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On June 30 2015 01:56 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2015 01:39 rotta wrote:On June 30 2015 01:28 Inflicted wrote:
Stats had pretty poor results lately Yeah, only 18-3 this year - what a scrub! By lately he probably meant the last 3 weeks instead of the last 6 months. He didn't qualify for IEM, KeSPA Cup or GSL. But then... with Stats, that's almost business as usual by now.
I'm sorry, I thought we were talking about SPL in an SPL thread.
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On June 29 2015 23:42 The_Templar wrote:
sOs all kill, right?
Lee Seung Hyun all-kill
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United States97277 Posts
On June 30 2015 03:10 Ej_ wrote:Lee Seung Hyun all-kill
4th best player in KT this round. Should bench him for stats
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On June 30 2015 03:28 Shellshock wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2015 03:10 Ej_ wrote:On June 29 2015 23:42 The_Templar wrote:
sOs all kill, right? Lee Seung Hyun all-kill 4th best player in KT this round. Should bench him for stats
Would it be demotivating to be behind Flash in SC2PL? =/
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Elentos
55594 Posts
On June 30 2015 03:39 IntoTheheart wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2015 03:28 Shellshock wrote:On June 30 2015 03:10 Ej_ wrote:On June 29 2015 23:42 The_Templar wrote:
sOs all kill, right? Lee Seung Hyun all-kill 4th best player in KT this round. Should bench him for stats Would it be demotivating to be behind Flash in SC2PL? =/
Why should it be?
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On June 30 2015 03:43 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2015 03:39 IntoTheheart wrote:On June 30 2015 03:28 Shellshock wrote:On June 30 2015 03:10 Ej_ wrote:On June 29 2015 23:42 The_Templar wrote:
sOs all kill, right? Lee Seung Hyun all-kill 4th best player in KT this round. Should bench him for stats Would it be demotivating to be behind Flash in SC2PL? =/ Why should it?
Flash didn't exactly have the greatest transition into SC2, let's just put it that way. Buuut he's working hard (probably is working hard) and improving. But I would've thought that Life would just crush everyone else in 2015.
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On June 30 2015 03:44 IntoTheheart wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2015 03:43 Elentos wrote:On June 30 2015 03:39 IntoTheheart wrote:On June 30 2015 03:28 Shellshock wrote:On June 30 2015 03:10 Ej_ wrote:On June 29 2015 23:42 The_Templar wrote:
sOs all kill, right? Lee Seung Hyun all-kill 4th best player in KT this round. Should bench him for stats Would it be demotivating to be behind Flash in SC2PL? =/ Why should it? Flash didn't exactly have the greatest transition into SC2, let's just put it that way. Buuut he's working hard (probably is working hard) and improving. But I would've thought that Life would just crush everyone else in 2015.
FlaSh's peak was in August/September 2014 and since he basically announced his retirement he won't improve a lot.
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On June 30 2015 03:47 OtherWorld wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2015 03:44 IntoTheheart wrote:On June 30 2015 03:43 Elentos wrote:On June 30 2015 03:39 IntoTheheart wrote:On June 30 2015 03:28 Shellshock wrote:On June 30 2015 03:10 Ej_ wrote:On June 29 2015 23:42 The_Templar wrote:
sOs all kill, right? Lee Seung Hyun all-kill 4th best player in KT this round. Should bench him for stats Would it be demotivating to be behind Flash in SC2PL? =/ Why should it? Flash didn't exactly have the greatest transition into SC2, let's just put it that way. Buuut he's working hard (probably is working hard) and improving. But I would've thought that Life would just crush everyone else in 2015. FlaSh's peak was in August/September 2014 and since he basically announced his retirement he won't improve a lot.
Wait when did he announce his retirement?
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Elentos
55594 Posts
On June 30 2015 03:44 IntoTheheart wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2015 03:43 Elentos wrote:On June 30 2015 03:39 IntoTheheart wrote:On June 30 2015 03:28 Shellshock wrote:On June 30 2015 03:10 Ej_ wrote:On June 29 2015 23:42 The_Templar wrote:
sOs all kill, right? Lee Seung Hyun all-kill 4th best player in KT this round. Should bench him for stats Would it be demotivating to be behind Flash in SC2PL? =/ Why should it? Flash didn't exactly have the greatest transition into SC2, let's just put it that way. Buuut he's working hard (probably is working hard) and improving. But I would've thought that Life would just crush everyone else in 2015.
This is Proleague. Sometimes, it follows its own rules. Flash may not have had much success in individual formats since his transition, but he's been KT's top performer the last 3 years straight, this'll be the first year he won't be.
Nevermind the fact that I would expect Life to be motivated from having to actually prove he's the better player.
On June 30 2015 03:48 IntoTheheart wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2015 03:47 OtherWorld wrote:On June 30 2015 03:44 IntoTheheart wrote:On June 30 2015 03:43 Elentos wrote:On June 30 2015 03:39 IntoTheheart wrote:On June 30 2015 03:28 Shellshock wrote:On June 30 2015 03:10 Ej_ wrote:On June 29 2015 23:42 The_Templar wrote:
sOs all kill, right? Lee Seung Hyun all-kill 4th best player in KT this round. Should bench him for stats Would it be demotivating to be behind Flash in SC2PL? =/ Why should it? Flash didn't exactly have the greatest transition into SC2, let's just put it that way. Buuut he's working hard (probably is working hard) and improving. But I would've thought that Life would just crush everyone else in 2015. FlaSh's peak was in August/September 2014 and since he basically announced his retirement he won't improve a lot. Wait when did he announce his retirement?
I assume he's referring to the TL interview with Flash where Flash says he's considering coming back to Brood War after he retires. With no indication of when that'll be whatsoever.
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On June 30 2015 03:50 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2015 03:44 IntoTheheart wrote:On June 30 2015 03:43 Elentos wrote:On June 30 2015 03:39 IntoTheheart wrote:On June 30 2015 03:28 Shellshock wrote:On June 30 2015 03:10 Ej_ wrote:On June 29 2015 23:42 The_Templar wrote:
sOs all kill, right? Lee Seung Hyun all-kill 4th best player in KT this round. Should bench him for stats Would it be demotivating to be behind Flash in SC2PL? =/ Why should it? Flash didn't exactly have the greatest transition into SC2, let's just put it that way. Buuut he's working hard (probably is working hard) and improving. But I would've thought that Life would just crush everyone else in 2015. This is Proleague. Sometimes, it follows its own rules. Flash may not have had much success in individual formats since his transition, but he's been KT's top performer the last 3 years straight, this'll be the first year he won't be. Nevermind the fact that I would expect Life to be motivated from having to actually prove he's the better player. Show nested quote +On June 30 2015 03:48 IntoTheheart wrote:On June 30 2015 03:47 OtherWorld wrote:On June 30 2015 03:44 IntoTheheart wrote:On June 30 2015 03:43 Elentos wrote:On June 30 2015 03:39 IntoTheheart wrote:On June 30 2015 03:28 Shellshock wrote:On June 30 2015 03:10 Ej_ wrote:On June 29 2015 23:42 The_Templar wrote:
sOs all kill, right? Lee Seung Hyun all-kill 4th best player in KT this round. Should bench him for stats Would it be demotivating to be behind Flash in SC2PL? =/ Why should it? Flash didn't exactly have the greatest transition into SC2, let's just put it that way. Buuut he's working hard (probably is working hard) and improving. But I would've thought that Life would just crush everyone else in 2015. FlaSh's peak was in August/September 2014 and since he basically announced his retirement he won't improve a lot. Wait when did he announce his retirement? I assume he's referring to the TL interview with Flash where Flash says he's considering coming back to Brood War after he retires. With no indication of when that'll be.
Ah okay, that makes a lot more sense. I don't think that he'll retire until at least after Legacy comes out, because it'll probably be a partial, if not full reset to the game.
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United States97277 Posts
On June 30 2015 03:44 IntoTheheart wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2015 03:43 Elentos wrote:On June 30 2015 03:39 IntoTheheart wrote:On June 30 2015 03:28 Shellshock wrote:On June 30 2015 03:10 Ej_ wrote:On June 29 2015 23:42 The_Templar wrote:
sOs all kill, right? Lee Seung Hyun all-kill 4th best player in KT this round. Should bench him for stats Would it be demotivating to be behind Flash in SC2PL? =/ Why should it? Flash didn't exactly have the greatest transition into SC2, let's just put it that way. Buuut he's working hard (probably is working hard) and improving. But I would've thought that Life would just crush everyone else in 2015.
It's not like Flash is a crap player in sc2. He's actually done pretty well in proleague each season and he's still a tournament winner. He may not be a gsl title contender but that doesn't mean it's shameful to have done worse than him in proleague. The whole flash transitioning poorly is way overblown just because of who he is.
Also, life is historically a very average team league player in the Korean team leagues. He's pretty much doing as expected. Just look up his results from gstl and stuff
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On June 30 2015 04:02 Shellshock wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2015 03:44 IntoTheheart wrote:On June 30 2015 03:43 Elentos wrote:On June 30 2015 03:39 IntoTheheart wrote:On June 30 2015 03:28 Shellshock wrote:On June 30 2015 03:10 Ej_ wrote:On June 29 2015 23:42 The_Templar wrote:
sOs all kill, right? Lee Seung Hyun all-kill 4th best player in KT this round. Should bench him for stats Would it be demotivating to be behind Flash in SC2PL? =/ Why should it? Flash didn't exactly have the greatest transition into SC2, let's just put it that way. Buuut he's working hard (probably is working hard) and improving. But I would've thought that Life would just crush everyone else in 2015. It's not like Flash is a crap player in sc2. He's actually done pretty well in proleague each season and he's still a tournament winner. He may not be a gsl title contender but that doesn't mean it's shameful to have done worse than him in proleague. The whole flash transitioning poorly is way overblown just because of who he is. Also, life is historically a very average team league player in the Korean team leagues. He's pretty much doing as expected. Just look up his results from gstl and stuff
Hm... I definitely see your point. I at least know that I had higher, and probably unreasonable expectations of Flash, but there's a good reason why the KT coaching squad keeps sending him out time after time.
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Elentos
55594 Posts
On June 30 2015 04:06 IntoTheheart wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2015 04:02 Shellshock wrote:On June 30 2015 03:44 IntoTheheart wrote:On June 30 2015 03:43 Elentos wrote:On June 30 2015 03:39 IntoTheheart wrote:On June 30 2015 03:28 Shellshock wrote:On June 30 2015 03:10 Ej_ wrote:On June 29 2015 23:42 The_Templar wrote:
sOs all kill, right? Lee Seung Hyun all-kill 4th best player in KT this round. Should bench him for stats Would it be demotivating to be behind Flash in SC2PL? =/ Why should it? Flash didn't exactly have the greatest transition into SC2, let's just put it that way. Buuut he's working hard (probably is working hard) and improving. But I would've thought that Life would just crush everyone else in 2015. It's not like Flash is a crap player in sc2. He's actually done pretty well in proleague each season and he's still a tournament winner. He may not be a gsl title contender but that doesn't mean it's shameful to have done worse than him in proleague. The whole flash transitioning poorly is way overblown just because of who he is. Also, life is historically a very average team league player in the Korean team leagues. He's pretty much doing as expected. Just look up his results from gstl and stuff Hm... I definitely see your point. I at least know that I had higher, and probably unreasonable expectations of Flash, but there's a good reason why the KT coaching squad keeps sending him out time after time.
Just go through the player stats for Proleague on Liquipedia from 2014 to 2011-2012 (season 2) and you see the main reason pretty much immediately. Other than him being Flash, that is.
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On June 30 2015 03:50 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2015 03:44 IntoTheheart wrote:On June 30 2015 03:43 Elentos wrote:On June 30 2015 03:39 IntoTheheart wrote:On June 30 2015 03:28 Shellshock wrote:On June 30 2015 03:10 Ej_ wrote:On June 29 2015 23:42 The_Templar wrote:
sOs all kill, right? Lee Seung Hyun all-kill 4th best player in KT this round. Should bench him for stats Would it be demotivating to be behind Flash in SC2PL? =/ Why should it? Flash didn't exactly have the greatest transition into SC2, let's just put it that way. Buuut he's working hard (probably is working hard) and improving. But I would've thought that Life would just crush everyone else in 2015. This is Proleague. Sometimes, it follows its own rules. Flash may not have had much success in individual formats since his transition, but he's been KT's top performer the last 3 years straight, this'll be the first year he won't be. Nevermind the fact that I would expect Life to be motivated from having to actually prove he's the better player. Show nested quote +On June 30 2015 03:48 IntoTheheart wrote:On June 30 2015 03:47 OtherWorld wrote:On June 30 2015 03:44 IntoTheheart wrote:On June 30 2015 03:43 Elentos wrote:On June 30 2015 03:39 IntoTheheart wrote:On June 30 2015 03:28 Shellshock wrote:On June 30 2015 03:10 Ej_ wrote:On June 29 2015 23:42 The_Templar wrote:
sOs all kill, right? Lee Seung Hyun all-kill 4th best player in KT this round. Should bench him for stats Would it be demotivating to be behind Flash in SC2PL? =/ Why should it? Flash didn't exactly have the greatest transition into SC2, let's just put it that way. Buuut he's working hard (probably is working hard) and improving. But I would've thought that Life would just crush everyone else in 2015. FlaSh's peak was in August/September 2014 and since he basically announced his retirement he won't improve a lot. Wait when did he announce his retirement? I assume he's referring to the TL interview with Flash where Flash says he's considering coming back to Brood War after he retires. With no indication of when that'll be whatsoever.
More precisely I'm referring to GGZerG's post saying that he'll retire at the end of the PL season. Which sounds about right to me, because unless he's still in GSL or SSL by then, that should be timed with his last GSL/SSL season before LotV's release.
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Elentos
55594 Posts
On June 30 2015 04:45 OtherWorld wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2015 03:50 Elentos wrote:On June 30 2015 03:44 IntoTheheart wrote:On June 30 2015 03:43 Elentos wrote:On June 30 2015 03:39 IntoTheheart wrote:On June 30 2015 03:28 Shellshock wrote:On June 30 2015 03:10 Ej_ wrote:On June 29 2015 23:42 The_Templar wrote:
sOs all kill, right? Lee Seung Hyun all-kill 4th best player in KT this round. Should bench him for stats Would it be demotivating to be behind Flash in SC2PL? =/ Why should it? Flash didn't exactly have the greatest transition into SC2, let's just put it that way. Buuut he's working hard (probably is working hard) and improving. But I would've thought that Life would just crush everyone else in 2015. This is Proleague. Sometimes, it follows its own rules. Flash may not have had much success in individual formats since his transition, but he's been KT's top performer the last 3 years straight, this'll be the first year he won't be. Nevermind the fact that I would expect Life to be motivated from having to actually prove he's the better player. On June 30 2015 03:48 IntoTheheart wrote:On June 30 2015 03:47 OtherWorld wrote:On June 30 2015 03:44 IntoTheheart wrote:On June 30 2015 03:43 Elentos wrote:On June 30 2015 03:39 IntoTheheart wrote:On June 30 2015 03:28 Shellshock wrote:On June 30 2015 03:10 Ej_ wrote:On June 29 2015 23:42 The_Templar wrote:
sOs all kill, right? Lee Seung Hyun all-kill 4th best player in KT this round. Should bench him for stats Would it be demotivating to be behind Flash in SC2PL? =/ Why should it? Flash didn't exactly have the greatest transition into SC2, let's just put it that way. Buuut he's working hard (probably is working hard) and improving. But I would've thought that Life would just crush everyone else in 2015. FlaSh's peak was in August/September 2014 and since he basically announced his retirement he won't improve a lot. Wait when did he announce his retirement? I assume he's referring to the TL interview with Flash where Flash says he's considering coming back to Brood War after he retires. With no indication of when that'll be whatsoever. More precisely I'm referring to GGZerG's post saying that he'll retire at the end of the PL season. Which sounds about right to me, because unless he's still in GSL or SSL by then, that should be timed with his last GSL/SSL season before LotV's release.
Do you have a link to that? I find individual posts I haven't read before impossible to find on TL.
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this will be quite interesting i believe. maru is the biggest threat for kt by far because on a normal day he should only lose to life. and then u have rogue who outsmarted life in the last zvzs ive seen between the 2.
life vs maru and stats vs rogue could be the only really close matches if we get those
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On June 30 2015 03:10 Ej_ wrote:Lee Seung Hyun all-kill
Damn hipsters got me googling names.
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On June 30 2015 04:48 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2015 04:45 OtherWorld wrote:On June 30 2015 03:50 Elentos wrote:On June 30 2015 03:44 IntoTheheart wrote:On June 30 2015 03:43 Elentos wrote:On June 30 2015 03:39 IntoTheheart wrote:On June 30 2015 03:28 Shellshock wrote:On June 30 2015 03:10 Ej_ wrote:On June 29 2015 23:42 The_Templar wrote:
sOs all kill, right? Lee Seung Hyun all-kill 4th best player in KT this round. Should bench him for stats Would it be demotivating to be behind Flash in SC2PL? =/ Why should it? Flash didn't exactly have the greatest transition into SC2, let's just put it that way. Buuut he's working hard (probably is working hard) and improving. But I would've thought that Life would just crush everyone else in 2015. This is Proleague. Sometimes, it follows its own rules. Flash may not have had much success in individual formats since his transition, but he's been KT's top performer the last 3 years straight, this'll be the first year he won't be. Nevermind the fact that I would expect Life to be motivated from having to actually prove he's the better player. On June 30 2015 03:48 IntoTheheart wrote:On June 30 2015 03:47 OtherWorld wrote:On June 30 2015 03:44 IntoTheheart wrote:On June 30 2015 03:43 Elentos wrote:On June 30 2015 03:39 IntoTheheart wrote:On June 30 2015 03:28 Shellshock wrote:On June 30 2015 03:10 Ej_ wrote:
[quote]
Lee Seung Hyun all-kill 4th best player in KT this round. Should bench him for stats Would it be demotivating to be behind Flash in SC2PL? =/ Why should it? Flash didn't exactly have the greatest transition into SC2, let's just put it that way. Buuut he's working hard (probably is working hard) and improving. But I would've thought that Life would just crush everyone else in 2015. FlaSh's peak was in August/September 2014 and since he basically announced his retirement he won't improve a lot. Wait when did he announce his retirement? I assume he's referring to the TL interview with Flash where Flash says he's considering coming back to Brood War after he retires. With no indication of when that'll be whatsoever. More precisely I'm referring to GGZerG's post saying that he'll retire at the end of the PL season. Which sounds about right to me, because unless he's still in GSL or SSL by then, that should be timed with his last GSL/SSL season before LotV's release. Do you have a link to that? I find individual posts I haven't read before impossible to find on TL.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/485256-flash-intends-on-playing-brood-war-again-later-on?page=2#32
edit : well he doesn't precise "at the end of the PL season", but it would be odd to see him retire before the end of PL ; thus "in a few months" (dated from early May) sounds like somewhere between August wait aren't these in September this year? (PL finals) and November (if he makes BlizzCon).
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Elentos
55594 Posts
On June 30 2015 05:00 OtherWorld wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2015 04:48 Elentos wrote:On June 30 2015 04:45 OtherWorld wrote:On June 30 2015 03:50 Elentos wrote:On June 30 2015 03:44 IntoTheheart wrote:On June 30 2015 03:43 Elentos wrote:On June 30 2015 03:39 IntoTheheart wrote:On June 30 2015 03:28 Shellshock wrote:On June 30 2015 03:10 Ej_ wrote:On June 29 2015 23:42 The_Templar wrote:
sOs all kill, right? Lee Seung Hyun all-kill 4th best player in KT this round. Should bench him for stats Would it be demotivating to be behind Flash in SC2PL? =/ Why should it? Flash didn't exactly have the greatest transition into SC2, let's just put it that way. Buuut he's working hard (probably is working hard) and improving. But I would've thought that Life would just crush everyone else in 2015. This is Proleague. Sometimes, it follows its own rules. Flash may not have had much success in individual formats since his transition, but he's been KT's top performer the last 3 years straight, this'll be the first year he won't be. Nevermind the fact that I would expect Life to be motivated from having to actually prove he's the better player. On June 30 2015 03:48 IntoTheheart wrote:On June 30 2015 03:47 OtherWorld wrote:On June 30 2015 03:44 IntoTheheart wrote:On June 30 2015 03:43 Elentos wrote:On June 30 2015 03:39 IntoTheheart wrote:On June 30 2015 03:28 Shellshock wrote:
[quote]
4th best player in KT this round. Should bench him for stats Would it be demotivating to be behind Flash in SC2PL? =/ Why should it? Flash didn't exactly have the greatest transition into SC2, let's just put it that way. Buuut he's working hard (probably is working hard) and improving. But I would've thought that Life would just crush everyone else in 2015. FlaSh's peak was in August/September 2014 and since he basically announced his retirement he won't improve a lot. Wait when did he announce his retirement? I assume he's referring to the TL interview with Flash where Flash says he's considering coming back to Brood War after he retires. With no indication of when that'll be whatsoever. More precisely I'm referring to GGZerG's post saying that he'll retire at the end of the PL season. Which sounds about right to me, because unless he's still in GSL or SSL by then, that should be timed with his last GSL/SSL season before LotV's release. Do you have a link to that? I find individual posts I haven't read before impossible to find on TL. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/485256-flash-intends-on-playing-brood-war-again-later-on?page=2#32
Although I don't quite see the point of going back to Brood War before your military service.
Also might be a tough year coming up for KT. Zest, First, Stats and Flash are all around the same age and all former BW pros, imagine if they retire collectively :S
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On June 30 2015 05:03 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2015 05:00 OtherWorld wrote:On June 30 2015 04:48 Elentos wrote:On June 30 2015 04:45 OtherWorld wrote:On June 30 2015 03:50 Elentos wrote:On June 30 2015 03:44 IntoTheheart wrote:On June 30 2015 03:43 Elentos wrote:On June 30 2015 03:39 IntoTheheart wrote:On June 30 2015 03:28 Shellshock wrote:On June 30 2015 03:10 Ej_ wrote:
[quote]
Lee Seung Hyun all-kill 4th best player in KT this round. Should bench him for stats Would it be demotivating to be behind Flash in SC2PL? =/ Why should it? Flash didn't exactly have the greatest transition into SC2, let's just put it that way. Buuut he's working hard (probably is working hard) and improving. But I would've thought that Life would just crush everyone else in 2015. This is Proleague. Sometimes, it follows its own rules. Flash may not have had much success in individual formats since his transition, but he's been KT's top performer the last 3 years straight, this'll be the first year he won't be. Nevermind the fact that I would expect Life to be motivated from having to actually prove he's the better player. On June 30 2015 03:48 IntoTheheart wrote:On June 30 2015 03:47 OtherWorld wrote:On June 30 2015 03:44 IntoTheheart wrote:On June 30 2015 03:43 Elentos wrote:On June 30 2015 03:39 IntoTheheart wrote:
[quote]
Would it be demotivating to be behind Flash in SC2PL? =/ Why should it? Flash didn't exactly have the greatest transition into SC2, let's just put it that way. Buuut he's working hard (probably is working hard) and improving. But I would've thought that Life would just crush everyone else in 2015. FlaSh's peak was in August/September 2014 and since he basically announced his retirement he won't improve a lot. Wait when did he announce his retirement? I assume he's referring to the TL interview with Flash where Flash says he's considering coming back to Brood War after he retires. With no indication of when that'll be whatsoever. More precisely I'm referring to GGZerG's post saying that he'll retire at the end of the PL season. Which sounds about right to me, because unless he's still in GSL or SSL by then, that should be timed with his last GSL/SSL season before LotV's release. Do you have a link to that? I find individual posts I haven't read before impossible to find on TL. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/485256-flash-intends-on-playing-brood-war-again-later-on?page=2#32 Although I don't quite see the point of going back to Brood War before your military service. Also might be a tough year coming up for KT. Zest, First, Stats and Flash are all around the same age and all former BW pros, imagine if they retire collectively :S
I think it all depends on LotV and how much they enjoy it & the success they get tbh. Although for FlaSh it's another matter, I think that he set for himself the "2 years to be among the best in SC2" deadline (or 3 years, I don't remember) and now he's seeing that SC2 isn't meeting his expectations in terms of results, thus retirement. Zest and Stats are decently successful this year so it'd be weird for them to come back to BW, at least not until they spend 1 or so year(s) trying to find success in LotV. No idea about First though.
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EPT
