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On August 06 2013 07:38 Xantos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2013 07:34 IntoTheheart wrote:On August 06 2013 07:33 AlternativeEgo wrote:
Amazingly done by Grubby and I love the emotions, but it's just not the same without Mvp, you know. We still have the Duck... and MC. As well as MMA... maybe one of them will be able to take it. I'd like to see an MC vs. Duckdeok finals. Whilst I appreciate everyone who is a fan of (some or all) Korean players, I have little understanding how one can be SO biased towards Koreans. It's more entertaining (even for you, if you root for Koreans generally) & "better for the scene" if some non-Korean players do well and get far in big tournaments. Thx btw. at the players and the production crew - it was one of the most entertaining stream nights I've witnessed so far!
also better for the scene if we all donated 30k to every tournament
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On August 06 2013 07:40 Rhaegal wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2013 07:34 Xoronius wrote:
So... who is the favorite to win WCS EU now? I am almost tempted to say Naniwa, if he can make it out of his group. MMA has actually quietly been playing very well, and is creeping his way up ELO charts (kind of like San). He beat players in the WCG qualifiers better than any of the competition he'll face here. He is the favorite to win I think.
I was thinking about MMA as well, but while he shows improvement again lately, he still is far away from his 2011-level and he also lost to Hasu in Sc2L lately IIRC. So I am not entirely sure,since he also has a pretty hard group.
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On August 06 2013 07:55 xyzz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2013 07:44 Wombat_NI wrote:On August 06 2013 07:41 Entirety wrote:On August 06 2013 07:38 Xantos wrote:On August 06 2013 07:34 IntoTheheart wrote:On August 06 2013 07:33 AlternativeEgo wrote:
Amazingly done by Grubby and I love the emotions, but it's just not the same without Mvp, you know. We still have the Duck... and MC. As well as MMA... maybe one of them will be able to take it. I'd like to see an MC vs. Duckdeok finals. Whilst I appreciate everyone who is a fan of (some or all) Korean players, I have little understanding how one can be SO biased towards Koreans. It's more entertaining (even for you, if you root for Koreans generally) & "better for the scene" if some non-Korean players do well and get far in big tournaments. Thx btw. at the players and the production crew - it was one of the most entertaining stream nights I've witnessed so far! Hey, I'm Korean. There are foreigners who root for their own country no matter what... so why can't I do the same? Is it really that hard to understand bias towards Koreans? By all means that's fine. Just the chief argument of those who support Koreans are that they are merely doing so because they are the best players and that it is pure meritocracy. Ergo, to me it seems silly to stop watching a tournament when the lose, because by that previously established rationale, by losing to foreigners they aren't the best-performing players in that tournament I think the phenomenon has more to do with self-loathing and actually wanting to see your countrymen lose to the asian giants than with being westerner who is a fan of asian players. If you wonder why that is, there's plenty of explanations that vary from person to person, one popular one being the fact that since most people consider succeeding at Starcraft very hard and in fact suck in the game it's cool to believe there's absolutely no hope anyway since asians win everything always anyway.
That might hold for some, but I'd be wary of making generalisations since it's impossible to state all the reasons for liking a particular player, and just because people like Mvp doesn't mean they like all Koreans over all Europeans as mentioned above with the MC/MMA/Duck example.
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Northern Ireland27477 Posts
MMA's been gradually improving his level over months and months back to a good shape.
Kind of like Grubby's whole SC2 career. He's never made a huge jump that makes you think 'he's back', but he's quietly showing incremental improvement which bodes well.
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Germany187 Posts
On August 06 2013 07:41 Entirety wrote:
Hey, I'm Korean. There are foreigners who root for their own country no matter what... so why can't I do the same? Is it really that hard to understand bias towards Koreans?
You're welcome to do that.
Yet, I'd be surprised if all of the "I only want Koreans to win"-bracket were Koreans tbh! 
On the meritocracy thing:
In most other sports, it's deemed boring fandom to only support the best teams.
But you can chose that.
Yet, many Koreans are also based on past performance not better than many non-Koreans.
E.g. if you wished for the duckdeok vs MC final - where's the huge achievements that prove him stronger than e.g. HasuObs?
If there's no huge tournament results, I'd fall back to the Aligulac ranking - at least that's an unbiased measure!
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Foreign players tend to play better against korean players than against other foreigners so not having any koreans would be a real shame I think. A mix is definatly preferred imho.
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Talk about liquibet busting results
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
TL.net main page picture curse strikes again. Calling it now, Stephano somehow not getting out of Ro16.
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On August 06 2013 07:33 IntoTheheart wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2013 07:32 Tobblish wrote:On August 06 2013 07:29 IntoTheheart wrote:On August 06 2013 07:28 Tobblish wrote:On August 06 2013 07:26 IntoTheheart wrote:On August 06 2013 07:25 Tobblish wrote:On August 06 2013 07:23 IntoTheheart wrote:On August 06 2013 07:22 Dodgin wrote:
personally I'm not angry at the results, just sad about the fact that Mvp couldn't even advance in an easy group like this over someone he has beat down before(and in game 1). It's such a step down from when he was playing in korea in the finals of GSL 6 times. I'm sad that he's not that good anymore. Wrists probably have something to do with it. I really don't know why he hasn't gotten those dealt with. Is it the same thing as what happened to (SIIIIGH) Flash? MVP have several different injuries, not only his wrist. Iirc it's wrists, arm, neck and back problems that most of the time hurts and worse when playing. IIRC he also didn't wanna get those dealt with because he may as well retire or something like that right? Something about not wanting to take all that time off. He would have to take a year or so off and not practicing anything during that time so yeah he would drop down a lot, retirement would be a good choice if he did deal with it. Would you reckon that he could take a year off after S3 and then come back for LOTV? Ofc he could always come back but the effort and will that it would take as well as the time would be gigantic. When you have won so much and not getting younger I know what I would chose to do. On the other hand, he's not like NesTea or someone of that age, he's barely in his 20's. Heck, he's even younger than JaeDong.
He's even much younger than Bomber, and Bomber is still kicking serious asses.
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Wow, Mvp falls. Every season a solid Korean Terran falls in the Ro16. Hopefully this season MMA can take it all now.
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Mvp fans should be used to this fluctuation in Mvp's skill level by now. If his condition improves and he can get a lot of practice he can play at the top Korean level. If his condition worsen, he would be out of practice and can lose to anybody.
A very unfortunate thing for sc2 is that with this injury we will never get to see a full strength Mvp against the top Kespa players (which I would give Mvp an edge due to his experience and knowledge of strategies).
Is this possible that Mvp will not play in the Blizzcon? I just hope that can put out a great performance there. After that he should retire or focus on building the team using his experience & reputation. I don't think it's wise to keep competing while having this serious injury.
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HasuObs, I'm so happy ^_^
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Northern Ireland27477 Posts
Hasu's actually been pretty damn solid in HoTS, feel he's a very underrated player
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wow ! wtf he looked so good against ret.. then i had to stop watching when hasu and grubby were having the carrier game!
i can't believe it panned out like this.. great for EU players!
I like MvP but i'm very happy for grubby and hasu! good job guys
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Mvp noooooooo
At least i don't have to wake up at awful times to watch WCS EU.
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Funny how grubby lost the game where he won the first map and won both games where he lost the first map! he is a fighter ;D
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United States97277 Posts
I'd say I'm a little biased towards the korean players because that's pretty much all the starcraft I watched early on. However, I try to pick a few foreign players to support, too, to kind of even it out. I just didn't follow the EU scene that much in the early days and there was only a few relevant americans overall. I'd say I like Hasuobs though since he's been around for a while and he seems like a pretty chill guy. Also Hasuorbs too good so I was pleased to see him advance today.
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EPT
