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On December 03 2012 18:33 SoFrOsTy wrote:
As far as this double elim goes. Either the whole tournament has a loser round and it works as is and everyone is happy, or do it like GSL with NO loser bracket so the finals are players meeting for the first time and no second chances. As it went, whether people like it or not, leenock won fair and square by getting the 2nd BO 3. If it wasn't double elimination, Violet would not have even been in the finals because Leenock would have knocked him out earlier 3-1.
Anyway, I am proud of leenock, he played so well!
GSL groups are double elimination format. Except no extended series in final series.
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Given the Volatily of this game, Double elimination for tournaments which happen over the course of one unique week end is totally logical.
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On December 03 2012 18:17 ZerglingTwins wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2012 18:15 Chill Penguin wrote:On December 03 2012 18:04 ZerglingTwins wrote:On December 03 2012 17:59 Chill Penguin wrote:On December 03 2012 17:54 ZerglingTwins wrote:On December 03 2012 17:45 Chill Penguin wrote:On December 03 2012 17:38 Parcelleus wrote:On December 03 2012 17:29 Canucklehead wrote:On December 03 2012 17:27 Parcelleus wrote:
Guaranteed way to piss off your tournament viewers and lower the prestige of a tournament:
Have an Extended-series Grand final and have your semi-finals BO3.
*shakes head in disgust*
violet shows a 3-2 in the Grand Final - and loses the tournament ! lol Huh it wasn't extended series. It was double elimination. Would be more disgusting if leenock was the only person who never got a second life. If it was single elim, violet would have been out before that point. Still amazing to me how so many people still don't understand how double elimination works. Violet was only in the finals because he got a 2nd chance after already losing to leenock in the winner's finals. I dont like the format at all - that is my point. Should be groups , winners and losers bracket to get into groups and top places in the group goto playoffs - then you have a grand final that is played on its own terms - not relying on earlier games. As I said - violet wins the grand final 3-2 and loses the tournament - you cant see a problem with that ? When a player performs better in the Grand final - they should win the whole thing. Like BWC, GSL etc. In a double elimination tournament, there is no problem with that. Leenock deserves the 2nd chance, just like every single player in the tournament got before him. So in you're format you'd have a single elimination tournament AFTER the group stage? Double elimination is stupid format at the first place. Double elimination is possibly the best format to ensure that the best player wins, and I find it much more exciting seeing players make huge runs from an open bracket instead of round robin groups. However as parcelleus said before, the format doesn't lend itself to having a great grand final format. Double elimination format prolongs the tournament, damps the excitement in first elimination round, and Bo3 is too short in the second elimination, also not so interesting. Grand final is a mess. Matches are just matches, most of them are not precious and critical, hard to form rivalry. All you remember is a long tournament happened, not some critical matches. What?....... Every single match in a double elimination tournament is precious and critical. 2 series losses and your out. Key word "2" You can do it in groups, but after at least Ro8, it should be single elimination.
The versatility of the double elim bracket was enjoyable. The bo3, while perhaps I would've preferred a bo9 extended series, gave it a sort of tiebreaker feeling. With viOlet coming out of the loser's bracket and evening up the score with two bo5 victories for each, a final bo3 was needed to settle that equivalency. It was like leenock was finally sent to the "losers bracket" by losing to viOlet 3-2 and had to win that final bo3 to secure the championship.
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Hands down the best tournament and esports event this year.
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Well, the double elimination format is just the best format out there... Ans even if it wasn't a double elimination tournament, we'd have the same champion. ViOlet just had the chance to win the tournament in the grand final BECAUSE of the double elim. Format.
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On December 03 2012 18:47 Swisslink wrote:
Well, the double elimination format is just the best format out there... Ans even if it wasn't a double elimination tournament, we'd have the same champion. ViOlet just had the chance to win the tournament in the grand final BECAUSE of the double elim. Format.
It is not the best format, if it is, why isn't any real professional sports using it? Those people clearly knows how to run a tournament better than esports people. Double elim format just lacks excitement.
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On December 03 2012 18:48 ZerglingTwins wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2012 18:47 Swisslink wrote:
Well, the double elimination format is just the best format out there... Ans even if it wasn't a double elimination tournament, we'd have the same champion. ViOlet just had the chance to win the tournament in the grand final BECAUSE of the double elim. Format. It is not the best format, if it is, why isn't any real professional sports using it? Those people clearly knows how to run a tournament better than esports people.
Is there really a "best format"? In my opinion people are just bitching 'cause their favorite player didnt win.
But hell, I think we're all getting used to the bitching, so go on, have fun.
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Grtz to Leenock. Deserved champion.
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On December 03 2012 18:51 Douillos wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2012 18:48 ZerglingTwins wrote:On December 03 2012 18:47 Swisslink wrote:
Well, the double elimination format is just the best format out there... Ans even if it wasn't a double elimination tournament, we'd have the same champion. ViOlet just had the chance to win the tournament in the grand final BECAUSE of the double elim. Format. It is not the best format, if it is, why isn't any real professional sports using it? Those people clearly knows how to run a tournament better than esports people. Is there really a "best format"? In my opinion people are just bitching 'cause their favorite player didnt win. But hell, I think we're all getting used to the bitching, so go on, have fun.
Amen.
It has been 4 extraordinary tournament-days. The different events made every day feel unique and it was a great viewer experience and an awesome crowd. In the days before everything kicked off, I and others complained about some bracket-structure problems and it was great to see that they were handled before the tournament started. Thanks IPL, very impressive performance overall!
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Gj m0ck, focus on positives!
It's been 4 great days of tournament. I liked watching every single thing IPL and GSL put on this weekend and it seemed like overall a great event with only minimal issues which is almost a given for a tournament anyway.
And Leenock is the best ewok ever. If he had been on Endor he'd have solo'd the shield generator. Like a boss.
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Congratulations to Leenock, I guess it ended up closer than I thought, but then that's a good thing for the spectators. Shame I couldn't watch it anymore, but it just ran ridiculously late and ZvZ wasn't enough to deprive me of two hours of sleep.
A big thanks to GOM for their (for an esports event) extraordinary production, they're just so much better than everybody else and deserve every cent they get. Great tournament, probably the best in 2012, although WCS Europe comes close for me because it was a lot of fun, too, and I didn't have to fuck up my sleep schedule completely and be tired as fuck for a whole week.
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Well, I already write this a few times, but still..
IPL 5 WAS AMAZING! damn it was an awesome tournement. Great players pool, great tournament system, great mesh up with gsl finals, great world vs korea stuff, everyday was filled to brim. it was 4 days straight with a little under or over 12 hours of broadcast and energy hardly droped a bit.
Great tournament. I feel like mailing supponsers but never did it, how do we do that thing.
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Btw I know this is not the right place to talk about it, but I didnt do enough prep work to open a new thread about it.
having a double elimination tourney is great, but finals are always a downer for me. when losers finalist wins, its incredible story line but when winners bracket champion wins Its still great but still, you know there is that voice telling "well he onyl had to win one best of 3!" at back of your head. its annoying.
is it possible to have 2 completly seperate brackets of double elimination, and having winner of those brackets fight in the grand finals. this way none of them will have a set advantage over other.
it might no be possible for most tourneys, but in a tournament like ipl with 71 players, I think it might be really good.
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On December 03 2012 18:48 ZerglingTwins wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2012 18:47 Swisslink wrote:
Well, the double elimination format is just the best format out there... Ans even if it wasn't a double elimination tournament, we'd have the same champion. ViOlet just had the chance to win the tournament in the grand final BECAUSE of the double elim. Format. It is not the best format, if it is, why isn't any real professional sports using it? Those people clearly knows how to run a tournament better than esports people. Double elim format just lacks excitement.
most sports cannon not support double elimination because of time or logistic restraints, there is thrice the game count in a double elimination tourney. so most sports either fallow a timely league format or short group fallow by single elim. some sports just cant have that many matches cause it would wear down athelets alot.
also "real" sports come with "real" broadcasting, so few event other than huge industries like football or basketball, or whatever that crazy kids in america plays are given that much broadcast time.
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where to find the replays ?
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On December 03 2012 18:48 ZerglingTwins wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2012 18:47 Swisslink wrote:
Well, the double elimination format is just the best format out there... Ans even if it wasn't a double elimination tournament, we'd have the same champion. ViOlet just had the chance to win the tournament in the grand final BECAUSE of the double elim. Format. It is not the best format, if it is, why isn't any real professional sports using it? Those people clearly knows how to run a tournament better than esports people. Double elim format just lacks excitement.
Most of the tournaments can't do it because of the schedule. In football for example, already with a single elimination format there are lots of places required where they can play. Even more matches (and double elimination tournaments result in LOTS of matches), would be disastrous. On the other hand there's the fact that there aren't many sport events which take place on one single weekend. It's just not possible to run these tournaments with a double elimination system.
If one starcraft 2 match took 1.5h and after each match they'd have a week to rest, nobody would choose the double elimination format for the tournaments - but as that is not the case it's possible ans kinda fair for all the participants.
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I fell asleep after Polt vs Violet, so missed the grand final. Since I'm a bit tired of watching tons of SC2 after this weekend, I'm just wondering if any of the games were really good? Like, Leenock vs Life on Cloud Kingdom at MLG good.
I'm pleasantly surprised that Violet did this well, feels like Leenock is on another level.
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f..k I`m so tired.. slept 2 h, when i woke up wathc the grand final... so so tired.. what a start of the week
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On December 03 2012 19:41 Cuce wrote:
Btw I know this is not the right place to talk about it, but I didnt do enough prep work to open a new thread about it.
having a double elimination tourney is great, but finals are always a downer for me. when losers finalist wins, its incredible story line but when winners bracket champion wins Its still great but still, you know there is that voice telling "well he onyl had to win one best of 3!" at back of your head. its annoying.
is it possible to have 2 completly seperate brackets of double elimination, and having winner of those brackets fight in the grand finals. this way none of them will have a set advantage over other.
it might no be possible for most tourneys, but in a tournament like ipl with 71 players, I think it might be really good.
Yes. See NCAA College World Series baseball since 1988, and MLG Pro Circuit StarCraft tournaments since 2012 Summer Arena.
As for the IPL5 format, I don't like that the Winners Bracket player can win at the final stage with LLLLWW, but I suppose it makes for a better scheduling fit than possibly having 10 games (two full Bo5 series) at the end of a tournament that ran as late as this one did.
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EPT
