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[GSL] Nov Code A RO24 D3 - Page 35

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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Drazerk
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United Kingdom31255 Posts
December 07 2011 09:47 GMT
#681
On December 07 2011 18:44 Drazerk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 07 2011 18:44 Drazerk wrote:
Game one on Calm Before the Storm

In the top left is Supernova

While in the top right is Gumiho


1:30


Gas for supernova followed by a barracks


4:30

Expansion on the way for bothj players

Supernova is going banshees
garlicface
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada4196 Posts
December 07 2011 09:47 GMT
#682
On December 07 2011 18:44 Rebs wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 07 2011 18:41 blade55555 wrote:
On December 07 2011 18:40 Rykros wrote:
To all those weak minds who think that was an all in and have no sense of judgement. It wasn't. Keen could transition out of it easily if Huk didnot just die.


Actually if Keen did no damage he would be fucked. Huk would roll over him if he held that. So yes by definition keen's attack was all in (did he even plop down an expansion?). A nexus first toss vs a terran who's expansion is way later, loses units and doesn't do damage is guaranteed to lose if the protoss doesn't fuck up.


See heres the wonderful thing about reactionary builds. You do them because you know they are going to do damage. They have the timings ironed out. In no universe can Huk get a Nexus first and shut that down completely imo. Even if he doesnt takes double gas and adds a gateway or 2 thats what 2? 3 ? stalkers. While its a big diff and Keen might not kill him he would for sure lose his nat and maybe some probes in the least.

This part makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside. Hardcounters to the degree we just saw will almost never put a player behind. Not unless their execution is absolutely non-existant. Maybe it's just me, but I enjoy having certain strats on specific maps be nearly impossible to employ if they're scouted (or predicted).
#TeamBuLba
Reaper9
Profile Joined January 2010
United States1724 Posts
December 07 2011 09:47 GMT
#683
Nova going for barracks then fact, meanwhile Gumiho gets two racks.
I post only when my brain works.
K3Nyy
Profile Joined February 2010
United States1961 Posts
December 07 2011 09:47 GMT
#684
On December 07 2011 18:41 blade55555 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 07 2011 18:40 Rykros wrote:
To all those weak minds who think that was an all in and have no sense of judgement. It wasn't. Keen could transition out of it easily if Huk didnot just die.


Actually if Keen did no damage he would be fucked. Huk would roll over him if he held that. So yes by definition keen's attack was all in (did he even plop down an expansion?). A nexus first toss vs a terran who's expansion is way later, loses units and doesn't do damage is guaranteed to lose if the protoss doesn't fuck up.


The thing is, it's impossible for him to not do damage. The Protoss must be a way better player in order to come out ahead.
dapierow
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Serbia1316 Posts
December 07 2011 09:47 GMT
#685
On December 07 2011 18:45 n0ise wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 07 2011 18:41 dapierow wrote:
On December 07 2011 18:40 Bayyne wrote:
On December 07 2011 18:38 tztztz wrote:
On December 07 2011 18:34 Bayyne wrote:
On December 07 2011 18:34 Ezkaton wrote:
What in the actual fuck just happened in those 2 games? I'm a huk fan but i gotta say well played by keen just punishing a greedy opening and doing what he had to do.


Build order loss, plain and simple.


no, it was not a build order loss


Taken from Liquipedia:

Build Order Win or Build Order Loss:
When a player wins or loses not from skill or strategy but from a build order which hard counters the opponent's build order.

Do I really need to explain what keen did in those two games to hard counter Huk's opening? Are you really going to argue this? lolol


so what your saying is that, huk could have gone 3 nexus before gateway and it would still be considered a build order loss? where do you draw the line between build order and playing greedy?


But THAT'S WHAT BO LOSS MEANS. Playing greedy blindly. R O F L hahahahahaahhaha

Anyway. Instead of trying to scout he decided to go for the metagame counter, with 15 nexus, 2 gas and fast robo. He got lol'd on. HuK would've been more than fine with 3 gates and constant chrono on cybercore. Such is life.


No it doesn't, and your second sentence is retarded, metagame counter? wow...

User was warned for this post
Eat.Sleep.Starcraft 2
Seeker *
Profile Blog Joined April 2005
Where dat snitch at?37023 Posts
December 07 2011 09:47 GMT
#686
On December 07 2011 18:47 NeoLearner wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 07 2011 18:44 Drazerk wrote:
Game one on Calm Before the Storm

In the top left is Supernova

While in the top right is Gumiho

I've been out of the loop for a while it seems. Don't even know this map.
An in base natural and a close third? Is this Delta Quadrant?


This map generates a lot of interesting/fun games to watch : ]
ModeratorPeople ask me, "Seeker, what are you seeking?" My answer? "Sleep, damn it! Always sleep!"
TL+ Member
Drazerk
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United Kingdom31255 Posts
December 07 2011 09:48 GMT
#687
On December 07 2011 18:47 Drazerk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 07 2011 18:44 Drazerk wrote:
On December 07 2011 18:44 Drazerk wrote:
Game one on Calm Before the Storm

In the top left is Supernova

While in the top right is Gumiho


1:30


Gas for supernova followed by a barracks


4:30

Expansion on the way for bothj players

Supernova is going banshees


5:40


Second expansion on the way for supernova

Ebay on the way for gumioh
Ruscour
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
5233 Posts
December 07 2011 09:48 GMT
#688
There's no Costco in Australia.
Ezkaton
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Japan416 Posts
December 07 2011 09:48 GMT
#689
On December 07 2011 18:47 NeoLearner wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 07 2011 18:44 Drazerk wrote:
Game one on Calm Before the Storm

In the top left is Supernova

While in the top right is Gumiho

I've been out of the loop for a while it seems. Don't even know this map.
An in base natural and a close third? Is this Delta Quadrant?


Kinda Like that. But like 5 times bigger and better than delta quadrant
GwSC
Profile Joined December 2010
United States1997 Posts
December 07 2011 09:48 GMT
#690
South Korea has Costco. Mind blown.
figq
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
12519 Posts
December 07 2011 09:48 GMT
#691
On December 07 2011 18:42 gruff wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 07 2011 18:41 Pajegetc wrote:
On December 07 2011 18:40 figq wrote:
Stupid question, but why didn't they ever show Huk on camera today? Something wrong with him?


Probably falling asleep from all the travel.


Are we sure it was Huk playing?
Probably yes, but I got suspicious that he might not be playing from the studio booth for some reason. Couldn't see him anywhere.
If you stand next to my head, you can hear the ocean. - Day[9]
JesusOurSaviour
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United Arab Emirates1141 Posts
December 07 2011 09:48 GMT
#692
On December 07 2011 18:46 Ezkaton wrote:
Is it just me or does Gumiho kinda look like leenock?
This has been mentioned heaps by everyone

The Kr interviewer even asked Gumiho in an interview. Gumiho was indignant with his reply lol
Porcelina
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
United Kingdom3249 Posts
December 07 2011 09:48 GMT
#693
On December 07 2011 18:42 Ranir wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 07 2011 18:38 Porcelina wrote:
On December 07 2011 18:34 Ranir wrote:
On December 07 2011 18:32 Thugtronik wrote:
like why the FUCK would you go nexus first again in game 2? why play so fucking greedy seriously

HuK plays 12 hours a day, hes a hard trainer. Do you think it's the first time he's going nexus first? He probably played over 100 games doing nexus first just to prepare for this match, he planed to do that with what ever he was going to face. It's not like he didn't scout the gaz. It's just a meta game change and it's fine with that.


I find it very hard that, if he has done this build even remotely close to 100 times against a practice partner, that he has never been hard countered to the high heavens.

I mean, on a two player map (or whatever if the map has fixed spawn positions), I just cannot imagine how you hold off what a Terran would do to rush you off a Nexus first. I guess perhaps on long maps, but rush distance on Dual Sight is not that long.

Why would he do that build than? They have a week to think about what they are going to do and what maps they are going to play on. Nexus first is a super popular build in korea, it holds off raxs pressure and you get an obs fast enough vs 1/1/1. Just there's no way that HuK went into this thinking man ima Nexus first even if I know that there's this X build that hard counters it and that can be reactive to seeing a nexus first.


My point was not that HuK thought he would lose or anything, I do have serious doubts about how rigorous the testing it went through was. HuK did almost certainly not devote a week to this matchup; he has had a lot of travel and tournaments and he has not been in a Korean training house.

I guess it is possible that it was tested a lot and he was never pushed like that. Oh well, I guess we will never know, it is just a suspicion after all.
Drazerk
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United Kingdom31255 Posts
December 07 2011 09:48 GMT
#694
On December 07 2011 18:44 Drazerk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 07 2011 18:44 Drazerk wrote:
Game one on Calm Before the Storm

In the top left is Supernova

While in the top right is Gumiho

1:30


Gas for supernova followed by a barracks

4:30

Expansion on the way for bothj players

Supernova is going banshees


5:40


Second expansion on the way for supernova

Ebay on the way for gumioh


6:30

Lots of turrets on the way for Gumioh

Factory for Gumioh as well as the banshee starts harassing

Blue flame on the way for Supernova
AssyrianKing
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Australia2111 Posts
December 07 2011 09:49 GMT
#695
On December 07 2011 18:48 Ruscour wrote:
There's no Costco in Australia.

There is in Melbourne :D
John 15:13
NeoLearner
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Belgium1847 Posts
December 07 2011 09:49 GMT
#696
"Thinks about the good old days, when using the word "metagame" was a ban-able offense..."

On December 07 2011 18:47 Seeker wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 07 2011 18:47 NeoLearner wrote:
On December 07 2011 18:44 Drazerk wrote:
Game one on Calm Before the Storm

In the top left is Supernova

While in the top right is Gumiho

I've been out of the loop for a while it seems. Don't even know this map.
An in base natural and a close third? Is this Delta Quadrant?


This map generates a lot of interesting/fun games to watch : ]

Well, this will be the first one for me Should play it this evening. Seems like fun
Bankai - Correlation does not imply causation
Seeker *
Profile Blog Joined April 2005
Where dat snitch at?37023 Posts
December 07 2011 09:49 GMT
#697
Eh.... banshees work too I guess
ModeratorPeople ask me, "Seeker, what are you seeking?" My answer? "Sleep, damn it! Always sleep!"
TL+ Member
gruff
Profile Joined September 2010
Sweden2276 Posts
December 07 2011 09:49 GMT
#698
On December 07 2011 18:44 Azarkon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 07 2011 18:41 dapierow wrote:
On December 07 2011 18:40 Bayyne wrote:
On December 07 2011 18:38 tztztz wrote:
On December 07 2011 18:34 Bayyne wrote:
On December 07 2011 18:34 Ezkaton wrote:
What in the actual fuck just happened in those 2 games? I'm a huk fan but i gotta say well played by keen just punishing a greedy opening and doing what he had to do.


Build order loss, plain and simple.


no, it was not a build order loss


Taken from Liquipedia:

Build Order Win or Build Order Loss:
When a player wins or loses not from skill or strategy but from a build order which hard counters the opponent's build order.

Do I really need to explain what keen did in those two games to hard counter Huk's opening? Are you really going to argue this? lolol


so what your saying is that, huk could have gone 3 nexus before gateway and it would still be considered a build order loss? where do you draw the line between build order and playing greedy?


The TL definition isn't flawless: a build order that hard counters an opponent's build order is a strategic victory - how is it a win "not from strategy?" If the point is that a BO win/loss is the result of a coin flip build, then that should be inserted.


It doesn't have to be a coin flip build to be a bo win/loss.
Umbrella
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
Taiwan936 Posts
December 07 2011 09:49 GMT
#699
On December 07 2011 18:46 Ezkaton wrote:
Is it just me or does Gumiho kinda look like leenock?


It's not just you...

I had to double check who it was because of the Terran icon.
Drazerk
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United Kingdom31255 Posts
December 07 2011 09:49 GMT
#700
On December 07 2011 18:44 Drazerk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 07 2011 18:44 Drazerk wrote:
Game one on Calm Before the Storm

In the top left is Supernova

While in the top right is Gumiho

1:30


Gas for supernova followed by a barracks

4:30

Expansion on the way for bothj players

Supernova is going banshees

5:40


Second expansion on the way for supernova

Ebay on the way for gumioh


6:30

Lots of turrets on the way for Gumioh

Factory for Gumioh as well as the banshee starts harassing

Blue flame on the way for Supernova


7:30


BFH drop inc for supernova
Prev 1 33 34 35 36 37 97 Next
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