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On April 13 2014 04:26 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2014 04:22 Undead1993 wrote:On April 13 2014 04:21 TotalBiscuit wrote:On April 13 2014 04:21 Undead1993 wrote:
are you not scared to be released from your team for the "fucks" part
It's good to be the king i miss idra  just wanted to make him relevant in sc2 for a sec MC doesn't miss idra so why should you?
i have a heart
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People obviously forgotten why protoss got nerfed in the first place. They were doing 2 base all ins all the time in almost every single game. Now, we act like they suddenly all in because they have no chance in a macro game even tough TvP basically never changed from WoL as far as unit compositions in the late game go (mines dont mean that much in the late game anyway). And those new mines only give terran their mid game advantage back that they also had in WoL. So it is basically the same matchup as WoL TvP except that protoss has better offensive and defensive options in the early game and their whole tech tree, including stargate is now viable against terran.
Terran was not broodlord-infestor in WoL and neither it is in Hots.
Also, if someone from community who speaks to pros comes to the forum and gives us protoss pro opinion, it would be good if he also included terran pro opinion to balance things out, because we only hear 1 side of the story, basically.
That being said, I guess we should all stop the balance talk and focus on the games...
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
Lets all relax. There are some distinct differences from the current PvT meta compared to Bl/infestor. Most notably protoss is coming off its largest winning streak ever. If they are shunted into a meta where they all feel like they cant play the late game, the gap between winning almost everything to losing most late games will always make it feel worse than it is.
Even during the worst eras of imbalance, there has always been af ew players that could fight it and eventually change the meta into their own favor for at least a bit.
Parting - Soul Train
Mvp - MechVZ, 3 base SCV pull, MechvT
DRG/Soulkey/Curious vs pre-patch mines.
First vs Hellbat Drops
Maru/Polt vs Protoss in the most recent 6 months.
Even now all of the MVP tosses all say Terran is still fairly beatable. sOs is still insane. Protoss have ben using crazy all-ins. And Ruin is re-inventing the immortal archon HT observor chargelot blink stalker style that every other Protoss abandoned once they realized the MSC could defend everything.
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On April 13 2014 04:27 robson1 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2014 04:27 Heavenlee wrote:On April 13 2014 04:26 maartendq wrote:On April 13 2014 04:23 TotalBiscuit wrote:On April 13 2014 04:23 wrier wrote:On April 13 2014 04:19 TheDwf wrote:
I can't believe people are seriously arguing Terran has the advantage in lategame TvP. Especially because we have very minimal late game pro level TvP televised matches to go off of since the recent patch. And why do you think that is? Because the downright ridiculous amount of stuff Protoss can get away with currently? To give another perspective: why would you tech to late game why you know that all-ins will be 80% in your favour even if they are scouted well in advance (and even if they fail you're still in a pretty decent position)? Yeah, that's why the winrate in PvT is 80%+ right? Makes sense. Oh wait, it's even if not terran favored last month. Based on what. Your Ladder with Protoss?
Based on actual statistics of pro games for premier and major tournaments according to aligulac. What is your opinion based off? Your ladder with terran? http://aligulac.com/misc/balance/
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On April 13 2014 04:27 robson1 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2014 04:27 Heavenlee wrote:On April 13 2014 04:26 maartendq wrote:On April 13 2014 04:23 TotalBiscuit wrote:On April 13 2014 04:23 wrier wrote:On April 13 2014 04:19 TheDwf wrote:
I can't believe people are seriously arguing Terran has the advantage in lategame TvP. Especially because we have very minimal late game pro level TvP televised matches to go off of since the recent patch. And why do you think that is? Because the downright ridiculous amount of stuff Protoss can get away with currently? To give another perspective: why would you tech to late game why you know that all-ins will be 80% in your favour even if they are scouted well in advance (and even if they fail you're still in a pretty decent position)? Yeah, that's why the winrate in PvT is 80%+ right? Makes sense. Oh wait, it's even if not terran favored last month. Based on what. Your Ladder with Protoss?
This :
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your Country52798 Posts
On April 13 2014 04:27 IntoTheheart wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2014 04:27 The_Templar wrote:
MMA TvP: 70.6% (12-5)
San PvT: 71.4% (5-2) Oh man one of these guys' winrates might just go down the toilet.
If MMA loses 2-3 his win rate is 14/22 = 63.6%
If San loses 2-3 his win rate is 7/12 = 58.3%
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On April 13 2014 04:28 Undead1993 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2014 04:26 Dodgin wrote:On April 13 2014 04:22 Undead1993 wrote:On April 13 2014 04:21 TotalBiscuit wrote:On April 13 2014 04:21 Undead1993 wrote:
are you not scared to be released from your team for the "fucks" part
It's good to be the king i miss idra just wanted to make him relevant in sc2 for a sec MC doesn't miss idra so why should you? i have a heart
MC has money.
ToD has swag.
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anyone knows what mouse is san using ?
the pale blue one
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This should be an amazing match! GOOOO MMA!
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On April 13 2014 04:23 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2014 04:23 wrier wrote:On April 13 2014 04:19 TheDwf wrote:
I can't believe people are seriously arguing Terran has the advantage in lategame TvP. Especially because we have very minimal late game pro level TvP televised matches to go off of since the recent patch. And why do you think that is?
Because Protoss has more success going all-in/aggressive compare to macro game? But still, that doesn't direct show that TvP late game is T favored.
If Protoss win 60% when they go all-in/aggressive and 50% in macro PvT, protoss player will still chose to go all-in since this gives them the best chance to win.
Like during the 1-1-1 era, terrans didn't keep doing the 1-1-1 because late game PvT was P favored. 1-1-1 just had a high win rate.
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50.27% 49.73%
On aligulac in BO5
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On April 13 2014 04:28 IntoTheheart wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2014 04:28 Undead1993 wrote:On April 13 2014 04:26 Dodgin wrote:On April 13 2014 04:22 Undead1993 wrote:On April 13 2014 04:21 TotalBiscuit wrote:On April 13 2014 04:21 Undead1993 wrote:
are you not scared to be released from your team for the "fucks" part
It's good to be the king i miss idra just wanted to make him relevant in sc2 for a sec MC doesn't miss idra so why should you? i have a heart MC has money. ToD has swag.
jjakji has terran tears in his eyes
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On April 13 2014 04:21 TotalBiscuit wrote:
After WCS is over I think I'll ask the team to write up some lengthier thoughts on this subject. Terran included.
That's pretty cool.
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On April 13 2014 04:28 SpawnMoarOverlords wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2014 04:27 robson1 wrote:On April 13 2014 04:27 Heavenlee wrote:On April 13 2014 04:26 maartendq wrote:On April 13 2014 04:23 TotalBiscuit wrote:On April 13 2014 04:23 wrier wrote:On April 13 2014 04:19 TheDwf wrote:
I can't believe people are seriously arguing Terran has the advantage in lategame TvP. Especially because we have very minimal late game pro level TvP televised matches to go off of since the recent patch. And why do you think that is? Because the downright ridiculous amount of stuff Protoss can get away with currently? To give another perspective: why would you tech to late game why you know that all-ins will be 80% in your favour even if they are scouted well in advance (and even if they fail you're still in a pretty decent position)? Yeah, that's why the winrate in PvT is 80%+ right? Makes sense. Oh wait, it's even if not terran favored last month. Based on what. Your Ladder with Protoss? This : https://twitter.com/Sc2Aligulac/status/455033433723768832
How skewed is my memory that Z's results are that good after release?
Woops wrong graph, found what I expected
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Who picked heavy rain as first map?
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
Seriously though, you guys should watch Ruin vs Reality. Really made me nostalgic for some old IM_Seed/IM_First PvT play.
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On April 13 2014 04:26 Caihead wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2014 04:20 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On April 13 2014 04:19 sage_francis wrote:On April 13 2014 04:12 TotalBiscuit wrote:On April 13 2014 04:10 Qwerty85 wrote:On April 13 2014 04:09 TotalBiscuit wrote:On April 13 2014 03:58 sage_francis wrote:
last 8 tvp's i watched (alicia vs bomber + this), protoss never take a third ^^ Why would they, they'll lose. You realise Rain wasn't just whining when he said Terran is OP in the matchup? He was referring to late game. Alicia and CranK told me the exact same thing, playing a macro game against a top Terran is suicide. Of course Protoss are trying to kill Terran before that point. The old "Broodlord/Infestor" analogy that Korean Protoss are making right now is surprisingly accurate. Back in the IPL5 days, Terran were trying to kill Zerg before BL/Infestor. Now Protoss are trying to kill Terran before 3/3 Biomine. You cant be serious TB. Yeah what would I know, I'm only posting the opinions of top Korean protoss players. I can't possibly know what's going on. LR threads smarter than progamers. Im not sure if alicia and crank are top korean protoss players tbh, but whatever, their opinion is kind of wothless without the opinion of their terrans counterparts. Alicia hasn't dropped a series in WCS AM this season, and has beaten Oz, Revival and Bomber. I think he knows a thing or two about this game. =) Top players make biased arguments all the time in terms of race, match-ups, maps, other progamers, etc, I don't think that proves or disproves anything.
Certainly, not contesting that in any way, but it's ridiculous to act like somehow Alicia's opinion isn't relevant or that he isn't a good player.
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On April 13 2014 04:29 Sent. wrote:
Who picked heavy rain as first map?
MMA no doubt. Reactor reaper maybe? Lots of ways to keep tabs on your opponent and a decently wide area to defend your third.
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I've seen terrans winning more in the late game recently without mines...
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EPT
