• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 20:14
CET 02:14
KST 10:14
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview1TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners11Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting12
Community News
[TLMC] Fall/Winter 2025 Ladder Map Rotation10Weekly Cups (Nov 3-9): Clem Conquers in Canada4SC: Evo Complete - Ranked Ladder OPEN ALPHA8StarCraft, SC2, HotS, WC3, Returning to Blizzcon!45$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship7
StarCraft 2
General
RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview [TLMC] Fall/Winter 2025 Ladder Map Rotation Mech is the composition that needs teleportation t Weekly Cups (Nov 3-9): Clem Conquers in Canada Craziest Micro Moments Of All Time?
Tourneys
RSL Revival: Season 3 Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest Tenacious Turtle Tussle Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened Mutation # 496 Endless Infection
Brood War
General
FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle Brood War web app to calculate unit interactions [ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions BW General Discussion Terran 1:35 12 Gas Optimization
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL21] RO32 Group D - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO32 Group C - Saturday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Current Meta Simple Questions, Simple Answers PvZ map balance How to stay on top of macro?
Other Games
General Games
Clair Obscur - Expedition 33 Should offensive tower rushing be viable in RTS games? Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread EVE Corporation
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
Artificial Intelligence Thread US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! Korean Music Discussion Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Dyadica Gospel – a Pulp No…
Hildegard
Coffee x Performance in Espo…
TrAiDoS
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Reality "theory" prov…
perfectspheres
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1467 users

[IPL5] Day 4 - Page 250

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
Post a Reply
Prev 1 248 249 250 251 252 253 Next
ZerglingTwins
Profile Joined October 2012
United States850 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-03 09:36:45
December 03 2012 09:35 GMT
#4981
On December 03 2012 18:33 SoFrOsTy wrote:
As far as this double elim goes. Either the whole tournament has a loser round and it works as is and everyone is happy, or do it like GSL with NO loser bracket so the finals are players meeting for the first time and no second chances. As it went, whether people like it or not, leenock won fair and square by getting the 2nd BO 3. If it wasn't double elimination, Violet would not have even been in the finals because Leenock would have knocked him out earlier 3-1.


Anyway, I am proud of leenock, he played so well!


GSL groups are double elimination format. Except no extended series in final series.
Searching for my twin ling brother.
Douillos
Profile Joined May 2010
France3195 Posts
December 03 2012 09:38 GMT
#4982
Given the Volatily of this game, Double elimination for tournaments which happen over the course of one unique week end is totally logical.

Look a giraffe! Look a fist!!
Crescens
Profile Joined October 2012
Bhutan19 Posts
December 03 2012 09:38 GMT
#4983
On December 03 2012 18:17 ZerglingTwins wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 03 2012 18:15 Chill Penguin wrote:
On December 03 2012 18:04 ZerglingTwins wrote:
On December 03 2012 17:59 Chill Penguin wrote:
On December 03 2012 17:54 ZerglingTwins wrote:
On December 03 2012 17:45 Chill Penguin wrote:
On December 03 2012 17:38 Parcelleus wrote:
On December 03 2012 17:29 Canucklehead wrote:
On December 03 2012 17:27 Parcelleus wrote:
Guaranteed way to piss off your tournament viewers and lower the prestige of a tournament:

Have an Extended-series Grand final and have your semi-finals BO3.

*shakes head in disgust*

violet shows a 3-2 in the Grand Final - and loses the tournament ! lol


Huh it wasn't extended series. It was double elimination. Would be more disgusting if leenock was the only person who never got a second life. If it was single elim, violet would have been out before that point. Still amazing to me how so many people still don't understand how double elimination works. Violet was only in the finals because he got a 2nd chance after already losing to leenock in the winner's finals.


I dont like the format at all - that is my point.

Should be groups , winners and losers bracket to get into groups and top places in the group goto playoffs - then you have a grand final that is played on its own terms - not relying on earlier games.

As I said - violet wins the grand final 3-2 and loses the tournament - you cant see a problem with that ?

When a player performs better in the Grand final - they should win the whole thing. Like BWC, GSL etc.



In a double elimination tournament, there is no problem with that. Leenock deserves the 2nd chance, just like every single player in the tournament got before him.

So in you're format you'd have a single elimination tournament AFTER the group stage?


Double elimination is stupid format at the first place.



Double elimination is possibly the best format to ensure that the best player wins, and I find it much more exciting seeing players make huge runs from an open bracket instead of round robin groups. However as parcelleus said before, the format doesn't lend itself to having a great grand final format.


Double elimination format prolongs the tournament, damps the excitement in first elimination round, and Bo3 is too short in the second elimination, also not so interesting. Grand final is a mess. Matches are just matches, most of them are not precious and critical, hard to form rivalry. All you remember is a long tournament happened, not some critical matches.



What?.......

Every single match in a double elimination tournament is precious and critical. 2 series losses and your out.



Key word "2"

You can do it in groups, but after at least Ro8, it should be single elimination.

The versatility of the double elim bracket was enjoyable. The bo3, while perhaps I would've preferred a bo9 extended series, gave it a sort of tiebreaker feeling. With viOlet coming out of the loser's bracket and evening up the score with two bo5 victories for each, a final bo3 was needed to settle that equivalency. It was like leenock was finally sent to the "losers bracket" by losing to viOlet 3-2 and had to win that final bo3 to secure the championship.
Kontys
Profile Joined October 2011
Finland659 Posts
December 03 2012 09:42 GMT
#4984
Hands down the best tournament and esports event this year.
Swisslink
Profile Joined March 2011
2954 Posts
December 03 2012 09:47 GMT
#4985
Well, the double elimination format is just the best format out there... Ans even if it wasn't a double elimination tournament, we'd have the same champion. ViOlet just had the chance to win the tournament in the grand final BECAUSE of the double elim. Format.
ZerglingTwins
Profile Joined October 2012
United States850 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-03 09:51:03
December 03 2012 09:48 GMT
#4986
On December 03 2012 18:47 Swisslink wrote:
Well, the double elimination format is just the best format out there... Ans even if it wasn't a double elimination tournament, we'd have the same champion. ViOlet just had the chance to win the tournament in the grand final BECAUSE of the double elim. Format.


It is not the best format, if it is, why isn't any real professional sports using it? Those people clearly knows how to run a tournament better than esports people. Double elim format just lacks excitement.
Searching for my twin ling brother.
Douillos
Profile Joined May 2010
France3195 Posts
December 03 2012 09:51 GMT
#4987
On December 03 2012 18:48 ZerglingTwins wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 03 2012 18:47 Swisslink wrote:
Well, the double elimination format is just the best format out there... Ans even if it wasn't a double elimination tournament, we'd have the same champion. ViOlet just had the chance to win the tournament in the grand final BECAUSE of the double elim. Format.


It is not the best format, if it is, why isn't any real professional sports using it? Those people clearly knows how to run a tournament better than esports people.



Is there really a "best format"? In my opinion people are just bitching 'cause their favorite player didnt win.

But hell, I think we're all getting used to the bitching, so go on, have fun.
Look a giraffe! Look a fist!!
Koshi
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Belgium38799 Posts
December 03 2012 10:03 GMT
#4988
Grtz to Leenock. Deserved champion.
I had a good night of sleep.
m0ck
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
4194 Posts
December 03 2012 10:05 GMT
#4989
On December 03 2012 18:51 Douillos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 03 2012 18:48 ZerglingTwins wrote:
On December 03 2012 18:47 Swisslink wrote:
Well, the double elimination format is just the best format out there... Ans even if it wasn't a double elimination tournament, we'd have the same champion. ViOlet just had the chance to win the tournament in the grand final BECAUSE of the double elim. Format.


It is not the best format, if it is, why isn't any real professional sports using it? Those people clearly knows how to run a tournament better than esports people.



Is there really a "best format"? In my opinion people are just bitching 'cause their favorite player didnt win.

But hell, I think we're all getting used to the bitching, so go on, have fun.

Amen.

It has been 4 extraordinary tournament-days. The different events made every day feel unique and it was a great viewer experience and an awesome crowd. In the days before everything kicked off, I and others complained about some bracket-structure problems and it was great to see that they were handled before the tournament started. Thanks IPL, very impressive performance overall!
bittman
Profile Joined February 2011
Australia8759 Posts
December 03 2012 10:18 GMT
#4990
Gj m0ck, focus on positives!

It's been 4 great days of tournament. I liked watching every single thing IPL and GSL put on this weekend and it seemed like overall a great event with only minimal issues which is almost a given for a tournament anyway.

And Leenock is the best ewok ever. If he had been on Endor he'd have solo'd the shield generator. Like a boss.
Mvp - Leenock - Dongraegu - MC - Gumiho - Keen - Polt - Squirtle - Jjakji - Genius - Seed - Life - sC - Dream || LG-IM - MVP - FXO
StarVe
Profile Joined June 2011
Germany13591 Posts
December 03 2012 10:20 GMT
#4991
Congratulations to Leenock, I guess it ended up closer than I thought, but then that's a good thing for the spectators. Shame I couldn't watch it anymore, but it just ran ridiculously late and ZvZ wasn't enough to deprive me of two hours of sleep.

A big thanks to GOM for their (for an esports event) extraordinary production, they're just so much better than everybody else and deserve every cent they get. Great tournament, probably the best in 2012, although WCS Europe comes close for me because it was a lot of fun, too, and I didn't have to fuck up my sleep schedule completely and be tired as fuck for a whole week.
Cuce
Profile Joined March 2011
Turkey1127 Posts
December 03 2012 10:36 GMT
#4992
Well, I already write this a few times, but still..
IPL 5 WAS AMAZING! damn it was an awesome tournement. Great players pool, great tournament system, great mesh up with gsl finals, great world vs korea stuff, everyday was filled to brim. it was 4 days straight with a little under or over 12 hours of broadcast and energy hardly droped a bit.

Great tournament. I feel like mailing supponsers but never did it, how do we do that thing.
64K RAM SYSTEM 38911 BASIC BYTES FREE
Cuce
Profile Joined March 2011
Turkey1127 Posts
December 03 2012 10:41 GMT
#4993
Btw I know this is not the right place to talk about it, but I didnt do enough prep work to open a new thread about it.

having a double elimination tourney is great, but finals are always a downer for me. when losers finalist wins, its incredible story line but when winners bracket champion wins Its still great but still, you know there is that voice telling "well he onyl had to win one best of 3!" at back of your head. its annoying.

is it possible to have 2 completly seperate brackets of double elimination, and having winner of those brackets fight in the grand finals. this way none of them will have a set advantage over other.

it might no be possible for most tourneys, but in a tournament like ipl with 71 players, I think it might be really good.
64K RAM SYSTEM 38911 BASIC BYTES FREE
Cuce
Profile Joined March 2011
Turkey1127 Posts
December 03 2012 10:45 GMT
#4994
On December 03 2012 18:48 ZerglingTwins wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 03 2012 18:47 Swisslink wrote:
Well, the double elimination format is just the best format out there... Ans even if it wasn't a double elimination tournament, we'd have the same champion. ViOlet just had the chance to win the tournament in the grand final BECAUSE of the double elim. Format.


It is not the best format, if it is, why isn't any real professional sports using it? Those people clearly knows how to run a tournament better than esports people. Double elim format just lacks excitement.


most sports cannon not support double elimination because of time or logistic restraints, there is thrice the game count in a double elimination tourney. so most sports either fallow a timely league format or short group fallow by single elim. some sports just cant have that many matches cause it would wear down athelets alot.

also "real" sports come with "real" broadcasting, so few event other than huge industries like football or basketball, or whatever that crazy kids in america plays are given that much broadcast time.
64K RAM SYSTEM 38911 BASIC BYTES FREE
IceBergZ
Profile Joined September 2012
Malaysia176 Posts
December 03 2012 11:03 GMT
#4995
where to find the replays ?
Swisslink
Profile Joined March 2011
2954 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-03 11:07:06
December 03 2012 11:05 GMT
#4996
On December 03 2012 18:48 ZerglingTwins wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 03 2012 18:47 Swisslink wrote:
Well, the double elimination format is just the best format out there... Ans even if it wasn't a double elimination tournament, we'd have the same champion. ViOlet just had the chance to win the tournament in the grand final BECAUSE of the double elim. Format.


It is not the best format, if it is, why isn't any real professional sports using it? Those people clearly knows how to run a tournament better than esports people. Double elim format just lacks excitement.


Most of the tournaments can't do it because of the schedule. In football for example, already with a single elimination format there are lots of places required where they can play. Even more matches (and double elimination tournaments result in LOTS of matches), would be disastrous. On the other hand there's the fact that there aren't many sport events which take place on one single weekend. It's just not possible to run these tournaments with a double elimination system.

If one starcraft 2 match took 1.5h and after each match they'd have a week to rest, nobody would choose the double elimination format for the tournaments - but as that is not the case it's possible ans kinda fair for all the participants.
MrJoKer
Profile Joined November 2011
France232 Posts
December 03 2012 11:22 GMT
#4997
Gratz Leenock !
@AbeggJip
DJHelium
Profile Joined December 2010
Sweden13480 Posts
December 03 2012 11:39 GMT
#4998
I fell asleep after Polt vs Violet, so missed the grand final. Since I'm a bit tired of watching tons of SC2 after this weekend, I'm just wondering if any of the games were really good? Like, Leenock vs Life on Cloud Kingdom at MLG good.

I'm pleasantly surprised that Violet did this well, feels like Leenock is on another level.
#1 player in the world atm: J-god | Follow me on twitter! @DJHelium
jarod
Profile Joined September 2010
Romania766 Posts
December 03 2012 11:58 GMT
#4999
f..k I`m so tired.. slept 2 h, when i woke up wathc the grand final... so so tired.. what a start of the week
Maru | Life | herO
jobber123rd
Profile Joined December 2011
United States501 Posts
December 03 2012 12:03 GMT
#5000
On December 03 2012 19:41 Cuce wrote:
Btw I know this is not the right place to talk about it, but I didnt do enough prep work to open a new thread about it.

having a double elimination tourney is great, but finals are always a downer for me. when losers finalist wins, its incredible story line but when winners bracket champion wins Its still great but still, you know there is that voice telling "well he onyl had to win one best of 3!" at back of your head. its annoying.

is it possible to have 2 completly seperate brackets of double elimination, and having winner of those brackets fight in the grand finals. this way none of them will have a set advantage over other.

it might no be possible for most tourneys, but in a tournament like ipl with 71 players, I think it might be really good.


Yes. See NCAA College World Series baseball since 1988, and MLG Pro Circuit StarCraft tournaments since 2012 Summer Arena.

As for the IPL5 format, I don't like that the Winners Bracket player can win at the final stage with LLLLWW, but I suppose it makes for a better scheduling fit than possibly having 10 games (two full Bo5 series) at the end of a tournament that ran as late as this one did.

"I'm always going to survive. Only reason I can't survive is if I'm dead or something." --Mike Tyson
Prev 1 248 249 250 251 252 253 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
PiGosaur Cup
01:00
#57
PiGStarcraft360
davetesta51
CranKy Ducklings41
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ProTech114
trigger 24
Vindicta 3
PiGStarcraft0
StarCraft: Brood War
Artosis 680
Shuttle 620
Sexy 57
Dota 2
monkeys_forever266
League of Legends
Cuddl3bear3
Counter-Strike
fl0m673
Foxcn177
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox200
AZ_Axe124
Other Games
summit1g12932
gofns5612
Grubby3417
shahzam533
C9.Mang0160
ViBE147
fpsfer 1
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick631
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 83
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21355
Other Games
• imaqtpie1953
• Scarra440
Upcoming Events
RSL Revival
8h 46m
Classic vs Creator
Cure vs TriGGeR
Kung Fu Cup
10h 46m
GuMiho vs MaNa
herO vs ShoWTimE
Classic vs TBD
WardiTV Korean Royale
10h 46m
CranKy Ducklings
1d 8h
RSL Revival
1d 8h
herO vs Gerald
ByuN vs SHIN
Kung Fu Cup
1d 10h
Cure vs Reynor
IPSL
1d 15h
ZZZero vs rasowy
Napoleon vs KameZerg
BSL 21
1d 18h
Tarson vs Julia
Doodle vs OldBoy
eOnzErG vs WolFix
StRyKeR vs Aeternum
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
Reynor vs sOs
Maru vs Ryung
[ Show More ]
Kung Fu Cup
2 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
2 days
BSL 21
2 days
JDConan vs Semih
Dragon vs Dienmax
Tech vs NewOcean
TerrOr vs Artosis
IPSL
2 days
Dewalt vs WolFix
eOnzErG vs Bonyth
Replay Cast
2 days
Wardi Open
3 days
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
4 days
BSL: GosuLeague
4 days
The PondCast
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
RSL Revival
6 days
BSL: GosuLeague
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-11-07
Stellar Fest: Constellation Cup
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
CSCL: Masked Kings S3
RSL Revival: Season 3
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual

Upcoming

SLON Tour Season 2
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.