On February 01 2012 11:27 Olinimm wrote: [quote] Umm no. According to TLPD he beat them once. And he beat hero and puzzle in a best of one.
I'm sorry I didn't know TLPD was the end-all be all for databases. I watched HerO and HuK both lose to him in MLG and on IPL very convincingly. If you go just by TLPD...DRG's ZvT is his worst matchup, did you know that?
Link me to something that says Inori even played huk or hero at MLG.
I said MLG. please read what I actually say. Thanks.
Oops..you get the gist. Inori PvP > HuK and HerO PvP.
Since when are HuK and HerO considered the top PvPers who we are going to compare another player to in order to determine "the best." Inori has a weird style of PvP. MC, Oz, and Puzzle all have much better PvP than anybody else. InCa is gimmicky, Inori has a weird almost unexplored style (when he first came out at IPL I don't think that MC has much experience playing against it), HerO and HuK actually aren't as good as other players, and frankly the only people left are players like Oz, Puzzle, JYP, MC, and the like. PartinG is also really, good as I see a lot of people are completely failing to mention him.
On February 01 2012 11:35 dragonborn wrote:
On February 01 2012 11:32 Olinimm wrote:
On February 01 2012 11:32 dragonborn wrote:
On February 01 2012 11:30 Olinimm wrote:
On February 01 2012 11:29 dragonborn wrote:
On February 01 2012 11:22 Olinimm wrote: [quote] Even if you disregard the fact MC has an insane winrate, Inori is still immensely overrated in PvP. He beat MC once, every other time MC owned him. And his stats are fucking awful.
Just saying,STATS ISNT EVERYTHING.
HuK have 45% PvP in Korea but he is 5-4 ahead against MC.
MC's PvP isnt in top 3,even Puzzle better than him.
How? You have no actual argument for that. Puzzle just lost to parting, he hasn't ever beaten MC, he has worse winrates, how is he better than MC?
I'm sorry I didn't know TLPD was the end-all be all for databases. I watched HerO and HuK both lose to him(Inori) in MLG and on IPL very convincingly. If you go just by TLPD...DRG's ZvT is his worst matchup, did you know that?
TLPD ISNT EVERYTHING.
PROVIDE AN ARGUMENT.
i just saw your posts in MC's fan club..
i understand you,you are a fanboy.
its hard to accept but MC sucks at PvP.
That's a terrible argument. MC is a force to be reckoned with. Who has he lost to in PvP? He lost to HuK, but they both know each other's styles so well that that doesn't really represent much of their "skill." If you're just going to troll, get off TL and stop posting retarded comments like "MC sucks at PvP."
He lose to MaNa and out of ESWC.
he lose to HuK and get 2nd place at MLG.
he lose to Inori and out of IPL.
he lose to NaNiWa and out of HomeStoryCup 3.
im not trolling.
Do you notice what is similar about every single one of those events? They weren't in Korea. He's flying around the world and loses to people who have been going on complete tears.
MaNa didn't lose a single game to Socke or Grubby either, he was playing the best PvP of his life.
As I said, HuK and MC know each other's play styles through and through, that means that it's less of a PvP because there's a completely new element that is racing through both of their minds.
Inori's play style is really odd, and MC had probably never pracitced against that style before IPL. I don't think that any of the top tier players felt comfortable against that style. Plus, Inori could have watched all of MC's VODs, where would MC find VODs of Inori exactly??
NaNiwa has fantastic PvP, if losing to NaNiwa makes you bad at a match-up (especially at a foreigner tournament), are Mvp and NesTea both bad vP?
So MC loses to jetlag in a match-up that is the most micro-intensive. That's cool. He's 25-8 in PvP in Korea. When MC plays his best, nobody beats him in PvP. Stop posting.
This argument is relevant to IPL TAC2 EG vs oGs how?
Somebody brought up who has the best PvP, check back a few pages. I wouldn't get involved but if anybody is going to say that MC has bad PvP or that InCa has "the best" PvP, it's time to set the facts straight.
On February 01 2012 11:29 Whatson wrote: [quote] I'm sorry I didn't know TLPD was the end-all be all for databases. I watched HerO and HuK both lose to him in MLG and on IPL very convincingly. If you go just by TLPD...DRG's ZvT is his worst matchup, did you know that?
Link me to something that says Inori even played huk or hero at MLG.
I said MLG. please read what I actually say. Thanks.
Oops..you get the gist. Inori PvP > HuK and HerO PvP.
Since when are HuK and HerO considered the top PvPers who we are going to compare another player to in order to determine "the best." Inori has a weird style of PvP. MC, Oz, and Puzzle all have much better PvP than anybody else. InCa is gimmicky, Inori has a weird almost unexplored style (when he first came out at IPL I don't think that MC has much experience playing against it), HerO and HuK actually aren't as good as other players, and frankly the only people left are players like Oz, Puzzle, JYP, MC, and the like. PartinG is also really, good as I see a lot of people are completely failing to mention him.
On February 01 2012 11:35 dragonborn wrote:
On February 01 2012 11:32 Olinimm wrote:
On February 01 2012 11:32 dragonborn wrote:
On February 01 2012 11:30 Olinimm wrote:
On February 01 2012 11:29 dragonborn wrote: [quote] Just saying,STATS ISNT EVERYTHING.
HuK have 45% PvP in Korea but he is 5-4 ahead against MC.
MC's PvP isnt in top 3,even Puzzle better than him.
How? You have no actual argument for that. Puzzle just lost to parting, he hasn't ever beaten MC, he has worse winrates, how is he better than MC?
I'm sorry I didn't know TLPD was the end-all be all for databases. I watched HerO and HuK both lose to him(Inori) in MLG and on IPL very convincingly. If you go just by TLPD...DRG's ZvT is his worst matchup, did you know that?
TLPD ISNT EVERYTHING.
PROVIDE AN ARGUMENT.
i just saw your posts in MC's fan club..
i understand you,you are a fanboy.
its hard to accept but MC sucks at PvP.
That's a terrible argument. MC is a force to be reckoned with. Who has he lost to in PvP? He lost to HuK, but they both know each other's styles so well that that doesn't really represent much of their "skill." If you're just going to troll, get off TL and stop posting retarded comments like "MC sucks at PvP."
He lose to MaNa and out of ESWC.
he lose to HuK and get 2nd place at MLG.
he lose to Inori and out of IPL.
he lose to NaNiWa and out of HomeStoryCup 3.
im not trolling.
Do you notice what is similar about every single one of those events? They weren't in Korea. He's flying around the world and loses to people who have been going on complete tears.
MaNa didn't lose a single game to Socke or Grubby either, he was playing the best PvP of his life.
As I said, HuK and MC know each other's play styles through and through, that means that it's less of a PvP because there's a completely new element that is racing through both of their minds.
Inori's play style is really odd, and MC had probably never pracitced against that style before IPL. I don't think that any of the top tier players felt comfortable against that style. Plus, Inori could have watched all of MC's VODs, where would MC find VODs of Inori exactly??
NaNiwa has fantastic PvP, if losing to NaNiwa makes you bad at a match-up (especially at a foreigner tournament), are Mvp and NesTea both bad vP?
So MC loses to jetlag in a match-up that is the most micro-intensive. That's cool. He's 25-8 in PvP in Korea. When MC plays his best, nobody beats him in PvP. Stop posting.
This argument is relevant to IPL TAC2 EG vs oGs how?
Somebody brought up who has the best PvP, check back a few pages. I wouldn't get involved but if anybody is going to say that MC has bad PvP or that InCa has "the best" PvP, it's time to set the facts straight.
Too many uninformed people in the world. Too difficult to educate them all.
On February 01 2012 12:02 McFeser wrote: Can someone explain to me how Fin won that fight? He was going up the ramp and JYP had a good concave.
JYP was trying to stall for +1 / +1, charge and high templars. During this he wasted too much sentry energy with some really poor forcefields that then required more forcefields than necessary to do the same job.
I don't know if when he ran in with zealot charge he actually had +1 +1 finished but irregardless he popped two guardian shields, neither of which were protecting the zealots and then backed up after losing the zealots. By the time archons and +1 +1 were done he'd wasted all his sentry energy and lost a fair few zealots for nothing.
On February 01 2012 12:02 McFeser wrote: Can someone explain to me how Fin won that fight? He was going up the ramp and JYP had a good concave.
JYP had bad positioning. He had a great concave of zealots in hold position. By the time his archons completed, his zealots were mostly half-dead. His ffs were not the best and he lost a full energy sentry due to bad positioning. The stalkers were behind the zealots but couldnt damage the force field'd terran because the nexus was blocking it(the stalkers). By the time the ff wore off, the zealots melted because they were already hurt. THEN the archons came into play.
tldr: the tankers (zealot / archon) took too much damage when they didnt do enough damage.
Yeah pretty much. The advantage of that small natural choke in holding early game pushes is flipped around when the supplies start to build, AoE is pretty much obligatory to hold in that kind of position.
On February 01 2012 11:27 Olinimm wrote: [quote] Umm no. According to TLPD he beat them once. And he beat hero and puzzle in a best of one.
I'm sorry I didn't know TLPD was the end-all be all for databases. I watched HerO and HuK both lose to him in MLG and on IPL very convincingly. If you go just by TLPD...DRG's ZvT is his worst matchup, did you know that?
Link me to something that says Inori even played huk or hero at MLG.
I said MLG. please read what I actually say. Thanks.
Oops..you get the gist. Inori PvP > HuK and HerO PvP.
Since when are HuK and HerO considered the top PvPers who we are going to compare another player to in order to determine "the best." Inori has a weird style of PvP. MC, Oz, and Puzzle all have much better PvP than anybody else. InCa is gimmicky, Inori has a weird almost unexplored style (when he first came out at IPL I don't think that MC has much experience playing against it), HerO and HuK actually aren't as good as other players, and frankly the only people left are players like Oz, Puzzle, JYP, MC, and the like. PartinG is also really, good as I see a lot of people are completely failing to mention him.
On February 01 2012 11:35 dragonborn wrote:
On February 01 2012 11:32 Olinimm wrote:
On February 01 2012 11:32 dragonborn wrote:
On February 01 2012 11:30 Olinimm wrote:
On February 01 2012 11:29 dragonborn wrote:
On February 01 2012 11:22 Olinimm wrote: [quote] Even if you disregard the fact MC has an insane winrate, Inori is still immensely overrated in PvP. He beat MC once, every other time MC owned him. And his stats are fucking awful.
Just saying,STATS ISNT EVERYTHING.
HuK have 45% PvP in Korea but he is 5-4 ahead against MC.
MC's PvP isnt in top 3,even Puzzle better than him.
How? You have no actual argument for that. Puzzle just lost to parting, he hasn't ever beaten MC, he has worse winrates, how is he better than MC?
I'm sorry I didn't know TLPD was the end-all be all for databases. I watched HerO and HuK both lose to him(Inori) in MLG and on IPL very convincingly. If you go just by TLPD...DRG's ZvT is his worst matchup, did you know that?
TLPD ISNT EVERYTHING.
PROVIDE AN ARGUMENT.
i just saw your posts in MC's fan club..
i understand you,you are a fanboy.
its hard to accept but MC sucks at PvP.
That's a terrible argument. MC is a force to be reckoned with. Who has he lost to in PvP? He lost to HuK, but they both know each other's styles so well that that doesn't really represent much of their "skill." If you're just going to troll, get off TL and stop posting retarded comments like "MC sucks at PvP."
He lose to MaNa and out of ESWC.
he lose to HuK and get 2nd place at MLG.
he lose to Inori and out of IPL.
he lose to NaNiWa and out of HomeStoryCup 3.
im not trolling.
Do you notice what is similar about every single one of those events? They weren't in Korea. He's flying around the world and loses to people who have been going on complete tears.
MaNa didn't lose a single game to Socke or Grubby either, he was playing the best PvP of his life.
As I said, HuK and MC know each other's play styles through and through, that means that it's less of a PvP because there's a completely new element that is racing through both of their minds.
Inori's play style is really odd, and MC had probably never pracitced against that style before IPL. I don't think that any of the top tier players felt comfortable against that style. Plus, Inori could have watched all of MC's VODs, where would MC find VODs of Inori exactly??
NaNiwa has fantastic PvP, if losing to NaNiwa makes you bad at a match-up (especially at a foreigner tournament), are Mvp and NesTea both bad vP?
So MC loses to jetlag in a match-up that is the most micro-intensive. That's cool. He's 25-8 in PvP in Korea. When MC plays his best, nobody beats him in PvP. Stop posting.
when korean loses online= lag
when korean loses offline = jetlag
TLPD isnt everything,im still saying PvP is MC's weakness.
Well then care to explain why his PvP winrate is still so fucking high??? Remember MC played more competitive game than almost any SC2 Koreans.
On February 01 2012 11:29 Whatson wrote: [quote] I'm sorry I didn't know TLPD was the end-all be all for databases. I watched HerO and HuK both lose to him in MLG and on IPL very convincingly. If you go just by TLPD...DRG's ZvT is his worst matchup, did you know that?
Link me to something that says Inori even played huk or hero at MLG.
I said MLG. please read what I actually say. Thanks.
Oops..you get the gist. Inori PvP > HuK and HerO PvP.
Since when are HuK and HerO considered the top PvPers who we are going to compare another player to in order to determine "the best." Inori has a weird style of PvP. MC, Oz, and Puzzle all have much better PvP than anybody else. InCa is gimmicky, Inori has a weird almost unexplored style (when he first came out at IPL I don't think that MC has much experience playing against it), HerO and HuK actually aren't as good as other players, and frankly the only people left are players like Oz, Puzzle, JYP, MC, and the like. PartinG is also really, good as I see a lot of people are completely failing to mention him.
On February 01 2012 11:35 dragonborn wrote:
On February 01 2012 11:32 Olinimm wrote:
On February 01 2012 11:32 dragonborn wrote:
On February 01 2012 11:30 Olinimm wrote:
On February 01 2012 11:29 dragonborn wrote: [quote] Just saying,STATS ISNT EVERYTHING.
HuK have 45% PvP in Korea but he is 5-4 ahead against MC.
MC's PvP isnt in top 3,even Puzzle better than him.
How? You have no actual argument for that. Puzzle just lost to parting, he hasn't ever beaten MC, he has worse winrates, how is he better than MC?
I'm sorry I didn't know TLPD was the end-all be all for databases. I watched HerO and HuK both lose to him(Inori) in MLG and on IPL very convincingly. If you go just by TLPD...DRG's ZvT is his worst matchup, did you know that?
TLPD ISNT EVERYTHING.
PROVIDE AN ARGUMENT.
i just saw your posts in MC's fan club..
i understand you,you are a fanboy.
its hard to accept but MC sucks at PvP.
That's a terrible argument. MC is a force to be reckoned with. Who has he lost to in PvP? He lost to HuK, but they both know each other's styles so well that that doesn't really represent much of their "skill." If you're just going to troll, get off TL and stop posting retarded comments like "MC sucks at PvP."
He lose to MaNa and out of ESWC.
he lose to HuK and get 2nd place at MLG.
he lose to Inori and out of IPL.
he lose to NaNiWa and out of HomeStoryCup 3.
im not trolling.
Do you notice what is similar about every single one of those events? They weren't in Korea. He's flying around the world and loses to people who have been going on complete tears.
MaNa didn't lose a single game to Socke or Grubby either, he was playing the best PvP of his life.
As I said, HuK and MC know each other's play styles through and through, that means that it's less of a PvP because there's a completely new element that is racing through both of their minds.
Inori's play style is really odd, and MC had probably never pracitced against that style before IPL. I don't think that any of the top tier players felt comfortable against that style. Plus, Inori could have watched all of MC's VODs, where would MC find VODs of Inori exactly??
NaNiwa has fantastic PvP, if losing to NaNiwa makes you bad at a match-up (especially at a foreigner tournament), are Mvp and NesTea both bad vP?
So MC loses to jetlag in a match-up that is the most micro-intensive. That's cool. He's 25-8 in PvP in Korea. When MC plays his best, nobody beats him in PvP. Stop posting.
when korean loses online= lag
when korean loses offline = jetlag
TLPD isnt everything,im still saying PvP is MC's weakness.
Well then care to explain why his PvP winrate is still so fucking high??? Remember MC played more competitive game than almost any SC2 Koreans.
I said MLG. please read what I actually say. Thanks.
Oops..you get the gist. Inori PvP > HuK and HerO PvP.
Since when are HuK and HerO considered the top PvPers who we are going to compare another player to in order to determine "the best." Inori has a weird style of PvP. MC, Oz, and Puzzle all have much better PvP than anybody else. InCa is gimmicky, Inori has a weird almost unexplored style (when he first came out at IPL I don't think that MC has much experience playing against it), HerO and HuK actually aren't as good as other players, and frankly the only people left are players like Oz, Puzzle, JYP, MC, and the like. PartinG is also really, good as I see a lot of people are completely failing to mention him.
On February 01 2012 11:35 dragonborn wrote:
On February 01 2012 11:32 Olinimm wrote:
On February 01 2012 11:32 dragonborn wrote:
On February 01 2012 11:30 Olinimm wrote: [quote] How? You have no actual argument for that. Puzzle just lost to parting, he hasn't ever beaten MC, he has worse winrates, how is he better than MC?
I'm sorry I didn't know TLPD was the end-all be all for databases. I watched HerO and HuK both lose to him(Inori) in MLG and on IPL very convincingly. If you go just by TLPD...DRG's ZvT is his worst matchup, did you know that?
TLPD ISNT EVERYTHING.
PROVIDE AN ARGUMENT.
i just saw your posts in MC's fan club..
i understand you,you are a fanboy.
its hard to accept but MC sucks at PvP.
That's a terrible argument. MC is a force to be reckoned with. Who has he lost to in PvP? He lost to HuK, but they both know each other's styles so well that that doesn't really represent much of their "skill." If you're just going to troll, get off TL and stop posting retarded comments like "MC sucks at PvP."
He lose to MaNa and out of ESWC.
he lose to HuK and get 2nd place at MLG.
he lose to Inori and out of IPL.
he lose to NaNiWa and out of HomeStoryCup 3.
im not trolling.
Do you notice what is similar about every single one of those events? They weren't in Korea. He's flying around the world and loses to people who have been going on complete tears.
MaNa didn't lose a single game to Socke or Grubby either, he was playing the best PvP of his life.
As I said, HuK and MC know each other's play styles through and through, that means that it's less of a PvP because there's a completely new element that is racing through both of their minds.
Inori's play style is really odd, and MC had probably never pracitced against that style before IPL. I don't think that any of the top tier players felt comfortable against that style. Plus, Inori could have watched all of MC's VODs, where would MC find VODs of Inori exactly??
NaNiwa has fantastic PvP, if losing to NaNiwa makes you bad at a match-up (especially at a foreigner tournament), are Mvp and NesTea both bad vP?
So MC loses to jetlag in a match-up that is the most micro-intensive. That's cool. He's 25-8 in PvP in Korea. When MC plays his best, nobody beats him in PvP. Stop posting.
when korean loses online= lag
when korean loses offline = jetlag
TLPD isnt everything,im still saying PvP is MC's weakness.
Well then care to explain why his PvP winrate is still so fucking high??? Remember MC played more competitive game than almost any SC2 Koreans.
because he won a lot when 4 gate working?
So what, both players can 4 gates each others if they want, and MC has superior micro compare to the others and he won. Are you going to say that 4 gates wins don't count ?
disappointing result for EG. I thought that they had a chance and if not, the series would actually be close. For some reason EG always seems to play worse in team leagues, not sure why though. You'd think with such a stacked roster they would have better team results, but I guess individual success isn't an exact translation to team league format.
I said MLG. please read what I actually say. Thanks.
Oops..you get the gist. Inori PvP > HuK and HerO PvP.
Since when are HuK and HerO considered the top PvPers who we are going to compare another player to in order to determine "the best." Inori has a weird style of PvP. MC, Oz, and Puzzle all have much better PvP than anybody else. InCa is gimmicky, Inori has a weird almost unexplored style (when he first came out at IPL I don't think that MC has much experience playing against it), HerO and HuK actually aren't as good as other players, and frankly the only people left are players like Oz, Puzzle, JYP, MC, and the like. PartinG is also really, good as I see a lot of people are completely failing to mention him.
On February 01 2012 11:35 dragonborn wrote:
On February 01 2012 11:32 Olinimm wrote:
On February 01 2012 11:32 dragonborn wrote: [quote] [quote]
TLPD ISNT EVERYTHING.
PROVIDE AN ARGUMENT.
i just saw your posts in MC's fan club..
i understand you,you are a fanboy.
its hard to accept but MC sucks at PvP.
That's a terrible argument. MC is a force to be reckoned with. Who has he lost to in PvP? He lost to HuK, but they both know each other's styles so well that that doesn't really represent much of their "skill." If you're just going to troll, get off TL and stop posting retarded comments like "MC sucks at PvP."
He lose to MaNa and out of ESWC.
he lose to HuK and get 2nd place at MLG.
he lose to Inori and out of IPL.
he lose to NaNiWa and out of HomeStoryCup 3.
im not trolling.
Do you notice what is similar about every single one of those events? They weren't in Korea. He's flying around the world and loses to people who have been going on complete tears.
MaNa didn't lose a single game to Socke or Grubby either, he was playing the best PvP of his life.
As I said, HuK and MC know each other's play styles through and through, that means that it's less of a PvP because there's a completely new element that is racing through both of their minds.
Inori's play style is really odd, and MC had probably never pracitced against that style before IPL. I don't think that any of the top tier players felt comfortable against that style. Plus, Inori could have watched all of MC's VODs, where would MC find VODs of Inori exactly??
NaNiwa has fantastic PvP, if losing to NaNiwa makes you bad at a match-up (especially at a foreigner tournament), are Mvp and NesTea both bad vP?
So MC loses to jetlag in a match-up that is the most micro-intensive. That's cool. He's 25-8 in PvP in Korea. When MC plays his best, nobody beats him in PvP. Stop posting.
when korean loses online= lag
when korean loses offline = jetlag
TLPD isnt everything,im still saying PvP is MC's weakness.
Well then care to explain why his PvP winrate is still so fucking high??? Remember MC played more competitive game than almost any SC2 Koreans.
because he won a lot when 4 gate working?
So what, both players can 4 gates each others if they want, and MC has superior micro compare to the others and he won. Are you going to say that 4 gates wins don't count ?
im saying 4 gate currently not working like in the past.
MC's PvP since IPL 3/GSL super tournament 20/17,which is pretty poor for best PvP or top 3 PvP player lol..
EPT
