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[MLG] Anaheim 2014 Day 3 - Page 249

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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Whining about Protoss or balance will be more harshly moderated from page 90 onwards.

Before making comments on race picking, refer to MLG's rules
The_Templar
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
your Country52798 Posts
June 23 2014 03:29 GMT
#4961
On June 23 2014 12:29 FiWiFaKi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 23 2014 12:26 Yhamm wrote:
On June 23 2014 12:24 FiWiFaKi wrote:
On June 23 2014 12:22 kaykoose wrote:
On June 23 2014 12:17 Solar424 wrote:
Fun fact: the last 4 finals of Premier Tournaments have ended a combined 14-0 in favor of the winner.
DH Bucharest: Life 3-0 Impact
HSC IX: Taeja 4-0 MC
DH Summer: Taeja 3-0 HerO
MLG: Trap 4-0 Polt


Does HSC really count as a premier? Is there a definition for premier vs major? Does a tournament just need to offer WCS points to be a premier?


A lot of how premier an event is has to do with how much community prestige it has. HSC gets lots of attention, and thus even if it's prize pool isn't the greatest, it definitely is a premier event in the SC2 sphere.

you realize that HSC has the same prizepool that IEM or DreamHack right?


Hmm, definitely underestimated it, I was under the impression it was $10k-$15k, my bad.

It's 10k… for TaeJa
ModeratorI am still alive, somehow
TL+ Member
stefan16
Profile Joined June 2014
103 Posts
June 23 2014 03:30 GMT
#4962
Polt met his natural enemy . "Yes, you can snipe nexus but you have to pay dearly for that"
Starting from pool, then drop to loser bracket and made all the way to the top. Great run from Trap

Casters are ookay I think. Nathanias tends to play safe when commentating (not making prediction, step back when challenged) making his casting less interesting, but I think it's basically because he feels like the new kid between veterans in casting, so that made him slightly less confident.
Yhamm
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
France7248 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-23 03:32:19
June 23 2014 03:31 GMT
#4963
On June 23 2014 12:27 kaykoose wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 23 2014 12:22 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
On June 23 2014 12:22 kaykoose wrote:
On June 23 2014 12:17 Solar424 wrote:
Fun fact: the last 4 finals of Premier Tournaments have ended a combined 14-0 in favor of the winner.
DH Bucharest: Life 3-0 Impact
HSC IX: Taeja 4-0 MC
DH Summer: Taeja 3-0 HerO
MLG: Trap 4-0 Polt


Does HSC really count as a premier? Is there a definition for premier vs major? Does a tournament just need to offer WCS points to be a premier?


Liquipedia decided on a definition a long while back, and most people seem to stick to it.



Show nested quote +
On June 23 2014 12:24 FiWiFaKi wrote:
On June 23 2014 12:22 kaykoose wrote:
On June 23 2014 12:17 Solar424 wrote:
Fun fact: the last 4 finals of Premier Tournaments have ended a combined 14-0 in favor of the winner.
DH Bucharest: Life 3-0 Impact
HSC IX: Taeja 4-0 MC
DH Summer: Taeja 3-0 HerO
MLG: Trap 4-0 Polt


Does HSC really count as a premier? Is there a definition for premier vs major? Does a tournament just need to offer WCS points to be a premier?


A lot of how premier an event is has to do with how much community prestige it has. HSC gets lots of attention, and thus even if it's prize pool isn't the greatest, it definitely is a premier event in the SC2 sphere.


so no concrete rule on premier vs major? That's interesting. Thanks guys

Premiere: ~20000$ prize pool mini, need a certain amount of players with a pretty high quality of level, offline finals (hence why fragbite was not a premier)
Major: +5000$, less player, less quality

can always change, it wasnt always like this
LiquipediaWe will have only each other at the last
OrChard
Profile Joined February 2011
Hong Kong1119 Posts
June 23 2014 03:33 GMT
#4964
Where can i find the replay of mlg ?
Protosser
iS.Mike
Profile Joined September 2011
37 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-23 03:34:47
June 23 2014 03:34 GMT
#4965
On June 23 2014 12:26 Cheren wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 23 2014 12:17 iS.Mike wrote:
Protoss has won 8 out of 12 of the premier tournaments in 2014 and obtained 15 out of 24 of the top 2 finishes in those tournaments. Even at the end of Wings of Liberty, zerg didn't have this winning percentage. Someone care to explain these results without citing relative race strengths or is it necessary to address balance now?

Note this is just a question made about my observations, not a balance whine.


What's the point of this post? There was a very major patch, it's absurd to combine the results from before and after the patch.


The point is that every protoss who wins nowadays is hailed as one of the best, but there seems to be a trend where protoss are winning more often than other races. Can you honestly continue to say each and every protoss who wins is simply better than their opponent? Stardust himself admitted that protoss is better than zerg at the moment, and Scarlett actually beat DRG with her protoss offrace. It seems rather absurb that there isn't something being done to address this.

That being said, what patch are you talking about? The results have been consistent regardless.
KingofdaHipHop
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
United States25602 Posts
June 23 2014 03:34 GMT
#4966
On June 23 2014 12:33 OrChard wrote:
Where can i find the replay of mlg ?

I don't know but they're rebroadcasting on the main stream.
Rain | herO | sOs | Dear | Neeb | ByuN | INnoVation | Dream | ForGG | Maru | ByuL | Golden | Solar | Soulkey | Scarlett!!!
KelsierSC
Profile Blog Joined March 2013
United Kingdom10443 Posts
June 23 2014 03:34 GMT
#4967
On June 23 2014 12:34 iS.Mike wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 23 2014 12:26 Cheren wrote:
On June 23 2014 12:17 iS.Mike wrote:
Protoss has won 8 out of 12 of the premier tournaments in 2014 and obtained 15 out of 24 of the top 2 finishes in those tournaments. Even at the end of Wings of Liberty, zerg didn't have this winning percentage. Someone care to explain these results without citing relative race strengths or is it necessary to address balance now?

Note this is just a question made about my observations, not a balance whine.


What's the point of this post? There was a very major patch, it's absurd to combine the results from before and after the patch.


The point is that every protoss who wins nowadays is hailed as one of the best, but there seems to be a trend where protoss are winning more often than other races. Can you honestly continue to say each and every protoss who wins is simply better than their opponent? Stardust himself admitted that protoss is better than zerg at the moment, and Scarlett actually beat DRG with her protoss offrace. It seems rather absurb that there isn't something being done to address this.

That being said, what patch are you talking about? It seems that the results have been consistent regardless.


But you're not balance whining right?

That is good to know
Zerg for Life
iS.Mike
Profile Joined September 2011
37 Posts
June 23 2014 03:35 GMT
#4968
On June 23 2014 12:34 KelsierSC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 23 2014 12:34 iS.Mike wrote:
On June 23 2014 12:26 Cheren wrote:
On June 23 2014 12:17 iS.Mike wrote:
Protoss has won 8 out of 12 of the premier tournaments in 2014 and obtained 15 out of 24 of the top 2 finishes in those tournaments. Even at the end of Wings of Liberty, zerg didn't have this winning percentage. Someone care to explain these results without citing relative race strengths or is it necessary to address balance now?

Note this is just a question made about my observations, not a balance whine.


What's the point of this post? There was a very major patch, it's absurd to combine the results from before and after the patch.


The point is that every protoss who wins nowadays is hailed as one of the best, but there seems to be a trend where protoss are winning more often than other races. Can you honestly continue to say each and every protoss who wins is simply better than their opponent? Stardust himself admitted that protoss is better than zerg at the moment, and Scarlett actually beat DRG with her protoss offrace. It seems rather absurb that there isn't something being done to address this.

That being said, what patch are you talking about? It seems that the results have been consistent regardless.


But you're not balance whining right?

That is good to know

And you're not avoiding the issue?
The_Templar
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
your Country52798 Posts
June 23 2014 03:35 GMT
#4969
On June 23 2014 12:35 iS.Mike wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 23 2014 12:34 KelsierSC wrote:
On June 23 2014 12:34 iS.Mike wrote:
On June 23 2014 12:26 Cheren wrote:
On June 23 2014 12:17 iS.Mike wrote:
Protoss has won 8 out of 12 of the premier tournaments in 2014 and obtained 15 out of 24 of the top 2 finishes in those tournaments. Even at the end of Wings of Liberty, zerg didn't have this winning percentage. Someone care to explain these results without citing relative race strengths or is it necessary to address balance now?

Note this is just a question made about my observations, not a balance whine.


What's the point of this post? There was a very major patch, it's absurd to combine the results from before and after the patch.


The point is that every protoss who wins nowadays is hailed as one of the best, but there seems to be a trend where protoss are winning more often than other races. Can you honestly continue to say each and every protoss who wins is simply better than their opponent? Stardust himself admitted that protoss is better than zerg at the moment, and Scarlett actually beat DRG with her protoss offrace. It seems rather absurb that there isn't something being done to address this.

That being said, what patch are you talking about? It seems that the results have been consistent regardless.


But you're not balance whining right?

That is good to know

And you're not avoiding the issue?

What issue? You're not balance whining so there's no issue is there?
ModeratorI am still alive, somehow
TL+ Member
pichoo
Profile Joined May 2014
Australia123 Posts
June 23 2014 03:36 GMT
#4970
People complain Korean protosses who play in EU or NA were mostly cheesers / all in, like stardust, MC, San, etc etc.
Now we have real quality protoss player who plays solidly in all counts and people still complain because he won

Damn that was a solid play by Trap. I was wishing for Polt Scarlett final, to create the ultimate final drama. Oh well ...
pure.Wasted
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada4701 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-23 03:37:31
June 23 2014 03:36 GMT
#4971
On June 23 2014 12:34 KelsierSC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 23 2014 12:34 iS.Mike wrote:
On June 23 2014 12:26 Cheren wrote:
On June 23 2014 12:17 iS.Mike wrote:
Protoss has won 8 out of 12 of the premier tournaments in 2014 and obtained 15 out of 24 of the top 2 finishes in those tournaments. Even at the end of Wings of Liberty, zerg didn't have this winning percentage. Someone care to explain these results without citing relative race strengths or is it necessary to address balance now?

Note this is just a question made about my observations, not a balance whine.


What's the point of this post? There was a very major patch, it's absurd to combine the results from before and after the patch.


The point is that every protoss who wins nowadays is hailed as one of the best, but there seems to be a trend where protoss are winning more often than other races. Can you honestly continue to say each and every protoss who wins is simply better than their opponent? Stardust himself admitted that protoss is better than zerg at the moment, and Scarlett actually beat DRG with her protoss offrace. It seems rather absurb that there isn't something being done to address this.

That being said, what patch are you talking about? It seems that the results have been consistent regardless.


But you're not balance whining right?

That is good to know


Theoretically, at some point it stops being balance whine and becomes "balance stating the very obvious."

Like, if Zerglings are given 10,000 HP, it can't still be balance whine to point out that that is... egregious. Or 9,000. Or 8,000... just gotta find that sweet spot.

Theoretically!
INna Maru-da-FanTa, Bbaby, TY Dream that I'm Flashing you
Cheren
Profile Blog Joined September 2013
United States2911 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-23 03:38:29
June 23 2014 03:37 GMT
#4972
On June 23 2014 12:34 iS.Mike wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 23 2014 12:26 Cheren wrote:
On June 23 2014 12:17 iS.Mike wrote:
Protoss has won 8 out of 12 of the premier tournaments in 2014 and obtained 15 out of 24 of the top 2 finishes in those tournaments. Even at the end of Wings of Liberty, zerg didn't have this winning percentage. Someone care to explain these results without citing relative race strengths or is it necessary to address balance now?

Note this is just a question made about my observations, not a balance whine.


What's the point of this post? There was a very major patch, it's absurd to combine the results from before and after the patch.


The point is that every protoss who wins nowadays is hailed as one of the best, but there seems to be a trend where protoss are winning more often than other races. Can you honestly continue to say each and every protoss who wins is simply better than their opponent? Stardust himself admitted that protoss is better than zerg at the moment, and Scarlett actually beat DRG with her protoss offrace. It seems rather absurb that there isn't something being done to address this.

That being said, what patch are you talking about? The results have been consistent regardless.


The fuck? Protoss have not been winning more than Zerg since the patch, we've seen pretty even results between toss and zerg with terran behind both.

Zerg won Seatstory, DH Bucharest, and Lone Star Clash, Terran won DH Summer and Homestory, Protoss won IEM and this. Not counting GSL or WCS since most of the games were pre-patch.

The results have not been consistent, Protoss went from winning literally every tournament to winning two tournaments 3 months apart from each other.
FrostedMiniWheats
Profile Joined August 2010
United States30730 Posts
June 23 2014 03:38 GMT
#4973
I like that this video is still relevant after all this time xD

NesTea | Mvp | MC | Leenock | Losira | Gumiho | DRG | Taeja | Jinro | Stephano | Thorzain | Sen | Idra |Polt | Bomber | Symbol | Squirtle | Fantasy | Jaedong | Maru | sOs | Seed | ByuN | ByuL | Neeb| Scarlett | Rogue | IM forever
imrusty269
Profile Joined January 2014
United States1404 Posts
June 23 2014 03:38 GMT
#4974
On June 23 2014 12:37 Cheren wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 23 2014 12:34 iS.Mike wrote:
On June 23 2014 12:26 Cheren wrote:
On June 23 2014 12:17 iS.Mike wrote:
Protoss has won 8 out of 12 of the premier tournaments in 2014 and obtained 15 out of 24 of the top 2 finishes in those tournaments. Even at the end of Wings of Liberty, zerg didn't have this winning percentage. Someone care to explain these results without citing relative race strengths or is it necessary to address balance now?

Note this is just a question made about my observations, not a balance whine.


What's the point of this post? There was a very major patch, it's absurd to combine the results from before and after the patch.


The point is that every protoss who wins nowadays is hailed as one of the best, but there seems to be a trend where protoss are winning more often than other races. Can you honestly continue to say each and every protoss who wins is simply better than their opponent? Stardust himself admitted that protoss is better than zerg at the moment, and Scarlett actually beat DRG with her protoss offrace. It seems rather absurb that there isn't something being done to address this.

That being said, what patch are you talking about? The results have been consistent regardless.


The fuck? Protoss have not been winning more than Zerg since the patch, we've seen pretty even results between toss and zerg with terran behind both.

Zerg won Seatstory, DH Bucharest, and Lone Star Clash, Taeja won DH Summer and Homestory, Protoss won IEM and this. Not counting GSL or WCS since most of the games were pre-patch.


FTFY
Bbyong | MMA | Polt | Dream | Maru | Mvp
StarStruck
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
25339 Posts
June 23 2014 03:39 GMT
#4975
On June 23 2014 12:12 FiWiFaKi wrote:
What did you guys think of the MLG Player vs TwitchTV by the way?


I think the MLG player is better.
KelsierSC
Profile Blog Joined March 2013
United Kingdom10443 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-23 03:42:25
June 23 2014 03:41 GMT
#4976
On June 23 2014 12:35 iS.Mike wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 23 2014 12:34 KelsierSC wrote:
On June 23 2014 12:34 iS.Mike wrote:
On June 23 2014 12:26 Cheren wrote:
On June 23 2014 12:17 iS.Mike wrote:
Protoss has won 8 out of 12 of the premier tournaments in 2014 and obtained 15 out of 24 of the top 2 finishes in those tournaments. Even at the end of Wings of Liberty, zerg didn't have this winning percentage. Someone care to explain these results without citing relative race strengths or is it necessary to address balance now?

Note this is just a question made about my observations, not a balance whine.


What's the point of this post? There was a very major patch, it's absurd to combine the results from before and after the patch.


The point is that every protoss who wins nowadays is hailed as one of the best, but there seems to be a trend where protoss are winning more often than other races. Can you honestly continue to say each and every protoss who wins is simply better than their opponent? Stardust himself admitted that protoss is better than zerg at the moment, and Scarlett actually beat DRG with her protoss offrace. It seems rather absurb that there isn't something being done to address this.

That being said, what patch are you talking about? It seems that the results have been consistent regardless.


But you're not balance whining right?

That is good to know

And you're not avoiding the issue?


I have an issue with balance whine because it is fucking stupid

but you are not complaining about balance right so there is no problem.
Zerg for Life
RiskyChris
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
125 Posts
June 23 2014 03:42 GMT
#4977
On June 23 2014 12:34 KingofdaHipHop wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 23 2014 12:33 OrChard wrote:
Where can i find the replay of mlg ?

I don't know but they're rebroadcasting on the main stream.


I hope someone caps the Scarlett/DRG match because I swear to god if that accidentally is lost to time I will die.
pure.Wasted
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada4701 Posts
June 23 2014 03:43 GMT
#4978
On June 23 2014 12:41 KelsierSC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 23 2014 12:35 iS.Mike wrote:
On June 23 2014 12:34 KelsierSC wrote:
On June 23 2014 12:34 iS.Mike wrote:
On June 23 2014 12:26 Cheren wrote:
On June 23 2014 12:17 iS.Mike wrote:
Protoss has won 8 out of 12 of the premier tournaments in 2014 and obtained 15 out of 24 of the top 2 finishes in those tournaments. Even at the end of Wings of Liberty, zerg didn't have this winning percentage. Someone care to explain these results without citing relative race strengths or is it necessary to address balance now?

Note this is just a question made about my observations, not a balance whine.


What's the point of this post? There was a very major patch, it's absurd to combine the results from before and after the patch.


The point is that every protoss who wins nowadays is hailed as one of the best, but there seems to be a trend where protoss are winning more often than other races. Can you honestly continue to say each and every protoss who wins is simply better than their opponent? Stardust himself admitted that protoss is better than zerg at the moment, and Scarlett actually beat DRG with her protoss offrace. It seems rather absurb that there isn't something being done to address this.

That being said, what patch are you talking about? It seems that the results have been consistent regardless.


But you're not balance whining right?

That is good to know

And you're not avoiding the issue?


I have an issue with balance whine because it is fucking stupid


I'm working on a blog post about balance discussion. Care to share your thoughts? I'm very interested.
INna Maru-da-FanTa, Bbaby, TY Dream that I'm Flashing you
stuchiu
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
June 23 2014 03:43 GMT
#4979
On June 23 2014 12:38 imrusty269 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 23 2014 12:37 Cheren wrote:
On June 23 2014 12:34 iS.Mike wrote:
On June 23 2014 12:26 Cheren wrote:
On June 23 2014 12:17 iS.Mike wrote:
Protoss has won 8 out of 12 of the premier tournaments in 2014 and obtained 15 out of 24 of the top 2 finishes in those tournaments. Even at the end of Wings of Liberty, zerg didn't have this winning percentage. Someone care to explain these results without citing relative race strengths or is it necessary to address balance now?

Note this is just a question made about my observations, not a balance whine.


What's the point of this post? There was a very major patch, it's absurd to combine the results from before and after the patch.


The point is that every protoss who wins nowadays is hailed as one of the best, but there seems to be a trend where protoss are winning more often than other races. Can you honestly continue to say each and every protoss who wins is simply better than their opponent? Stardust himself admitted that protoss is better than zerg at the moment, and Scarlett actually beat DRG with her protoss offrace. It seems rather absurb that there isn't something being done to address this.

That being said, what patch are you talking about? The results have been consistent regardless.


The fuck? Protoss have not been winning more than Zerg since the patch, we've seen pretty even results between toss and zerg with terran behind both.

Zerg won Seatstory, DH Bucharest, and Lone Star Clash, Taeja won DH Summer and Homestory, Protoss won IEM and this. Not counting GSL or WCS since most of the games were pre-patch.


FTFY


Taeja is Terran. They are synonyms now.
Moderator
iS.Mike
Profile Joined September 2011
37 Posts
June 23 2014 03:46 GMT
#4980
On June 23 2014 12:41 KelsierSC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 23 2014 12:35 iS.Mike wrote:
On June 23 2014 12:34 KelsierSC wrote:
On June 23 2014 12:34 iS.Mike wrote:
On June 23 2014 12:26 Cheren wrote:
On June 23 2014 12:17 iS.Mike wrote:
Protoss has won 8 out of 12 of the premier tournaments in 2014 and obtained 15 out of 24 of the top 2 finishes in those tournaments. Even at the end of Wings of Liberty, zerg didn't have this winning percentage. Someone care to explain these results without citing relative race strengths or is it necessary to address balance now?

Note this is just a question made about my observations, not a balance whine.


What's the point of this post? There was a very major patch, it's absurd to combine the results from before and after the patch.


The point is that every protoss who wins nowadays is hailed as one of the best, but there seems to be a trend where protoss are winning more often than other races. Can you honestly continue to say each and every protoss who wins is simply better than their opponent? Stardust himself admitted that protoss is better than zerg at the moment, and Scarlett actually beat DRG with her protoss offrace. It seems rather absurb that there isn't something being done to address this.

That being said, what patch are you talking about? It seems that the results have been consistent regardless.


But you're not balance whining right?

That is good to know

And you're not avoiding the issue?


I have an issue with balance whine because it is fucking stupid

but you are not complaining about balance right so there is no problem.

You do realize that even if I'm not complaining about balance, you still haven't addressed the content of my post which is the 66% protoss winning percentage in premier events and the >50% top 2 finish of protosses in those events. You don't need to be so on guard about everything you perceive to be balance whine. Being aware of these statistics and being able to attribute them to external factors such as competition quality or race distribution is actually healthy for the state of sc2 and certainly more responsible than shutting down every time someone mentions balance.
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