maru and Serral, but doing well against those two doesn't make up for bombing out to everyone else.
This isn't 2013 INno, or 2017 INno, or even 2015 INno. It's reasonable to call that a slump. He hasn't looked like a championship contender in any event so far outside of WeSG (where he basically only had to play Maru and Serral to win).
Inno right now is like 2012/13 Mvp bringing out his best against the best, even as he can't keep up with average players. In 2013 it was Mvp making miracles against Inno despite all odds. Now its Inno doing it to Serral and Maru.
I think although Dark is more skillful in my humble opinion, a good chance that Trap will be bolstered by the love and support of his colleagues, coach, meal prep and practice environment.
On June 22 2019 00:29 Boggyb wrote: Trap will overcome being on the wrong side of the PvZ imbalance to win 4-2. None of the games will be particularly enjoyable since PvZ is horrid to watch.
I know you love that role of the token guy complaining about the hardships of Protoss vs Zerg, but the last time ZvP was above 50% in Code S, was 2018 Season 1.
I feel like if you looked at active pros who had ro4s or better in HotS that you'd find more Protoss than Terran or Zerg. (I'd check but Liquipedia is being weird at the moment)
Yes, because Protoss was also the most successful race of that expansion :D
Or because Life was banned and ByuL retired. Who has Protoss lost in LotV? MyuNgSiK?
edit: I guess Rain since I don't think he played any in LotV or I can't recall it.
On June 22 2019 00:29 Boggyb wrote: Trap will overcome being on the wrong side of the PvZ imbalance to win 4-2. None of the games will be particularly enjoyable since PvZ is horrid to watch.
I know you love that role of the token guy complaining about the hardships of Protoss vs Zerg, but the last time ZvP was above 50% in Code S, was 2018 Season 1.
I feel like if you looked at active pros who had ro4s or better in HotS that you'd find more Protoss than Terran or Zerg. (I'd check but Liquipedia is being weird at the moment)
Yes, because Protoss was also the most successful race of that expansion :D
Or because Life was banned and ByuL retired. Who has Protoss lost in LotV? MyuNgSiK?
edit: I guess Rain since I don't think he played any in LotV or I can't recall it.
Unrelated- I think post sc2 soulkey is the strongest zerg alive and.... probably of all time. Sc2 made him a strong bw player. Facts. Zerg also lost Soulkey, Roro, Sniper lol
On June 22 2019 00:29 Boggyb wrote: Trap will overcome being on the wrong side of the PvZ imbalance to win 4-2. None of the games will be particularly enjoyable since PvZ is horrid to watch.
I know you love that role of the token guy complaining about the hardships of Protoss vs Zerg, but the last time ZvP was above 50% in Code S, was 2018 Season 1.
I feel like if you looked at active pros who had ro4s or better in HotS that you'd find more Protoss than Terran or Zerg. (I'd check but Liquipedia is being weird at the moment)
Yes, because Protoss was also the most successful race of that expansion :D
Or because Life was banned and ByuL retired. Who has Protoss lost in LotV? MyuNgSiK?
edit: I guess Rain since I don't think he played any in LotV or I can't recall it.
Unrelated- I think post sc2 soulkey is the strongest zerg alive and.... probably of all time. Sc2 made him a strong bw player. Facts. Zerg also lost Soulkey, Roro, Sniper lol
On June 22 2019 00:29 Boggyb wrote: Trap will overcome being on the wrong side of the PvZ imbalance to win 4-2. None of the games will be particularly enjoyable since PvZ is horrid to watch.
I know you love that role of the token guy complaining about the hardships of Protoss vs Zerg, but the last time ZvP was above 50% in Code S, was 2018 Season 1.
I feel like if you looked at active pros who had ro4s or better in HotS that you'd find more Protoss than Terran or Zerg. (I'd check but Liquipedia is being weird at the moment)
Yes, because Protoss was also the most successful race of that expansion :D
Or because Life was banned and ByuL retired. Who has Protoss lost in LotV? MyuNgSiK?
edit: I guess Rain since I don't think he played any in LotV or I can't recall it.
Unrelated- I think post sc2 soulkey is the strongest zerg alive and.... probably of all time. Sc2 made him a strong bw player. Facts. Zerg also lost Soulkey, Roro, Sniper lol
hey stop putting words in my mouth
Very sorry friend. Mobile posting error. I'll leave it for continuity.
On June 22 2019 17:29 Die4Ever wrote: "last OFFICIAL Zerg champion is Soulkey" well that's one way to avoid saying Life
Do they practice these statements? Or are people just really good at removing Life from all memory?
I'm sure they spent some time to think about how they wanted to talk about it for this finals, even if you count Life it's still been a long time since a Zerg won a GSL, it's a big talking point
On June 22 2019 17:28 AttackZerg wrote: Talking about balance in a Championship is kinda very lame.
They never balanced bw and Jaedong didn't shed qqs about Terran at a finals.
I dislike it as a spectator but... maybe in this game that is the norm.
Jaedong was playing with what he had for 9 years, he knew Daddy Blizzard would not come to save him from Flash or Fantasy. It was all him, he had to be the best player now and years from now. These players can play the game and also put on a show in interviews because their monthly income depends on what stupid forum ideas Blizzard adopts this year.
On June 22 2019 17:28 AttackZerg wrote: Talking about balance in a Championship is kinda very lame.
They never balanced bw and Jaedong didn't shed qqs about Terran at a finals.
I dislike it as a spectator but... maybe in this game that is the norm.
Jaedong was playing with what he had for 9 years, he knew Daddy Blizzard would not come to save him from Flash or Fantasy. It was all him, he had to be the best player now and years from now. These players can play the game and also put on a show in interviews because their monthly income depends on what stupid forum ideas Blizzard adopts this year.
On June 22 2019 17:30 Akio wrote: Jin Air is the best SC2 team ever? Hmmm..
And which one if not they? Multiple Code S titles. Multiple Blizzcon titles. Multiple IEM titles. A Proleague title and a runner up(which in SC2 is the 1st - 2nd best result, SKT T1 has the same result)
On June 22 2019 17:30 Akio wrote: Jin Air is the best SC2 team ever? Hmmm..
And which one if not they? Multiple Code S titles. Multiple Blizzcon titles. Multiple IEM titles. A Proleague title and a runner up(which in SC2 is the 1st - 2nd best result, SKT T1 has the same result)
?
I don't deny that they have the most titles, just saying that it's not the most genuine statement when so many of those titles were won after all the other proleague teams went away Not to take anything away from Jin Air ofc
On June 22 2019 17:28 AttackZerg wrote: Talking about balance in a Championship is kinda very lame.
They never balanced bw and Jaedong didn't shed qqs about Terran at a finals.
I dislike it as a spectator but... maybe in this game that is the norm.
Jaedong was playing with what he had for 9 years, he knew Daddy Blizzard would not come to save him from Flash or Fantasy. It was all him, he had to be the best player now and years from now. These players can play the game and also put on a show in interviews because their monthly income depends on what stupid forum ideas Blizzard adopts this year.
LOL.
They are lobbying for a better race.
LoL. That is wack. Haha
Hah of course they're trying their best and not just lobbying, but most pros would agree balance patches highly affect theor chances, be it positively or negatively. Polt once said on stream "In the RO32 and Ro16 whoever is better wins, but whoever's race is better reaches the finals."
On June 22 2019 17:45 Ej_ wrote: Actualy a perfect game by Dark. He made it look easy.
No, it came down to a single crucial mistake from Trap, Dark was behind all game.
Shh, don't tell them that.
He massed roaches to contain Trap on 3 bases. He switched to muta to force garbage unita and cannons out of 3 base toss and then he used the mutas to pick off sentries and get the prism while Trap was forcing himself down Zerg's throat. It was all planned.
On June 22 2019 17:45 Ej_ wrote: Actualy a perfect game by Dark. He made it look easy.
No, it came down to a single crucial mistake from Trap, Dark was behind all game.
Shh, don't tell them that.
He massed roaches to contain Trap on 3 bases. He switched to muta to force garbage unita and cannons out of 3 base toss and then he used the mutas to pick off sentries and get the prism while Trap was forcing himself down Zerg's throat. It was all planned.
He lost 3 mutas to pick up a sentry, yes Trap committed to cannons, but the muta flock was more expensive than Trap commitment. IF Trap dosent lose the prim and warps 2 rounds of zealots Trap crushes Dark easily at the 4th. Yet he didnt protect with archon phonexis his prism. A crucial mistake that cost him the game. Roach hold on 3 bases while you are taking your 4th as Z is nothing.
On June 22 2019 17:45 Ej_ wrote: Actualy a perfect game by Dark. He made it look easy.
No, it came down to a single crucial mistake from Trap, Dark was behind all game.
Shh, don't tell them that.
He massed roaches to contain Trap on 3 bases. He switched to muta to force garbage unita and cannons out of 3 base toss and then he used the mutas to pick off sentries and get the prism while Trap was forcing himself down Zerg's throat. It was all planned.
he played him like a fiddle but it wasn't exactly a Stradivarius
On June 22 2019 17:56 Morbidius wrote: This is the "I'm willing to do stupid shit so watch out" game from Dark right?
He played proxy-hatch into macro against Hurricane, basically just using it as a disruptive tactic before playing a 'normal' game. He switched it up into something more aggressive against Trap, but Trap just won the mind-game when he countered Dark's units with actual units of his own D:
On June 22 2019 17:56 Morbidius wrote: This is the "I'm willing to do stupid shit so watch out" game from Dark right?
He played proxy-hatch into macro against Hurricane, basically just using it as a disruptive tactic before playing a 'normal' game. He switched it up into something more aggressive against Trap, but Trap just won the mind-game when he countered Dark's units with actual units of his own D:
Yeah but the "stupid shit" part was pulled off on turbo cruise as well, even if it didn't have a proxy hatch.
On June 22 2019 18:12 Durnuu wrote: Yes he can, lmao After getting cannon rushed by Zest in that awful proleague finals, Trap inherited the cannon rushing skills
On June 22 2019 18:15 sudete wrote: If you told me before this that GSL finals would be the worst premier final of the year so far...
I would probably believe you
the ro32 and ro16 for this tourney had an exciting upset like every day. consequently, everything after was less than stellar games, noncompetitive series, etc.
On June 22 2019 18:15 sudete wrote: If you told me before this that GSL finals would be the worst premier final of the year so far...
I would probably believe you
the ro32 and ro16 for this tourney had an exciting upset like every day. consequently, everything after was less than stellar games, noncompetitive series, etc.
this was a strange GSL.
Exciting upsets cause crappy players who play crappy games to make it thru. Who knew.
On June 22 2019 18:30 Kaizor wrote: The winner of this GSL is not decided through who shows the most skill, but rather by which player that is most able to defend against cheese.
zzzzz
because you don't need skill to defend against cheese
On June 22 2019 18:30 Kaizor wrote: The winner of this GSL is not decided through who shows the most skill, but rather by which player that is most able to defend against cheese.
zzzzz
because you don't need skill to defend against cheese
SC2 should be only 30 minutes macro games bro, cheese shouldn't even be part of the game
On June 22 2019 18:30 Kaizor wrote: The winner of this GSL is not decided through who shows the most skill, but rather by which player that is most able to defend against cheese.
zzzzz
because you don't need skill to defend against cheese
SC2 should be only 30 minutes macro games bro, cheese shouldn't even be part of the game
I have no problem with players cheesing to win, and hell, it can even make some really entertaining games. By all means players should do anything within their power to win, but that doesn't make it entertaining to watch.
People as just not used to the lack of handsome Maru in the finals, thats why they are upset. They think its the games but its just a misinterpretation of the feelings they have.
Game #1 was pretty good, even back and forth for a bit until Trap overextended and got rolled over by Dark. Game #2 was early aggression by Dark excellently defended by Trap. Game #3 was a cannon rush into a botched Immortal/Shield Battery siege. Game 4 was a Swarmhost rush by Dark that did nothing and was easily countered by Trap.
In my view, the match so far was alright - with the exception of game #3.
On June 22 2019 17:30 Akio wrote: Jin Air is the best SC2 team ever? Hmmm..
And which one if not they? Multiple Code S titles. Multiple Blizzcon titles. Multiple IEM titles. A Proleague title and a runner up(which in SC2 is the 1st - 2nd best result, SKT T1 has the same result)
?
I don't deny that they have the most titles, just saying that it's not the most genuine statement when so many of those titles were won after all the other proleague teams went away Not to take anything away from Jin Air ofc
Yeah, like those sOs' titles or that Proleague title and the 2nd place, right? C'mon.
On June 22 2019 17:30 Akio wrote: Jin Air is the best SC2 team ever? Hmmm..
And which one if not they? Multiple Code S titles. Multiple Blizzcon titles. Multiple IEM titles. A Proleague title and a runner up(which in SC2 is the 1st - 2nd best result, SKT T1 has the same result)
?
I don't deny that they have the most titles, just saying that it's not the most genuine statement when so many of those titles were won after all the other proleague teams went away Not to take anything away from Jin Air ofc
Yeah, like those sOs' titles or that Proleague title and the 2nd place, right? C'mon.
and SKT/KT never won anything? Jin air wasn't the best team until the other teams disbanded
On June 22 2019 17:30 Akio wrote: Jin Air is the best SC2 team ever? Hmmm..
And which one if not they? Multiple Code S titles. Multiple Blizzcon titles. Multiple IEM titles. A Proleague title and a runner up(which in SC2 is the 1st - 2nd best result, SKT T1 has the same result)
?
I don't deny that they have the most titles, just saying that it's not the most genuine statement when so many of those titles were won after all the other proleague teams went away Not to take anything away from Jin Air ofc
Yeah, like those sOs' titles or that Proleague title and the 2nd place, right? C'mon.
and SKT/KT never won anything? Jin air wasn't the best team until the other teams disbanded
On June 22 2019 17:30 Akio wrote: Jin Air is the best SC2 team ever? Hmmm..
And which one if not they? Multiple Code S titles. Multiple Blizzcon titles. Multiple IEM titles. A Proleague title and a runner up(which in SC2 is the 1st - 2nd best result, SKT T1 has the same result)
?
I don't deny that they have the most titles, just saying that it's not the most genuine statement when so many of those titles were won after all the other proleague teams went away Not to take anything away from Jin Air ofc
Yeah, like those sOs' titles or that Proleague title and the 2nd place, right? C'mon.
and SKT/KT never won anything? Jin air wasn't the best team until the other teams disbanded
On June 22 2019 19:02 darklycid wrote: Btw protoss era leads to tvz Finals in WCS and the First Zerg gsl win in ages
The Protoss plague was so unstoppable no Protoss ended up winning, in fact; pages and pages of people complaining, ridicolous xd.
Super Tournament wasn't that long ago. And if Classic didn't choke in the semis, I think he could've beaten Dark if that were the finals here.
I Just wanted to poke fun a lil Bit :D tbf protoss perfroms pretty Well in Kr currently and i can Understand everyone that says there are Problems in PvZ and pvt, but people right now hate Just too much i feel.
On June 22 2019 19:02 darklycid wrote: Btw protoss era leads to tvz Finals in WCS and the First Zerg gsl win in ages
The Protoss plague was so unstoppable no Protoss ended up winning, in fact; pages and pages of people complaining, ridicolous xd.
Super Tournament wasn't that long ago. And if Classic didn't choke in the semis, I think he could've beaten Dark if that were the finals here.
Super Tournament was won by Protoss last year as well, literally nothing changed if not the increased(and sometimes oppressive) Protoss presence from ro16 onwards; they weren't any more successful.
On June 22 2019 19:02 darklycid wrote: Btw protoss era leads to tvz Finals in WCS and the First Zerg gsl win in ages
The Protoss plague was so unstoppable no Protoss ended up winning, in fact; pages and pages of people complaining, ridicolous xd.
Super Tournament wasn't that long ago. And if Classic didn't choke in the semis, I think he could've beaten Dark if that were the finals here.
Super Tournament was won by Protoss last year as well, literally nothing changed if not the increased(and sometimes oppressive) Protoss presence from ro16 onwards; they weren't any more successful.
Literally nothing has changed, except for what has changed.
On June 22 2019 18:54 Charoisaur wrote: I've never seen a Zerg player play that well
Serral does that build even better. Imo
Against Drogo and Goblin
Dark's surround of Trap's immortals with burrowed roaches was extremely cool, but now you are embarassing yourself with such claims. That's now how I expected Dark to put an end to JAGW's dominion in Code S, but he still grabbed his well deserved trophy.
Dark has shown that he may counter protoss's all-in timing attacks with some aggressive nydus bluff plays. I predict that some protoss players will stop using timing attacks for all the match ups in the next GSL unless Terran hasn't yet find the solution to this problem.
On June 22 2019 19:02 darklycid wrote: Btw protoss era leads to tvz Finals in WCS and the First Zerg gsl win in ages
The Protoss plague was so unstoppable no Protoss ended up winning, in fact; pages and pages of people complaining, ridicolous xd.
Super Tournament wasn't that long ago. And if Classic didn't choke in the semis, I think he could've beaten Dark if that were the finals here.
Super Tournament was won by Protoss last year as well, literally nothing changed if not the increased(and sometimes oppressive) Protoss presence from ro16 onwards; they weren't any more successful.
Literally nothing has changed, except for what has changed.
I still consider Dark winning a victory for Protoss, since he helped take the edge off the balance whine.
The first GSL season in a while where I watched almost all the games from the Ro16 on, & a really good one. Deserving finalists and a deserving champion. GG!
I'm glad Dark finally took one home. He's been so good for so long. Trap winning one and fading back to obscurity a la Sniper or some such wouldn't have been as satisfying.
On June 23 2019 01:25 Kitai wrote: I'm glad Dark finally took one home. He's been so good for so long. Trap winning one and fading back to obscurity a la Sniper or some such wouldn't have been as satisfying.
Why would Trap fade into obscurity? If players can't improve, how could you explain Rogue and Maru?
On June 23 2019 01:25 Kitai wrote: I'm glad Dark finally took one home. He's been so good for so long. Trap winning one and fading back to obscurity a la Sniper or some such wouldn't have been as satisfying.
Why would Trap fade into obscurity? If players can't improve, how could you explain Rogue and Maru?
Call it a hunch based on the fact that he's been playing GSLs since 2012 and hasn't achieved anything notable in them for 7 years. He's like the Protoss version of Curious - a very good player to consistently make it into Code S but always seen as a Ro32/Ro16 gatekeeper without any results to prove otherwise. One tournament or two (like this one) is bound to be an outlier eventually.
Also, I'm really interested to hear about where I said "players can't improve." I looked all over the post you quoted and tried really hard to remember my previous posts but didn't come up with anything?
On June 23 2019 01:25 Kitai wrote: I'm glad Dark finally took one home. He's been so good for so long. Trap winning one and fading back to obscurity a la Sniper or some such wouldn't have been as satisfying.
Why would Trap fade into obscurity? If players can't improve, how could you explain Rogue and Maru?
Call it a hunch based on the fact that he's been playing GSLs since 2012 and hasn't achieved anything notable in them for 7 years. He's like the Protoss version of Curious - a very good player to consistently make it into Code S but always seen as a Ro32/Ro16 gatekeeper without any results to prove otherwise. One tournament or two (like this one) is bound to be an outlier eventually.
Also, I'm really interested to hear about where I said "players can't improve." I looked all over the post you quoted and tried really hard to remember my previous posts but didn't come up with anything?
Hes was saying that trap improved and he doubted he would fade away., trap got so far, he clearly Improved.
Maybe he will be a constant threat ro4 protoss now, he could get better from this.
On June 23 2019 01:25 Kitai wrote: I'm glad Dark finally took one home. He's been so good for so long. Trap winning one and fading back to obscurity a la Sniper or some such wouldn't have been as satisfying.
Why would Trap fade into obscurity? If players can't improve, how could you explain Rogue and Maru?
Call it a hunch based on the fact that he's been playing GSLs since 2012 and hasn't achieved anything notable in them for 7 years. He's like the Protoss version of Curious - a very good player to consistently make it into Code S but always seen as a Ro32/Ro16 gatekeeper without any results to prove otherwise. One tournament or two (like this one) is bound to be an outlier eventually.
Also, I'm really interested to hear about where I said "players can't improve." I looked all over the post you quoted and tried really hard to remember my previous posts but didn't come up with anything?
Byun was very middling on Prime in 2011. in 2015(?) he literally disappeared to where people were talking about wellness checks. then he won a GSL and blizzcon.
Gumiho had a floor higher than Trap's but he was a gatekeeper who gradually improved into a title.
Trap made a ro4(?) katowice like 5 years ago and a ro4 and silver GSL medal the last two. I suppose those would be outliers but it seems players can gradually improve from gatekeeper to finalist or champion. doesnt trap have an IEM too?
On June 23 2019 01:25 Kitai wrote: I'm glad Dark finally took one home. He's been so good for so long. Trap winning one and fading back to obscurity a la Sniper or some such wouldn't have been as satisfying.
Why would Trap fade into obscurity? If players can't improve, how could you explain Rogue and Maru?
Call it a hunch based on the fact that he's been playing GSLs since 2012 and hasn't achieved anything notable in them for 7 years. He's like the Protoss version of Curious - a very good player to consistently make it into Code S but always seen as a Ro32/Ro16 gatekeeper without any results to prove otherwise. One tournament or two (like this one) is bound to be an outlier eventually.
Also, I'm really interested to hear about where I said "players can't improve." I looked all over the post you quoted and tried really hard to remember my previous posts but didn't come up with anything?
Byun was very middling on Prime in 2011. in 2015(?) he literally disappeared to where people were talking about wellness checks. then he won a GSL and blizzcon.
Gumiho had a floor higher than Trap's but he was a gatekeeper who gradually improved into a title.
Trap made a ro4(?) katowice like 5 years ago and a ro4 and silver GSL medal the last two. I suppose those would be outliers but it seems players can gradually improve from gatekeeper to finalist or champion. doesnt trap have an IEM too?
I dunno personally I wasn't hugely impressed by Traps run.
He beat Scarlett, Special, hero X2 in the group stages - good show, but expected victories really.
He then took on innovation 3-2 and classic 4-3. Both of those I felt Inno and classic kind of threw, classic especially. They weren't wins that made me feel like trap was better than either, just kind of the randomness of starcraft was a fairly big factor. He was then just OK in the finals.
Trap is a really good player but for me he is still not really a true contender for best in the world. soO is an example of someone who looks a top contender despite not winning... Trap would be in Tier 2 now tho.
On June 23 2019 01:25 Kitai wrote: I'm glad Dark finally took one home. He's been so good for so long. Trap winning one and fading back to obscurity a la Sniper or some such wouldn't have been as satisfying.
Why would Trap fade into obscurity? If players can't improve, how could you explain Rogue and Maru?
Call it a hunch based on the fact that he's been playing GSLs since 2012 and hasn't achieved anything notable in them for 7 years. He's like the Protoss version of Curious - a very good player to consistently make it into Code S but always seen as a Ro32/Ro16 gatekeeper without any results to prove otherwise. One tournament or two (like this one) is bound to be an outlier eventually.
Also, I'm really interested to hear about where I said "players can't improve." I looked all over the post you quoted and tried really hard to remember my previous posts but didn't come up with anything?
Byun was very middling on Prime in 2011. in 2015(?) he literally disappeared to where people were talking about wellness checks. then he won a GSL and blizzcon.
Gumiho had a floor higher than Trap's but he was a gatekeeper who gradually improved into a title.
Trap made a ro4(?) katowice like 5 years ago and a ro4 and silver GSL medal the last two. I suppose those would be outliers but it seems players can gradually improve from gatekeeper to finalist or champion. doesnt trap have an IEM too?
I dunno personally I wasn't hugely impressed by Traps run.
He beat Scarlett, Special, hero X2 in the group stages - good show, but expected victories really.
He then took on innovation 3-2 and classic 4-3. Both of those I felt Inno and classic kind of threw, classic especially. They weren't wins that made me feel like trap was better than either, just kind of the randomness of starcraft was a fairly big factor. He was then just OK in the finals.
Trap is a really good player but for me he is still not really a true contender for best in the world. soO is an example of someone who looks a top contender despite not winning... Trap would be in Tier 2 now tho.
Trap's path was harder than Dark's except for ro16; you might not be impressed by Trap if you look at him expecting to see the best Protoss in the world, but just compare the player he is now to the player he has been for the last five years, he is definitely tier 1 now that he hasn't one matchup dragging him down, he is ready to win something big after a ro4 and a final in Code S.
I, for one, was not impressed by Classic's play these months despite everyone was praising him.
On June 23 2019 01:25 Kitai wrote: I'm glad Dark finally took one home. He's been so good for so long. Trap winning one and fading back to obscurity a la Sniper or some such wouldn't have been as satisfying.
Why would Trap fade into obscurity? If players can't improve, how could you explain Rogue and Maru?
Call it a hunch based on the fact that he's been playing GSLs since 2012 and hasn't achieved anything notable in them for 7 years. He's like the Protoss version of Curious - a very good player to consistently make it into Code S but always seen as a Ro32/Ro16 gatekeeper without any results to prove otherwise. One tournament or two (like this one) is bound to be an outlier eventually.
Also, I'm really interested to hear about where I said "players can't improve." I looked all over the post you quoted and tried really hard to remember my previous posts but didn't come up with anything?
Byun was very middling on Prime in 2011. in 2015(?) he literally disappeared to where people were talking about wellness checks. then he won a GSL and blizzcon.
Gumiho had a floor higher than Trap's but he was a gatekeeper who gradually improved into a title.
Trap made a ro4(?) katowice like 5 years ago and a ro4 and silver GSL medal the last two. I suppose those would be outliers but it seems players can gradually improve from gatekeeper to finalist or champion. doesnt trap have an IEM too?
I dunno personally I wasn't hugely impressed by Traps run.
He beat Scarlett, Special, hero X2 in the group stages - good show, but expected victories really.
He then took on innovation 3-2 and classic 4-3. Both of those I felt Inno and classic kind of threw, classic especially. They weren't wins that made me feel like trap was better than either, just kind of the randomness of starcraft was a fairly big factor. He was then just OK in the finals.
Trap is a really good player but for me he is still not really a true contender for best in the world. soO is an example of someone who looks a top contender despite not winning... Trap would be in Tier 2 now tho.
This just sounds like anti-protoss bias TBH. Either that or you don't understand what Trap has accomplished
Scarlett, Special, and HerO are excellent players.
Scarlett made a name by destroying legendary protoss player sOs and is capable of beating almost any player if firing on all cylinders.
Special is a TvP specialist. He hates protoss with a passion and dedicates most of his time towards the TvP matchup. He recently steamrolled neeb and sOs, for example.
There was a time when people were calling hero a bonjwa. He's one of the greatest protoss players of all time by many accounts. Saying that Trap beating him twice is expected is pretty delusional imo.
Then comes the playoffs, where Trap beats both Innovation and Classic. That is insane, as they are both, at least Top 2 (if not Top 1) players of their respective races on the planet. And trap beat them both in BO5/BO7. Saying that Classic and Innovation threw is just disrespectful to Trap. Dude beat both of them with dynamic play.
lol @ randomness of starcraft
basically, anyone who reaches the finals of a tournament is de facto contender, whether you believe it or not. Trap earned it, and he earned it big. he ran the gauntlet to reach the finals.
On June 23 2019 09:24 BerserkSword wrote: Scarlett made a name by destroying legendary protoss player sOs and is capable of beating almost any player if firing on all cylinders.
On June 23 2019 01:25 Kitai wrote: I'm glad Dark finally took one home. He's been so good for so long. Trap winning one and fading back to obscurity a la Sniper or some such wouldn't have been as satisfying.
Why would Trap fade into obscurity? If players can't improve, how could you explain Rogue and Maru?
Call it a hunch based on the fact that he's been playing GSLs since 2012 and hasn't achieved anything notable in them for 7 years. He's like the Protoss version of Curious - a very good player to consistently make it into Code S but always seen as a Ro32/Ro16 gatekeeper without any results to prove otherwise. One tournament or two (like this one) is bound to be an outlier eventually.
Also, I'm really interested to hear about where I said "players can't improve." I looked all over the post you quoted and tried really hard to remember my previous posts but didn't come up with anything?
Byun was very middling on Prime in 2011. in 2015(?) he literally disappeared to where people were talking about wellness checks. then he won a GSL and blizzcon.
Gumiho had a floor higher than Trap's but he was a gatekeeper who gradually improved into a title.
Trap made a ro4(?) katowice like 5 years ago and a ro4 and silver GSL medal the last two. I suppose those would be outliers but it seems players can gradually improve from gatekeeper to finalist or champion. doesnt trap have an IEM too?
I dunno personally I wasn't hugely impressed by Traps run.
He beat Scarlett, Special, hero X2 in the group stages - good show, but expected victories really.
He then took on innovation 3-2 and classic 4-3. Both of those I felt Inno and classic kind of threw, classic especially. They weren't wins that made me feel like trap was better than either, just kind of the randomness of starcraft was a fairly big factor. He was then just OK in the finals.
Trap is a really good player but for me he is still not really a true contender for best in the world. soO is an example of someone who looks a top contender despite not winning... Trap would be in Tier 2 now tho.
This just sounds like anti-protoss bias TBH. Either that or you don't understand what Trap has accomplished
Scarlett, Special, and HerO are excellent players.
Scarlett made a name by destroying legendary protoss player sOs and is capable of beating almost any player if firing on all cylinders.
Special is a TvP specialist. He hates protoss with a passion and dedicates most of his time towards the TvP matchup. He recently steamrolled neeb and sOs, for example.
There was a time when people were calling hero a bonjwa. He's one of the greatest protoss players of all time by many accounts. Saying that Trap beating him twice is expected is pretty delusional imo.
Then comes the playoffs, where Trap beats both Innovation and Classic. That is insane, as they are both, at least Top 2 (if not Top 1) players of their respective races on the planet. And trap beat them both in BO5/BO7. Saying that Classic and Innovation threw is just disrespectful to Trap. Dude beat both of them with dynamic play.
lol @ randomness of starcraft
basically, anyone who reaches the finals of a tournament is de facto contender, whether you believe it or not. Trap earned it, and he earned it big. he ran the gauntlet to reach the finals.
On June 23 2019 01:25 Kitai wrote: I'm glad Dark finally took one home. He's been so good for so long. Trap winning one and fading back to obscurity a la Sniper or some such wouldn't have been as satisfying.
Why would Trap fade into obscurity? If players can't improve, how could you explain Rogue and Maru?
Call it a hunch based on the fact that he's been playing GSLs since 2012 and hasn't achieved anything notable in them for 7 years. He's like the Protoss version of Curious - a very good player to consistently make it into Code S but always seen as a Ro32/Ro16 gatekeeper without any results to prove otherwise. One tournament or two (like this one) is bound to be an outlier eventually.
Also, I'm really interested to hear about where I said "players can't improve." I looked all over the post you quoted and tried really hard to remember my previous posts but didn't come up with anything?
Byun was very middling on Prime in 2011. in 2015(?) he literally disappeared to where people were talking about wellness checks. then he won a GSL and blizzcon.
Gumiho had a floor higher than Trap's but he was a gatekeeper who gradually improved into a title.
Trap made a ro4(?) katowice like 5 years ago and a ro4 and silver GSL medal the last two. I suppose those would be outliers but it seems players can gradually improve from gatekeeper to finalist or champion. doesnt trap have an IEM too?
I dunno personally I wasn't hugely impressed by Traps run.
He beat Scarlett, Special, hero X2 in the group stages - good show, but expected victories really.
He then took on innovation 3-2 and classic 4-3. Both of those I felt Inno and classic kind of threw, classic especially. They weren't wins that made me feel like trap was better than either, just kind of the randomness of starcraft was a fairly big factor. He was then just OK in the finals.
Trap is a really good player but for me he is still not really a true contender for best in the world. soO is an example of someone who looks a top contender despite not winning... Trap would be in Tier 2 now tho.
This just sounds like anti-protoss bias TBH. Either that or you don't understand what Trap has accomplished
Scarlett, Special, and HerO are excellent players.
Scarlett made a name by destroying legendary protoss player sOs and is capable of beating almost any player if firing on all cylinders.
Special is a TvP specialist. He hates protoss with a passion and dedicates most of his time towards the TvP matchup. He recently steamrolled neeb and sOs, for example.
There was a time when people were calling hero a bonjwa. He's one of the greatest protoss players of all time by many accounts. Saying that Trap beating him twice is expected is pretty delusional imo.
Then comes the playoffs, where Trap beats both Innovation and Classic. That is insane, as they are both, at least Top 2 (if not Top 1) players of their respective races on the planet. And trap beat them both in BO5/BO7. Saying that Classic and Innovation threw is just disrespectful to Trap. Dude beat both of them with dynamic play.
lol @ randomness of starcraft
basically, anyone who reaches the finals of a tournament is de facto contender, whether you believe it or not. Trap earned it, and he earned it big. he ran the gauntlet to reach the finals.
I agree with most of this but this
There was a time when people were calling hero a bonjwa.
made me laugh. There certainly wasn't a time when herO was called a bonjwa.
So happy for Dark. He's been a favorite for a while because while he couldn't seal the deal for a long time he seemed to always want it and to become better.
During the after-series interview here the caster (/translator) says: "You called JYP, that you want to die, that everything is so hard for you." Dark goes from smiling to crying, camera cut to his grilfriend (?) also crying heavily. Am I misreading it, is it known and discussed, did no one notice this or what? If it is what it seems why are we not talking about it? Thanks.