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On January 24 2012 19:01 Shellshock1122 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2012 15:58 bittman wrote:On January 24 2012 06:11 architecture wrote:
How come people think MMA is the best.
Jjajkji and MVP have shown far more solid play. Here's a list of players that are the best: - MMA - DRG - MVP - Nestea - ForGG - MarineKing - Stephano - Naniwa Here's a list of players who are actually the best: - MVP Welcome to Team Liquid, where fanboys and one or two Best of 3's equate to the best in the world! Please... that list is nothing. You forgot tails, creator, POLT, hyun, leenock, huk, idra, genius, dimaga, kas, white ra, moonglade, ryung, supernova, nada, boxer, taeja, ganzi, sase.... they all have fans who have declared them the best at some point  and obviously CLIIIIIIDDDEEEEEEEE
My list is up to date though =P
And only Fionn and Artosis give Supernova any credit haha
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United Kingdom10823 Posts
On January 24 2012 20:18 bittman wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2012 19:01 Shellshock1122 wrote:On January 24 2012 15:58 bittman wrote:On January 24 2012 06:11 architecture wrote:
How come people think MMA is the best.
Jjajkji and MVP have shown far more solid play. Here's a list of players that are the best: - MMA - DRG - MVP - Nestea - ForGG - MarineKing - Stephano - Naniwa Here's a list of players who are actually the best: - MVP Welcome to Team Liquid, where fanboys and one or two Best of 3's equate to the best in the world! Please... that list is nothing. You forgot tails, creator, POLT, hyun, leenock, huk, idra, genius, dimaga, kas, white ra, moonglade, ryung, supernova, nada, boxer, taeja, ganzi, sase.... they all have fans who have declared them the best at some point and obviously CLIIIIIIDDDEEEEEEEE My list is up to date though =P And only Fionn and Artosis give Supernova any credit haha
That's not true. Drazerk gives Supernova a lot of credit because he builds Ravens.
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no, this list is it! top 20!
1. MVP
2. MMA
3. DRG
4. Leenock
5. Nestea
6. MC
7. Jijaki
8. Taeja
9. Oz
10. MKP
11. Genius
12. Sc
13. Supernova
14. Losira
15. Ganzi
16. Clide
17. GuMiHo
18. aLive
19. Curious
20. Boxer
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United Kingdom10823 Posts
Disagree totally:
1. Cliiiiiiiiiiiiii
2. MVP
3. iiiiiiiiiiiiii
4. MMA
5. iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
6. MC
7. iiiiiiiiiiiiiii
8. DRG
9. iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
10. Leenock
11. iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
12. Supernova
13. iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
14. Nestea
15. iiiiiiiiiiii
16. Genius
17. iiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
18. Jjakji
19. iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiide
20. Taeja
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On January 24 2012 20:54 Flexis wrote:
no, this list is it! top 20!
1. MVP
2. MMA
3. DRG
4. Leenock
5. Nestea
6. MC
7. Jijaki
8. Taeja
9. Oz
10. MKP
11. Genius
12. Sc
13. Supernova
14. Losira
15. Ganzi
16. Clide
17. GuMiHo
18. aLive
19. Curious
20. Boxer
Pretty reasonable list to be fair but ForGG is definitely better than Boxer even if his actual place is kind of hard to determine.
Ganzi belongs in the top 10 too, where as Taeja probably doesn't.
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On January 20 2012 10:04 Plexa wrote:
Anyone else think its kinda silly to base this off of 2011 rankings rather than placing in the groups?
Why should it be different? Not everyone lives with mentality of 'starting a new year with new beginnings'. Personally, I like it, as it rewards the players which have performed better.
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On January 24 2012 21:23 Seraphone wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2012 20:54 Flexis wrote:
no, this list is it! top 20!
1. MVP
2. MMA
3. DRG
4. Leenock
5. Nestea
6. MC
7. Jijaki
8. Taeja
9. Oz
10. MKP
11. Genius
12. Sc
13. Supernova
14. Losira
15. Ganzi
16. Clide
17. GuMiHo
18. aLive
19. Curious
20. Boxer Pretty reasonable list to be fair but ForGG is definitely better than Boxer even if his actual place is kind of hard to determine. Ganzi belongs in the top 10 too, where as Taeja probably doesn't.
Hmmm, I think Ganzi and Taeja are pretty close. The main difference between them is that Ganzi is a bit better at TvT and TvZ, but awful at TvP. On the other hand, Taeja is slightly worse at both TvT and TvZ, but vastly superior at TvP.
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On January 24 2012 21:23 Seraphone wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2012 20:54 Flexis wrote:
no, this list is it! top 20!
1. MVP
2. MMA
3. DRG
4. Leenock
5. Nestea
6. MC
7. Jijaki
8. Taeja
9. Oz
10. MKP
11. Genius
12. Sc
13. Supernova
14. Losira
15. Ganzi
16. Clide
17. GuMiHo
18. aLive
19. Curious
20. Boxer Pretty reasonable list to be fair but ForGG is definitely better than Boxer even if his actual place is kind of hard to determine. Ganzi belongs in the top 10 too, where as Taeja probably doesn't.
it's difficult to put clide up there when he hasn't done anything of note alive hasn't done much better lol.
but besides that, creator deserves the 20 spot for being the player that turned TvP from T winning 75% in korea to T winning 30%. (terrans HATE TvP right now because of creators strategies)
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On January 24 2012 21:41 SeaSwift wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2012 21:23 Seraphone wrote:On January 24 2012 20:54 Flexis wrote:
no, this list is it! top 20!
1. MVP
2. MMA
3. DRG
4. Leenock
5. Nestea
6. MC
7. Jijaki
8. Taeja
9. Oz
10. MKP
11. Genius
12. Sc
13. Supernova
14. Losira
15. Ganzi
16. Clide
17. GuMiHo
18. aLive
19. Curious
20. Boxer Pretty reasonable list to be fair but ForGG is definitely better than Boxer even if his actual place is kind of hard to determine. Ganzi belongs in the top 10 too, where as Taeja probably doesn't. Hmmm, I think Ganzi and Taeja are pretty close. The main difference between them is that Ganzi is a bit better at TvT and TvZ, but awful at TvP. On the other hand, Taeja is slightly worse at both TvT and TvZ, but vastly superior at TvP.
Ganzi's a Code A winner, has done solid in Code S and took 5th (or something like that) at an MLG.
He's got way better results than Taeja.
He is indeed crap at TvP but Taeja isn't exactly amazing at any matchups outside of Taeja vs Korean Weekly.
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On January 24 2012 21:47 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2012 21:23 Seraphone wrote:On January 24 2012 20:54 Flexis wrote:
no, this list is it! top 20!
1. MVP
2. MMA
3. DRG
4. Leenock
5. Nestea
6. MC
7. Jijaki
8. Taeja
9. Oz
10. MKP
11. Genius
12. Sc
13. Supernova
14. Losira
15. Ganzi
16. Clide
17. GuMiHo
18. aLive
19. Curious
20. Boxer Pretty reasonable list to be fair but ForGG is definitely better than Boxer even if his actual place is kind of hard to determine. Ganzi belongs in the top 10 too, where as Taeja probably doesn't. it's difficult to put clide up there when he hasn't done anything of note alive hasn't done much better lol. but besides that, creator deserves the 20 spot for being the player that turned TvP from T winning 75% in korea to T winning 30%. (terrans HATE TvP right now because of creators strategies)
Alive has been Code S for six months, took Round of 8 last season and is Round of 16 this season. That easily puts him in the top 20 in the world.
I agree that Clide is a more dubious claim because he's been slumping recently.
I'd say take out Clide and Boxer and add ForGG and Happy. Polt is unlucky to miss out too.
Losira doesn't deserve to be so high given his recent showings but was unfortunate not to get back into Code S.
I think everyone agrees on a top seven of MMA, MVP, Jjakji, Leenock, Nestea, DRG and Nestea but after that there's a lot of players who can all beat each other.
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On January 24 2012 21:56 Seraphone wrote:
Alive has been Code S for six months, took Round of 8 last season and is Round of 16 this season. That easily puts him in the top 20 in the world.
I agree that Clide is a more dubious claim because he's been slumping recently.
I'd say take out Clide and Boxer and add ForGG and Happy. Polt is unlucky to miss out too.
Losira doesn't deserve to be so high given his recent showings but was unfortunate not to get back into Code S.
I think everyone agrees on a top seven of MMA, MVP, Jjakji, Leenock, Nestea, DRG and Nestea but after that there's a lot of players who can all beat each other.
oh i meant that alive shouldn't be lower than clide like the list posted has. all of clides accomplishments alive has improved upon.
my point remains about creator though. and i couldn't see ForGG in the top 20 if we are doing it objectively, cool he beat a few Code A people, and then got horribly massacred in code S.
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Clide, Gumiho and Boxer definitely don't deserve to be consireded top 20 world when there are other players like TOP, TheStC or CoCa.
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On January 24 2012 22:05 Yaki wrote:
Clide, Gumiho and Boxer definitely don't deserve to be consireded top 20 world when there are other players like TOP, TheStC or CoCa.
TOP is not as good as Clide or Gumiho, and probably not Boxer although it's hard to judge because they have different strengths.
TOP has really good macro, but his unit control is not just OK, it's terrible.
Boxer has worse macro, but his strength has always been micro/tricky strats.
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United Kingdom36156 Posts
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On January 20 2012 10:04 Plexa wrote:
Anyone else think its kinda silly to base this off of 2011 rankings rather than placing in the groups?
Well, how would they chose the top 4 seeds out of 8 players who ended first of their groups? I thought the same as you as first, but when you think of it that wouldn't make sense
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Top 3 is MVP/MC/MMA right now.
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On January 24 2012 21:56 Seraphone wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2012 21:47 PrinceXizor wrote:On January 24 2012 21:23 Seraphone wrote:On January 24 2012 20:54 Flexis wrote:
no, this list is it! top 20!
1. MVP
2. MMA
3. DRG
4. Leenock
5. Nestea
6. MC
7. Jijaki
8. Taeja
9. Oz
10. MKP
11. Genius
12. Sc
13. Supernova
14. Losira
15. Ganzi
16. Clide
17. GuMiHo
18. aLive
19. Curious
20. Boxer Pretty reasonable list to be fair but ForGG is definitely better than Boxer even if his actual place is kind of hard to determine. Ganzi belongs in the top 10 too, where as Taeja probably doesn't. it's difficult to put clide up there when he hasn't done anything of note alive hasn't done much better lol. but besides that, creator deserves the 20 spot for being the player that turned TvP from T winning 75% in korea to T winning 30%. (terrans HATE TvP right now because of creators strategies) Alive has been Code S for six months, took Round of 8 last season and is Round of 16 this season. That easily puts him in the top 20 in the world. I agree that Clide is a more dubious claim because he's been slumping recently. I'd say take out Clide and Boxer and add ForGG and Happy. Polt is unlucky to miss out too. Losira doesn't deserve to be so high given his recent showings but was unfortunate not to get back into Code S. I think everyone agrees on a top seven of MMA, MVP, Jjakji, Leenock, Nestea, DRG and Nestea but after that there's a lot of players who can all beat each other.
I can not see why you can put Leenock over Mc.
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On January 25 2012 03:12 double620 wrote:
I can not see why you can put Leenock over Mc.
about 60% of leenocks GSL losses are to GSL finalists.
about half of MC's losses are to players who have not made code S.
:/
you have to go back all the way to the first 5 GSLs including open seasons to find a loss to someone not in the top 25 in ELO.
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On January 25 2012 03:27 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2012 03:12 double620 wrote:
I can not see why you can put Leenock over Mc. about 60% of leenocks GSL losses are to GSL finalists. about half of MC's losses are to players who have not made code S. :/ you have to go back all the way to the first 5 GSLs including open seasons to find a loss to someone not in the top 25 in ELO.
That is probably the only argument you can use to say Leenock is better than Mc. But even so when Leenock is playing his best, he still lost to a Mc who was kind of slumping or who was jetlagged.
In gsl, Leenock made it to the codeS final once just like top, Inca, rain and Losira and he had never been consistently doing well in CodeS. And in foreign tournament, he won a MLG. I am not trying to say Leenock is not good. In my opinion he is a top zerg but he is not doing better than the best toss in gsl.
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On January 25 2012 04:55 double620 wrote:
That is probably the only argument you can use to say Leenock is better than Mc. But even so when Leenock is playing his best, he still lost to a Mc who was kind of slumping or who was jetlagged.
In gsl, Leenock made it to the codeS final once just like top, Inca, rain and Losira and he had never been consistently doing well in CodeS. And in foreign tournament, he won a MLG. I am not trying to say Leenock is not good. In my opinion he is a top zerg but he is not doing better than the best toss in gsl.
the funny thing is, the list you just made of people who have been to the finals once?
leenock hasn't lost to any of those names. he's lost to (in the past 6 months)
MKP ( 3 GSL silvers)
Polt ( 1 GSL gold)
MC (2 GSl golds)
Nestea ( 3 GSL golds )
MVP ( 2 GSL golds 1 silver)
MMA (2 GSL golds 1 silver)
Ganzi (2nd best TvZ win rate at 79%)
Happy (best TvZ win rate at 89%)
Jjakji (1 GSL gold)
Alive (most consistant code S player)
and only one other player (supernova)
leenock has been knocked out of the GSL by
Jjakji (in finals)
MC (in Groups)
Ganzi (RO 16)
MKP (code A RO 8)
in the past 6 months.
It's no joke when people say Leenock is unlucky, he has always had the hardest road in the GSL of any player, and he consistantly makes it back to code S and takes down a few players.
MC has been knocked out of GSL by
SC (in groups)
someone in code A RO 16 (MC's TLPD is inadequate for his losses)
Monster (code A groups)
Noblesse (in groups)
Hongun (RO 8)
Alicia (RO 64 super tournament)
lately it seems MC has been doing FAR worse than leenock, and since a list of best players should be current. it seems obvious MC would not be above leenock, even though he's 4-2 against leenock in leenocks worst matchup.
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EPT
