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Active: 2137 users

[ATC] ROOT vs Axiom, Week 5

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
Post a Reply
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SinCitta
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Germany2127 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-23 16:28:05
April 23 2013 11:17 GMT
#1

[image loading]
(Wiki)Acer TeamStory Cup/Group Stage
[image loading]
Acer TeamStory Cup - The Story So Far






Today's match ROOT Gaming vs. Axiom eSports will start at 14:00 GMT (+00:00). Both teams are neighbors in the current standings with Axiom having played one game less. It's an oppurtunity for both of the teams to climb up and leave a direct competitor behind.

Tuesday, Apr 23 2:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00)

[image loading][image loading][image loading]

(T)Drewbie <Neo Planet S LE> (P)Alicia
<Daybreak LE>
<Ohana LE>
<Akilon Wastes>
<Whirlwind LE>
<Newkirk Precinct>
<Belshir Vestige LE>
<Cloud Kingdom LE>
<ESL Star Station (cross only)>

+ Show Spoiler [Overall Results] +


(T)Drewbie <Neo Planet S LE> (P)Alicia
(Z)CatZ <Daybreak LE> (P)Alicia
(P)Sage <Ohana LE> (P)Alicia
(Z)YugiOh <Akilon Wastes> (P)Alicia
(Z)YugiOh <Whirlwind LE> (T)Heart
(Z)YugiOh <Newkirk Precinct> (T)Ryung

ROOT uses its ace revive and revives YugiOh

(Z)YugiOh <Belshir Vestige LE> (T)Ryung
<Cloud Kingdom LE>
<ESL Star Station (cross only)>

2-5
finished

Ryung shuts down the rebelling YugiOh. See you tomorrow with mouz vs MVP!








Poll: Head?

Axiom (24)
 
86%

ROOT (4)
 
14%

28 total votes

Your vote: Head?

(Vote): ROOT
(Vote): Axiom


Poll: Heart?

Axiom (17)
 
61%

ROOT (11)
 
39%

28 total votes

Your vote: Heart?

(Vote): ROOT
(Vote): Axiom







Matchdays and Standings:
  • Standings
  • Matchlink


Streams:
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br PedrocaTV
Venomsflame
Profile Joined February 2011
United States613 Posts
April 23 2013 11:33 GMT
#2
Why have I never heard of this before... There are some great teams in this league!
opterown *
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Australia54784 Posts
April 23 2013 12:26 GMT
#3
team sage fighting
ModeratorRetired LR Bonjwa
TL+ Member
AlternativeEgo
Profile Joined August 2011
Sweden17309 Posts
April 23 2013 14:12 GMT
#4
Haven't seen Drewbie in a long time. Interesting.
Mark Munoz looks like Gretorp
MasterOfPuppets
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Romania6942 Posts
April 23 2013 14:17 GMT
#5
I was a little worried there for a moment. GJ Alicia. ^^
"my shaft scares me too" - strenx 2014
JoeHannes
Profile Joined February 2012
Germany207 Posts
April 23 2013 14:17 GMT
#6
TotalBiscuit stream is so damn smooth. 60fps, right?
Dodgin
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada39254 Posts
April 23 2013 14:17 GMT
#7
TB casts really well on 0 sleep
Shellshock
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States97276 Posts
April 23 2013 14:22 GMT
#8
Show me those swarm hosts, CatZ
Moderatorhttp://i.imgur.com/U4xwqmD.png
TL+ Member
kubiks
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
France1328 Posts
April 23 2013 14:30 GMT
#9
Ahah TB is funny to listen : "you can add phenix to counter hydras"
Juanald you're my hero I miss you -> best troll ever on TL <3
AxionSteel
Profile Joined January 2011
United States7754 Posts
April 23 2013 14:31 GMT
#10
K, CatZ says this style is ezpz for him to beat, especially on this map. Let me see it.

kubiks
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
France1328 Posts
April 23 2013 14:32 GMT
#11
Catz looks to do the right thing : queens and swarmhosts
Juanald you're my hero I miss you -> best troll ever on TL <3
MasterOfPuppets
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Romania6942 Posts
April 23 2013 14:33 GMT
#12
On April 23 2013 23:30 kubiks wrote:
Ahah TB is funny to listen : "you can add phenix to counter hydras"


If the hydras are in relatively low numbers, that's actually very true... ~.~
"my shaft scares me too" - strenx 2014
TotalBiscuit
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United Kingdom5437 Posts
April 23 2013 14:34 GMT
#13
On April 23 2013 23:30 kubiks wrote:
Ahah TB is funny to listen : "you can add phenix to counter hydras"


Because I'm right, you can.

Anyone who thinks hydras actually counter phoenix is completely wrong.
CommentatorHost of SHOUTcraft Clan Wars- http://www.mlg.tv/shoutcraft
AlternativeEgo
Profile Joined August 2011
Sweden17309 Posts
April 23 2013 14:34 GMT
#14
Both captains are down. Time to send out the new guys.
Mark Munoz looks like Gretorp
nunez
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Norway4003 Posts
April 23 2013 14:34 GMT
#15
rotterdam said catz said he doesn't lose to skytoss, but alicia is on another level.
conspired against by a confederacy of dunces.
Dodgin
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada39254 Posts
April 23 2013 14:34 GMT
#16
On April 23 2013 23:31 AxionSteel wrote:
K, CatZ says this style is ezpz for him to beat, especially on this map. Let me see it.



Well maybe when facing players of equal skill level.
BeiHuoJingHua
Profile Joined April 2013
32 Posts
April 23 2013 14:35 GMT
#17
I enjoy this
Laryleprakon
Profile Joined May 2011
New Zealand9496 Posts
April 23 2013 14:35 GMT
#18
Interesting choices from ROOT so far. Would be fun to see one of there Koreans or even Kane.
Yunarc
Profile Joined March 2011
United States314 Posts
April 23 2013 14:35 GMT
#19
Man 15 void rays that looked brutal for CatZ
neversleeping
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
117 Posts
April 23 2013 14:37 GMT
#20
CatZ: "I actually think ZvP favors Zerg" hehe.

Really though, seeing such a separation between Alica's level and the level of the ROOT foreign contingent.
DifuntO
Profile Joined November 2011
Greece2376 Posts
April 23 2013 14:37 GMT
#21
Alicia likes void rays it seems
All I do is Stim.
kubiks
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
France1328 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-23 14:41:57
April 23 2013 14:39 GMT
#22
On April 23 2013 23:34 TotalBiscuit wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 23 2013 23:30 kubiks wrote:
Ahah TB is funny to listen : "you can add phenix to counter hydras"


Because I'm right, you can.

Anyone who thinks hydras actually counter phoenix is completely wrong.


Well it depends on the numbers of each side (when few hydras phenixs does well), but when you want to counter hydras you think about psi storm and collosus. I'm pretty sure cost for cost hydras are better than phenix, and due to higher range the scaling is better for hydras.
And as the player will probably have a lot of hydras (agaisnt mass vr), phenix looks a bit silly.
Anyway Catz was too behind in economy after the third kill and the failed attack, so alicia had just to roll .
Juanald you're my hero I miss you -> best troll ever on TL <3
kubiks
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
France1328 Posts
April 23 2013 14:41 GMT
#23
On April 23 2013 23:34 Dodgin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 23 2013 23:31 AxionSteel wrote:
K, CatZ says this style is ezpz for him to beat, especially on this map. Let me see it.



Well maybe when facing players of equal skill level.


After the third kill and the fail attack, alicia could have done a collosus push and still roll Catz
Juanald you're my hero I miss you -> best troll ever on TL <3
Roqshu
Profile Joined July 2011
Germany112 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-23 14:43:33
April 23 2013 14:43 GMT
#24
On April 23 2013 23:34 TotalBiscuit wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 23 2013 23:30 kubiks wrote:
Ahah TB is funny to listen : "you can add phenix to counter hydras"


Because I'm right, you can.

Anyone who thinks hydras actually counter phoenix is completely wrong.


Oh boy.
You can pick up hydras in very small numbers, but as soon as the zerg commits to larger numbers of hydras, phoenixes die faster than you can pick up any hydras.
So yes, Hydras counter phoenix.
neversleeping
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
117 Posts
April 23 2013 14:43 GMT
#25
Everyone leave TB alone, bro is in Platinum & clearly knows what he's talking about.
AxionSteel
Profile Joined January 2011
United States7754 Posts
April 23 2013 14:47 GMT
#26
hype into faceroll
Topdoller
Profile Joined March 2011
United Kingdom3860 Posts
April 23 2013 14:48 GMT
#27
On April 23 2013 23:43 neversleeping wrote:
Everyone leave TB alone, bro is in Platinum & clearly knows what he's talking about.



Taking TBs commentary out of context then shitting all over him shows what you are all about dont it
Shellshock
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States97276 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-23 14:48:43
April 23 2013 14:48 GMT
#28
does sage not see the dark shrine? I thought he got close enough. oh nvm oracle
Moderatorhttp://i.imgur.com/U4xwqmD.png
TL+ Member
MasterOfPuppets
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Romania6942 Posts
April 23 2013 14:49 GMT
#29
On April 23 2013 23:43 Roqshu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 23 2013 23:34 TotalBiscuit wrote:
On April 23 2013 23:30 kubiks wrote:
Ahah TB is funny to listen : "you can add phenix to counter hydras"


Because I'm right, you can.

Anyone who thinks hydras actually counter phoenix is completely wrong.


Oh boy.
You can pick up hydras in very small numbers, but as soon as the zerg commits to larger numbers of hydras, phoenixes die faster than you can pick up any hydras.
So yes, Hydras counter phoenix.


It all depends on numbers. If the Zerg has more than twice as many hydras as there are phoenixes, of course you're going to witness a massacre. But if the numbers are comparable, and the Protoss has pretty good micro, he will most likely win the fight. Sure, with fairly heavy losses, but he wins it. Phoenixes are both more durable, more mobile and have higher dps compared to hydras.

On April 23 2013 23:43 neversleeping wrote:
Everyone leave TB alone, bro is in Platinum & clearly knows what he's talking about.


You're a dumbass.
"my shaft scares me too" - strenx 2014
Yunarc
Profile Joined March 2011
United States314 Posts
April 23 2013 14:50 GMT
#30
wow Alicia so sick
Shellshock
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States97276 Posts
April 23 2013 14:50 GMT
#31
Alicia all kill incoming
Moderatorhttp://i.imgur.com/U4xwqmD.png
TL+ Member
theBALLS
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Singapore2935 Posts
April 23 2013 14:50 GMT
#32
omg alicia. how in the world did sage not defend that
If you lose the stick, you'll always have theBALLS.
Laryleprakon
Profile Joined May 2011
New Zealand9496 Posts
April 23 2013 14:50 GMT
#33
Nice little come back from Alica!
Psyclon
Profile Joined July 2010
Bulgaria2443 Posts
April 23 2013 14:50 GMT
#34
What an excellent game by Alicia!
Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds!
AxionSteel
Profile Joined January 2011
United States7754 Posts
April 23 2013 14:50 GMT
#35
wow, can't believe sage lost that!
Topdoller
Profile Joined March 2011
United Kingdom3860 Posts
April 23 2013 14:51 GMT
#36
wow Alicia !! how the hell did you win that. good game
SinCitta
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Germany2127 Posts
April 23 2013 14:51 GMT
#37
Doesn't look like an overlap with WCS EU
city42
Profile Joined October 2007
1656 Posts
April 23 2013 14:51 GMT
#38
So, um, why did Sage not kill the one pylon powering all the gates?
Dodgin
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada39254 Posts
April 23 2013 14:51 GMT
#39
Sage must not have realized the only way Alicia was possibly going to win the game from that position where he was only alive because of nexus cannon was because he had a DT shrine building
cravin74
Profile Joined June 2011
Malaysia1088 Posts
April 23 2013 14:52 GMT
#40
Why didn't Sage bring his probes to Alica's base?
nickbalev
Profile Joined March 2011
Bulgaria241 Posts
April 23 2013 14:52 GMT
#41
that game did not disappoint i was sure he was so dead
noipe
DamageControL
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States4222 Posts
April 23 2013 14:52 GMT
#42
alicia jesus.
Liquid | SKT
Lukeeze[zR]
Profile Joined February 2006
Switzerland6838 Posts
April 23 2013 14:53 GMT
#43
These games remind me how good alicia was before the slayers debacle.
Terran & Potato Salad.
TotalBiscuit
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United Kingdom5437 Posts
April 23 2013 14:53 GMT
#44
Gotta love how people took me out of context in the first place. I said putting a few phoenixes into the mix is very helpful against Hydras and suddenly a couple of people are claiming I said "Phoenix hard counter mass hydra".
CommentatorHost of SHOUTcraft Clan Wars- http://www.mlg.tv/shoutcraft
AxionSteel
Profile Joined January 2011
United States7754 Posts
April 23 2013 14:53 GMT
#45
On April 23 2013 23:51 Dodgin wrote:
Sage must not have realized the only way Alicia was possibly going to win the game from that position where he was only alive because of nexus cannon was because he had a DT shrine building

Wasn't it building in clear view of his stalkers?

nunez
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Norway4003 Posts
April 23 2013 14:53 GMT
#46
On April 23 2013 23:53 Lukeeze[zR] wrote:
These games remind me how good alicia was before the slayers debacle.


axiom should pick up coca as well... miss him.
conspired against by a confederacy of dunces.
DamageControL
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States4222 Posts
April 23 2013 14:53 GMT
#47
On April 23 2013 23:53 Lukeeze[zR] wrote:
These games remind me how good alicia was before the slayers debacle.

I think it's also the gap between a lower tier pro and an upper tier one.
Liquid | SKT
Shellshock
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States97276 Posts
April 23 2013 14:54 GMT
#48
On April 23 2013 23:53 Lukeeze[zR] wrote:
These games remind me how good alicia was before the slayers debacle.

and now that he can actually beat zergs in HoTS maybe he can compete for some decent money in WCS NA
Moderatorhttp://i.imgur.com/U4xwqmD.png
TL+ Member
Dodgin
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada39254 Posts
April 23 2013 14:54 GMT
#49
On April 23 2013 23:53 AxionSteel wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 23 2013 23:51 Dodgin wrote:
Sage must not have realized the only way Alicia was possibly going to win the game from that position where he was only alive because of nexus cannon was because he had a DT shrine building

Wasn't it building in clear view of his stalkers?



That's even worse if true -_- I imagine he didn't see it, but I know the #1 thing going through my head at that moment when I'm just waiting for nexus cannon to end to move in and end the game is to get detection just in case.
Yunarc
Profile Joined March 2011
United States314 Posts
April 23 2013 14:55 GMT
#50
On April 23 2013 23:53 AxionSteel wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 23 2013 23:51 Dodgin wrote:
Sage must not have realized the only way Alicia was possibly going to win the game from that position where he was only alive because of nexus cannon was because he had a DT shrine building

Wasn't it building in clear view of his stalkers?


I think so, but he did build oracles to detect, but he needed them with his stalkers and could not afford to have one in his main
Topdoller
Profile Joined March 2011
United Kingdom3860 Posts
April 23 2013 14:55 GMT
#51
On April 23 2013 23:53 TotalBiscuit wrote:
Gotta love how people took me out of context in the first place. I said putting a few phoenixes into the mix is very helpful against Hydras and suddenly a couple of people are claiming I said "Phoenix hard counter mass hydra".



I feel sorry for casters in general, too many people trying to shoot them down with hate. Keep up the good work TB !!!
AxionSteel
Profile Joined January 2011
United States7754 Posts
April 23 2013 14:57 GMT
#52
On April 23 2013 23:55 Yunarc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 23 2013 23:53 AxionSteel wrote:
On April 23 2013 23:51 Dodgin wrote:
Sage must not have realized the only way Alicia was possibly going to win the game from that position where he was only alive because of nexus cannon was because he had a DT shrine building

Wasn't it building in clear view of his stalkers?


I think so, but he did build oracles to detect, but he needed them with his stalkers and could not afford to have one in his main

yeh but he could've built the oracles earlier. If the building was where i think it was, he could've even built a robo in time. Maybe he thought it was a pylon or something as it was in that kind of position.
kubiks
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
France1328 Posts
April 23 2013 14:58 GMT
#53
On April 23 2013 23:49 MasterOfPuppets wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 23 2013 23:43 Roqshu wrote:
On April 23 2013 23:34 TotalBiscuit wrote:
On April 23 2013 23:30 kubiks wrote:
Ahah TB is funny to listen : "you can add phenix to counter hydras"


Because I'm right, you can.

Anyone who thinks hydras actually counter phoenix is completely wrong.


Oh boy.
You can pick up hydras in very small numbers, but as soon as the zerg commits to larger numbers of hydras, phoenixes die faster than you can pick up any hydras.
So yes, Hydras counter phoenix.


It all depends on numbers. If the Zerg has more than twice as many hydras as there are phoenixes, of course you're going to witness a massacre. But if the numbers are comparable, and the Protoss has pretty good micro, he will most likely win the fight. Sure, with fairly heavy losses, but he wins it. Phoenixes are both more durable, more mobile and have higher dps compared to hydras.


Yeah, but here it was in the context of "I'm going for mass vr, maybe get some phenix to counter hydras"
Anyway I think phenix openings are the strongest openings a protoss can do, but seeing them as a "support unit to counter hydra" sounds wierd.
Juanald you're my hero I miss you -> best troll ever on TL <3
nihlon
Profile Joined April 2010
Sweden5581 Posts
April 23 2013 14:58 GMT
#54
On April 23 2013 23:54 Dodgin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 23 2013 23:53 AxionSteel wrote:
On April 23 2013 23:51 Dodgin wrote:
Sage must not have realized the only way Alicia was possibly going to win the game from that position where he was only alive because of nexus cannon was because he had a DT shrine building

Wasn't it building in clear view of his stalkers?



That's even worse if true -_- I imagine he didn't see it, but I know the #1 thing going through my head at that moment when I'm just waiting for nexus cannon to end to move in and end the game is to get detection just in case.

I did just catch all of the end there but wasn't this what he was doing? I though he had an oracle building while he waited for the nexus canon to end? Maybe he didn't move in fast enough.
Banelings are too cute to blow up
Yunarc
Profile Joined March 2011
United States314 Posts
April 23 2013 14:59 GMT
#55
On April 23 2013 23:57 AxionSteel wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 23 2013 23:55 Yunarc wrote:
On April 23 2013 23:53 AxionSteel wrote:
On April 23 2013 23:51 Dodgin wrote:
Sage must not have realized the only way Alicia was possibly going to win the game from that position where he was only alive because of nexus cannon was because he had a DT shrine building

Wasn't it building in clear view of his stalkers?


I think so, but he did build oracles to detect, but he needed them with his stalkers and could not afford to have one in his main

yeh but he could've built the oracles earlier. If the building was where i think it was, he could've even built a robo in time. Maybe he thought it was a pylon or something as it was in that kind of position.

Yeah not sure what he was thinking
Shellshock
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States97276 Posts
April 23 2013 14:59 GMT
#56
so did YugiOh decide to not change his ID after all or did he just not come up with something new, yet?
Moderatorhttp://i.imgur.com/U4xwqmD.png
TL+ Member
AxionSteel
Profile Joined January 2011
United States7754 Posts
April 23 2013 15:00 GMT
#57
On April 23 2013 23:58 kubiks wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 23 2013 23:49 MasterOfPuppets wrote:
On April 23 2013 23:43 Roqshu wrote:
On April 23 2013 23:34 TotalBiscuit wrote:
On April 23 2013 23:30 kubiks wrote:
Ahah TB is funny to listen : "you can add phenix to counter hydras"


Because I'm right, you can.

Anyone who thinks hydras actually counter phoenix is completely wrong.


Oh boy.
You can pick up hydras in very small numbers, but as soon as the zerg commits to larger numbers of hydras, phoenixes die faster than you can pick up any hydras.
So yes, Hydras counter phoenix.


It all depends on numbers. If the Zerg has more than twice as many hydras as there are phoenixes, of course you're going to witness a massacre. But if the numbers are comparable, and the Protoss has pretty good micro, he will most likely win the fight. Sure, with fairly heavy losses, but he wins it. Phoenixes are both more durable, more mobile and have higher dps compared to hydras.


Yeah, but here it was in the context of "I'm going for mass vr, maybe get some phenix to counter hydras"
Anyway I think phenix openings are the strongest openings a protoss can do, but seeing them as a "support unit to counter hydra" sounds wierd.


omg your signature. Juanald was such a heroic troll, i was a massive fan of his as well.
kubiks
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
France1328 Posts
April 23 2013 15:00 GMT
#58
On April 23 2013 23:53 TotalBiscuit wrote:
Gotta love how people took me out of context in the first place. I said putting a few phoenixes into the mix is very helpful against Hydras and suddenly a couple of people are claiming I said "Phoenix hard counter mass hydra".


I have to say I never saw a protoss "put some phoenix in the mix" in this kind of composition (if it wasn't the phenix he did in the beggining of the game), but if you witnessed it often I apologize
Juanald you're my hero I miss you -> best troll ever on TL <3
kubiks
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
France1328 Posts
April 23 2013 15:11 GMT
#59
Haha yugiyo : "it's Hots ? Well, I can still mass infestors, it's ok ?"
Juanald you're my hero I miss you -> best troll ever on TL <3
Shellshock
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States97276 Posts
April 23 2013 15:13 GMT
#60
ROOTFreaky?
Moderatorhttp://i.imgur.com/U4xwqmD.png
TL+ Member
StarVe
Profile Joined June 2011
Germany13591 Posts
April 23 2013 15:14 GMT
#61
monobattles
AlternativeEgo
Profile Joined August 2011
Sweden17309 Posts
April 23 2013 15:14 GMT
#62
Holy crap, haven't seen infestors in that amount in some time
Mark Munoz looks like Gretorp
Kasaraki
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Denmark7115 Posts
April 23 2013 15:16 GMT
#63
Yugioh is a mad man.
Shellshock
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States97276 Posts
April 23 2013 15:17 GMT
#64
SICK FUNGALS!!
Moderatorhttp://i.imgur.com/U4xwqmD.png
TL+ Member
AlternativeEgo
Profile Joined August 2011
Sweden17309 Posts
April 23 2013 15:17 GMT
#65
oooooh..one fungal short
Mark Munoz looks like Gretorp
Kasaraki
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Denmark7115 Posts
April 23 2013 15:17 GMT
#66
So lucky to get away with this near-dead Void Rays, hah.
Amestir
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Netherlands2126 Posts
April 23 2013 15:18 GMT
#67
Tempest are going to zone out the infestors.
We know nothing.
StarVe
Profile Joined June 2011
Germany13591 Posts
April 23 2013 15:18 GMT
#68
monobattles still win against an army consisting of the giant number of two different unit types
Kasaraki
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Denmark7115 Posts
April 23 2013 15:18 GMT
#69
12 infestors in production.
Topdoller
Profile Joined March 2011
United Kingdom3860 Posts
April 23 2013 15:19 GMT
#70
YugiOh plan for Mass SkyToss looks good and could be the way forward,its shame ZvP is still a disaster after 3 years and 1 expansion
nunez
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Norway4003 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-23 15:21:53
April 23 2013 15:19 GMT
#71
nicely done yugioh!

+ Show Spoiler +
conspired against by a confederacy of dunces.
AxionSteel
Profile Joined January 2011
United States7754 Posts
April 23 2013 15:20 GMT
#72
So infestor still pretty good !

Nice game from YugiOh
kubiks
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
France1328 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-23 15:32:01
April 23 2013 15:20 GMT
#73
On April 24 2013 00:00 AxionSteel wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 23 2013 23:58 kubiks wrote:
On April 23 2013 23:49 MasterOfPuppets wrote:
On April 23 2013 23:43 Roqshu wrote:
On April 23 2013 23:34 TotalBiscuit wrote:
On April 23 2013 23:30 kubiks wrote:
Ahah TB is funny to listen : "you can add phenix to counter hydras"


Because I'm right, you can.

Anyone who thinks hydras actually counter phoenix is completely wrong.


Oh boy.
You can pick up hydras in very small numbers, but as soon as the zerg commits to larger numbers of hydras, phoenixes die faster than you can pick up any hydras.
So yes, Hydras counter phoenix.


It all depends on numbers. If the Zerg has more than twice as many hydras as there are phoenixes, of course you're going to witness a massacre. But if the numbers are comparable, and the Protoss has pretty good micro, he will most likely win the fight. Sure, with fairly heavy losses, but he wins it. Phoenixes are both more durable, more mobile and have higher dps compared to hydras.


Yeah, but here it was in the context of "I'm going for mass vr, maybe get some phenix to counter hydras"
Anyway I think phenix openings are the strongest openings a protoss can do, but seeing them as a "support unit to counter hydra" sounds wierd.


omg your signature. Juanald was such a heroic troll, i was a massive fan of his as well.


It's the first time someone calls me on that, I thought nobody noticed . I miss him so much, but he got nuked for GLORY.

Edit : for completeness, some post from this guy (it was 1.5 years ago)
+ Show Spoiler +


wow this is very impressive i feel like nanawa is channeling his teamate coL.CruncHer right now.. i guess this is what happens when u practice in the same team house



Ya i dont want to try to discredit stephanos first lan but thestc is no IMmvp/OGSnada/EG.lZgAmEr/coL.Drewbie.

User was temp banned for this post.

Juanald you're my hero I miss you -> best troll ever on TL <3
DamageControL
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States4222 Posts
April 23 2013 15:21 GMT
#74
Wow. First time watching HoTS seriously--that skytoss army looks crazy.
Liquid | SKT
ZenithM
Profile Joined February 2011
France15952 Posts
April 23 2013 15:27 GMT
#75
On April 24 2013 00:00 AxionSteel wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 23 2013 23:58 kubiks wrote:
On April 23 2013 23:49 MasterOfPuppets wrote:
On April 23 2013 23:43 Roqshu wrote:
On April 23 2013 23:34 TotalBiscuit wrote:
On April 23 2013 23:30 kubiks wrote:
Ahah TB is funny to listen : "you can add phenix to counter hydras"


Because I'm right, you can.

Anyone who thinks hydras actually counter phoenix is completely wrong.


Oh boy.
You can pick up hydras in very small numbers, but as soon as the zerg commits to larger numbers of hydras, phoenixes die faster than you can pick up any hydras.
So yes, Hydras counter phoenix.


It all depends on numbers. If the Zerg has more than twice as many hydras as there are phoenixes, of course you're going to witness a massacre. But if the numbers are comparable, and the Protoss has pretty good micro, he will most likely win the fight. Sure, with fairly heavy losses, but he wins it. Phoenixes are both more durable, more mobile and have higher dps compared to hydras.


Yeah, but here it was in the context of "I'm going for mass vr, maybe get some phenix to counter hydras"
Anyway I think phenix openings are the strongest openings a protoss can do, but seeing them as a "support unit to counter hydra" sounds wierd.


omg your signature. Juanald was such a heroic troll, i was a massive fan of his as well.

Haha glad his legacy is not dead. Juanald shall be remembered forever.
StarVe
Profile Joined June 2011
Germany13591 Posts
April 23 2013 15:29 GMT
#76
On April 24 2013 00:20 kubiks wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2013 00:00 AxionSteel wrote:
On April 23 2013 23:58 kubiks wrote:
On April 23 2013 23:49 MasterOfPuppets wrote:
On April 23 2013 23:43 Roqshu wrote:
On April 23 2013 23:34 TotalBiscuit wrote:
On April 23 2013 23:30 kubiks wrote:
Ahah TB is funny to listen : "you can add phenix to counter hydras"


Because I'm right, you can.

Anyone who thinks hydras actually counter phoenix is completely wrong.


Oh boy.
You can pick up hydras in very small numbers, but as soon as the zerg commits to larger numbers of hydras, phoenixes die faster than you can pick up any hydras.
So yes, Hydras counter phoenix.


It all depends on numbers. If the Zerg has more than twice as many hydras as there are phoenixes, of course you're going to witness a massacre. But if the numbers are comparable, and the Protoss has pretty good micro, he will most likely win the fight. Sure, with fairly heavy losses, but he wins it. Phoenixes are both more durable, more mobile and have higher dps compared to hydras.


Yeah, but here it was in the context of "I'm going for mass vr, maybe get some phenix to counter hydras"
Anyway I think phenix openings are the strongest openings a protoss can do, but seeing them as a "support unit to counter hydra" sounds wierd.


omg your signature. Juanald was such a heroic troll, i was a massive fan of his as well.


It's the first time someone calls me on that, I thought nobody noticed . I miss him so much, but he got nuked for GLORY.

Dude he absolutely was my favourite troll, too! So sad when he got banned for "shitposting", only guy who constantly made me chuckle.

He now spreads his wisdom on Reddit from time to time.

http://www.reddit.com/user/Juanald

I'll always treasure genius posts like this one. The reply gets me every time. :D
kubiks
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
France1328 Posts
April 23 2013 15:34 GMT
#77
On April 24 2013 00:29 StarVe wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2013 00:20 kubiks wrote:
On April 24 2013 00:00 AxionSteel wrote:
On April 23 2013 23:58 kubiks wrote:
On April 23 2013 23:49 MasterOfPuppets wrote:
On April 23 2013 23:43 Roqshu wrote:
On April 23 2013 23:34 TotalBiscuit wrote:
On April 23 2013 23:30 kubiks wrote:
Ahah TB is funny to listen : "you can add phenix to counter hydras"


Because I'm right, you can.

Anyone who thinks hydras actually counter phoenix is completely wrong.


Oh boy.
You can pick up hydras in very small numbers, but as soon as the zerg commits to larger numbers of hydras, phoenixes die faster than you can pick up any hydras.
So yes, Hydras counter phoenix.


It all depends on numbers. If the Zerg has more than twice as many hydras as there are phoenixes, of course you're going to witness a massacre. But if the numbers are comparable, and the Protoss has pretty good micro, he will most likely win the fight. Sure, with fairly heavy losses, but he wins it. Phoenixes are both more durable, more mobile and have higher dps compared to hydras.


Yeah, but here it was in the context of "I'm going for mass vr, maybe get some phenix to counter hydras"
Anyway I think phenix openings are the strongest openings a protoss can do, but seeing them as a "support unit to counter hydra" sounds wierd.


omg your signature. Juanald was such a heroic troll, i was a massive fan of his as well.


It's the first time someone calls me on that, I thought nobody noticed . I miss him so much, but he got nuked for GLORY.

Dude he absolutely was my favourite troll, too! So sad when he got banned for "shitposting", only guy who constantly made me chuckle.

He now spreads his wisdom on Reddit from time to time.

http://www.reddit.com/user/Juanald

I'll always treasure genius posts like this one. The reply gets me every time. :D


Thanks for this treasure. I will cherich it with all my heart.
Juanald you're my hero I miss you -> best troll ever on TL <3
Dodgin
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada39254 Posts
April 23 2013 15:36 GMT
#78
you think blizzard will force ATC to stop broadcasting when wcs eu starts?
MasterOfPuppets
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Romania6942 Posts
April 23 2013 15:37 GMT
#79
On April 24 2013 00:36 Dodgin wrote:
you think blizzard will force ATC to stop broadcasting when wcs eu starts?


Nah, only MLG would think of something like that.
"my shaft scares me too" - strenx 2014
StarVe
Profile Joined June 2011
Germany13591 Posts
April 23 2013 15:37 GMT
#80
On April 24 2013 00:36 Dodgin wrote:
you think blizzard will force ATC to stop broadcasting when wcs eu starts?

no, obviously not
MasterOfPuppets
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Romania6942 Posts
April 23 2013 15:38 GMT
#81
Plus, knowing Heart's play-style, this may well be over in under 20 mins. ^^
"my shaft scares me too" - strenx 2014
Shellshock
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States97276 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-23 15:39:14
April 23 2013 15:38 GMT
#82
On April 24 2013 00:36 Dodgin wrote:
you think blizzard will force ATC to stop broadcasting when wcs eu starts?

Does Blizzard know WCS EU starts today?
On April 24 2013 00:38 MasterOfPuppets wrote:
Plus, knowing Heart's play-style, this may well be over in under 20 mins. ^^

Heart probably plays macro most often in TvZ though.
Moderatorhttp://i.imgur.com/U4xwqmD.png
TL+ Member
MasterOfPuppets
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Romania6942 Posts
April 23 2013 15:39 GMT
#83
On April 24 2013 00:38 Shellshock1122 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2013 00:36 Dodgin wrote:
you think blizzard will force ATC to stop broadcasting when wcs eu starts?

Does Blizzard know WCS EU starts today?
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2013 00:38 MasterOfPuppets wrote:
Plus, knowing Heart's play-style, this may well be over in under 20 mins. ^^

Heart probably plays macro most often in TvZ though.


How can you be so sure YuGiOh will be the final player?
"my shaft scares me too" - strenx 2014
Dodgin
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada39254 Posts
April 23 2013 15:40 GMT
#84
On April 24 2013 00:37 StarVe wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2013 00:36 Dodgin wrote:
you think blizzard will force ATC to stop broadcasting when wcs eu starts?

no, obviously not


how is it obvious? they said no one else can broadcast during WCS
Shellshock
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States97276 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-23 15:40:29
April 23 2013 15:40 GMT
#85
On April 24 2013 00:39 MasterOfPuppets wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2013 00:38 Shellshock1122 wrote:
On April 24 2013 00:36 Dodgin wrote:
you think blizzard will force ATC to stop broadcasting when wcs eu starts?

Does Blizzard know WCS EU starts today?
On April 24 2013 00:38 MasterOfPuppets wrote:
Plus, knowing Heart's play-style, this may well be over in under 20 mins. ^^

Heart probably plays macro most often in TvZ though.


How can you be so sure YuGiOh will be the final player?

cause it's the perfect trap card; like those widow mines
Moderatorhttp://i.imgur.com/U4xwqmD.png
TL+ Member
MasterOfPuppets
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Romania6942 Posts
April 23 2013 15:41 GMT
#86
On April 24 2013 00:40 Dodgin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2013 00:37 StarVe wrote:
On April 24 2013 00:36 Dodgin wrote:
you think blizzard will force ATC to stop broadcasting when wcs eu starts?

no, obviously not


how is it obvious? they said no one else can broadcast during WCS


Unlike MLG, Blizzard actually fear community backlash to a certain extent.
"my shaft scares me too" - strenx 2014
TotalBiscuit
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United Kingdom5437 Posts
April 23 2013 15:43 GMT
#87
On April 24 2013 00:40 Dodgin wrote:
how is it obvious? they said no one else can broadcast during WCS


No, they will not. ATC has a license before WCS even existed, they cannot enforce that rule.

And if they do... well, prepare for a shitstorm.
CommentatorHost of SHOUTcraft Clan Wars- http://www.mlg.tv/shoutcraft
Dodgin
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada39254 Posts
April 23 2013 15:43 GMT
#88
On April 24 2013 00:43 TotalBiscuit wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2013 00:40 Dodgin wrote:
how is it obvious? they said no one else can broadcast during WCS


No, they will not. ATC has a license before WCS even existed, they cannot enforce that rule.

And if they do... well, prepare for a shitstorm.


that's good
MasterOfPuppets
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Romania6942 Posts
April 23 2013 15:44 GMT
#89
What the fuck... Heart had it. Then he loses to broodfestor. ;_;
"my shaft scares me too" - strenx 2014
vult
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United States9400 Posts
April 23 2013 15:46 GMT
#90
On April 24 2013 00:44 MasterOfPuppets wrote:
What the fuck... Heart had it. Then he loses to broodfestor. ;_;


Heart was no where close. Low tech, 3 bases vs 4 bases, and his drops didnt do nearly enough.
He relied on WM's which backfired on him when YugiOh got Broods.
I used to play random, but for you I play very specifically.
StarVe
Profile Joined June 2011
Germany13591 Posts
April 23 2013 15:46 GMT
#91
On April 24 2013 00:40 Dodgin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2013 00:37 StarVe wrote:
On April 24 2013 00:36 Dodgin wrote:
you think blizzard will force ATC to stop broadcasting when wcs eu starts?

no, obviously not


how is it obvious? they said no one else can broadcast during WCS

It's incredibly obvious because the last thing Blizz needs right now is a shitstorm bigger than what happened in the last two weeks combined right on the first day of their new league.
Topdoller
Profile Joined March 2011
United Kingdom3860 Posts
April 23 2013 15:46 GMT
#92
YuGiOh has some interesting strats, i like his play this could go to the wire now
Dodgin
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada39254 Posts
April 23 2013 15:50 GMT
#93
On April 24 2013 00:46 StarVe wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2013 00:40 Dodgin wrote:
On April 24 2013 00:37 StarVe wrote:
On April 24 2013 00:36 Dodgin wrote:
you think blizzard will force ATC to stop broadcasting when wcs eu starts?

no, obviously not


how is it obvious? they said no one else can broadcast during WCS

It's incredibly obvious because the last thing Blizz needs right now is a shitstorm bigger than what happened in the last two weeks combined right on the first day of their new league.


I get what you're saying but It's not like this is the only time ever where ATC will overlap with WCS, and they specifically said they didn't want anyone else airing tournaments during WCS. I guess we'll see if blizzard cares enough that its taking some of their viewers away.
KristofferAG
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Norway25712 Posts
April 23 2013 15:56 GMT
#94
Getting in a bit late here. Did I miss anything good?
@KristofferAG | http://vestkyststoy.bandcamp.com | last.fm/user/KristofferAG
Tayar
Profile Joined November 2011
United States1439 Posts
April 23 2013 15:57 GMT
#95
yugioh randomly smashing people today
nunez
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Norway4003 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-23 16:00:02
April 23 2013 15:58 GMT
#96
yugioh playing really solid.

edit: i think yugioh overstayed his welcome at ryungs third and he's getting punished for it now. with fungals and those extra 8-10 units he could have reset the medevac count.
conspired against by a confederacy of dunces.
DJHelium
Profile Joined December 2010
Sweden13480 Posts
April 23 2013 16:03 GMT
#97
On April 24 2013 00:58 nunez wrote:
yugioh playing really solid.

edit: i think yugioh overstayed his welcome at ryungs third and he's getting punished for it now. with fungals and those extra 8-10 units he could have reset the medevac count.


I agree, either he has to keep making units and kill third or transition into infestation pit and take a 4th. Doing both is very greedy.

Interesting that even Ryung prefers widow mines to tanks vs roach/hydra, seems to be the way to go!
#1 player in the world atm: J-god | Follow me on twitter! @DJHelium
MasterOfPuppets
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Romania6942 Posts
April 23 2013 16:05 GMT
#98
Ryung picking him apart slowly and steadily. :x
"my shaft scares me too" - strenx 2014
Deleted User 137586
Profile Joined January 2011
7859 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-23 16:07:50
April 23 2013 16:06 GMT
#99
TB's frustration with the control of his own players compared to Yugioh is starting to show ^^

But I'm glad Ryung got to demonstrate that he's a beast!

Edit: Wait, this tournament format allows eliminated players to come back?
Cry 'havoc' and let slip the dogs of war
Dodgin
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada39254 Posts
April 23 2013 16:07 GMT
#100
Really nice game by Ryung
Yunarc
Profile Joined March 2011
United States314 Posts
April 23 2013 16:08 GMT
#101
Yugioh needed a transition there from roach/hydra, Ryung was able to just pick him apart with drops
MasterOfPuppets
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Romania6942 Posts
April 23 2013 16:09 GMT
#102
On April 24 2013 01:06 Ghanburighan wrote:
TB's frustration with the control of his own players compared to Yugioh is starting to show ^^

But I'm glad Ryung got to demonstrate that he's a beast!

Edit: Wait, this tournament format allows eliminated players to come back?


Ryung is very much a beast when it comes to TvT and TvZ, sadly his results don't always reflect the quality of his in-game play. :/

And yes, players are allowed to be revived, although these resurrections if you will are not unlimited.
"my shaft scares me too" - strenx 2014
broodmann
Profile Joined December 2011
604 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-23 16:10:05
April 23 2013 16:09 GMT
#103
On April 24 2013 01:06 Ghanburighan wrote:
TB's frustration with the control of his own players compared to Yugioh is starting to show ^^

But I'm glad Ryung got to demonstrate that he's a beast!


It's pretty funny tbh, but even as a normal viewer, Ryung's sudden lack of controll was kind of wierd, its not something you see top players like innovation/Flash/Gumiho do
Shellshock
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States97276 Posts
April 23 2013 16:09 GMT
#104
On April 24 2013 01:06 Ghanburighan wrote:
TB's frustration with the control of his own players compared to Yugioh is starting to show ^^

But I'm glad Ryung got to demonstrate that he's a beast!

Edit: Wait, this tournament format allows eliminated players to come back?

the ace can be anyone on the team even if they have already played. you also have 2 revives on each player per season for regular matches I believe
Moderatorhttp://i.imgur.com/U4xwqmD.png
TL+ Member
MasterOfPuppets
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Romania6942 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-23 16:11:18
April 23 2013 16:11 GMT
#105
On April 24 2013 01:09 Shellshock1122 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2013 01:06 Ghanburighan wrote:
TB's frustration with the control of his own players compared to Yugioh is starting to show ^^

But I'm glad Ryung got to demonstrate that he's a beast!

Edit: Wait, this tournament format allows eliminated players to come back?

the ace can be anyone on the team even if they have already played. you also have 2 revives on each player per season for regular matches I believe


Ah ok. This better explains situations like HyuN playing 3 times against Karont3. Thanks.
"my shaft scares me too" - strenx 2014
Deleted User 137586
Profile Joined January 2011
7859 Posts
April 23 2013 16:11 GMT
#106
Ok, thanks guys for explaining player revival and ace matches.
Cry 'havoc' and let slip the dogs of war
Yunarc
Profile Joined March 2011
United States314 Posts
April 23 2013 16:11 GMT
#107
why does WCS Europe need to start now, I want to watch both
betaman
Profile Joined September 2011
United Kingdom355 Posts
April 23 2013 16:13 GMT
#108
On April 24 2013 01:06 Ghanburighan wrote:
TB's frustration with the control of his own players compared to Yugioh is starting to show ^^

But I'm glad Ryung got to demonstrate that he's a beast!

Edit: Wait, this tournament format allows eliminated players to come back?


From liquipedia:

"Ace can be any player, even those who have played and lost before; this is independent of "revive" rule

Twice a season, a player may be "revived" and play again despite losing an earlier game; can revive only once per match."

So players can lose twice and play a third time if you use the revive then they play the ace match. I think Hyun did that for quantic in one of the matches.
Shellshock
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States97276 Posts
April 23 2013 16:14 GMT
#109
On April 24 2013 01:13 betaman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2013 01:06 Ghanburighan wrote:
TB's frustration with the control of his own players compared to Yugioh is starting to show ^^

But I'm glad Ryung got to demonstrate that he's a beast!

Edit: Wait, this tournament format allows eliminated players to come back?


From liquipedia:

"Ace can be any player, even those who have played and lost before; this is independent of "revive" rule

Twice a season, a player may be "revived" and play again despite losing an earlier game; can revive only once per match."

So players can lose twice and play a third time if you use the revive then they play the ace match. I think Hyun did that for quantic in one of the matches.

Yugioh also played 3 games in a row against TaeJa because apparently no one else on ROOT wanted to haha
Moderatorhttp://i.imgur.com/U4xwqmD.png
TL+ Member
Yunarc
Profile Joined March 2011
United States314 Posts
April 23 2013 16:24 GMT
#110
wow I thought Ryung was dead
Deleted User 137586
Profile Joined January 2011
7859 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-23 16:26:40
April 23 2013 16:25 GMT
#111
Yeay, very similar games for Ryung, well played.

Edit: Shows TB's quality if he casts that well on 3h of sleep.
Cry 'havoc' and let slip the dogs of war
MasterOfPuppets
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Romania6942 Posts
April 23 2013 16:25 GMT
#112
On April 24 2013 01:24 Yunarc wrote:
wow I thought Ryung was dead


Same here... man he's playing so well. :x

GGs. Nice performance.
"my shaft scares me too" - strenx 2014
Megiddosc
Profile Joined April 2011
United States966 Posts
April 23 2013 16:25 GMT
#113
Terran continues to be Achilles Heel for ROOT. Great games today and well played Axiom. Glad to see some of my favorite ex-SlayerS players tearing it up, especially Alicia coming back.
Shellshock
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States97276 Posts
April 23 2013 16:26 GMT
#114
grats Axiom
Moderatorhttp://i.imgur.com/U4xwqmD.png
TL+ Member
kubiks
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
France1328 Posts
April 23 2013 16:27 GMT
#115
On April 24 2013 01:25 Megiddosc wrote:
Terran continues to be Achilles Heel for ROOT. Great games today and well played Axiom. Glad to see some of my favorite ex-SlayerS players tearing it up, especially Alicia coming back.


Actually it's an all-kill by slayers
Juanald you're my hero I miss you -> best troll ever on TL <3
GunPaladin
Profile Joined September 2011
United States1205 Posts
April 23 2013 16:27 GMT
#116
good work Axiom
The doctors gave me 9 months to live, ]BIG[ gave me a life time.
MasterOfPuppets
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Romania6942 Posts
April 23 2013 16:27 GMT
#117
On April 24 2013 01:27 kubiks wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2013 01:25 Megiddosc wrote:
Terran continues to be Achilles Heel for ROOT. Great games today and well played Axiom. Glad to see some of my favorite ex-SlayerS players tearing it up, especially Alicia coming back.


Actually it's an all-kill by slayers


If it takes more than one player to perform, it's no longer an all-kill lol...
"my shaft scares me too" - strenx 2014
TotalBiscuit
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United Kingdom5437 Posts
April 24 2013 04:59 GMT
#118
On April 24 2013 01:25 Ghanburighan wrote:
Yeay, very similar games for Ryung, well played.

Edit: Shows TB's quality if he casts that well on 3h of sleep.


I cast like shit today honestly, tripping over myself all the time, misread a few things. It was a stark contrast to my Karont3 vs Mousesports cast where I felt I was really on the ball.
CommentatorHost of SHOUTcraft Clan Wars- http://www.mlg.tv/shoutcraft
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