EPTNumericable M-House Cup - Page 23
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Stanlot
United States5742 Posts
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eronica
175 Posts
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eronica
175 Posts
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Boucot
France15997 Posts
http://www.millenium.org/home/milleniumtv/tv/?chaine=millenium_tv | ||
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xongnox
540 Posts
On December 16 2012 07:18 goswser wrote: The map pool is terrible for zerg, I felt aggression and low tech was the only way I could win. I couldn't use my cloud kingdom build again, and when you have Antiga Ohana Entombed Shakuras in the map pool and you have to play on two of them, you can't play straight up games or you will just lose. Sorry guys  wat ? Zerg map pool whine is hilarious atm, while tournament every map pool heavily favor zergs... Ohana and Entombed are Z-favored, Antiga is by statistics balanced (and even Z favored in last GSL ^^ ). Aggressive and low-tech play seems more like a permanent feature of your play in TvZ (from last series i saw since some weeks ) than map-related. Cloud is Z-favored and you played very aggressive/low tech (last set) while you had all your time to tech up, at least to infestors (infested terran way better vs mech than roach ).... So, maybe MKP just played better ? and figured out your style ? (even Life kinda stop his aggressive play in ZvT... it's not very good when T know it's coming) nothing to be ashamed. | ||
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goswser
United States3548 Posts
On December 16 2012 08:26 xongnox wrote: wat ? Zerg map pool whine is hilarious atm, while tournament every map pool heavily favor zergs... Ohana and Entombed are Z-favored, Antiga is by statistics balanced (and even Z favored in last GSL ^^ ). Aggressive and low-tech play seems more like a permanent feature of your play in TvZ (from last series i saw since some weeks ) than map-related. Cloud is Z-favored and you played very aggressive/low tech (last set) while you had all your time to tech up, at least to infestors (infested terran way better vs mech than roach ).... So, maybe MKP just played better ? and figured out your style ? (even Life kinda stop his aggressive play in ZvT... it's not very good when T know it's coming) nothing to be ashamed. You have no clue what you're talking about in regards to maps. | ||
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Canucklehead
Canada5074 Posts
On December 16 2012 08:30 goswser wrote: You have no clue what you're talking about in regards to maps. No, he's right. It's kind of a joke for any zerg to whine about maps these days. The only thing I hate is that TL people like kennigit and rich whine and cry about zerg all day on twitter whenever hero loses to a zerg, but no one is allowed to do the same here, when the TL people believe in the imbalance themselves. I know why TL does it because TL doesn't want every thread to be balance whine, but I'm a believer in the truth, so it should be fine to talk about. Censoring the truth, doesn't mean it's still not the truth.  | ||
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goswser
United States3548 Posts
On December 16 2012 08:33 Canucklehead wrote: No, he's right. It's kind of a joke for any zerg to whine about maps these days. Saying Antiga isn't terran favored in ZvT is laughable. Entombed is also terran favored, and Shakuras doesn't even belong in a tournament map pool anymore. Ohana is at best even in ZvT. | ||
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Canucklehead
Canada5074 Posts
On December 16 2012 08:35 goswser wrote: Saying Antiga isn't terran favored in ZvT is laughable. Entombed is also terran favored, and Shakuras doesn't even belong in a tournament map pool anymore. Ohana is at best even in ZvT. We'll have to disagree because I don't think there's such thing as a terran favoured map in TvZ at this moment in time with the way the meta game currently is at. | ||
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xongnox
540 Posts
On December 16 2012 08:35 goswser wrote: Saying Antiga isn't terran favored in ZvT is laughable. Entombed is also terran favored, and Shakuras doesn't even belong in a tournament map pool anymore. Ohana is at best even in ZvT. Maybe check facts : -Antiga 2012 : http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/details.php?section=sc2-korean&type=maps&id=500&part=games&matchup=TvZ&league=any&from_year=2012&from_month=1&from_day=1&to_year=2012&to_month=12&to_day=14&action=Update TvZ : 49.7% -Emtombed 2012: http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/details.php?section=sc2-korean&type=maps&id=527&part=games&matchup=TvZ&league=any&from_year=2012&from_month=1&from_day=1&to_year=2012&to_month=12&to_day=14&action=Update TvZ : 47.9% So, in statistics, that's the two most balanced maps in TvZ. (even if they slightly favors Z ^^ ) I know by zerg's today's standard, when a map isn't 65+% win for Z it's "terribly terran favored", but just check statistics sometimes, maybe... | ||
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decado90
United States480 Posts
On December 16 2012 08:48 xongnox wrote: Maybe check facts : -Antiga 2012 : http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/details.php?section=sc2-korean&type=maps&id=500&part=games&matchup=TvZ&league=any&from_year=2012&from_month=1&from_day=1&to_year=2012&to_month=12&to_day=14&action=Update TvZ : 49.7% -Emtombed 2012: http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/details.php?section=sc2-korean&type=maps&id=527&part=games&matchup=TvZ&league=any&from_year=2012&from_month=1&from_day=1&to_year=2012&to_month=12&to_day=14&action=Update TvZ : 47.9% So, in statistics, that's the two most balanced maps in TvZ. (even if they slightly favors Z ^^ ) I know by zerg's today's standard, when a map isn't 65+% win for Z it's "terribly terran favored", but just check statistics sometimes, maybe... Yea, it always annoyed me when every player and caster say Antiga is a great Terran map. 50% = great map for Terran today lol. | ||
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Canucklehead
Canada5074 Posts
On December 16 2012 08:48 xongnox wrote: Maybe check facts : -Antiga 2012 : http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/details.php?section=sc2-korean&type=maps&id=500&part=games&matchup=TvZ&league=any&from_year=2012&from_month=1&from_day=1&to_year=2012&to_month=12&to_day=14&action=Update TvZ : 49.7% -Emtombed 2012: http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/details.php?section=sc2-korean&type=maps&id=527&part=games&matchup=TvZ&league=any&from_year=2012&from_month=1&from_day=1&to_year=2012&to_month=12&to_day=14&action=Update TvZ : 47.9% So, in statistics, that's the two most balanced maps in TvZ. (even if they slightly favors Z ^^ ) I know by zerg's today's standard, when a map isn't 65+% win for Z it's "terribly terran favored", but just check statistics sometimes, maybe... Nice, glad you posted the stats. It's a myth that zerg and casters spread that antiga was terran favoured. He can't even argue about sample size either as those stats cover the entire year of 2012 so far with 776 games on antiga and 452 games on entombed. | ||
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goswser
United States3548 Posts
On December 16 2012 08:48 xongnox wrote: Maybe check facts : -Antiga 2012 : http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/details.php?section=sc2-korean&type=maps&id=500&part=games&matchup=TvZ&league=any&from_year=2012&from_month=1&from_day=1&to_year=2012&to_month=12&to_day=14&action=Update TvZ : 49.7% -Emtombed 2012: http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/details.php?section=sc2-korean&type=maps&id=527&part=games&matchup=TvZ&league=any&from_year=2012&from_month=1&from_day=1&to_year=2012&to_month=12&to_day=14&action=Update TvZ : 47.9% So, in statistics, that's the two most balanced maps in TvZ. (even if they slightly favors Z ^^ ) I know by zerg's today's standard, when a map isn't 65+% win for Z it's "terribly terran favored", but just check statistics sometimes, maybe... you can't take stats from all of 2012 to define the current state of balance on maps..... | ||
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Zoku
307 Posts
On December 16 2012 08:35 goswser wrote: Saying Antiga isn't terran favored in ZvT is laughable. Entombed is also terran favored, and Shakuras doesn't even belong in a tournament map pool anymore. Ohana is at best even in ZvT. There aren't really any terran favoured maps. It's just, when you look at all the ridiculously zerg favoured maps, antiga and entombed seem terran-favoured in comparison. But you know, you go ahead and blame map imbalance. Stay classy goswser. | ||
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Zoku
307 Posts
On December 16 2012 08:56 goswser wrote: you can't take stats from all of 2012 to define the current state of balance on maps..... TvZ winrates for Antiga: May - 53% June - 52% July - 45% August - 53% September - 37% October - 33% November - 37% December - 57% (only 7 games have been played) You're right, antiga is extremely terran favoured. | ||
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xongnox
540 Posts
On December 16 2012 08:53 Canucklehead wrote: Nice, glad you posted the stats. It's a myth that zerg and casters spread that antiga was terran favoured. He can't even argue about sample size either as those stats cover the entire year of 2012 so far with 776 games on antiga and 452 games on entombed. The most fun thing is, if we take only post-patch TvZ, it's hilarious : http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/details.php?section=sc2-korean&type=maps&id=500&part=games&matchup=TvZ&league=any&from_year=2012&from_month=5&from_day=10&to_year=2012&to_month=12&to_day=14&action=Update Antiga post-patch TvZ : 47.2% Btw, Shakuras is at 50% in 2012 and Shakuras post-patch is at 42.1% for T. (with a not-so-big sample ) So, map pool whine from zergs is kinda hilarious. It seems like they just want all map with 65%+ win guaranteed... | ||
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goswser
United States3548 Posts
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Canucklehead
Canada5074 Posts
On December 16 2012 09:06 goswser wrote: I don't know why I'm arguing balance with a bunch of bronze players. Lol, proven wrong with facts and stats, so goes straight to the insults as a fallback. Stay classy man! The myth that antiga is terran favoured is perpetuated by theory crafting about the difficulty of the 4th base in the middle for zerg. Well guess what, theory crafting does not equal actual results. Results prove theory crafting wrong. | ||
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xongnox
540 Posts
On December 16 2012 08:56 goswser wrote: you can't take stats from all of 2012 to define the current state of balance on maps..... post-patch is more Z-favored than all of 2012, and lasts few months even more Z favored. Really nothing more to add... This was some good games from you and MKP just maybe played better than you this time... Keep training hard and have fun in France =) Next time maybe you will beat him | ||
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Thinasy
2856 Posts
On December 16 2012 09:07 Canucklehead wrote: Lol, proven wrong with facts and stats, so goes straight to the insults as a fallback. Stay classy man! Pro attitude for sure | ||
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