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On June 07 2013 20:47 Shantastic wrote:
Saying that Innovation's 53% winrate, vs. top Korean Terrans and TvT snipers, can be compared to ForGG's 85%, which includes all kinds of foreign and third-tier KR pros, is ridiculous. Innovation's TvT is without a doubt enough to beat ForGG on both players' best day. It'll either be a great match, or Innovation will dominate. More likely the former IMO.
Agreed. Actually I think that among the remaining Terrans, ForGG's style matches up the worst against Innovation. ForGG has amazing killer sense, but with Innovation's solid style there won't be many windows of opportunity for ForGG to exploit; so it will probably come down to a war of maneuvers and positioning, which I don't think ForGG is particularly good at.
Alive can derp horribly every other match, but he actually has the tactical acumen to duke it out if it comes to that, so I think he has a chance vs Innovation if he doesn't do anything stupid in the early mid game. Mvp is Mvp - he did lose to Lucifron but to be fair he played like crap in that series; if he is on form tomorrow his game sense and superior positioning would favour him against ForGG's tempo-based style, and I think his skillset would give him a much better chance vs Innovation than ForGG in the semifinal.
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Political Correctness killing reason? Am I the only one who is massively sighing every time I see that almost everyone who qualified here is korean ? The best of each region ?
My view is, if you are korean, live in EU/NA and have a EU/NA sponsor, sure you should be able to qualify through this EU/NA events, however if you are korean, live in Korea and have a KR sponsor.....I mean what the hell ?......
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On June 07 2013 20:59 SChlafmann wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2013 20:56 forsooth wrote:On June 07 2013 20:54 opterown wrote:On June 07 2013 20:53 Zealously wrote:On June 07 2013 20:51 Lock0n wrote:
The only players that can beat innovation in a bo5 are Soulkey and flash, and the only players that can beat Soulkey in a bo5 are innovation and flash. Since flash is not here, the finals have already been decided. You wouldn't by any chance know the end score of the finals? And while you're at it, could you also tell me the peak viewer count? forgg wins, >200k viewers on twitch and 300k french people watch on dailymotion restream Why did you have to remind me about that terrible site and its even more terrible stream service? Biggest waste of space on the internet. Works pretty well in France and Europe...
I'm referring more to how utterly primitive and user-unfriendly its interface is. It makes youtube look like something from 50 years in the future.
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United States97276 Posts
(1795) Soulkey 0-0 RorO (1708)
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15.62% 3-0 0-3 9.83%
21.62% 3-1 1-3 15.88%
19.96% 3-2 2-3 17.10%
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57.19% 42.81%
Median outcome: Soulkey 3-2 RorO
(1794) sOs 0-0 Alicia (1608)
-----------------------------------------
19.74% 3-0 0-3 7.29%
24.74% 3-1 1-3 12.74%
20.67% 3-2 2-3 14.83%
-----------------------------------------
65.14% 34.86%
Median outcome: sOs 3-2 Alicia
(1910) Mvp 0-0 ForGG (2056)
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8.27% 3-0 0-3 17.97%
14.00% 3-1 1-3 23.49%
15.80% 3-2 2-3 20.47%
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38.07% 61.93%
Median outcome: Mvp 2-3 ForGG
(1883) INnoVation 0-0 aLive (1623)
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23.15% 3-0 0-3 5.75%
26.80% 3-1 1-3 10.59%
20.69% 3-2 2-3 13.01%
-------------------------------------------------
70.64% 29.36%
Median outcome: INnoVation 3-2 aLive
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On June 07 2013 21:01 bOneSeven wrote:
Political Correctness killing reason? Am I the only one who is massively sighing every time I see that almost everyone who qualified here is korean ? The best of each region ?
My view is, if you are korean, live in EU/NA and have a EU/NA sponsor, sure you should be able to qualify through this EU/NA events, however if you are korean, live in Korea and have a KR sponsor.....I mean what the hell ?......
tell that to the US teams (carried by their koreans...), and LGIM, forgg is a french resident for sometimes.
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Pretty strong Ro8. From these players I could see anyone go to win the whole thing except maybe aLive and Alicia, but they could also do it, if they play their best and get lucky etc.
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On June 07 2013 20:59 shadymmj wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2013 20:52 Shantastic wrote:On June 07 2013 20:51 Lock0n wrote:
The only players that can beat innovation in a bo5 are Soulkey and flash, and the only players that can beat Soulkey in a bo5 are innovation and flash. Since flash is not here, the finals have already been decided. I invite you to justify that lovely little absolute. Life, ForGG, Mvp, all have the capability of playing at Innovation's caliber in a bo5. TvT isn't volatile strategically. It's that the skill ceiling on Terran is so high at that level, that there is always an opportunity to outplay your opponent. And Mvp and ForGG have the ability to outplay any Terran at any time, as they've shown. life: no forgg: not enough data...could be, he's a very all-in-ish kind of player mvp: not now, maybe a couple years back that could be true let's relax though, in sc2, anybody can beat anybody
Of course Life can beat Innovation. I know he lost in GSL, but thinking he's outmatched is a little silly.
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This is pretty sick. I like watching TvT and PvP.
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FORGG mah boy !
You have the royal road ! THE ROYAL ROAD !
Win back that MSL championship glory !
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On June 07 2013 21:02 Shellshock1122 wrote:+ Show Spoiler + (1795) Soulkey 0-0 RorO (1708)
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15.62% 3-0 0-3 9.83%
21.62% 3-1 1-3 15.88%
19.96% 3-2 2-3 17.10%
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57.19% 42.81%
Median outcome: Soulkey 3-2 RorO (1794) sOs 0-0 Alicia (1608)
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19.74% 3-0 0-3 7.29%
24.74% 3-1 1-3 12.74%
20.67% 3-2 2-3 14.83%
-----------------------------------------
65.14% 34.86%
Median outcome: sOs 3-2 Alicia (1910) Mvp 0-0 ForGG (2056)
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8.27% 3-0 0-3 17.97%
14.00% 3-1 1-3 23.49%
15.80% 3-2 2-3 20.47%
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38.07% 61.93%
Median outcome: Mvp 2-3 ForGG (1883) INnoVation 0-0 aLive (1623)
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23.15% 3-0 0-3 5.75%
26.80% 3-1 1-3 10.59%
20.69% 3-2 2-3 13.01%
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70.64% 29.36%
Median outcome: INnoVation 3-2 aLive
all of them go to game 5, lots of games tomorrow!
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It's a bit silly of blizzard to not get them to rebroadcast this.
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On June 07 2013 20:59 shadymmj wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2013 20:52 Shantastic wrote:On June 07 2013 20:51 Lock0n wrote:
The only players that can beat innovation in a bo5 are Soulkey and flash, and the only players that can beat Soulkey in a bo5 are innovation and flash. Since flash is not here, the finals have already been decided. I invite you to justify that lovely little absolute. Life, ForGG, Mvp, all have the capability of playing at Innovation's caliber in a bo5. TvT isn't volatile strategically. It's that the skill ceiling on Terran is so high at that level, that there is always an opportunity to outplay your opponent. And Mvp and ForGG have the ability to outplay any Terran at any time, as they've shown. life: no forgg: not enough data...could be, he's a very all-in-ish kind of player mvp: not now, maybe a couple years back that could be true let's relax though, in sc2, anybody can beat anybody
I'm not talking about the "anyone can beat anyone" generality. Life isn't in WCS because he lost to Innovation in a Bo3 when Innovation was basically unbeatable in TvZ (he went 11-2 through semi-finals, only losing to Symbol's Roach-Bane all-ins). Before that, he took out Flash in a bo7 to win MLG. The reason you haven't heard from him since is that WCS has pretty much been the only thing going on, and Blizz made players commit to one region, and Life chose GSL. Just because we have the attention span of gnats doesn't mean Life isn't still a monster with the ability to beat any of the best players in the world.
Mvp just comes out and wins against the best players randomly. It's why he's still in the spotlight. There's no telling how well he'll play at any time.
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On June 07 2013 21:09 endy wrote:
KeSPA 4/4, gg.
+ MVP and forGG! I root for all my beloved BW a teamers.
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oh god i just saw the ro8 brackets... 4 mirror matches xD
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On June 07 2013 21:01 calh wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2013 20:47 Shantastic wrote:
Saying that Innovation's 53% winrate, vs. top Korean Terrans and TvT snipers, can be compared to ForGG's 85%, which includes all kinds of foreign and third-tier KR pros, is ridiculous. Innovation's TvT is without a doubt enough to beat ForGG on both players' best day. It'll either be a great match, or Innovation will dominate. More likely the former IMO. Agreed. Actually I think that among the remaining Terrans, ForGG's style matches up the worst against Innovation. ForGG has amazing killer sense, but with Innovation's solid style there won't be many windows of opportunity for ForGG to exploit; so it will probably come down to a war of maneuvers and positioning, which I don't think ForGG is particularly good at. Alive can derp horribly every other match, but he actually has the tactical acumen to duke it out if it comes to that, so I think he has a chance vs Innovation if he doesn't do anything stupid in the early mid game. Mvp is Mvp - he did lose to Lucifron but to be fair he played like crap in that series; if he is on form tomorrow his game sense and superior positioning would favour him against ForGG's tempo-based style, and I think his skillset would give him a much better chance vs Innovation than ForGG in the semifinal.
I have very small odds for aLive, honestly. At best, he'll play as well as Innovation in 3-4 games and just be humiliated in the others. And I've seen Innovation lose very few TvTs where he and his opponent played equally well. It's his mechanical tenacity, I think, that's why he's the best macro player in the world right now. It's not a certainty, but I don't see Innovation even dropping a 2nd set vs aLive. Likely a 3-0 even.
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Russian Federation398 Posts
what THE FUCK is this bracket?? mirror all day evey day? idiots, pf. spoiled the tournament.
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On June 07 2013 21:08 opterown wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2013 21:02 Shellshock1122 wrote:+ Show Spoiler + (1795) Soulkey 0-0 RorO (1708)
-------------------------------------------
15.62% 3-0 0-3 9.83%
21.62% 3-1 1-3 15.88%
19.96% 3-2 2-3 17.10%
-------------------------------------------
57.19% 42.81%
Median outcome: Soulkey 3-2 RorO (1794) sOs 0-0 Alicia (1608)
-----------------------------------------
19.74% 3-0 0-3 7.29%
24.74% 3-1 1-3 12.74%
20.67% 3-2 2-3 14.83%
-----------------------------------------
65.14% 34.86%
Median outcome: sOs 3-2 Alicia (1910) Mvp 0-0 ForGG (2056)
---------------------------------------
8.27% 3-0 0-3 17.97%
14.00% 3-1 1-3 23.49%
15.80% 3-2 2-3 20.47%
---------------------------------------
38.07% 61.93%
Median outcome: Mvp 2-3 ForGG (1883) INnoVation 0-0 aLive (1623)
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23.15% 3-0 0-3 5.75%
26.80% 3-1 1-3 10.59%
20.69% 3-2 2-3 13.01%
-------------------------------------------------
70.64% 29.36%
Median outcome: INnoVation 3-2 aLive all of them go to game 5, lots of games tomorrow!
These median results will consistently overestimate match length. It wasn't designed with that in mind.
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and then aLive comes in, stomps Innovation 3-0, Thor drops the shit out of Forgg, gets to the finals againt Soulkey and 2raxes him to death.
Make it happen, that's how history is made
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WTF, how we managed to get 2 TvT, 1 PvP, 1 ZvZ in Ro8 from the 8 zerg/5 terran/3 protoss.
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EPT
