On February 01 2015 18:28 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
On February 01 2015 18:26 GumBa wrote:
On February 01 2015 18:24 Soularion wrote:
On February 01 2015 18:17 GumBa wrote:
On February 01 2015 18:14 Soularion wrote: I think this finals cements what we know of both players. Life is still a really fucking good, clutch, consistent beast of a player who can easily take apart anyone and can only lose straight up games to like Rain and Maru (and probably Dark/Rogue too). Maru is still the best in the world when he's on his game yet has a harsh weakness against lings, blink and various other all-ins, alongside being fairly inconsistent. Amazing foreign debut by Maru as a whole, very happy with how it turned out. Life's reign may not yet be over, but I find that this series may serve as the beginning of the end for him. We'll see, though.
This wasn't Maru foreign debut. And. I reckon Inno could take Life in a straight up game and herO and well lots of people. Hang on am I getting swag bro'd
It was his debut in a foreign weekender - I don't think IPL4 counts in the same category. First time being a real competitor at a foreign event, if you will. INno/herO are possible too (that's why I put 'like' there, if you noticed ^^) but my point was that the pool of players who could beat Life is very, very small - only herO/Rain/Maru have proved to be able to take him out (not counting PL and the like).
Wasn't wcs season 2 finals a weekend tournament as well?
It was season 3 in Toronto and yes it was. Also Blizzcon 2013 in Anaheim.
Maru was also at season 2. you know the one he qualified for by winning the OSL?
Maru intnl events: IPL, WCS season 2 finals, WCS season 3 finals, blizzcon and taipei
On February 01 2015 18:14 Soularion wrote: I think this finals cements what we know of both players. Life is still a really fucking good, clutch, consistent beast of a player who can easily take apart anyone and can only lose straight up games to like Rain and Maru (and probably Dark/Rogue too). Maru is still the best in the world when he's on his game yet has a harsh weakness against lings, blink and various other all-ins, alongside being fairly inconsistent. Amazing foreign debut by Maru as a whole, very happy with how it turned out. Life's reign may not yet be over, but I find that this series may serve as the beginning of the end for him. We'll see, though.
This wasn't Maru foreign debut. And. I reckon Inno could take Life in a straight up game and herO and well lots of people. Hang on am I getting swag bro'd
It was his debut in a foreign weekender - I don't think IPL4 counts in the same category. First time being a real competitor at a foreign event, if you will. INno/herO are possible too (that's why I put 'like' there, if you noticed ^^) but my point was that the pool of players who could beat Life is very, very small - only herO/Rain/Maru have proved to be able to take him out (not counting PL and the like).
Wasn't wcs season 2 finals a weekend tournament as well?
Yes it was. That dude doesn't know what he's talking about.
Not the same. Regular weekenders and WCS Season 2 Finals/Blizzcon are very different events, and I'd classify them differently as a result.
Why are they different?
Blizzcon should be pretty obvious, but the reason why I differentiate between WCS Season Finals and your regular IEMs and DHs is the question of routine. Not only do they generally see different types of players, but they also see different levels of practice and overall carry a different atmosphere. I could see why you'd clump them up, though. Just a matter of how you choose to approach it, really. My point was that it was the first time we saw Maru in a traditional weekender that doesn't have the increased pressure of the Season Finals or Blizzcon and that it was a good sight to see that he was able to adapt and actually thrive in such an environment.
On February 01 2015 18:31 Zealously wrote: Please excuse Soularion he made a good prediction in calling a close Life-Maru finals, but he gets a little drunk on success
So you're disagreeing that it's a good foreign tournament for Maru, or are you disagreeing that it shows -some- sign of relative weakness in Life? Do remember that you predicted a very stompy Life vs Maru finals, which is quite far from what you got. I wouldn't be surprised if Life continued his domination, but I would equally not be surprised if it turned out that this series was the start/continuation of people beginning to get better against him. I don't see how that's an insane idea to comprehend.
I think you're grossly overestimating the significance of Maru playing a good series against Life, yes. Remember, this is hardly the first time Life has been brought to the brink of elimination by another player only to get his shit together and win 2, 3, 4 (even 5 at one point I think) games in a row in confident and collected fashion. Maru played very well, I think he played above his level and managed to find the cracks you can exploit in Life's armor if he's good enough, but Life adapted and ironed out the chinks like he always does. This series didn't display weakness, it showed why Life is the best player in the world (peerless adaptability, mental composure and top-level skill in every aspect of the game) and Maru isn't, and I would much sooner intepret the finals as a sign of unabated strength than impending doom.
On February 01 2015 18:14 Soularion wrote: I think this finals cements what we know of both players. Life is still a really fucking good, clutch, consistent beast of a player who can easily take apart anyone and can only lose straight up games to like Rain and Maru (and probably Dark/Rogue too). Maru is still the best in the world when he's on his game yet has a harsh weakness against lings, blink and various other all-ins, alongside being fairly inconsistent. Amazing foreign debut by Maru as a whole, very happy with how it turned out. Life's reign may not yet be over, but I find that this series may serve as the beginning of the end for him. We'll see, though.
This wasn't Maru foreign debut. And. I reckon Inno could take Life in a straight up game and herO and well lots of people. Hang on am I getting swag bro'd
It was his debut in a foreign weekender - I don't think IPL4 counts in the same category. First time being a real competitor at a foreign event, if you will. INno/herO are possible too (that's why I put 'like' there, if you noticed ^^) but my point was that the pool of players who could beat Life is very, very small - only herO/Rain/Maru have proved to be able to take him out (not counting PL and the like).
Wasn't wcs season 2 finals a weekend tournament as well?
Yes it was. That dude doesn't know what he's talking about.
Not the same. Regular weekenders and WCS Season 2 Finals/Blizzcon are very different events, and I'd classify them differently as a result.
Why are they different?
Blizzcon should be pretty obvious, but the reason why I differentiate between WCS Season Finals and your regular IEMs and DHs is the question of routine. Not only do they generally see different types of players, but they also see different levels of practice and overall carry a different atmosphere. I could see why you'd clump them up, though. Just a matter of how you choose to approach it, really. My point was that it was the first time we saw Maru in a traditional weekender that doesn't have the increased pressure of the Season Finals or Blizzcon and that it was a good sight to see that he was able to adapt and actually thrive in such an environment.
Yeah in the end everyone see's it differently. It was just calling this his debut bugged me
On February 01 2015 18:28 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
On February 01 2015 18:26 GumBa wrote:
On February 01 2015 18:24 Soularion wrote:
On February 01 2015 18:17 GumBa wrote:
On February 01 2015 18:14 Soularion wrote: I think this finals cements what we know of both players. Life is still a really fucking good, clutch, consistent beast of a player who can easily take apart anyone and can only lose straight up games to like Rain and Maru (and probably Dark/Rogue too). Maru is still the best in the world when he's on his game yet has a harsh weakness against lings, blink and various other all-ins, alongside being fairly inconsistent. Amazing foreign debut by Maru as a whole, very happy with how it turned out. Life's reign may not yet be over, but I find that this series may serve as the beginning of the end for him. We'll see, though.
This wasn't Maru foreign debut. And. I reckon Inno could take Life in a straight up game and herO and well lots of people. Hang on am I getting swag bro'd
It was his debut in a foreign weekender - I don't think IPL4 counts in the same category. First time being a real competitor at a foreign event, if you will. INno/herO are possible too (that's why I put 'like' there, if you noticed ^^) but my point was that the pool of players who could beat Life is very, very small - only herO/Rain/Maru have proved to be able to take him out (not counting PL and the like).
Wasn't wcs season 2 finals a weekend tournament as well?
It was season 3 in Toronto and yes it was. Also Blizzcon 2013 in Anaheim.
Maru was also at season 2. you know the one he qualified for by winning the OSL?
Maru intnl events: IPL, WCS season 2 finals, WCS season 3 finals, blizzcon and taipei
Don't tell me that tell Soularion
I think maru played great for the first time at a weekend tournament but he showed some weakness blowing a 3-1 lead in the finals so it wouldn't surprise me if this is the beginning of the end for maru. However, I equally wouldn't be surprised if he kept playing well too. I also won't be surprised if maru wins gsl too, but I wouldn't be surprised if he lost gsl either.
On February 01 2015 18:31 Zealously wrote: Please excuse Soularion he made a good prediction in calling a close Life-Maru finals, but he gets a little drunk on success
His logic doesn’t really make sense. Maru playing life close doesn't suddenly mean people are going to rise to life's level.
Maru playing Life close is another example of people beginning to rise to Life's level. Rain at GSL, herO at SSL, Maru and PartinG at the qualifiers for this event.. The reason why I consider it a large step is that its the first time we've seen him struggle with someone within 2015 at a finals, which is less excusable. Again I'm not saying that people are magically going to be better than Life, I'm simply stating that I would not be surprised if this trend continued and we saw Life slip away from this 'best player in the world' state and back into a 'very good top tier player' state.
On February 01 2015 18:31 Zealously wrote: Please excuse Soularion he made a good prediction in calling a close Life-Maru finals, but he gets a little drunk on success
His logic doesn’t really make sense. Maru playing life close doesn't suddenly mean people are going to rise to life's level.
Maru playing Life close is another example of people beginning to rise to Life's level. Rain at GSL, herO at SSL, Maru and PartinG at the qualifiers for this event.. The reason why I consider it a large step is that its the first time we've seen him struggle with someone within 2015 at a finals, which is less excusable. Again I'm not saying that people are magically going to be better than Life, I'm simply stating that I would not be surprised if this trend continued and we saw Life slip away from this 'best player in the world' state and back into a 'very good top tier player' state.
this is the first time we've had a finals in 2015. You may be putting too much importance on this single event.
On February 01 2015 18:31 Zealously wrote: Please excuse Soularion he made a good prediction in calling a close Life-Maru finals, but he gets a little drunk on success
His logic doesn’t really make sense. Maru playing life close doesn't suddenly mean people are going to rise to life's level.
Maru playing Life close is another example of people beginning to rise to Life's level. Rain at GSL, herO at SSL, Maru and PartinG at the qualifiers for this event.. The reason why I consider it a large step is that its the first time we've seen him struggle with someone within 2015 at a finals, which is less excusable. Again I'm not saying that people are magically going to be better than Life, I'm simply stating that I would not be surprised if this trend continued and we saw Life slip away from this 'best player in the world' state and back into a 'very good top tier player' state.
On February 01 2015 18:31 Zealously wrote: Please excuse Soularion he made a good prediction in calling a close Life-Maru finals, but he gets a little drunk on success
His logic doesn’t really make sense. Maru playing life close doesn't suddenly mean people are going to rise to life's level.
Maru playing Life close is another example of people beginning to rise to Life's level. Rain at GSL, herO at SSL, Maru and PartinG at the qualifiers for this event.. The reason why I consider it a large step is that its the first time we've seen him struggle with someone within 2015 at a finals, which is less excusable. Again I'm not saying that people are magically going to be better than Life, I'm simply stating that I would not be surprised if this trend continued and we saw Life slip away from this 'best player in the world' state and back into a 'very good top tier player' state.
this is the first time we've had a finals in 2015. You may be putting too much importance on this single event.
*Shrugs* I see it as a continuation of a trend. Nothing more, nothing less.
On February 01 2015 18:31 Zealously wrote: Please excuse Soularion he made a good prediction in calling a close Life-Maru finals, but he gets a little drunk on success
His logic doesn’t really make sense. Maru playing life close doesn't suddenly mean people are going to rise to life's level.
Maru playing Life close is another example of people beginning to rise to Life's level. Rain at GSL, herO at SSL, Maru and PartinG at the qualifiers for this event.. The reason why I consider it a large step is that its the first time we've seen him struggle with someone within 2015 at a finals, which is less excusable. Again I'm not saying that people are magically going to be better than Life, I'm simply stating that I would not be surprised if this trend continued and we saw Life slip away from this 'best player in the world' state and back into a 'very good top tier player' state.
2015 has only had like one final though
Yeah that was just a lapse in knowledge. My meaning was that it took place on a bigger stage than the other times we've seen him struggle post-fixing his issues with ForGG. Apologies for the mishap
On February 01 2015 18:31 Zealously wrote: Please excuse Soularion he made a good prediction in calling a close Life-Maru finals, but he gets a little drunk on success
His logic doesn’t really make sense. Maru playing life close doesn't suddenly mean people are going to rise to life's level.
Maru playing Life close is another example of people beginning to rise to Life's level. Rain at GSL, herO at SSL, Maru and PartinG at the qualifiers for this event.. The reason why I consider it a large step is that its the first time we've seen him struggle with someone within 2015 at a finals, which is less excusable. Again I'm not saying that people are magically going to be better than Life, I'm simply stating that I would not be surprised if this trend continued and we saw Life slip away from this 'best player in the world' state and back into a 'very good top tier player' state.
I think it had more to do with life not reaching his usual level, especially in game 2-4, playing really sloppy and making mistakes. Game 6 was the game where both players didn't make any huge mistakes and it was still a pretty one sided game. So I think it was so close because life just didn't play well the first few games, not that Maru didn't play great because he would probably have beaten any other Zerg here
On February 01 2015 18:31 Zealously wrote: Please excuse Soularion he made a good prediction in calling a close Life-Maru finals, but he gets a little drunk on success
His logic doesn’t really make sense. Maru playing life close doesn't suddenly mean people are going to rise to life's level.
Maru playing Life close is another example of people beginning to rise to Life's level. Rain at GSL, herO at SSL, Maru and PartinG at the qualifiers for this event.. The reason why I consider it a large step is that its the first time we've seen him struggle with someone within 2015 at a finals, which is less excusable. Again I'm not saying that people are magically going to be better than Life, I'm simply stating that I would not be surprised if this trend continued and we saw Life slip away from this 'best player in the world' state and back into a 'very good top tier player' state.
this is the first time we've had a finals in 2015. You may be putting too much importance on this single event.
He's putting too much importance on a single finals that life played hung over. Also, life doesn’t have to beat everyone all the time to be considered the best because no one in sc2 wins 100 percent of their matches. I bet if life doesn't win SSL, gsl and Katowice he'll be like haha I told you so.
On February 01 2015 18:31 Zealously wrote: Please excuse Soularion he made a good prediction in calling a close Life-Maru finals, but he gets a little drunk on success
His logic doesn’t really make sense. Maru playing life close doesn't suddenly mean people are going to rise to life's level.
Maru playing Life close is another example of people beginning to rise to Life's level. Rain at GSL, herO at SSL, Maru and PartinG at the qualifiers for this event.. The reason why I consider it a large step is that its the first time we've seen him struggle with someone within 2015 at a finals, which is less excusable. Again I'm not saying that people are magically going to be better than Life, I'm simply stating that I would not be surprised if this trend continued and we saw Life slip away from this 'best player in the world' state and back into a 'very good top tier player' state.
2015 has only had like one final though
Yeah that was just a lapse in knowledge. My meaning was that it took place on a bigger stage than the other times we've seen him struggle post-fixing his issues with ForGG. Apologies for the mishap
On February 01 2015 18:31 Zealously wrote: Please excuse Soularion he made a good prediction in calling a close Life-Maru finals, but he gets a little drunk on success
His logic doesn’t really make sense. Maru playing life close doesn't suddenly mean people are going to rise to life's level.
Maru playing Life close is another example of people beginning to rise to Life's level. Rain at GSL, herO at SSL, Maru and PartinG at the qualifiers for this event.. The reason why I consider it a large step is that its the first time we've seen him struggle with someone within 2015 at a finals, which is less excusable. Again I'm not saying that people are magically going to be better than Life, I'm simply stating that I would not be surprised if this trend continued and we saw Life slip away from this 'best player in the world' state and back into a 'very good top tier player' state.
I think it had more to do with life not reaching his usual level, especially in game 2-4, playing really sloppy and making mistakes. Game 6 was the game where both players didn't make any huge mistakes and it was still a pretty one sided game. So I think it was so close because life just didn't play well the first few games, not that Maru didn't play great because he would probably have beaten any other Zerg here
Yeah, that's an argument as well. It's why I can't take too much stock into this. It's really nothing more than the continuation of a trend that may or may not exist, and I never intended for my original comment to spark such a debate. Really, all I wanted to say was that this final teaches us pretty much nothing about either player other than continuing their reputations as being really, really good.
On February 01 2015 18:31 Zealously wrote: Please excuse Soularion he made a good prediction in calling a close Life-Maru finals, but he gets a little drunk on success
His logic doesn’t really make sense. Maru playing life close doesn't suddenly mean people are going to rise to life's level.
Maru playing Life close is another example of people beginning to rise to Life's level. Rain at GSL, herO at SSL, Maru and PartinG at the qualifiers for this event.. The reason why I consider it a large step is that its the first time we've seen him struggle with someone within 2015 at a finals, which is less excusable. Again I'm not saying that people are magically going to be better than Life, I'm simply stating that I would not be surprised if this trend continued and we saw Life slip away from this 'best player in the world' state and back into a 'very good top tier player' state.
this is the first time we've had a finals in 2015. You may be putting too much importance on this single event.
*Shrugs* I see it as a continuation of a trend. Nothing more, nothing less.
When was Life indomitably better than his entire field? Last I checked he'd had numerous close calls against the best players. Blizzcon had Life-Taeja, he lost to herO at DH Stockholm, he lost to ForGG at DH Winter, he barely beat Maru here. Life isn't winning his series off his skill gap between himself and the rest of the field . He's winning because he is psychologically stable, has a destructive style that attacks the other players mentally, has great strategic variety and great series planning. If he falls off it wont be because the rest have "caught up" since they are all already there. It'll be because someone surprised him, out strategized him or caught him being lazy.
On February 01 2015 18:31 Zealously wrote: Please excuse Soularion he made a good prediction in calling a close Life-Maru finals, but he gets a little drunk on success
His logic doesn’t really make sense. Maru playing life close doesn't suddenly mean people are going to rise to life's level.
Maru playing Life close is another example of people beginning to rise to Life's level. Rain at GSL, herO at SSL, Maru and PartinG at the qualifiers for this event.. The reason why I consider it a large step is that its the first time we've seen him struggle with someone within 2015 at a finals, which is less excusable. Again I'm not saying that people are magically going to be better than Life, I'm simply stating that I would not be surprised if this trend continued and we saw Life slip away from this 'best player in the world' state and back into a 'very good top tier player' state.
this is the first time we've had a finals in 2015. You may be putting too much importance on this single event.
*Shrugs* I see it as a continuation of a trend. Nothing more, nothing less.
When was Life indomitably better than his entire field? Last I checked he'd had numerous close calls against the best players. Blizzcon had Life-Taeja, he lost to herO at DH Stockholm, he lost to ForGG at DH Winter, he barely beat Maru here. Life isn't winning his series off his skill gap between himself and the rest of the field . He's winning because he is psychologically stable, has a destructive style that attacks the other players mentally, has great strategic variety and great series planning. If he falls off it wont be because the rest have "caught up" since they are all already there. It'll be because someone surprised him, out strategized him or caught him being lazy.
That's an absolutely fair (and probably more correct overall) argument to make. Either way, that doesn't prove my comment wrong - it simply proves my starting point wrong. It's still another series that confirms your theory that Life isn't necessarily that much better than everyone and instead simply has a stronger strategical sense and a style that many find hard to match up against positively, especially over the course of a series.
Yeah he's making it sound like life has been bopping people all the time for a while. No, life wins but doesn't necessarily bop people unless it's mkp He's putting life on a pedestal that never existed in reality so he sees a close series and goes aha there's people catching up to life. I don't think anyone expected life to bop maru just like life was on a losing streak against taeja for a while.
I still don't think his logic makes sense. Maru playing life close just means maru played him close. It doesn't mean tomorrow supernova or someone is going to wake up and be on his level now. They're totally independent situations and Maru's level of play has no affect on other players level of play.
EPT
He's putting life on a pedestal that never existed in reality so he sees a close series and goes aha there's people catching up to life. I don't think anyone expected life to bop maru just like life was on a losing streak against taeja for a while. 
