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Ladies and gentlemen, it is page 143 and any patchzerg, balance related commentary and the usual bashing etc from this point on will be met with harsh moderation. |
woha huk beating ryung, didnt expect that...
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On December 01 2012 06:11 nihlon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2012 06:09 Diavlo wrote:On December 01 2012 06:05 Cyro wrote:On December 01 2012 06:02 Zenbrez wrote:On December 01 2012 05:59 TheBB wrote:
Kinda sad Violet will get hardly any credit for that. For what? Hero not getting any archon's into the vortex? Violet played that properly, but he didn't end up winning because of his decision making, Hero didn't execute it 100% perfectly Thats exactly what the problem is. We have a situation where you have to play "100% perfectly" to win, that makes far superior players lose games on a regular basis. Even winrates and skill requirements were balanced out, the matchup would be competely broken because the only thing bringing it remotely close to equilibrium are several borderline completely broken all in's that hit in the early to midgame transition that are a mirror of the exact same problem Hero didn't have to play 100% perfectly to win. Just not lose the mothership while landing two vortex without archons on infestors which had already thrown their infested terrans. Hero had this game and he blew it, just like it happens in every match-up, it's just more flashy when its ZvP. He used the vortex's because he was fungalled and would have gotten destroyed by the infested terrans otherwise.
Which would have never happened if he had not let his mothership run a screen away from his army into infestors.
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On December 01 2012 06:10 Coolhwip wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2012 06:07 Undead1993 wrote:On December 01 2012 06:04 Derrida wrote:
To be honest, I thought Hero played close to optimal for a protoss who did not resort to immortal-sentry. Kill the morphing in greater spire, pushing, constant prism harrass, two good vortex... Not sure how he lost. Any insights? The last two vortexes were awful, did you even watch the game. this wasl ike the worst engagement ever sorry i love hero but this was simply a thrown game with this engagement. I think he ment the 2 absolutley great ones in the first late game engagement. He made 2 perfect vortexes and came out even.
Ok, then remember one thing you NEVER EVER go with your whole army into this vortex. first of all the zerglings will destroy the stalkers second the Collossi dont have such a huge attack area, because the zerglings are directly under them and 3rd the archons get pushed away and cant reach the broods and corrupters. I agree, it was an amazing vortex but why would you move your whole army into this vortex simply a very huge mistake.
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On December 01 2012 06:11 Fenrax wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2012 06:07 Flummie wrote:Don't worry guys.. next patch eggs -20 hp! It will all be different  Yeah, such trolling by Blizzard lol. Riot would have just nerfed the fuck of this piece of OP shit Infestor that I cant stand to see anymore, give a random Hydra buff and everybody would have been happy. Like 10 months ago.
I'm a freaking Protoss and I want to see a Hydra buff!!!!
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can someone gimme a quick sentence summary on the MC/sniper and stephano/hyun sea/life series pls? tyty. were they even on stream?
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United Kingdom50293 Posts
On December 01 2012 06:13 opterown wrote:
bboong > seed
Chae is currently in the IM house smashing seed's trophy.
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Ryung eliminated by with losses to Scarlett and Huk. He probably doesn't like Canadians very much right now! :D
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hero fucked up the engagement however i'm not quite so sure he would've won with 20 broodlords spread out that well
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On December 01 2012 06:13 Shellshock1122 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2012 06:12 Fionn wrote:
Bogus dead.
Ryung dead.
The Terran hope not looking scary heading into tonight's semifinals. GomZvZ
2011 - GomTvT
2012 - GomZvZ
2013 - GomPvP?
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
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On December 01 2012 06:13 Adreme wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2012 06:11 FlyingTurtle wrote:On December 01 2012 06:09 Hypemeup wrote:On December 01 2012 06:08 FlyingTurtle wrote:On December 01 2012 06:04 Derrida wrote:
To be honest, I thought Hero played close to optimal for a protoss who did not resort to immortal-sentry. Kill the morphing in greater spire, pushing, constant prism harrass, two good vortex... Not sure how he lost. Any insights? Terrible engagements and weak army comp. That vortex on all the broods at Violet's 4th should have won Hero the game, but he threw the rest of his units in and pushed the archons out of the center. Plus, he didn't have enough AoE (not enough archons and storm) in the engagement at his forward expansion. To anyone who says storm sucks against Broodlords, watch Squirtle vs Mvp...if storms can kill 500-hp battlecruisers, they can kill 225-hp broodlords. Feedback was what killed MvPs BCs, storms were just the finishing touch. Lmfao even a feedback on a full energy BC leaves it with 250 HP (25 more than a broodlord). It was a combination of feedback,archon splash storm and then just finishing off the red health bc's.
So which of those things aren't present in the PvZ comp? Oh,right, none. As much as I like Hero, it's obvious that he misplaed that.
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On December 01 2012 06:14 Fusilero wrote:Chae is currently in the IM house smashing seed's trophy.
The bills won't pay themselves yo.
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On December 01 2012 06:14 Prof wrote:
Ryung eliminated by with losses to Scarlett and Huk. He probably doesn't like Canadians very much right now! :D
Thank goodness he isn't at WCG 
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On December 01 2012 06:11 TheBB wrote:The situation after 5x WB and 4x LB (minus Ryung vs Huk): Most likely winners: Leenock: 41.68% viOLet: 19.00% Symbol: 17.98% Polt: 15.00% Creator: 2.36% HerO: 0.93% DongRaeGu: 0.69% Life: 0.64% TaeJa: 0.58% Squirtle: 0.25% HyuN: 0.24% Bomber: 0.17% Sniper: 0.15% TheStC: 0.11% Ryung: 0.05% Scarlett: 0.05% details, data source, code+ Show Spoiler [Life expectancies] + Leenock: 10.67 rounds (top 2)
viOLet: 9.96 rounds (top 3)
Symbol: 9.90 rounds (top 3)
Polt: 9.67 rounds (top 3)
Creator: 7.43 rounds (top 8)
HerO: 7.19 rounds (top 8)
Sleep: 6.69 rounds (top 8)
TheStC: 6.61 rounds (top 8)
Squirtle: 5.86 rounds (top 12)
Life: 5.70 rounds (top 12)
DongRaeGu: 5.54 rounds (top 12)
HyuN: 5.42 rounds (top 16)
TaeJa: 5.41 rounds (top 16)
Bomber: 5.16 rounds (top 16)
Sniper: 4.98 rounds (top 16)
BBoongBBoong: 4.96 rounds (top 16)
YoDa: 4.74 rounds (top 16)
Scarlett: 4.73 rounds (top 16)
Crank: 4.69 rounds (top 16)
San: 4.62 rounds (top 16)
aLive: 4.45 rounds (top 24)
xigua: 4.39 rounds (top 24)
Ryung: 4.39 rounds (top 24)
Snute: 4.36 rounds (top 24)
HuK: 3.46 rounds (top 32)
Sea: 3.00 rounds (top 32)
Vortix: 3.00 rounds (top 32)
MC: 3.00 rounds (top 32)
sculp: 3.00 rounds (top 32)
Bogus: 3.00 rounds (top 32)
Seed: 3.00 rounds (top 32)
Stephano: 3.00 rounds (top 32)
puCK: 2.00 rounds (top 40)
ViBE: 2.00 rounds (top 40)
goswser: 2.00 rounds (top 40)
Naniwa: 2.00 rounds (top 40)
MMA: 2.00 rounds (top 40)
Shine: 2.00 rounds (top 40)
ToD: 2.00 rounds (top 40)
Heart: 2.00 rounds (top 40)
Nerchio: 1.00 rounds (top 56)
TubbyTheFat: 1.00 rounds (top 56)
Byun: 1.00 rounds (top 56)
CatZ: 1.00 rounds (top 56)
Caliber: 1.00 rounds (top 56)
HwangSin: 1.00 rounds (top 56)
GanZi: 1.00 rounds (top 56)
Golden: 1.00 rounds (top 56)
Genius: 1.00 rounds (top 56)
drewbie: 1.00 rounds (top 56)
ByuL: 1.00 rounds (top 56)
MaSsan: 1.00 rounds (top 56)
luvsic: 1.00 rounds (top 56)
LucifroN: 1.00 rounds (top 56)
Sasquatch: 1.00 rounds (top 56)
theognis: 1.00 rounds (top 56)
Shuttle: 0.00 rounds (top 72)
Glon: 0.00 rounds (top 72)
sLivko: 0.00 rounds (top 72)
Perfect: 0.00 rounds (top 72)
Apocalypse: 0.00 rounds (top 72)
Eifersuchtig: 0.00 rounds (top 72)
TriMaster: 0.00 rounds (top 72)
daisuki: 0.00 rounds (top 72)
MajOr: 0.00 rounds (top 72) Detailed placement probabilities
Top 72 Top 56 Top 40 Top 32 Top 24 Top 16 Top 12 Top 8 Top 6 Top 4 Top 3 Top 2 Win
HyuN: 30.43% 35.54% 13.24% 11.43% 4.60% 2.38% 1.20% 0.94% 0.24%
BBoongBBoong: 44.05% 32.67% 12.16% 7.52% 2.45% 0.77% 0.28% 0.10% 0.01%
Sea: 100.00%
Nerchio: 100.00%
puCK: 100.00%
Creator: 39.82% 22.57% 15.09% 9.47% 5.53% 5.16% 2.36%
Shuttle: 100.00%
DongRaeGu: 37.33% 24.33% 12.77% 12.61% 5.51% 3.31% 1.85% 1.61% 0.69%
TubbyTheFat: 100.00%
Byun: 100.00%
Squirtle: 24.89% 24.22% 18.27% 17.13% 8.40% 3.78% 1.77% 1.28% 0.25%
CatZ: 100.00%
YoDa: 51.65% 31.93% 10.82% 2.90% 1.78% 0.61% 0.19% 0.10% 0.02%
Sniper: 56.04% 16.95% 14.08% 5.15% 4.06% 1.93% 0.97% 0.68% 0.15%
Glon: 100.00%
TheStC: 60.32% 26.32% 8.03% 3.13% 1.39% 0.70% 0.11%
ViBE: 100.00%
Vortix: 100.00%
Caliber: 100.00%
Bomber: 38.82% 30.69% 18.47% 5.75% 3.09% 1.61% 0.84% 0.55% 0.17%
sLivko: 100.00%
Life: 24.76% 29.52% 24.26% 8.40% 5.43% 3.33% 1.91% 1.75% 0.64%
Perfect: 100.00%
HwangSin: 100.00%
HuK: 69.16% 19.13% 8.87% 2.20% 0.43% 0.17% 0.04% 0.01% 0.00%
Leenock: 13.49% 9.73% 14.89% 20.22% 41.68%
Apocalypse: 100.00%
GanZi: 100.00%
goswser: 100.00%
Ryung: 30.84% 29.22% 23.61% 9.40% 3.03% 2.25% 0.94% 0.37% 0.28% 0.05%
Eifersuchtig: 100.00%
Golden: 100.00%
Genius: 100.00%
Scarlett: 62.67% 18.90% 8.25% 6.27% 2.15% 1.05% 0.40% 0.25% 0.05%
drewbie: 100.00%
Naniwa: 100.00%
TriMaster: 100.00%
MC: 100.00%
daisuki: 100.00%
MMA: 100.00%
Shine: 100.00%
sculp: 100.00%
Symbol: 27.63% 12.10% 20.61% 21.67% 17.98%
ByuL: 100.00%
Bogus: 100.00%
MaSsan: 100.00%
luvsic: 100.00%
LucifroN: 100.00%
viOLet: 26.24% 11.89% 20.71% 22.16% 19.00%
ToD: 100.00%
Seed: 100.00%
Sasquatch: 100.00%
Heart: 100.00%
MajOr: 100.00%
Stephano: 100.00%
theognis: 100.00%
HerO: 46.34% 19.53% 17.07% 8.41% 4.39% 3.33% 0.93%
TaeJa: 43.96% 18.65% 17.16% 6.65% 6.27% 3.30% 1.86% 1.56% 0.58%
Polt: 31.19% 17.60% 19.21% 17.00% 15.00%
Crank: 55.95% 28.08% 9.27% 4.88% 1.36% 0.32% 0.11% 0.03% 0.00%
xigua: 75.11% 15.03% 6.29% 2.72% 0.66% 0.16% 0.03% 0.01%
Sleep: 54.01% 30.07% 10.85% 3.34% 1.19% 0.49% 0.05%
aLive: 69.57% 21.23% 5.42% 2.78% 0.70% 0.23% 0.05% 0.02% 0.00%
Snute: 75.24% 16.26% 6.62% 1.28% 0.42% 0.11% 0.04% 0.02% 0.00%
San: 61.18% 23.53% 10.83% 2.57% 1.11% 0.47% 0.19% 0.10% 0.02%
Most likely to be eliminated by...
HyuN: aLive (30.43%) DongRaeGu (24.30%) TheStC (13.24%)
BBoongBBoong: Crank (44.05%) Squirtle (27.47%) Sleep (12.16%)
Sea: Life (100.00%)
Nerchio: Naniwa (100.00%)
puCK: BBoongBBoo (100.00%)
Creator: Life (21.46%) Bomber (12.02%) viOLet (10.09%)
Shuttle: Nerchio (100.00%)
DongRaeGu: Scarlett (37.33%) HyuN (19.25%) TheStC (12.77%)
TubbyTheFat: Shine (100.00%)
Byun: MMA (100.00%)
Squirtle: xigua (24.89%) Sleep (18.27%) BBoongBBoo (14.53%)
CatZ: sculp (100.00%)
YoDa: Ryung (39.93%) TaeJa (18.42%) Sniper (13.51%)
Sniper: TaeJa (56.04%) HerO (14.08%) YoDa ( 7.84%)
Glon: ViBE (100.00%)
TheStC: DongRaeGu (25.57%) HyuN (20.78%) Creator (16.54%)
ViBE: Vortix (100.00%)
Vortix: DongRaeGu (100.00%)
Caliber: ToD (100.00%)
Bomber: San (38.82%) Life (26.16%) Creator (18.47%)
sLivko: Vortix (100.00%)
Life: Snute (24.76%) Creator (24.26%) Bomber (20.00%)
Perfect: HwangSin (100.00%)
HwangSin: Heart (100.00%)
HuK: Ryung (69.16%) YoDa (19.13%) TaeJa ( 5.09%)
Leenock: viOLet (12.55%) Symbol (11.70%) Polt ( 7.49%)
Apocalypse: GanZi (100.00%)
GanZi: Stephano (100.00%)
goswser: HuK (100.00%)
Ryung: HuK (30.84%) YoDa (29.22%) TaeJa (13.88%)
Eifersuchtig: Golden (100.00%)
Golden: BBoongBBoo (100.00%)
Genius: Sea (100.00%)
Scarlett: DongRaeGu (62.67%) HyuN (14.78%) TheStC ( 8.25%)
drewbie: puCK (100.00%)
Naniwa: Sea (100.00%)
TriMaster: drewbie (100.00%)
MC: Sniper (100.00%)
daisuki: MMA (100.00%)
MMA: Squirtle (100.00%)
Shine: sculp (100.00%)
sculp: Bomber (100.00%)
Symbol: Leenock (20.54%) Creator (14.12%) Polt (11.19%)
ByuL: Squirtle (100.00%)
Bogus: Squirtle (100.00%)
MaSsan: Sniper (100.00%)
luvsic: ViBE (100.00%)
LucifroN: Vortix (100.00%)
viOLet: Leenock (20.96%) Creator (13.90%) Polt (11.07%)
ToD: Sniper (100.00%)
Seed: BBoongBBoo (100.00%)
Sasquatch: HuK (100.00%)
Heart: Stephano (100.00%)
MajOr: Sasquatch (100.00%)
Stephano: HyuN (100.00%)
theognis: goswser (100.00%)
HerO: TaeJa (20.23%) Sniper (12.94%) Polt (10.89%)
TaeJa: Sniper (43.96%) HerO (17.16%) Ryung ( 8.62%)
Polt: Leenock (13.31%) HerO (12.72%) viOLet (12.67%)
Crank: BBoongBBoo (55.95%) Squirtle (23.42%) Sleep ( 9.27%)
xigua: Squirtle (75.11%) BBoongBBoo ( 8.76%) Sleep ( 6.29%)
Sleep: Squirtle (32.62%) HerO (16.52%) BBoongBBoo (11.13%)
aLive: HyuN (69.57%) DongRaeGu (14.03%) Scarlett ( 7.19%)
Snute: Life (75.24%) Bomber (10.49%) Creator ( 6.62%)
San: Bomber (61.18%) Life (19.55%) Creator (10.83%)
Most likely to be sent to the losers' bracket by...
HyuN: Creator (100.00%)
BBoongBBoong: HyuN (100.00%)
Sea: BBoongBBoo (100.00%)
Nerchio: puCK (100.00%)
puCK: Creator (100.00%)
Creator: Polt (100.00%)
Shuttle: Creator (100.00%)
DongRaeGu: YoDa (100.00%)
TubbyTheFat: DongRaeGu (100.00%)
Byun: DongRaeGu (100.00%)
Squirtle: YoDa (100.00%)
CatZ: Squirtle (100.00%)
YoDa: Polt (100.00%)
Sniper: TheStC (100.00%)
Glon: Sniper (100.00%)
TheStC: Leenock (100.00%)
ViBE: TheStC (100.00%)
Vortix: Caliber (100.00%)
Caliber: Bomber (100.00%)
Bomber: TheStC (100.00%)
sLivko: Bomber (100.00%)
Life: Leenock (100.00%)
Perfect: Life (100.00%)
HwangSin: HuK (100.00%)
HuK: Life (100.00%)
Leenock: Polt (38.46%) viOLet (16.94%) Symbol (16.40%)
Apocalypse: Leenock (100.00%)
GanZi: goswser (100.00%)
goswser: Leenock (100.00%)
Ryung: Scarlett (100.00%)
Eifersuchtig: Ryung (100.00%)
Golden: Genius (100.00%)
Genius: Ryung (100.00%)
Scarlett: Sleep (100.00%)
drewbie: Scarlett (100.00%)
Naniwa: Scarlett (100.00%)
TriMaster: Naniwa (100.00%)
MC: Symbol (100.00%)
daisuki: MC (100.00%)
MMA: Shine (100.00%)
Shine: MC (100.00%)
sculp: Symbol (100.00%)
Symbol: viOLet (51.74%) Leenock (24.83%) Polt (11.29%)
ByuL: Symbol (100.00%)
Bogus: viOLet (100.00%)
MaSsan: Bogus (100.00%)
luvsic: Bogus (100.00%)
LucifroN: viOLet (100.00%)
viOLet: Symbol (50.35%) Leenock (25.64%) Polt (11.32%)
ToD: viOLet (100.00%)
Seed: HerO (100.00%)
Sasquatch: Seed (100.00%)
Heart: Seed (100.00%)
MajOr: Heart (100.00%)
Stephano: HerO (100.00%)
theognis: Stephano (100.00%)
HerO: viOLet (100.00%)
TaeJa: Creator (100.00%)
Polt: Leenock (65.50%) viOLet (12.40%) Symbol (11.83%)
Crank: TheStC (100.00%)
xigua: Leenock (100.00%)
Sleep: Symbol (100.00%)
aLive: Symbol (100.00%)
Snute: viOLet (100.00%)
San: HerO (100.00%)
Cmon So close to vindication;
+ Show Spoiler +On November 30 2012 07:34 Sabu113 wrote:Poll: Zerg wins top 3 IPL 5?Yes (36) 51% No (17) 24% Popsicle (17) 24% 70 total votes Your vote: Zerg wins top 3 IPL 5? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): Popsicle
Though seriously kinda hoping Polt and Taeja can do something special. Taeja hwaiting!
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On December 01 2012 06:12 Zheryn wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2012 06:04 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On December 01 2012 06:01 mambar wrote:On December 01 2012 06:00 Serinox wrote:Poor HerO  better play but was not enough ok... Denies 5th base forever while getting his own. Snipes greater spire. Kills tons of drones with storm drops etc. He really couldn't have played any better.... *And keeps making t1 units. It'd be fun to see a zerg be 2 bases ahead of a protoss and only make t1 units then complain that he lost.
So archons, motherships, Storm, Collosi are all t1 now? Good to know!
You do realize EVERY army has to have some t1 units to add bulk. You can't actually max on just t3 units? Gateway units are kind of an essential part of army comp...
Not sure if you're a troll....
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On December 01 2012 06:14 mataxp wrote:
woha huk beating ryung, didnt expect that...
Well, Ryung IS known for his terrible TvP...
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On December 01 2012 06:07 Undead1993 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2012 06:04 Derrida wrote:
To be honest, I thought Hero played close to optimal for a protoss who did not resort to immortal-sentry. Kill the morphing in greater spire, pushing, constant prism harrass, two good vortex... Not sure how he lost. Any insights? The last two vortexes were awful, did you even watch the game. this wasl ike the worst engagement ever sorry i love hero but this was simply a thrown game with this engagement.
1st Vortex: Mothership was fungaled so he had to use it.
2nd Vortex: Was done because it was about to die.
But just think for a moment if it's logical that one ability is mandatory for one race to be able to win. It's either this or nothing. Doesn't make any sense to me.
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On December 01 2012 06:15 FlyingTurtle wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2012 06:13 Adreme wrote:On December 01 2012 06:11 FlyingTurtle wrote:On December 01 2012 06:09 Hypemeup wrote:On December 01 2012 06:08 FlyingTurtle wrote:On December 01 2012 06:04 Derrida wrote:
To be honest, I thought Hero played close to optimal for a protoss who did not resort to immortal-sentry. Kill the morphing in greater spire, pushing, constant prism harrass, two good vortex... Not sure how he lost. Any insights? Terrible engagements and weak army comp. That vortex on all the broods at Violet's 4th should have won Hero the game, but he threw the rest of his units in and pushed the archons out of the center. Plus, he didn't have enough AoE (not enough archons and storm) in the engagement at his forward expansion. To anyone who says storm sucks against Broodlords, watch Squirtle vs Mvp...if storms can kill 500-hp battlecruisers, they can kill 225-hp broodlords. Feedback was what killed MvPs BCs, storms were just the finishing touch. Lmfao even a feedback on a full energy BC leaves it with 250 HP (25 more than a broodlord). It was a combination of feedback,archon splash storm and then just finishing off the red health bc's. So which of those things aren't present in the PvZ comp? Oh,right, none. As much as I like Hero, it's obvious that he misplaed that.
You neglect the high # of voidrays that squirtle had, and voidrays are insane vs BCs but PvZ fungal makes them useless.
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On December 01 2012 06:14 Fusilero wrote:Chae is currently in the IM house smashing seed's trophy.
With the hammer he crafted out of the leftovers of jjakjis smashed trophy?
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EPT![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/7/7f/Twitch_ico.png)
Main Stream: 
TaeJa vs. 
Sniper
San
