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On February 01 2013 23:34 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 23:30 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:26 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:18 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:08 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:02 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 21:04 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 21:01 NightOfTheDead wrote:On February 01 2013 20:55 Zeon0 wrote:
TL need another player in Korea so EGTL has more options. Maybe send Snute over there? Stephano Taeja Jaedong JYP Hero - Huk, Zenio, Thorzain, Puma And they need more players to send out? More options? Really? Not many teams can boast such a lineup actually, and most of these players were playing from beta. Has something to do with Kespa training and preparation. Why does every thread have to go there T_T If it was an individual league, the EGTL players would probably score better results than 90% of the kespa players. But it's not, this is a team league. Different format, different preparation. Different skills required. I kind of agree with you but that's not something only kespa teams are capable of Right, that's why EG did so well in winner's league. What a crock of doodoo. The team is just bad. There's no hidden reason for it. There's no need to make excuses. In other news, KHAN wins again  Lol. You could argue that the "lower half" of EGTL isn't top tier. Then again, Zenio made Code A while tons of hyped kespa players didn't. HerO has 3 tournament wins under his belt + GSL Ro4 & Ro8 last year and a great performance at IPL5 that kinda fell under the radar because zerg suffocated the whole tournament. Taeja has won multiple tournaments and all killed multiple things and is currently performing well in GSL even though his wrists are in bad shape. Stephano has mulitple tournament wins and is always performing well. I wasn't arguing that EGTL was a good team. At least read the post correctly. I said INDIVIDUAL LEAGUE = GSL, MLG, etc. HerO, Taeja, Stephano would place higher at individual tournaments than 90% of the kespa players. That doesn't mean they'll perform well in PL. You could argue that the team is bad, whatever. What I'm saying is that EGTL has better individual players than most other teams but that it doesn't necessarily benefit them in a teamleague format like this, especially with Bo1s. Same reason why IM wasn't winning everything. You're only as good as your last game. Listing a bunch of old achievements is meaningless. Especially when last year the kespa players were playing BW. Most of the kespa players didn't even understand how the game worked when they got knocked out of GSL. It's only in the past month that JangBi said he learned what protoss is supposed to do in late game. Your examples don't make any sense in that context. EGTL's players aren't good. That's why they lose. Simple as that. Results are what matter and when EGTL plays their results end in LOSSES. EGTL doesn't have better individual players. It's not like PL has 3v3 matches. If their players were better, they would win! That's a dumb argument. Simply dumb. Being better doesn't mean you're gonna win in a Bo1. Like, if you gave me one game vs Jangbi and I got a lucky build order win, am I better than him? No? Well, according to your logic I would be because I won the game. As it is, Stephano, HerO and Taeja would wipe the floor with 90% of Kespa players in say a Bo5. The more games you play, the closer you get to seeing who's better. The fewer games you play, the more random it becomes. That's maths. Statistics. Again, when Mvp and Nestea won every tournament in the world but IM bombed out of teamleagues, were the IM players bad? It's a fucking dumb argument. LOL yeah man! Good players lose! But they're still better! Everyone else is just too dumb to understand! An entire season of fail is just a build order loss!! Roro and Jangbi would wipe the floor with 95% of Kespa players in say a Bo100. That's maths! Depth doesn't matter in a team. Just one or two players who win every tournament! It's fucking brilliant! I'm not even sure wtf you're arguing anymore. Do you even read what I'm saying? Yes, better players will lose Bo1s. They are, however, more likely to win a series the more are being played. I suggest you take a dice and roll it one time. Then come back and say "LOL every number except 5 is bad because 5 won!". It's definitely possible that 5 has a higher chance than other numbers but you can't tell from just one try. Because that's what you're saying. Other than that you're just spouting random sarcastic nonsense without making any real arguments except that "better players don't lose!!11!" which is simply dumb and wrong. So if that's all you have to say then... well Of course depth matters in a teamleague but I never said otherwise, WTF. I never said EGTL was the better team. I'm saying that they have the better top individual players but that it doesn't benefit them as much in a teamleague. WTFWTFWTF
I suggest you take a dice. And roll it for five weeks. And when it never comes up EGTL, come back and tell me how great they are LOL. A whole team of better players don't lose for an entire season of WINNER's League, which is simply a smart and right observation. MVP and Nestea don't make a team. DEPTH does. WTF!
My entire problem with the EGTL fans who keep crying about how much better their players are is that quite simply you are NOT a better player when you consistently lose. It's like it doesn't matter what results ever come out, they're convinced of their team's innate superiority. It's one thing to be a rabid fan and root for them all the time. That's fine. But to always hear them whining about how their team's just THAT much better than all the rest, when they're really at the BOTTOM of the standings. It's just ridiculous. And so is your argument for why we should all be convinced EGTL is amazing but is just horrible at the PL format.
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Austria24417 Posts
On February 01 2013 23:40 rj rl wrote:
You win the thread, TLEG best team
I'll give you cookies if you can quote me actually saying that.
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And EGTL loses yet again
No surprise there, I said from the beginning that they were going to be one of the weakest teams.
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Austria24417 Posts
On February 01 2013 23:43 SamsungStar wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 23:34 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:30 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:26 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:18 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:08 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:02 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 21:04 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 21:01 NightOfTheDead wrote:On February 01 2013 20:55 Zeon0 wrote:
TL need another player in Korea so EGTL has more options. Maybe send Snute over there? Stephano Taeja Jaedong JYP Hero - Huk, Zenio, Thorzain, Puma And they need more players to send out? More options? Really? Not many teams can boast such a lineup actually, and most of these players were playing from beta. Has something to do with Kespa training and preparation. Why does every thread have to go there T_T If it was an individual league, the EGTL players would probably score better results than 90% of the kespa players. But it's not, this is a team league. Different format, different preparation. Different skills required. I kind of agree with you but that's not something only kespa teams are capable of Right, that's why EG did so well in winner's league. What a crock of doodoo. The team is just bad. There's no hidden reason for it. There's no need to make excuses. In other news, KHAN wins again Lol. You could argue that the "lower half" of EGTL isn't top tier. Then again, Zenio made Code A while tons of hyped kespa players didn't. HerO has 3 tournament wins under his belt + GSL Ro4 & Ro8 last year and a great performance at IPL5 that kinda fell under the radar because zerg suffocated the whole tournament. Taeja has won multiple tournaments and all killed multiple things and is currently performing well in GSL even though his wrists are in bad shape. Stephano has mulitple tournament wins and is always performing well. I wasn't arguing that EGTL was a good team. At least read the post correctly. I said INDIVIDUAL LEAGUE = GSL, MLG, etc. HerO, Taeja, Stephano would place higher at individual tournaments than 90% of the kespa players. That doesn't mean they'll perform well in PL. You could argue that the team is bad, whatever. What I'm saying is that EGTL has better individual players than most other teams but that it doesn't necessarily benefit them in a teamleague format like this, especially with Bo1s. Same reason why IM wasn't winning everything. You're only as good as your last game. Listing a bunch of old achievements is meaningless. Especially when last year the kespa players were playing BW. Most of the kespa players didn't even understand how the game worked when they got knocked out of GSL. It's only in the past month that JangBi said he learned what protoss is supposed to do in late game. Your examples don't make any sense in that context. EGTL's players aren't good. That's why they lose. Simple as that. Results are what matter and when EGTL plays their results end in LOSSES. EGTL doesn't have better individual players. It's not like PL has 3v3 matches. If their players were better, they would win! That's a dumb argument. Simply dumb. Being better doesn't mean you're gonna win in a Bo1. Like, if you gave me one game vs Jangbi and I got a lucky build order win, am I better than him? No? Well, according to your logic I would be because I won the game. As it is, Stephano, HerO and Taeja would wipe the floor with 90% of Kespa players in say a Bo5. The more games you play, the closer you get to seeing who's better. The fewer games you play, the more random it becomes. That's maths. Statistics. Again, when Mvp and Nestea won every tournament in the world but IM bombed out of teamleagues, were the IM players bad? It's a fucking dumb argument. LOL yeah man! Good players lose! But they're still better! Everyone else is just too dumb to understand! An entire season of fail is just a build order loss!! Roro and Jangbi would wipe the floor with 95% of Kespa players in say a Bo100. That's maths! Depth doesn't matter in a team. Just one or two players who win every tournament! It's fucking brilliant! I'm not even sure wtf you're arguing anymore. Do you even read what I'm saying? Yes, better players will lose Bo1s. They are, however, more likely to win a series the more are being played. I suggest you take a dice and roll it one time. Then come back and say "LOL every number except 5 is bad because 5 won!". It's definitely possible that 5 has a higher chance than other numbers but you can't tell from just one try. Because that's what you're saying. Other than that you're just spouting random sarcastic nonsense without making any real arguments except that "better players don't lose!!11!" which is simply dumb and wrong. So if that's all you have to say then... well Of course depth matters in a teamleague but I never said otherwise, WTF. I never said EGTL was the better team. I'm saying that they have the better top individual players but that it doesn't benefit them as much in a teamleague. WTFWTFWTF I suggest you take a dice. And roll it for five weeks. And when it never comes up EGTL, come back and tell me how great they are LOL. A whole team of better players don't lose for an entire season of WINNER's League, which is simply a smart and right observation. MVP and Nestea don't make a team. DEPTH does. WTF!
I didn't... say... EGTL was a good team...
Stop arguing against something I'm not even saying. IM had the best individual players in the world but was bad in teamleagues. EGTL has great individual players but is bad in this teamleague. Why are you even arguing about depth, I never said anything about depth. That was never even the point. Nothing you ever argued about was even the point
And I never said the great individual players of EGTL make them a good team. I'm saying the EXACT OPPOSITE, WTF. I literally said "having great individual players doesn't benefit them in a teamleague".
A team that wants to do well in PL needs more than great individual players. That's what I've been saying the whole time, lol.
That's why I agreed with the first post I replied to, the one you're defending now. WHY are you defending a point against someone who agrees with it. WTTTTTTTFFFFFFF
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On February 01 2013 23:47 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 23:43 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:34 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:30 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:26 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:18 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:08 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:02 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 21:04 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 21:01 NightOfTheDead wrote:
[quote]
Stephano
Taeja
Jaedong
JYP
Hero
-
Huk, Zenio, Thorzain, Puma
And they need more players to send out? More options? Really? Not many teams can boast such a lineup actually, and most of these players were playing from beta. Has something to do with Kespa training and preparation. Why does every thread have to go there T_T If it was an individual league, the EGTL players would probably score better results than 90% of the kespa players. But it's not, this is a team league. Different format, different preparation. Different skills required. I kind of agree with you but that's not something only kespa teams are capable of Right, that's why EG did so well in winner's league. What a crock of doodoo. The team is just bad. There's no hidden reason for it. There's no need to make excuses. In other news, KHAN wins again Lol. You could argue that the "lower half" of EGTL isn't top tier. Then again, Zenio made Code A while tons of hyped kespa players didn't. HerO has 3 tournament wins under his belt + GSL Ro4 & Ro8 last year and a great performance at IPL5 that kinda fell under the radar because zerg suffocated the whole tournament. Taeja has won multiple tournaments and all killed multiple things and is currently performing well in GSL even though his wrists are in bad shape. Stephano has mulitple tournament wins and is always performing well. I wasn't arguing that EGTL was a good team. At least read the post correctly. I said INDIVIDUAL LEAGUE = GSL, MLG, etc. HerO, Taeja, Stephano would place higher at individual tournaments than 90% of the kespa players. That doesn't mean they'll perform well in PL. You could argue that the team is bad, whatever. What I'm saying is that EGTL has better individual players than most other teams but that it doesn't necessarily benefit them in a teamleague format like this, especially with Bo1s. Same reason why IM wasn't winning everything. You're only as good as your last game. Listing a bunch of old achievements is meaningless. Especially when last year the kespa players were playing BW. Most of the kespa players didn't even understand how the game worked when they got knocked out of GSL. It's only in the past month that JangBi said he learned what protoss is supposed to do in late game. Your examples don't make any sense in that context. EGTL's players aren't good. That's why they lose. Simple as that. Results are what matter and when EGTL plays their results end in LOSSES. EGTL doesn't have better individual players. It's not like PL has 3v3 matches. If their players were better, they would win! That's a dumb argument. Simply dumb. Being better doesn't mean you're gonna win in a Bo1. Like, if you gave me one game vs Jangbi and I got a lucky build order win, am I better than him? No? Well, according to your logic I would be because I won the game. As it is, Stephano, HerO and Taeja would wipe the floor with 90% of Kespa players in say a Bo5. The more games you play, the closer you get to seeing who's better. The fewer games you play, the more random it becomes. That's maths. Statistics. Again, when Mvp and Nestea won every tournament in the world but IM bombed out of teamleagues, were the IM players bad? It's a fucking dumb argument. LOL yeah man! Good players lose! But they're still better! Everyone else is just too dumb to understand! An entire season of fail is just a build order loss!! Roro and Jangbi would wipe the floor with 95% of Kespa players in say a Bo100. That's maths! Depth doesn't matter in a team. Just one or two players who win every tournament! It's fucking brilliant! I'm not even sure wtf you're arguing anymore. Do you even read what I'm saying? Yes, better players will lose Bo1s. They are, however, more likely to win a series the more are being played. I suggest you take a dice and roll it one time. Then come back and say "LOL every number except 5 is bad because 5 won!". It's definitely possible that 5 has a higher chance than other numbers but you can't tell from just one try. Because that's what you're saying. Other than that you're just spouting random sarcastic nonsense without making any real arguments except that "better players don't lose!!11!" which is simply dumb and wrong. So if that's all you have to say then... well Of course depth matters in a teamleague but I never said otherwise, WTF. I never said EGTL was the better team. I'm saying that they have the better top individual players but that it doesn't benefit them as much in a teamleague. WTFWTFWTF I suggest you take a dice. And roll it for five weeks. And when it never comes up EGTL, come back and tell me how great they are LOL. A whole team of better players don't lose for an entire season of WINNER's League, which is simply a smart and right observation. MVP and Nestea don't make a team. DEPTH does. WTF! I didn't... say... EGTL was a good team... Stop arguing against something I'm not even saying. IM had the best individual players in the world but was bad in teamleagues. EGTL has great individual players but is bad in this teamleague. Why are you even arguing about depth, I never said anything about depth. That was never even the point. Nothing you ever argued about was even the point
No, you don't get it. There's no difference between "individual" and "team" players in SC2. I have no clue wtf you're on. It's a 1v1 game. Good players win their 1v1s consistently. Mediocre players don't. You can't argue a team has amazing players when that team's players keep losing. So, when you claim EGTL has amazing "individual" players, in essence you're claiming the team is amazing. When it's very much not.
My point is you have none. You've tried to create some kind of artificial division between PL and individual leagues, except that's never how its worked. In BW, the players winning the most in PL were nearly always the same ones winning the individual leagues. You know why? Because that's what winners do. There were a few exceptions, like Sea, but that's why Sea is a well-recognized name, because of his unusually lopsided performance. The others were called snipers because they were only good at one particular matchup or map. It's why snipers are not given the same level of respect as the bonjwas and league winners.
Until PL has 2v2 and 3v3 matches, you have no case. If EGTL had individually great players they would be winning. They're not and they don't. At least not right now. Do their players have the potential to be great? Yes. But you can't claim they're amazing when they continue to lose.
Edit: Especially nonsense statements like EGTL's players would wipe the floor with 90% of Kespa. I assume you mean the A-teamers that are actually playing in PL when you say kespa, at which point I have to say you're insane. If they were that much better, they wouldn't be losing. It's exactly those kinds of statements I find ridiculous.
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Austria24417 Posts
On February 01 2013 23:53 SamsungStar wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 23:47 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:43 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:34 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:30 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:26 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:18 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:08 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:02 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 21:04 DarkLordOlli wrote:
[quote]
Why does every thread have to go there T_T
If it was an individual league, the EGTL players would probably score better results than 90% of the kespa players. But it's not, this is a team league. Different format, different preparation. Different skills required. I kind of agree with you but that's not something only kespa teams are capable of Right, that's why EG did so well in winner's league. What a crock of doodoo. The team is just bad. There's no hidden reason for it. There's no need to make excuses. In other news, KHAN wins again Lol. You could argue that the "lower half" of EGTL isn't top tier. Then again, Zenio made Code A while tons of hyped kespa players didn't. HerO has 3 tournament wins under his belt + GSL Ro4 & Ro8 last year and a great performance at IPL5 that kinda fell under the radar because zerg suffocated the whole tournament. Taeja has won multiple tournaments and all killed multiple things and is currently performing well in GSL even though his wrists are in bad shape. Stephano has mulitple tournament wins and is always performing well. I wasn't arguing that EGTL was a good team. At least read the post correctly. I said INDIVIDUAL LEAGUE = GSL, MLG, etc. HerO, Taeja, Stephano would place higher at individual tournaments than 90% of the kespa players. That doesn't mean they'll perform well in PL. You could argue that the team is bad, whatever. What I'm saying is that EGTL has better individual players than most other teams but that it doesn't necessarily benefit them in a teamleague format like this, especially with Bo1s. Same reason why IM wasn't winning everything. You're only as good as your last game. Listing a bunch of old achievements is meaningless. Especially when last year the kespa players were playing BW. Most of the kespa players didn't even understand how the game worked when they got knocked out of GSL. It's only in the past month that JangBi said he learned what protoss is supposed to do in late game. Your examples don't make any sense in that context. EGTL's players aren't good. That's why they lose. Simple as that. Results are what matter and when EGTL plays their results end in LOSSES. EGTL doesn't have better individual players. It's not like PL has 3v3 matches. If their players were better, they would win! That's a dumb argument. Simply dumb. Being better doesn't mean you're gonna win in a Bo1. Like, if you gave me one game vs Jangbi and I got a lucky build order win, am I better than him? No? Well, according to your logic I would be because I won the game. As it is, Stephano, HerO and Taeja would wipe the floor with 90% of Kespa players in say a Bo5. The more games you play, the closer you get to seeing who's better. The fewer games you play, the more random it becomes. That's maths. Statistics. Again, when Mvp and Nestea won every tournament in the world but IM bombed out of teamleagues, were the IM players bad? It's a fucking dumb argument. LOL yeah man! Good players lose! But they're still better! Everyone else is just too dumb to understand! An entire season of fail is just a build order loss!! Roro and Jangbi would wipe the floor with 95% of Kespa players in say a Bo100. That's maths! Depth doesn't matter in a team. Just one or two players who win every tournament! It's fucking brilliant! I'm not even sure wtf you're arguing anymore. Do you even read what I'm saying? Yes, better players will lose Bo1s. They are, however, more likely to win a series the more are being played. I suggest you take a dice and roll it one time. Then come back and say "LOL every number except 5 is bad because 5 won!". It's definitely possible that 5 has a higher chance than other numbers but you can't tell from just one try. Because that's what you're saying. Other than that you're just spouting random sarcastic nonsense without making any real arguments except that "better players don't lose!!11!" which is simply dumb and wrong. So if that's all you have to say then... well Of course depth matters in a teamleague but I never said otherwise, WTF. I never said EGTL was the better team. I'm saying that they have the better top individual players but that it doesn't benefit them as much in a teamleague. WTFWTFWTF I suggest you take a dice. And roll it for five weeks. And when it never comes up EGTL, come back and tell me how great they are LOL. A whole team of better players don't lose for an entire season of WINNER's League, which is simply a smart and right observation. MVP and Nestea don't make a team. DEPTH does. WTF! I didn't... say... EGTL was a good team... Stop arguing against something I'm not even saying. IM had the best individual players in the world but was bad in teamleagues. EGTL has great individual players but is bad in this teamleague. Why are you even arguing about depth, I never said anything about depth. That was never even the point. Nothing you ever argued about was even the point No, you don't get it. There's no difference between "individual" and "team" players in SC2. I have no clue wtf you're on. It's a 1v1 game. Good players win their 1v1s consistently. Mediocre players don't. You can't argue a team has amazing players when that team's players keep losing. So, when you claim EGTL has amazing "individual" players, in essence you're claiming the team is amazing. When it's very much not. My point is you have none. You've tried to create some kind of artificial division between PL and individual leagues, except that's never how its worked. In BW, the players winning the most in PL were nearly always the same ones winning the individual leagues. You know why? Because that's what winners do. There were a few exceptions, like Sea, but that's why Sea is a well-recognized name, because of his unusually lopsided performance. The others were called snipers because they were only good at one particular matchup or map. It's why snipers are not given the same level of respect as the bonjwas and league winners. Until PL has 2v2 and 3v3 matches, you have no case. If EGTL had individually great players they would be winning. They're not and they don't. At least not right now. Do their players have the potential to be great? Yes. But you can't claim they're amazing when they continue to lose.
That's the thing though, that's wrong. It's simply wrong. There IS a difference between individual leagues and teamleagues. That's why I brought up the example of IM which had, without the shadow of a doubt, the greatest individual players of SC2 but always lost in teamleagues. Why? Unless you can answer that question, you're the one who has no case. I'm not arguing that all of EGTL are better players than everybody else. I'm saying that they have arguably the best lineup of individual top players in Taeja, HerO & Stephano and I'm also saying that it doesn't help them in a teamleague because they need an entire team to perform in order to win. Now, Taeja and Stephano haven't been playing for quite some time so you're basically relying on HerO to carry the team in a league that only lets him play once, twice if it goes to ace match.
The BW example is somewhat redundant because BW was WAY more figured out than SC2 is right now and BW was waaaay less volatile.
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On February 01 2013 23:56 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 23:53 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:47 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:43 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:34 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:30 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:26 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:18 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:08 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:02 SamsungStar wrote:[quote] Right, that's why EG did so well in winner's league. What a crock of doodoo. The team is just bad. There's no hidden reason for it. There's no need to make excuses. In other news, KHAN wins again Lol. You could argue that the "lower half" of EGTL isn't top tier. Then again, Zenio made Code A while tons of hyped kespa players didn't. HerO has 3 tournament wins under his belt + GSL Ro4 & Ro8 last year and a great performance at IPL5 that kinda fell under the radar because zerg suffocated the whole tournament. Taeja has won multiple tournaments and all killed multiple things and is currently performing well in GSL even though his wrists are in bad shape. Stephano has mulitple tournament wins and is always performing well. I wasn't arguing that EGTL was a good team. At least read the post correctly. I said INDIVIDUAL LEAGUE = GSL, MLG, etc. HerO, Taeja, Stephano would place higher at individual tournaments than 90% of the kespa players. That doesn't mean they'll perform well in PL. You could argue that the team is bad, whatever. What I'm saying is that EGTL has better individual players than most other teams but that it doesn't necessarily benefit them in a teamleague format like this, especially with Bo1s. Same reason why IM wasn't winning everything. You're only as good as your last game. Listing a bunch of old achievements is meaningless. Especially when last year the kespa players were playing BW. Most of the kespa players didn't even understand how the game worked when they got knocked out of GSL. It's only in the past month that JangBi said he learned what protoss is supposed to do in late game. Your examples don't make any sense in that context. EGTL's players aren't good. That's why they lose. Simple as that. Results are what matter and when EGTL plays their results end in LOSSES. EGTL doesn't have better individual players. It's not like PL has 3v3 matches. If their players were better, they would win! That's a dumb argument. Simply dumb. Being better doesn't mean you're gonna win in a Bo1. Like, if you gave me one game vs Jangbi and I got a lucky build order win, am I better than him? No? Well, according to your logic I would be because I won the game. As it is, Stephano, HerO and Taeja would wipe the floor with 90% of Kespa players in say a Bo5. The more games you play, the closer you get to seeing who's better. The fewer games you play, the more random it becomes. That's maths. Statistics. Again, when Mvp and Nestea won every tournament in the world but IM bombed out of teamleagues, were the IM players bad? It's a fucking dumb argument. LOL yeah man! Good players lose! But they're still better! Everyone else is just too dumb to understand! An entire season of fail is just a build order loss!! Roro and Jangbi would wipe the floor with 95% of Kespa players in say a Bo100. That's maths! Depth doesn't matter in a team. Just one or two players who win every tournament! It's fucking brilliant! I'm not even sure wtf you're arguing anymore. Do you even read what I'm saying? Yes, better players will lose Bo1s. They are, however, more likely to win a series the more are being played. I suggest you take a dice and roll it one time. Then come back and say "LOL every number except 5 is bad because 5 won!". It's definitely possible that 5 has a higher chance than other numbers but you can't tell from just one try. Because that's what you're saying. Other than that you're just spouting random sarcastic nonsense without making any real arguments except that "better players don't lose!!11!" which is simply dumb and wrong. So if that's all you have to say then... well Of course depth matters in a teamleague but I never said otherwise, WTF. I never said EGTL was the better team. I'm saying that they have the better top individual players but that it doesn't benefit them as much in a teamleague. WTFWTFWTF I suggest you take a dice. And roll it for five weeks. And when it never comes up EGTL, come back and tell me how great they are LOL. A whole team of better players don't lose for an entire season of WINNER's League, which is simply a smart and right observation. MVP and Nestea don't make a team. DEPTH does. WTF! I didn't... say... EGTL was a good team... Stop arguing against something I'm not even saying. IM had the best individual players in the world but was bad in teamleagues. EGTL has great individual players but is bad in this teamleague. Why are you even arguing about depth, I never said anything about depth. That was never even the point. Nothing you ever argued about was even the point No, you don't get it. There's no difference between "individual" and "team" players in SC2. I have no clue wtf you're on. It's a 1v1 game. Good players win their 1v1s consistently. Mediocre players don't. You can't argue a team has amazing players when that team's players keep losing. So, when you claim EGTL has amazing "individual" players, in essence you're claiming the team is amazing. When it's very much not. My point is you have none. You've tried to create some kind of artificial division between PL and individual leagues, except that's never how its worked. In BW, the players winning the most in PL were nearly always the same ones winning the individual leagues. You know why? Because that's what winners do. There were a few exceptions, like Sea, but that's why Sea is a well-recognized name, because of his unusually lopsided performance. The others were called snipers because they were only good at one particular matchup or map. It's why snipers are not given the same level of respect as the bonjwas and league winners. Until PL has 2v2 and 3v3 matches, you have no case. If EGTL had individually great players they would be winning. They're not and they don't. At least not right now. Do their players have the potential to be great? Yes. But you can't claim they're amazing when they continue to lose. That's the thing though, that's wrong. It's simply wrong. There IS a difference between individual leagues and teamleagues. That's why I brought up the example of IM which had, without the shadow of a doubt, the greatest individual players of SC2 but always lost in teamleagues. Why? Unless you can answer that question, you're the one who has no case.
You don't read very well.
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All the teams are really strong, basically every team has their ace players that are all closely matched. In the end this is a competition, one team is going to have to lose, even if they're all similar in strength. Yes, EG-TL has the talent to be first place, but all the teams have this talent. With the format of Bo1 games, there is too much volatility and therefore every team can win.
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lol at all those defenders. If you failed a bo1 with PRESET map AND opponent, you are bad. I mean cmon just one known map, one known opponent, days to prepare. Theres really no excuse if you cant do that, repeatedly no less
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Austria24417 Posts
On February 01 2013 23:58 Arceus wrote:
lol at all those defenders. If you failed a bo1 with PRESET map AND opponent, you are bad. I mean cmon just one known map, one known opponent, days to prepare. Theres really no excuse if you cant do that, repeatedly no less
WTF, silliest argument I've ever heard.
On February 01 2013 23:56 SamsungStar wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 23:56 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:53 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:47 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:43 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:34 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:30 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:26 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:18 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:08 DarkLordOlli wrote:
[quote]
Lol. You could argue that the "lower half" of EGTL isn't top tier. Then again, Zenio made Code A while tons of hyped kespa players didn't. HerO has 3 tournament wins under his belt + GSL Ro4 & Ro8 last year and a great performance at IPL5 that kinda fell under the radar because zerg suffocated the whole tournament. Taeja has won multiple tournaments and all killed multiple things and is currently performing well in GSL even though his wrists are in bad shape. Stephano has mulitple tournament wins and is always performing well.
I wasn't arguing that EGTL was a good team. At least read the post correctly. I said INDIVIDUAL LEAGUE = GSL, MLG, etc. HerO, Taeja, Stephano would place higher at individual tournaments than 90% of the kespa players.
That doesn't mean they'll perform well in PL. You could argue that the team is bad, whatever. What I'm saying is that EGTL has better individual players than most other teams but that it doesn't necessarily benefit them in a teamleague format like this, especially with Bo1s.
Same reason why IM wasn't winning everything. You're only as good as your last game. Listing a bunch of old achievements is meaningless. Especially when last year the kespa players were playing BW. Most of the kespa players didn't even understand how the game worked when they got knocked out of GSL. It's only in the past month that JangBi said he learned what protoss is supposed to do in late game. Your examples don't make any sense in that context. EGTL's players aren't good. That's why they lose. Simple as that. Results are what matter and when EGTL plays their results end in LOSSES. EGTL doesn't have better individual players. It's not like PL has 3v3 matches. If their players were better, they would win! That's a dumb argument. Simply dumb. Being better doesn't mean you're gonna win in a Bo1. Like, if you gave me one game vs Jangbi and I got a lucky build order win, am I better than him? No? Well, according to your logic I would be because I won the game. As it is, Stephano, HerO and Taeja would wipe the floor with 90% of Kespa players in say a Bo5. The more games you play, the closer you get to seeing who's better. The fewer games you play, the more random it becomes. That's maths. Statistics. Again, when Mvp and Nestea won every tournament in the world but IM bombed out of teamleagues, were the IM players bad? It's a fucking dumb argument. LOL yeah man! Good players lose! But they're still better! Everyone else is just too dumb to understand! An entire season of fail is just a build order loss!! Roro and Jangbi would wipe the floor with 95% of Kespa players in say a Bo100. That's maths! Depth doesn't matter in a team. Just one or two players who win every tournament! It's fucking brilliant! I'm not even sure wtf you're arguing anymore. Do you even read what I'm saying? Yes, better players will lose Bo1s. They are, however, more likely to win a series the more are being played. I suggest you take a dice and roll it one time. Then come back and say "LOL every number except 5 is bad because 5 won!". It's definitely possible that 5 has a higher chance than other numbers but you can't tell from just one try. Because that's what you're saying. Other than that you're just spouting random sarcastic nonsense without making any real arguments except that "better players don't lose!!11!" which is simply dumb and wrong. So if that's all you have to say then... well Of course depth matters in a teamleague but I never said otherwise, WTF. I never said EGTL was the better team. I'm saying that they have the better top individual players but that it doesn't benefit them as much in a teamleague. WTFWTFWTF I suggest you take a dice. And roll it for five weeks. And when it never comes up EGTL, come back and tell me how great they are LOL. A whole team of better players don't lose for an entire season of WINNER's League, which is simply a smart and right observation. MVP and Nestea don't make a team. DEPTH does. WTF! I didn't... say... EGTL was a good team... Stop arguing against something I'm not even saying. IM had the best individual players in the world but was bad in teamleagues. EGTL has great individual players but is bad in this teamleague. Why are you even arguing about depth, I never said anything about depth. That was never even the point. Nothing you ever argued about was even the point No, you don't get it. There's no difference between "individual" and "team" players in SC2. I have no clue wtf you're on. It's a 1v1 game. Good players win their 1v1s consistently. Mediocre players don't. You can't argue a team has amazing players when that team's players keep losing. So, when you claim EGTL has amazing "individual" players, in essence you're claiming the team is amazing. When it's very much not. My point is you have none. You've tried to create some kind of artificial division between PL and individual leagues, except that's never how its worked. In BW, the players winning the most in PL were nearly always the same ones winning the individual leagues. You know why? Because that's what winners do. There were a few exceptions, like Sea, but that's why Sea is a well-recognized name, because of his unusually lopsided performance. The others were called snipers because they were only good at one particular matchup or map. It's why snipers are not given the same level of respect as the bonjwas and league winners. Until PL has 2v2 and 3v3 matches, you have no case. If EGTL had individually great players they would be winning. They're not and they don't. At least not right now. Do their players have the potential to be great? Yes. But you can't claim they're amazing when they continue to lose. That's the thing though, that's wrong. It's simply wrong. There IS a difference between individual leagues and teamleagues. That's why I brought up the example of IM which had, without the shadow of a doubt, the greatest individual players of SC2 but always lost in teamleagues. Why? Unless you can answer that question, you're the one who has no case. You don't read very well.
?
Why don't you answer about IM. Why didn't IM win every teamleague?
Of course Samsung Khan deserved to win. Of course every team that wins against EGTL deserved their win. But taking those results and saying every player on EGTL is bad because they're not winning Bo1s is fucking dumb.
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I love all the bitching around here... delicious. While Samsung Khan just impresses again, with a 7 win streak! They're going insane... i absolutely love it. THAT's how you play proleague.
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On February 02 2013 00:01 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 23:58 Arceus wrote:
lol at all those defenders. If you failed a bo1 with PRESET map AND opponent, you are bad. I mean cmon just one known map, one known opponent, days to prepare. Theres really no excuse if you cant do that, repeatedly no less WTF, silliest argument I've ever heard.
Yeah, almost as bad as the guy arguing EGTL's losses in winner's league were due to their aces not getting more than once chance to win for their team.
You are just way too rabid of a fanboy. EGTL's aces are strong, but so are the aces of other teams in PL like Grumbels said. You're way overestimating their skill and that's why you find yourself needing to defend your team's abysmal performance when to everyone else it's plain as day that your players are simply not as good as you claim.
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On February 02 2013 00:01 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 23:58 Arceus wrote:
lol at all those defenders. If you failed a bo1 with PRESET map AND opponent, you are bad. I mean cmon just one known map, one known opponent, days to prepare. Theres really no excuse if you cant do that, repeatedly no less WTF, silliest argument I've ever heard. Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 23:56 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:56 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:53 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:47 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:43 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:34 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:30 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:26 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:18 SamsungStar wrote:
[quote]
You're only as good as your last game. Listing a bunch of old achievements is meaningless. Especially when last year the kespa players were playing BW. Most of the kespa players didn't even understand how the game worked when they got knocked out of GSL. It's only in the past month that JangBi said he learned what protoss is supposed to do in late game. Your examples don't make any sense in that context.
EGTL's players aren't good. That's why they lose. Simple as that. Results are what matter and when EGTL plays their results end in LOSSES. EGTL doesn't have better individual players. It's not like PL has 3v3 matches. If their players were better, they would win!
That's a dumb argument. Simply dumb. Being better doesn't mean you're gonna win in a Bo1. Like, if you gave me one game vs Jangbi and I got a lucky build order win, am I better than him? No? Well, according to your logic I would be because I won the game. As it is, Stephano, HerO and Taeja would wipe the floor with 90% of Kespa players in say a Bo5. The more games you play, the closer you get to seeing who's better. The fewer games you play, the more random it becomes. That's maths. Statistics. Again, when Mvp and Nestea won every tournament in the world but IM bombed out of teamleagues, were the IM players bad? It's a fucking dumb argument. LOL yeah man! Good players lose! But they're still better! Everyone else is just too dumb to understand! An entire season of fail is just a build order loss!! Roro and Jangbi would wipe the floor with 95% of Kespa players in say a Bo100. That's maths! Depth doesn't matter in a team. Just one or two players who win every tournament! It's fucking brilliant! I'm not even sure wtf you're arguing anymore. Do you even read what I'm saying? Yes, better players will lose Bo1s. They are, however, more likely to win a series the more are being played. I suggest you take a dice and roll it one time. Then come back and say "LOL every number except 5 is bad because 5 won!". It's definitely possible that 5 has a higher chance than other numbers but you can't tell from just one try. Because that's what you're saying. Other than that you're just spouting random sarcastic nonsense without making any real arguments except that "better players don't lose!!11!" which is simply dumb and wrong. So if that's all you have to say then... well Of course depth matters in a teamleague but I never said otherwise, WTF. I never said EGTL was the better team. I'm saying that they have the better top individual players but that it doesn't benefit them as much in a teamleague. WTFWTFWTF I suggest you take a dice. And roll it for five weeks. And when it never comes up EGTL, come back and tell me how great they are LOL. A whole team of better players don't lose for an entire season of WINNER's League, which is simply a smart and right observation. MVP and Nestea don't make a team. DEPTH does. WTF! I didn't... say... EGTL was a good team... Stop arguing against something I'm not even saying. IM had the best individual players in the world but was bad in teamleagues. EGTL has great individual players but is bad in this teamleague. Why are you even arguing about depth, I never said anything about depth. That was never even the point. Nothing you ever argued about was even the point No, you don't get it. There's no difference between "individual" and "team" players in SC2. I have no clue wtf you're on. It's a 1v1 game. Good players win their 1v1s consistently. Mediocre players don't. You can't argue a team has amazing players when that team's players keep losing. So, when you claim EGTL has amazing "individual" players, in essence you're claiming the team is amazing. When it's very much not. My point is you have none. You've tried to create some kind of artificial division between PL and individual leagues, except that's never how its worked. In BW, the players winning the most in PL were nearly always the same ones winning the individual leagues. You know why? Because that's what winners do. There were a few exceptions, like Sea, but that's why Sea is a well-recognized name, because of his unusually lopsided performance. The others were called snipers because they were only good at one particular matchup or map. It's why snipers are not given the same level of respect as the bonjwas and league winners. Until PL has 2v2 and 3v3 matches, you have no case. If EGTL had individually great players they would be winning. They're not and they don't. At least not right now. Do their players have the potential to be great? Yes. But you can't claim they're amazing when they continue to lose. That's the thing though, that's wrong. It's simply wrong. There IS a difference between individual leagues and teamleagues. That's why I brought up the example of IM which had, without the shadow of a doubt, the greatest individual players of SC2 but always lost in teamleagues. Why? Unless you can answer that question, you're the one who has no case. You don't read very well. ? Why don't you answer about IM. Why didn't IM win every teamleague?
1 - Why? Care to counter argument?
2 - you don´t see IM losing to everyone im team leagues.
btw, IM is 1st in group 2 of IPTL premier division this season
IPTL 2013 S1
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Austria24417 Posts
On February 02 2013 00:05 SamsungStar wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 00:01 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:58 Arceus wrote:
lol at all those defenders. If you failed a bo1 with PRESET map AND opponent, you are bad. I mean cmon just one known map, one known opponent, days to prepare. Theres really no excuse if you cant do that, repeatedly no less WTF, silliest argument I've ever heard. Yeah, almost as bad as the guy arguing EGTL's losses in winner's league were due to their aces not getting more than once chance to win for their team. You are just way too rabid of a fanboy. EGTL's aces are strong, but so are the aces of other teams in PL like Grumbels said. You're way overestimating their skill and that's why you find yourself needing to defend your team's abysmal performance when to everyone else it's plain as day that your players are simply not as good as you claim.
So who 3 killed Samsung Khan again? Oh right, HerO. Why did EGTL lose again? Oh right, because the rest of the lineup didn't perform. The team overall might be worse than the rest in PL, whatever. I'm not saying anything else.
I don't even care about their performance, lol. All I'm saying is that the hate against their players is fucking retarded as hell because teamleagues don't show individual skill as much as individual leagues because you, as an individual player, only get a smaller amount of games which makes it easier for you to lose. That's how it is.
Zenio for example might have a bad record in PL but hey, he made Code A which is something most kespa player can't say for themselves. That doesn't automatically mean that he's better of course. But he can't be as horrible as his PL statistics say.
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Austria24417 Posts
On February 02 2013 00:06 Taipoka wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 00:01 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:58 Arceus wrote:
lol at all those defenders. If you failed a bo1 with PRESET map AND opponent, you are bad. I mean cmon just one known map, one known opponent, days to prepare. Theres really no excuse if you cant do that, repeatedly no less WTF, silliest argument I've ever heard. On February 01 2013 23:56 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:56 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:53 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:47 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:43 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:34 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:30 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:26 DarkLordOlli wrote:
[quote]
That's a dumb argument. Simply dumb.
Being better doesn't mean you're gonna win in a Bo1. Like, if you gave me one game vs Jangbi and I got a lucky build order win, am I better than him? No? Well, according to your logic I would be because I won the game.
As it is, Stephano, HerO and Taeja would wipe the floor with 90% of Kespa players in say a Bo5. The more games you play, the closer you get to seeing who's better. The fewer games you play, the more random it becomes. That's maths. Statistics.
Again, when Mvp and Nestea won every tournament in the world but IM bombed out of teamleagues, were the IM players bad? It's a fucking dumb argument. LOL yeah man! Good players lose! But they're still better! Everyone else is just too dumb to understand! An entire season of fail is just a build order loss!! Roro and Jangbi would wipe the floor with 95% of Kespa players in say a Bo100. That's maths! Depth doesn't matter in a team. Just one or two players who win every tournament! It's fucking brilliant! I'm not even sure wtf you're arguing anymore. Do you even read what I'm saying? Yes, better players will lose Bo1s. They are, however, more likely to win a series the more are being played. I suggest you take a dice and roll it one time. Then come back and say "LOL every number except 5 is bad because 5 won!". It's definitely possible that 5 has a higher chance than other numbers but you can't tell from just one try. Because that's what you're saying. Other than that you're just spouting random sarcastic nonsense without making any real arguments except that "better players don't lose!!11!" which is simply dumb and wrong. So if that's all you have to say then... well Of course depth matters in a teamleague but I never said otherwise, WTF. I never said EGTL was the better team. I'm saying that they have the better top individual players but that it doesn't benefit them as much in a teamleague. WTFWTFWTF I suggest you take a dice. And roll it for five weeks. And when it never comes up EGTL, come back and tell me how great they are LOL. A whole team of better players don't lose for an entire season of WINNER's League, which is simply a smart and right observation. MVP and Nestea don't make a team. DEPTH does. WTF! I didn't... say... EGTL was a good team... Stop arguing against something I'm not even saying. IM had the best individual players in the world but was bad in teamleagues. EGTL has great individual players but is bad in this teamleague. Why are you even arguing about depth, I never said anything about depth. That was never even the point. Nothing you ever argued about was even the point No, you don't get it. There's no difference between "individual" and "team" players in SC2. I have no clue wtf you're on. It's a 1v1 game. Good players win their 1v1s consistently. Mediocre players don't. You can't argue a team has amazing players when that team's players keep losing. So, when you claim EGTL has amazing "individual" players, in essence you're claiming the team is amazing. When it's very much not. My point is you have none. You've tried to create some kind of artificial division between PL and individual leagues, except that's never how its worked. In BW, the players winning the most in PL were nearly always the same ones winning the individual leagues. You know why? Because that's what winners do. There were a few exceptions, like Sea, but that's why Sea is a well-recognized name, because of his unusually lopsided performance. The others were called snipers because they were only good at one particular matchup or map. It's why snipers are not given the same level of respect as the bonjwas and league winners. Until PL has 2v2 and 3v3 matches, you have no case. If EGTL had individually great players they would be winning. They're not and they don't. At least not right now. Do their players have the potential to be great? Yes. But you can't claim they're amazing when they continue to lose. That's the thing though, that's wrong. It's simply wrong. There IS a difference between individual leagues and teamleagues. That's why I brought up the example of IM which had, without the shadow of a doubt, the greatest individual players of SC2 but always lost in teamleagues. Why? Unless you can answer that question, you're the one who has no case. You don't read very well. ? Why don't you answer about IM. Why didn't IM win every teamleague? 1 - Why? Care to counter argument? 2 - you don´t see IM losing to everyone im team leagues.
IM got all killed by QXC back when Mvp and Nestea were the best players in the world. How is that possible if amazing individual players automatically mean that a team will do well, according to that other guy?
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On February 02 2013 00:13 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 00:06 Taipoka wrote:On February 02 2013 00:01 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:58 Arceus wrote:
lol at all those defenders. If you failed a bo1 with PRESET map AND opponent, you are bad. I mean cmon just one known map, one known opponent, days to prepare. Theres really no excuse if you cant do that, repeatedly no less WTF, silliest argument I've ever heard. On February 01 2013 23:56 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:56 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:53 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:47 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:43 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:34 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:30 SamsungStar wrote:
[quote]
LOL yeah man! Good players lose! But they're still better! Everyone else is just too dumb to understand! An entire season of fail is just a build order loss!! Roro and Jangbi would wipe the floor with 95% of Kespa players in say a Bo100. That's maths! Depth doesn't matter in a team. Just one or two players who win every tournament! It's fucking brilliant! I'm not even sure wtf you're arguing anymore. Do you even read what I'm saying? Yes, better players will lose Bo1s. They are, however, more likely to win a series the more are being played. I suggest you take a dice and roll it one time. Then come back and say "LOL every number except 5 is bad because 5 won!". It's definitely possible that 5 has a higher chance than other numbers but you can't tell from just one try. Because that's what you're saying. Other than that you're just spouting random sarcastic nonsense without making any real arguments except that "better players don't lose!!11!" which is simply dumb and wrong. So if that's all you have to say then... well Of course depth matters in a teamleague but I never said otherwise, WTF. I never said EGTL was the better team. I'm saying that they have the better top individual players but that it doesn't benefit them as much in a teamleague. WTFWTFWTF I suggest you take a dice. And roll it for five weeks. And when it never comes up EGTL, come back and tell me how great they are LOL. A whole team of better players don't lose for an entire season of WINNER's League, which is simply a smart and right observation. MVP and Nestea don't make a team. DEPTH does. WTF! I didn't... say... EGTL was a good team... Stop arguing against something I'm not even saying. IM had the best individual players in the world but was bad in teamleagues. EGTL has great individual players but is bad in this teamleague. Why are you even arguing about depth, I never said anything about depth. That was never even the point. Nothing you ever argued about was even the point No, you don't get it. There's no difference between "individual" and "team" players in SC2. I have no clue wtf you're on. It's a 1v1 game. Good players win their 1v1s consistently. Mediocre players don't. You can't argue a team has amazing players when that team's players keep losing. So, when you claim EGTL has amazing "individual" players, in essence you're claiming the team is amazing. When it's very much not. My point is you have none. You've tried to create some kind of artificial division between PL and individual leagues, except that's never how its worked. In BW, the players winning the most in PL were nearly always the same ones winning the individual leagues. You know why? Because that's what winners do. There were a few exceptions, like Sea, but that's why Sea is a well-recognized name, because of his unusually lopsided performance. The others were called snipers because they were only good at one particular matchup or map. It's why snipers are not given the same level of respect as the bonjwas and league winners. Until PL has 2v2 and 3v3 matches, you have no case. If EGTL had individually great players they would be winning. They're not and they don't. At least not right now. Do their players have the potential to be great? Yes. But you can't claim they're amazing when they continue to lose. That's the thing though, that's wrong. It's simply wrong. There IS a difference between individual leagues and teamleagues. That's why I brought up the example of IM which had, without the shadow of a doubt, the greatest individual players of SC2 but always lost in teamleagues. Why? Unless you can answer that question, you're the one who has no case. You don't read very well. ? Why don't you answer about IM. Why didn't IM win every teamleague? 1 - Why? Care to counter argument? 2 - you don´t see IM losing to everyone im team leagues. IM got all killed by QXC back when Mvp and Nestea were the best players in the world. How is that possible if amazing individual players automatically mean that a team will do well, according to that other guy?
iirc the QXC all kill was 3 B teamers and then Mvp as the last guy.
I really think you should just give up this argument by the way ;o
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On February 02 2013 00:13 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 00:06 Taipoka wrote:On February 02 2013 00:01 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:58 Arceus wrote:
lol at all those defenders. If you failed a bo1 with PRESET map AND opponent, you are bad. I mean cmon just one known map, one known opponent, days to prepare. Theres really no excuse if you cant do that, repeatedly no less WTF, silliest argument I've ever heard. On February 01 2013 23:56 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:56 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:53 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:47 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:43 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:34 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:30 SamsungStar wrote:
[quote]
LOL yeah man! Good players lose! But they're still better! Everyone else is just too dumb to understand! An entire season of fail is just a build order loss!! Roro and Jangbi would wipe the floor with 95% of Kespa players in say a Bo100. That's maths! Depth doesn't matter in a team. Just one or two players who win every tournament! It's fucking brilliant! I'm not even sure wtf you're arguing anymore. Do you even read what I'm saying? Yes, better players will lose Bo1s. They are, however, more likely to win a series the more are being played. I suggest you take a dice and roll it one time. Then come back and say "LOL every number except 5 is bad because 5 won!". It's definitely possible that 5 has a higher chance than other numbers but you can't tell from just one try. Because that's what you're saying. Other than that you're just spouting random sarcastic nonsense without making any real arguments except that "better players don't lose!!11!" which is simply dumb and wrong. So if that's all you have to say then... well Of course depth matters in a teamleague but I never said otherwise, WTF. I never said EGTL was the better team. I'm saying that they have the better top individual players but that it doesn't benefit them as much in a teamleague. WTFWTFWTF I suggest you take a dice. And roll it for five weeks. And when it never comes up EGTL, come back and tell me how great they are LOL. A whole team of better players don't lose for an entire season of WINNER's League, which is simply a smart and right observation. MVP and Nestea don't make a team. DEPTH does. WTF! I didn't... say... EGTL was a good team... Stop arguing against something I'm not even saying. IM had the best individual players in the world but was bad in teamleagues. EGTL has great individual players but is bad in this teamleague. Why are you even arguing about depth, I never said anything about depth. That was never even the point. Nothing you ever argued about was even the point No, you don't get it. There's no difference between "individual" and "team" players in SC2. I have no clue wtf you're on. It's a 1v1 game. Good players win their 1v1s consistently. Mediocre players don't. You can't argue a team has amazing players when that team's players keep losing. So, when you claim EGTL has amazing "individual" players, in essence you're claiming the team is amazing. When it's very much not. My point is you have none. You've tried to create some kind of artificial division between PL and individual leagues, except that's never how its worked. In BW, the players winning the most in PL were nearly always the same ones winning the individual leagues. You know why? Because that's what winners do. There were a few exceptions, like Sea, but that's why Sea is a well-recognized name, because of his unusually lopsided performance. The others were called snipers because they were only good at one particular matchup or map. It's why snipers are not given the same level of respect as the bonjwas and league winners. Until PL has 2v2 and 3v3 matches, you have no case. If EGTL had individually great players they would be winning. They're not and they don't. At least not right now. Do their players have the potential to be great? Yes. But you can't claim they're amazing when they continue to lose. That's the thing though, that's wrong. It's simply wrong. There IS a difference between individual leagues and teamleagues. That's why I brought up the example of IM which had, without the shadow of a doubt, the greatest individual players of SC2 but always lost in teamleagues. Why? Unless you can answer that question, you're the one who has no case. You don't read very well. ? Why don't you answer about IM. Why didn't IM win every teamleague? 1 - Why? Care to counter argument? 2 - you don´t see IM losing to everyone im team leagues. IM got all killed by QXC back when Mvp and Nestea were the best players in the world. How is that possible if amazing individual players automatically mean that a team will do well, according to that other guy?
Keep trying to use outliers to justify trends. I'm sure you'll find a lot of success with that strategy.
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Austria24417 Posts
On February 02 2013 00:15 SamsungStar wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 00:13 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 02 2013 00:06 Taipoka wrote:On February 02 2013 00:01 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:58 Arceus wrote:
lol at all those defenders. If you failed a bo1 with PRESET map AND opponent, you are bad. I mean cmon just one known map, one known opponent, days to prepare. Theres really no excuse if you cant do that, repeatedly no less WTF, silliest argument I've ever heard. On February 01 2013 23:56 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:56 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:53 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:47 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:43 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:34 DarkLordOlli wrote:
[quote]
I'm not even sure wtf you're arguing anymore.
Do you even read what I'm saying? Yes, better players will lose Bo1s. They are, however, more likely to win a series the more are being played. I suggest you take a dice and roll it one time. Then come back and say "LOL every number except 5 is bad because 5 won!". It's definitely possible that 5 has a higher chance than other numbers but you can't tell from just one try.
Because that's what you're saying. Other than that you're just spouting random sarcastic nonsense without making any real arguments except that "better players don't lose!!11!" which is simply dumb and wrong. So if that's all you have to say then... well
Of course depth matters in a teamleague but I never said otherwise, WTF. I never said EGTL was the better team. I'm saying that they have the better top individual players but that it doesn't benefit them as much in a teamleague. WTFWTFWTF I suggest you take a dice. And roll it for five weeks. And when it never comes up EGTL, come back and tell me how great they are LOL. A whole team of better players don't lose for an entire season of WINNER's League, which is simply a smart and right observation. MVP and Nestea don't make a team. DEPTH does. WTF! I didn't... say... EGTL was a good team... Stop arguing against something I'm not even saying. IM had the best individual players in the world but was bad in teamleagues. EGTL has great individual players but is bad in this teamleague. Why are you even arguing about depth, I never said anything about depth. That was never even the point. Nothing you ever argued about was even the point No, you don't get it. There's no difference between "individual" and "team" players in SC2. I have no clue wtf you're on. It's a 1v1 game. Good players win their 1v1s consistently. Mediocre players don't. You can't argue a team has amazing players when that team's players keep losing. So, when you claim EGTL has amazing "individual" players, in essence you're claiming the team is amazing. When it's very much not. My point is you have none. You've tried to create some kind of artificial division between PL and individual leagues, except that's never how its worked. In BW, the players winning the most in PL were nearly always the same ones winning the individual leagues. You know why? Because that's what winners do. There were a few exceptions, like Sea, but that's why Sea is a well-recognized name, because of his unusually lopsided performance. The others were called snipers because they were only good at one particular matchup or map. It's why snipers are not given the same level of respect as the bonjwas and league winners. Until PL has 2v2 and 3v3 matches, you have no case. If EGTL had individually great players they would be winning. They're not and they don't. At least not right now. Do their players have the potential to be great? Yes. But you can't claim they're amazing when they continue to lose. That's the thing though, that's wrong. It's simply wrong. There IS a difference between individual leagues and teamleagues. That's why I brought up the example of IM which had, without the shadow of a doubt, the greatest individual players of SC2 but always lost in teamleagues. Why? Unless you can answer that question, you're the one who has no case. You don't read very well. ? Why don't you answer about IM. Why didn't IM win every teamleague? 1 - Why? Care to counter argument? 2 - you don´t see IM losing to everyone im team leagues. IM got all killed by QXC back when Mvp and Nestea were the best players in the world. How is that possible if amazing individual players automatically mean that a team will do well, according to that other guy? Keep trying to find outliers to justify trends. I'm sure you'll find a lot of success with that strategy.
Straw man. Answer the question
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Austria24417 Posts
On February 02 2013 00:14 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 00:13 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 02 2013 00:06 Taipoka wrote:On February 02 2013 00:01 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:58 Arceus wrote:
lol at all those defenders. If you failed a bo1 with PRESET map AND opponent, you are bad. I mean cmon just one known map, one known opponent, days to prepare. Theres really no excuse if you cant do that, repeatedly no less WTF, silliest argument I've ever heard. On February 01 2013 23:56 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:56 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:53 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:47 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:43 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:34 DarkLordOlli wrote:
[quote]
I'm not even sure wtf you're arguing anymore.
Do you even read what I'm saying? Yes, better players will lose Bo1s. They are, however, more likely to win a series the more are being played. I suggest you take a dice and roll it one time. Then come back and say "LOL every number except 5 is bad because 5 won!". It's definitely possible that 5 has a higher chance than other numbers but you can't tell from just one try.
Because that's what you're saying. Other than that you're just spouting random sarcastic nonsense without making any real arguments except that "better players don't lose!!11!" which is simply dumb and wrong. So if that's all you have to say then... well
Of course depth matters in a teamleague but I never said otherwise, WTF. I never said EGTL was the better team. I'm saying that they have the better top individual players but that it doesn't benefit them as much in a teamleague. WTFWTFWTF I suggest you take a dice. And roll it for five weeks. And when it never comes up EGTL, come back and tell me how great they are LOL. A whole team of better players don't lose for an entire season of WINNER's League, which is simply a smart and right observation. MVP and Nestea don't make a team. DEPTH does. WTF! I didn't... say... EGTL was a good team... Stop arguing against something I'm not even saying. IM had the best individual players in the world but was bad in teamleagues. EGTL has great individual players but is bad in this teamleague. Why are you even arguing about depth, I never said anything about depth. That was never even the point. Nothing you ever argued about was even the point No, you don't get it. There's no difference between "individual" and "team" players in SC2. I have no clue wtf you're on. It's a 1v1 game. Good players win their 1v1s consistently. Mediocre players don't. You can't argue a team has amazing players when that team's players keep losing. So, when you claim EGTL has amazing "individual" players, in essence you're claiming the team is amazing. When it's very much not. My point is you have none. You've tried to create some kind of artificial division between PL and individual leagues, except that's never how its worked. In BW, the players winning the most in PL were nearly always the same ones winning the individual leagues. You know why? Because that's what winners do. There were a few exceptions, like Sea, but that's why Sea is a well-recognized name, because of his unusually lopsided performance. The others were called snipers because they were only good at one particular matchup or map. It's why snipers are not given the same level of respect as the bonjwas and league winners. Until PL has 2v2 and 3v3 matches, you have no case. If EGTL had individually great players they would be winning. They're not and they don't. At least not right now. Do their players have the potential to be great? Yes. But you can't claim they're amazing when they continue to lose. That's the thing though, that's wrong. It's simply wrong. There IS a difference between individual leagues and teamleagues. That's why I brought up the example of IM which had, without the shadow of a doubt, the greatest individual players of SC2 but always lost in teamleagues. Why? Unless you can answer that question, you're the one who has no case. You don't read very well. ? Why don't you answer about IM. Why didn't IM win every teamleague? 1 - Why? Care to counter argument? 2 - you don´t see IM losing to everyone im team leagues. IM got all killed by QXC back when Mvp and Nestea were the best players in the world. How is that possible if amazing individual players automatically mean that a team will do well, according to that other guy? iirc the QXC all kill was 3 B teamers and then Mvp as the last guy. I really think you should just give up this argument by the way ;o
Mvp was the best player in the world, how could he possibly lose a Bo1?!?! Impossible!!!
Yeah I'll give up soon. People just love to hate on player who lose Bo1s.
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EPT
