Semi Finals Match 1 - UC Irvine vs Cal State Fullerton Match 2 - UC San Diego vs UC Davis
Final Group Standing + Wildcard Draws
Wild Card Standings Wild Card Ranking 1 San Jose 3-0 (9-4) 2 UCR 1-2 (7-8) [Tie with UCLA in score and set differential] 3 UCLA 1-2 (6-7) 4 Nevada 1-2 (5-8) -----San Jose advances to ro8 as Wildcard 1, UCR advances to ro8 as Wildcard 2 due to head to head match win vs UCLA
Wildcard Tournament San Jose, Nevada, UCR, UCLA
Group A - Final Standings 1. UC Davis 3-0 (9-2) 2. Fullerton 2-1 (7-5) 3. San Jose 1-2 (4-7) 4. Pomona 0-3 (3-9)
Group B - Final Standings 1. UC Berkeley 3-0 (9-2) 2. UCSB 2-1 (6-5) 3. Nevada 1-2 (4-8) 4. USC 0-3 (5-9)
Group C - Final Standings 1. UCSD 3-1 (9-4) 2. UCI 2-2 (10-6) 3. UCR 2-2 (7-7) 4. UCLA 2-2 (6-7) 5. SDSU 1-3 (4-11)
Lineup submission: Submit lineups before playing your match (refer to map page). No racepicking knowing your opponents race.
If you are not being streamed/casted, you may play all your games at once We will count the first 3 wins in the series (like in the regular season)
Rules are the same as regular season All games will take place on Battle.net North American server All games are to be played in game mode 1v1 (except for the Set 3, 2v2 match, of course) and game speed Faster. Only players and CSL commentators are officially allowed in game. If both players agree, observers may join the game. ALL observers unaffiliated with CSL staff can be asked to leave at the players’ discretion, or can be denied entry before the game starts. Failure to adhere to a request to leave the game within a reasonable amount of time will result in an automatic set-loss for the observer’s team. In-game chat should be limited to pp, ppp, or related (for PAUSING the game) and gg, good game or related (for ENDING the game). Players can ask to remake the game in the first 30 seconds if there are latency issues. Note: This rule is not meant to be strict; however, if a player asks for chat to stop, his request must be obliged. Continuing to chat will result in a set loss. PROCEDURAL NOTE: To claim a set win, please request politely: "please stop chatting or I am reporting you for a chatting violation," and then do not respond to further provocations by other players. If the other player continues to chat and BM, it would be perfectly acceptable to, at that point, leave the game and send us the unfinished game replay to claim a win. In the case that a player is unintentionally dropped, there will be a rematch to determine the winner. In case a game clearly has a winner as determined by CSL staff, the set point will go to that winner. This rule does not pertain to intentionally dropped games. Teams will no longer be allowed to intentionally drop a player in the 2v2 set to "mineral feed" their teammate before mineral feeding is allowed at the 5:00 minute mark. Doing so will result in a forfeit for the violating team. IMPORTANT NOTE: Remember, results will stand if you play through the game. If there are problems or issues (lag, chat violations, etc) that call for a regame or forfeit, please pause the game and ask for an admin, you CANNOT retroactively request regames or forfeits (unless both teams agree on a regame).
PROCEDURE for lineup 1) Submit the first 5 players in your lineup (including 2v2) and contact a tournament admin to verify the lineup.
2) Meet the opposing coordinator, and view your match draw.
3) Shake hands
4) If you are not being broadcasted, it is recommended you play your games all at once if possible (except the ace). If you tie 2-2, proceed to ace match.
5) SAVE REPLAYS
6) Once the match is over, report to match admin and turn in results.
PROCEDURE for broadcast
1)Teams will be contacted for broadcast
2)They must have their lineups ready before broadcast
3)We will ask the Set 1 players to set up on stage while casters talk.
4)While the match is broadcasted, we respectfully ask the remaining players to be ready (wait with their gear by the stage or in the spectator area).
5)When the match is over, we will swap players while the camera is on the casters
The Collegiate Starleague team at UC Irvine proud to host the first ever CSL Regional LAN. Colleges from all over the west coast are invited to compete in the first ever CSL Regional LAN event, and to show the rest of the regions how stacked we really are. The CSL will provide travel stipends/reimbursements for schools going the extra distance, and schools not registered in the regular season can have a chance to qualify for the playoffs!
The west coast has always been a breeding ground for the best collegiate gamers in the StarCraft 2 community, which should ensure that the CSL Regional LAN series debut will showcase the most talented west coast collegiate players. This event will be one of four regional LAN events that will also grant CSL playoff qualifications for schools on top of the prize pool. Now in our 5th season of collegiate competition, we're excited to catch up with the rest of ESPORTS by bringing the heat of competition offline (for the most part, aside from Bnet 2.0)
University of California, Irvine Student Center - Doheny Beach Ballroom
Address: Doheny Beach Ballroom (enter the double doors across from the parking structure under the words CONFERENCE CENTER) Student Center, Irvine, California 92697
Group A: UC Davis Cal Poly Pomona Cal State U, Fullerton San Jose State University
Group B: UC Berkeley UC Santa Barbara University of Southern California University of Nevada, Reno Harvey Mudd College
Group C UC Riverside UC Irvine UC San Diego UC Los Angeles San Diego State University
The groups were made by ranking all the CSL teams attending by their rank in the regular season. We then filled in the groups from left to right (A - B - C). So in this case, the top 3 schools attending are UC Davis, UC Berkeley, and UC Riverside in that order. The schools ranked 4-6 are CPP, UCSB, and UCI, respectively.
The bottom two ranked schools were pushed over to group B and C.
Format: Day 1: 3 groups, with top 2 from each group advancing to the Ro8 Bracket. Rest of the schools go into wild groups, which will allow two more schools to advance to the Ro8 bracket.
Day 2: Ro8 single elimination bracket.
Depending on the schedule, we may/may not begin the Ro8 on Day1.
Standard CSL format, including 2v2 and ace match. Subject to change.
Set 1 Set 2 Set 3 (2v2) Set 4 Set 5 <Ace Match>
Complete schedule in spoilers: STAGE A: SATURDAY 14 teams --> 3 groups of 4 (round robin) top 2 per group advance --> 6 to playoffs + Show Spoiler +
HEAT 1 --> 12:00 – 1:00pm
Group A Cal vs UCSB *CAST* USC vs Nevada
Group B UCD vs Pomona Fullerton vs San Jose
Group C UCR vs UCI *CAST* UCSD vs UCLA HEAT 2 --> 1:00 – 2:00pm
Group A Cal vs USC *CAST* UCSB vs Nevada
Group B UCD vs Fullerton *CAST* San Jose vs Pomona
Group C UCR vs UCSD UCI vs SDSU
HEAT 3 --> 2:00 - 3:00pm
Group A Cal vs Nevada UCSB vs USC
Group B UCD vs San Jose Fullerton vs Pomona *CAST*
Group C UCR vs SDSU UCI vs UCLA *CAST*
HEAT 4 --> 3:00 - 4:00pm
Group C UCR vs UCLA UCSD vs SDSU *CAST*
HEAT 5 --> 4:00 - 5:00pm
Group C UCI vs UCSD *CAST* UCLA vs SDSU
**BREAK 5:00pm – 6:00pm**
STAGE B : SATURDAY
NEW GROUP --> (3rd place from each group advances, 4th place from group 3 advances) ROUND 2 : 4 teams --> 1 groups of 4 (round robin) 2 to playoff
HEAT 1 --> 6:00 - 7:00pm
A3 vs B3 C3 vs C4
HEAT 2 --> 7:00pm - 8:00pm A3 vs C3 B3 vs C4
Quarter Final 1 A 1st vs B 2nd
HEAT 3 --> 8:30 - 9:00pm A3 vs C4 C3 vs B3
Quarter Final 2 B 1st vs A 2nd HEAT 4 9:00pm – 11:00pm
As we take our first step into helping schools host live events, we are extremely appreciate for support from Twitch.tv and Tt eSports as we continue to foster the growth of collegiate ESPORTS.
Booking Online 1) Enter the dates you wish to stay on the right side of the page, click Go 2) Enter the Group Code and click continue
Booking by phone PHONE NUMBER: 1-800-445-8667
Ask to book a room and be sure to provide the Group Name for the discounted rate. GROUP NAME LISTED IN RESERVATION SYSTEM: Starcraft Competitive Gaming
Any North American colleges or universities are eligible Minimum of 5 players Minimum of 2 laptops per team
Schools are not required to be registered with the CSL regular season to participate. If a non-registered schools takes a top 2 spot, they are eligible to participate in the CSL Season 5 playoffs.
When you register, you must be 100% sure about your participation in the LAN. Your decision should not depend on the results of the travel stipend. If you have a financial situation, please let us know through email instead of registering through the form below.
Your team can attend any, none, or all regional LANs. However, remember that travel stipends will only be awarded for teams within reasonable distances (e.g., schools in Washington state should not request money for a flight to the Princeton LAN but should instead consider chartering a bus for Irvine’s LAN).
and submit to cstarleague [at] gmail [dot] com titled “UCI REGIONAL LAN” before January 6, 2012 midnight PST.
(Deadline: January 6, 2012)
Travel stipends will be awarded on a case by case basis. Priority will be given to schools traveling longer but reasonable distances. Travel stipends will only cover the minimum amount of players (4-5). Travel stipends will be a reimbursement and teams should not rely on stipends to attend the event (more details in the request form).
The Collegiate Starleague has hosted 4 successful season of StarCraft: Brood War and StarCraft 2 competition between schools all across North America. Now in our 5th season, we've grown from 44 schools to 250+ schools, with a European division ( http://eu.cstarleague.com ), a League of Legends division, ( http://lol.cstarleague.com ), and a High School division ( http://www.hsstarleague.com )
Not sure if your school has a CSL team? Visithttp://www.cstarleague.com/league to see if they are competing. Qualified players are still eligible to play in the regular season, as long as their school is currently registered. Unfortunately, alum are not eligible to play, but be sure to see if your school is among the 250 that are participating this season!
I will encourage all CSL teams to reach out to their local BarCraft community for additional funding if needed. Known BarCraft communities can be found here http://tinyurl.com/MapofBarcraft
What you do is simple
1) Let the barcraft community know that your team wants to travel and needs help 2) Locate the barcraft organizer & venue owner, explains the details 3) Talk about hosting a barcraft as a fundraiser to the owner. I recommend HomeStory Cup 4 in January. 4) ??? 5) FUNDRAISE!
really far for Canadian universities, hmm. How do you expect these universities to attend and i doubt the travel stipend will be much, especially when the prize pool isn't that big.
We REALLY want to do a Canadian LAN and talked to some schools about it already. I don't know the details except that it didn't work out for whatever reason, but I want to say it's definitely in the plans for the future. I at least recognize Canada has one of the most skilled, if not the most skilled, players in North America so if you want to see the top talent in the collegiate scene, you need to watch Canadian schools.
Update: I've talked to many coordinators through Skype and a lot of them have confirmed their presence at this event, HOWEVER, we need an official application for our records so we can plan accordingly. Schools outside the Socal region especially need to notify us ASAP (norcal, arizona, nevada, washington, etc)
Please submit your application to attend ASAP! Even though we've gotten some head counts and confirmation over Skype, we need an official record. NorCal schools or schools outside the socal region especially need to notify us of attendance asap PM me on TL if you have questions.
UC Irvine UCLA UC San Diego UC Berkeley UC Riverside UC Davis UC San Diego San Diego State University Cal Poly Pomona Cal State Fullerton San Jose State University University of Nevada, Reno Harvey Mudd University
Just had the production meeting yesterday. The stream should have really high production value, we aim to impress!
Travel stipends email have been sent out, so coordinators please check your emails!
Group A: UC Davis Cal Poly Pomona Cal State U, Fullerton San Jose State University
Group B: UC Berkeley UC Santa Barbara University of Southern California University of Nevada, Reno Harvey Mudd College
Group C UC Riverside UC Irvine UC San Diego UC Los Angeles San Diego State University
The groups were made by ranking all the CSL teams attending by their rank in the regular season. We then filled in the groups from left to right (A - B - C). So in this case, the top 3 schools attending are UC Davis, UC Berkeley, and UC Riverside in that order. The schools ranked 4-6 are CPP, UCSB, and UCI, respectively.
The bottom two ranked schools were pushed over to group B and C.
Format: Day 1: 3 groups, with top 2 from each group advancing to the Ro8 Bracket. Rest of the schools go into wild groups, which will allow two more schools to advance to the Ro8 bracket.
Day 2: Ro8 single elimination bracket.
Depending on the schedule, we may/may not begin the Ro8 on Day1.
make sure you all come down this weekend! it's gonna be a blast, and you'll have a chance to win some awesome gear from, ASUS, and Tt eSports !! Along with some cool CSL merchandise !
You guys could try to attend the Princeton LAN? Still quite a distance but we awarded travel stipends to schools travelling a far distance to help them out. It didn't cover 100% of the costs, but it definitely makes for a cheaper trip!
On December 06 2011 16:46 shindigs wrote: [ Teams attending: Group A: UC Davis Cal Poly Pomona Cal State U, Fullerton San Jose State University
Group B: UC Berkeley UC Santa Barbara University of Southern California University of Nevada, Reno Harvey Mudd College
Group C UC Riverside UC Irvine UC San Diego UC Los Angeles San Diego State University
Groups don't really seem very well seeded :o on a side note, will players be allowed to stream their personal/school (UCSB) play? I'm brining my rig which is basically only limited by inet connection when it comes to streaming quality, if so, will it be on TL or negative?
Thanks. Looking forward to this weekend, it will be sick.
On December 06 2011 16:46 shindigs wrote: [ Teams attending: Group A: UC Davis Cal Poly Pomona Cal State U, Fullerton San Jose State University
Group B: UC Berkeley UC Santa Barbara University of Southern California University of Nevada, Reno Harvey Mudd College
Group C UC Riverside UC Irvine UC San Diego UC Los Angeles San Diego State University
Groups don't really seem very well seeded :o on a side note, will players be allowed to stream their personal/school (UCSB) play? I'm brining my rig which is basically only limited by inet connection when it comes to streaming quality, if so, will it be on TL or negative?
Thanks. Looking forward to this weekend, it will be sick.
On December 06 2011 16:46 shindigs wrote: [ Teams attending: Group A: UC Davis Cal Poly Pomona Cal State U, Fullerton San Jose State University
Group B: UC Berkeley UC Santa Barbara University of Southern California University of Nevada, Reno Harvey Mudd College
Group C UC Riverside UC Irvine UC San Diego UC Los Angeles San Diego State University
Groups don't really seem very well seeded :o on a side note, will players be allowed to stream their personal/school (UCSB) play? I'm brining my rig which is basically only limited by inet connection when it comes to streaming quality, if so, will it be on TL or negative?
Thanks. Looking forward to this weekend, it will be sick.
UCSB is in easiest group....
lol? berk has suppy and a lot of mid-master+ players. usc has like 3 high master/gm players iirc. HMC has qxc.
I'm going to have to say grp C is the easiest group by far.
On December 06 2011 16:46 shindigs wrote: [ Teams attending: Group A: UC Davis Cal Poly Pomona Cal State U, Fullerton San Jose State University
Group B: UC Berkeley UC Santa Barbara University of Southern California University of Nevada, Reno Harvey Mudd College
Group C UC Riverside UC Irvine UC San Diego UC Los Angeles San Diego State University
Groups don't really seem very well seeded :o on a side note, will players be allowed to stream their personal/school (UCSB) play? I'm brining my rig which is basically only limited by inet connection when it comes to streaming quality, if so, will it be on TL or negative?
Thanks. Looking forward to this weekend, it will be sick.
UCSB is in easiest group....
lol? berk has suppy and a lot of mid-master+ players. usc has like 3 high master/gm players iirc. HMC has qxc.
I'm going to have to say grp C is the easiest group by far.
On January 17 2012 10:08 shindigs wrote: EDIT: We prefer you not stream your games. This is to avoid lag and overworking the network. We're pushing the limits of the room as is!
I posted an explanation for the seeding, but all in all california schools are pretty stacked!
well assuming we play the sets one by one for each match, and with 14 schools, there is really only going to be a max of 7 simultaneous games going on at once. pretty sure there were more games going on at the uci lan :D
On December 06 2011 16:46 shindigs wrote: [ Teams attending: Group A: UC Davis Cal Poly Pomona Cal State U, Fullerton San Jose State University
Group B: UC Berkeley UC Santa Barbara University of Southern California University of Nevada, Reno Harvey Mudd College
Group C UC Riverside UC Irvine UC San Diego UC Los Angeles San Diego State University
Groups don't really seem very well seeded :o on a side note, will players be allowed to stream their personal/school (UCSB) play? I'm brining my rig which is basically only limited by inet connection when it comes to streaming quality, if so, will it be on TL or negative?
Thanks. Looking forward to this weekend, it will be sick.
UCSB is in easiest group....
lol? berk has suppy and a lot of mid-master+ players. usc has like 3 high master/gm players iirc. HMC has qxc.
I'm going to have to say grp C is the easiest group by far.
because everyone has been laddering this season. its not worth my effort to go look at their profiles from last season, take screenshots, then upload them to prove a point, however, apparently it was worth my time to tell you that I don't feel like it. i know, pretty ironic.
On January 19 2012 13:38 FabledIntegral wrote: Lame.
So you have to submit your race? I can't just say "I want to play on TDA set 3"? Any particular reason? :o
Uh, that gives you an unfair advantage over others?
You can't say "I want to pick whatever matchup I'm best at when I see my opponent's race," especially when they're blind picking
How does that give any advantage whatsoever? It's not like they can't do the same. A lot of LANs allow it. I know the UCSD LAN that just happened allowed it, and MLG allows it too. Why would they be "blind picking"? They'd be doing the same...?
On January 18 2012 19:25 RuMCaKe wrote: I might try to make it out to spectate some brobostrats be concocted and executed with finesse. Looks like brobo is going to mindfuck the shit out of people.
fixed it for you man. on a serious note, if I see you i'll say hi .
On January 19 2012 13:38 FabledIntegral wrote: Lame.
So you have to submit your race? I can't just say "I want to play on TDA set 3"? Any particular reason? :o
Uh, that gives you an unfair advantage over others?
You can't say "I want to pick whatever matchup I'm best at when I see my opponent's race," especially when they're blind picking
How does that give any advantage whatsoever? It's not like they can't do the same. A lot of LANs allow it. I know the UCSD LAN that just happened allowed it, and MLG allows it too. Why would they be "blind picking"? They'd be doing the same...?
So you're gonna choose tvz on shattered temple and then pvz on xelnaga. How is that fair? and what if you want to play terran vs my zerg and i decide i want to play terran vs your terran and then you decide you want to play protoss vs my terran?
On January 19 2012 13:38 FabledIntegral wrote: Lame.
So you have to submit your race? I can't just say "I want to play on TDA set 3"? Any particular reason? :o
Uh, that gives you an unfair advantage over others?
You can't say "I want to pick whatever matchup I'm best at when I see my opponent's race," especially when they're blind picking
How does that give any advantage whatsoever? It's not like they can't do the same. A lot of LANs allow it. I know the UCSD LAN that just happened allowed it, and MLG allows it too. Why would they be "blind picking"? They'd be doing the same...?
So you're gonna choose tvz on shattered temple and then pvz on xelnaga. How is that fair? and what if you want to play terran vs my zerg and i decide i want to play terran vs your terran and then you decide you want to play protoss vs my terran?
And this has been an issue EVER? No, throughout all the LANs that allow race picking, this NEVER becomes an issue. Show me some times where this has become an issue.
If major tournies like GSL and MLG allow it and don't experience issues, I'm very hard pressed to find how you can make that argument. If it came down to it, flip a coin. We had to do that like twice for that UCSD LAN to determine vetos and starting maps.
You also don't say why it isn't fair. Why is it unfair to choose TvZ on shattered and PvZ on Xel Naga? You can choose whatever race you want, I can choose whatever race I want. You haven't made your point.
EDIT: Reason being, I've always played ZvT instead of TvT.
On January 19 2012 13:38 FabledIntegral wrote: Lame.
So you have to submit your race? I can't just say "I want to play on TDA set 3"? Any particular reason? :o
Uh, that gives you an unfair advantage over others?
You can't say "I want to pick whatever matchup I'm best at when I see my opponent's race," especially when they're blind picking
How does that give any advantage whatsoever? It's not like they can't do the same. A lot of LANs allow it. I know the UCSD LAN that just happened allowed it, and MLG allows it too. Why would they be "blind picking"? They'd be doing the same...?
So you're gonna choose tvz on shattered temple and then pvz on xelnaga. How is that fair? and what if you want to play terran vs my zerg and i decide i want to play terran vs your terran and then you decide you want to play protoss vs my terran?
And this has been an issue EVER? No, throughout all the LANs that allow race picking, this NEVER becomes an issue. Show me some times where this has become an issue.
If major tournies like GSL and MLG allow it and don't experience issues, I'm very hard pressed to find how you can make that argument. If it came down to it, flip a coin. We had to do that like twice for that UCSD LAN to determine vetos and starting maps.
You also don't say why it isn't fair. Why is it unfair to choose TvZ on shattered and PvZ on Xel Naga? You can choose whatever race you want, I can choose whatever race I want. You haven't made your point.
EDIT: Reason being, I've always played ZvT instead of TvT.
rofl if a terran can't win tvz on shattered temple they should uninstal the game because they are fucking terrible. the same can be said for t/p on XNC vs zerg. if you are really questioning the balance about maps which are inherently broken idk what to say.
On January 19 2012 13:38 FabledIntegral wrote: Lame.
So you have to submit your race? I can't just say "I want to play on TDA set 3"? Any particular reason? :o
Uh, that gives you an unfair advantage over others?
You can't say "I want to pick whatever matchup I'm best at when I see my opponent's race," especially when they're blind picking
How does that give any advantage whatsoever? It's not like they can't do the same. A lot of LANs allow it. I know the UCSD LAN that just happened allowed it, and MLG allows it too. Why would they be "blind picking"? They'd be doing the same...?
So you're gonna choose tvz on shattered temple and then pvz on xelnaga. How is that fair? and what if you want to play terran vs my zerg and i decide i want to play terran vs your terran and then you decide you want to play protoss vs my terran?
And this has been an issue EVER? No, throughout all the LANs that allow race picking, this NEVER becomes an issue. Show me some times where this has become an issue.
If major tournies like GSL and MLG allow it and don't experience issues, I'm very hard pressed to find how you can make that argument. If it came down to it, flip a coin. We had to do that like twice for that UCSD LAN to determine vetos and starting maps.
You also don't say why it isn't fair. Why is it unfair to choose TvZ on shattered and PvZ on Xel Naga? You can choose whatever race you want, I can choose whatever race I want. You haven't made your point.
EDIT: Reason being, I've always played ZvT instead of TvT.
Individual tournaments are different, because you know your opponent's race ahead of time. MLG also lets you change races in between games. That's fine in that setting. In a clanwar setting, it makes less sense, especially with our format.
On January 19 2012 13:38 FabledIntegral wrote: Lame.
So you have to submit your race? I can't just say "I want to play on TDA set 3"? Any particular reason? :o
Uh, that gives you an unfair advantage over others?
You can't say "I want to pick whatever matchup I'm best at when I see my opponent's race," especially when they're blind picking
How does that give any advantage whatsoever? It's not like they can't do the same. A lot of LANs allow it. I know the UCSD LAN that just happened allowed it, and MLG allows it too. Why would they be "blind picking"? They'd be doing the same...?
So you're gonna choose tvz on shattered temple and then pvz on xelnaga. How is that fair? and what if you want to play terran vs my zerg and i decide i want to play terran vs your terran and then you decide you want to play protoss vs my terran?
And this has been an issue EVER? No, throughout all the LANs that allow race picking, this NEVER becomes an issue. Show me some times where this has become an issue.
If major tournies like GSL and MLG allow it and don't experience issues, I'm very hard pressed to find how you can make that argument. If it came down to it, flip a coin. We had to do that like twice for that UCSD LAN to determine vetos and starting maps.
You also don't say why it isn't fair. Why is it unfair to choose TvZ on shattered and PvZ on Xel Naga? You can choose whatever race you want, I can choose whatever race I want. You haven't made your point.
EDIT: Reason being, I've always played ZvT instead of TvT.
rofl if a terran can't win tvz on shattered temple they should uninstal the game because they are fucking terrible. the same can be said for t/p on XNC vs zerg. if you are really questioning the balance about maps which are inherently broken idk what to say.
Your point isn't even remotely relevant. What is the purpose of your post?
On January 19 2012 13:38 FabledIntegral wrote: Lame.
So you have to submit your race? I can't just say "I want to play on TDA set 3"? Any particular reason? :o
Uh, that gives you an unfair advantage over others?
You can't say "I want to pick whatever matchup I'm best at when I see my opponent's race," especially when they're blind picking
How does that give any advantage whatsoever? It's not like they can't do the same. A lot of LANs allow it. I know the UCSD LAN that just happened allowed it, and MLG allows it too. Why would they be "blind picking"? They'd be doing the same...?
So you're gonna choose tvz on shattered temple and then pvz on xelnaga. How is that fair? and what if you want to play terran vs my zerg and i decide i want to play terran vs your terran and then you decide you want to play protoss vs my terran?
And this has been an issue EVER? No, throughout all the LANs that allow race picking, this NEVER becomes an issue. Show me some times where this has become an issue.
If major tournies like GSL and MLG allow it and don't experience issues, I'm very hard pressed to find how you can make that argument. If it came down to it, flip a coin. We had to do that like twice for that UCSD LAN to determine vetos and starting maps.
You also don't say why it isn't fair. Why is it unfair to choose TvZ on shattered and PvZ on Xel Naga? You can choose whatever race you want, I can choose whatever race I want. You haven't made your point.
EDIT: Reason being, I've always played ZvT instead of TvT.
Individual tournaments are different, because you know your opponent's race ahead of time. MLG also lets you change races in between games. That's fine in that setting. In a clanwar setting, it makes less sense, especially with our format.
How does it make less sense in a clanwar setting? Also, how does knowing your opponent's race ahead of time matter? Also, to continue, what's "that's fine in that setting" even mean? I've never competed in any major clanwars, but the minor leagues I've participated in ESEA and some other small one about the same size I can't remember the name also allowed race picking. In fact, CSL is the only league I've encountered so far that doesn't allow race picking.
So "not knowing your opponent's race ahead of time" suddenly makes race picking not viable? What? I simply don't understand why CSL insists that you lock your race in. Especially since you don't know your opponent's race ahead of time, you haven't prepared vs that particular race, so what does it matter what your opponent picks? Not like anyone actually prepares ahead of time in CSL anyways.
On January 20 2012 08:22 FabledIntegral wrote: I've participated in ESEA and some other small one about the same size I can't remember the name also allowed race picking.
HAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHA quoting ESEA as a tournament league with rules that are even remotely close to logical LOL not sure if serious or what. and we all know how credible small tournaments are.
On January 19 2012 13:38 FabledIntegral wrote: Lame.
So you have to submit your race? I can't just say "I want to play on TDA set 3"? Any particular reason? :o
Uh, that gives you an unfair advantage over others?
You can't say "I want to pick whatever matchup I'm best at when I see my opponent's race," especially when they're blind picking
How does that give any advantage whatsoever? It's not like they can't do the same. A lot of LANs allow it. I know the UCSD LAN that just happened allowed it, and MLG allows it too. Why would they be "blind picking"? They'd be doing the same...?
So you're gonna choose tvz on shattered temple and then pvz on xelnaga. How is that fair? and what if you want to play terran vs my zerg and i decide i want to play terran vs your terran and then you decide you want to play protoss vs my terran?
And this has been an issue EVER? No, throughout all the LANs that allow race picking, this NEVER becomes an issue. Show me some times where this has become an issue.
If major tournies like GSL and MLG allow it and don't experience issues, I'm very hard pressed to find how you can make that argument. If it came down to it, flip a coin. We had to do that like twice for that UCSD LAN to determine vetos and starting maps.
You also don't say why it isn't fair. Why is it unfair to choose TvZ on shattered and PvZ on Xel Naga? You can choose whatever race you want, I can choose whatever race I want. You haven't made your point.
EDIT: Reason being, I've always played ZvT instead of TvT.
rofl if a terran can't win tvz on shattered temple they should uninstal the game because they are fucking terrible. the same can be said for t/p on XNC vs zerg. if you are really questioning the balance about maps which are inherently broken idk what to say.
Your point isn't even remotely relevant. What is the purpose of your post?
On January 19 2012 13:38 FabledIntegral wrote: Lame.
So you have to submit your race? I can't just say "I want to play on TDA set 3"? Any particular reason? :o
Uh, that gives you an unfair advantage over others?
You can't say "I want to pick whatever matchup I'm best at when I see my opponent's race," especially when they're blind picking
How does that give any advantage whatsoever? It's not like they can't do the same. A lot of LANs allow it. I know the UCSD LAN that just happened allowed it, and MLG allows it too. Why would they be "blind picking"? They'd be doing the same...?
So you're gonna choose tvz on shattered temple and then pvz on xelnaga. How is that fair? and what if you want to play terran vs my zerg and i decide i want to play terran vs your terran and then you decide you want to play protoss vs my terran?
And this has been an issue EVER? No, throughout all the LANs that allow race picking, this NEVER becomes an issue. Show me some times where this has become an issue.
If major tournies like GSL and MLG allow it and don't experience issues, I'm very hard pressed to find how you can make that argument. If it came down to it, flip a coin. We had to do that like twice for that UCSD LAN to determine vetos and starting maps.
You also don't say why it isn't fair. Why is it unfair to choose TvZ on shattered and PvZ on Xel Naga? You can choose whatever race you want, I can choose whatever race I want. You haven't made your point.
EDIT: Reason being, I've always played ZvT instead of TvT.
Individual tournaments are different, because you know your opponent's race ahead of time. MLG also lets you change races in between games. That's fine in that setting. In a clanwar setting, it makes less sense, especially with our format.
How does it make less sense in a clanwar setting? Also, how does knowing your opponent's race ahead of time matter? Also, to continue, what's "that's fine in that setting" even mean? I've never competed in any major clanwars, but the minor leagues I've participated in ESEA and some other small one about the same size I can't remember the name also allowed race picking. In fact, CSL is the only league I've encountered so far that doesn't allow race picking.
So "not knowing your opponent's race ahead of time" suddenly makes race picking not viable? What? I simply don't understand why CSL insists that you lock your race in. Especially since you don't know your opponent's race ahead of time, you haven't prepared vs that particular race, so what does it matter what your opponent picks? Not like anyone actually prepares ahead of time in CSL anyways.
People actually DO prepare ahead of time for CSL. Maybe you don't, but just because you don't doesn't mean the rules should be less fair for someone else.
If for example, someone thinks : "ok Player X is Terran and usually plays on Metal. I'm gonna put my Terran sniper on Metal." Then, the draw is released and they guessed the player right and all of a sudden you switch ur race from Terran to Protoss and the guy spent all week practicing against Terran. Believe it or not, people take CSL seriously and practice for it.
This gives an unfair advantage to you.
And, it could lead to a really annoying situation in which both players want to matchup pick. What if both players don't play TvT, but prefer ZvT. "If you play T I'll play Z," "If you're Z I'll go T" - you could get into a big annoying argument because of it.
Is this scenario unlikely? Yes. Is it possible? Yes.
On January 19 2012 13:38 FabledIntegral wrote: Lame.
So you have to submit your race? I can't just say "I want to play on TDA set 3"? Any particular reason? :o
Uh, that gives you an unfair advantage over others?
You can't say "I want to pick whatever matchup I'm best at when I see my opponent's race," especially when they're blind picking
How does that give any advantage whatsoever? It's not like they can't do the same. A lot of LANs allow it. I know the UCSD LAN that just happened allowed it, and MLG allows it too. Why would they be "blind picking"? They'd be doing the same...?
So you're gonna choose tvz on shattered temple and then pvz on xelnaga. How is that fair? and what if you want to play terran vs my zerg and i decide i want to play terran vs your terran and then you decide you want to play protoss vs my terran?
And this has been an issue EVER? No, throughout all the LANs that allow race picking, this NEVER becomes an issue. Show me some times where this has become an issue.
If major tournies like GSL and MLG allow it and don't experience issues, I'm very hard pressed to find how you can make that argument. If it came down to it, flip a coin. We had to do that like twice for that UCSD LAN to determine vetos and starting maps.
You also don't say why it isn't fair. Why is it unfair to choose TvZ on shattered and PvZ on Xel Naga? You can choose whatever race you want, I can choose whatever race I want. You haven't made your point.
EDIT: Reason being, I've always played ZvT instead of TvT.
rofl if a terran can't win tvz on shattered temple they should uninstal the game because they are fucking terrible. the same can be said for t/p on XNC vs zerg. if you are really questioning the balance about maps which are inherently broken idk what to say.
Your point isn't even remotely relevant. What is the purpose of your post?
On January 20 2012 04:43 Xeris wrote:
On January 19 2012 20:39 FabledIntegral wrote:
On January 19 2012 20:29 T.O.P. wrote:
On January 19 2012 14:21 FabledIntegral wrote:
On January 19 2012 13:48 Xeris wrote:
On January 19 2012 13:38 FabledIntegral wrote: Lame.
So you have to submit your race? I can't just say "I want to play on TDA set 3"? Any particular reason? :o
Uh, that gives you an unfair advantage over others?
You can't say "I want to pick whatever matchup I'm best at when I see my opponent's race," especially when they're blind picking
How does that give any advantage whatsoever? It's not like they can't do the same. A lot of LANs allow it. I know the UCSD LAN that just happened allowed it, and MLG allows it too. Why would they be "blind picking"? They'd be doing the same...?
So you're gonna choose tvz on shattered temple and then pvz on xelnaga. How is that fair? and what if you want to play terran vs my zerg and i decide i want to play terran vs your terran and then you decide you want to play protoss vs my terran?
And this has been an issue EVER? No, throughout all the LANs that allow race picking, this NEVER becomes an issue. Show me some times where this has become an issue.
If major tournies like GSL and MLG allow it and don't experience issues, I'm very hard pressed to find how you can make that argument. If it came down to it, flip a coin. We had to do that like twice for that UCSD LAN to determine vetos and starting maps.
You also don't say why it isn't fair. Why is it unfair to choose TvZ on shattered and PvZ on Xel Naga? You can choose whatever race you want, I can choose whatever race I want. You haven't made your point.
EDIT: Reason being, I've always played ZvT instead of TvT.
Individual tournaments are different, because you know your opponent's race ahead of time. MLG also lets you change races in between games. That's fine in that setting. In a clanwar setting, it makes less sense, especially with our format.
How does it make less sense in a clanwar setting? Also, how does knowing your opponent's race ahead of time matter? Also, to continue, what's "that's fine in that setting" even mean? I've never competed in any major clanwars, but the minor leagues I've participated in ESEA and some other small one about the same size I can't remember the name also allowed race picking. In fact, CSL is the only league I've encountered so far that doesn't allow race picking.
So "not knowing your opponent's race ahead of time" suddenly makes race picking not viable? What? I simply don't understand why CSL insists that you lock your race in. Especially since you don't know your opponent's race ahead of time, you haven't prepared vs that particular race, so what does it matter what your opponent picks? Not like anyone actually prepares ahead of time in CSL anyways.
People actually DO prepare ahead of time for CSL. Maybe you don't, but just because you don't doesn't mean the rules should be less fair for someone else.
If for example, someone thinks : "ok Player X is Terran and usually plays on Metal. I'm gonna put my Terran sniper on Metal." Then, the draw is released and they guessed the player right and all of a sudden you switch ur race from Terran to Protoss and the guy spent all week practicing against Terran. Believe it or not, people take CSL seriously and practice for it.
This gives an unfair advantage to you.
And, it could lead to a really annoying situation in which both players want to matchup pick. What if both players don't play TvT, but prefer ZvT. "If you play T I'll play Z," "If you're Z I'll go T" - you could get into a big annoying argument because of it.
Is this scenario unlikely? Yes. Is it possible? Yes.
Overall, pick your race beforehand.
No, you have still failed to show how that grants any advantage. If I've said ahead of time "I don't tvt. I zvt." And they expect me to be sent out then they expect 3 possible match ups and will have accounted for that the entire week before.
On January 20 2012 08:22 FabledIntegral wrote: I've participated in ESEA and some other small one about the same size I can't remember the name also allowed race picking.
HAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHA quoting ESEA as a tournament league with rules that are even remotely close to logical LOL not sure if serious or what. and we all know how credible small tournaments are.
Since when has CSL had any more prestige than other small leagues? If anything, its just been a fun school tourney with plenty of mediocre players with a few semipros sprinkled in here or there. I've played in it since BW, where if you had a lineup of solid C players in your school you'd be considered one of the better schools.
Only school with a "pro" player had NoNy if I recall.
On January 20 2012 08:22 FabledIntegral wrote: I've participated in ESEA and some other small one about the same size I can't remember the name also allowed race picking.
HAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHA quoting ESEA as a tournament league with rules that are even remotely close to logical LOL not sure if serious or what. and we all know how credible small tournaments are.
Since when has CSL. had any more prestige than other small leagues? If anything, its just been a fun school tourney with plenty of mediocre players with a few semipros sprinkled in here or there.
anyways, the rules have been set. sadly, you cannot racepick T_T
On January 19 2012 13:38 FabledIntegral wrote: Lame.
So you have to submit your race? I can't just say "I want to play on TDA set 3"? Any particular reason? :o
Uh, that gives you an unfair advantage over others?
You can't say "I want to pick whatever matchup I'm best at when I see my opponent's race," especially when they're blind picking
How does that give any advantage whatsoever? It's not like they can't do the same. A lot of LANs allow it. I know the UCSD LAN that just happened allowed it, and MLG allows it too. Why would they be "blind picking"? They'd be doing the same...?
So you're gonna choose tvz on shattered temple and then pvz on xelnaga. How is that fair? and what if you want to play terran vs my zerg and i decide i want to play terran vs your terran and then you decide you want to play protoss vs my terran?
And this has been an issue EVER? No, throughout all the LANs that allow race picking, this NEVER becomes an issue. Show me some times where this has become an issue.
If major tournies like GSL and MLG allow it and don't experience issues, I'm very hard pressed to find how you can make that argument. If it came down to it, flip a coin. We had to do that like twice for that UCSD LAN to determine vetos and starting maps.
You also don't say why it isn't fair. Why is it unfair to choose TvZ on shattered and PvZ on Xel Naga? You can choose whatever race you want, I can choose whatever race I want. You haven't made your point.
EDIT: Reason being, I've always played ZvT instead of TvT.
rofl if a terran can't win tvz on shattered temple they should uninstal the game because they are fucking terrible. the same can be said for t/p on XNC vs zerg. if you are really questioning the balance about maps which are inherently broken idk what to say.
Your point isn't even remotely relevant. What is the purpose of your post?
On January 20 2012 04:43 Xeris wrote:
On January 19 2012 20:39 FabledIntegral wrote:
On January 19 2012 20:29 T.O.P. wrote:
On January 19 2012 14:21 FabledIntegral wrote:
On January 19 2012 13:48 Xeris wrote:
On January 19 2012 13:38 FabledIntegral wrote: Lame.
So you have to submit your race? I can't just say "I want to play on TDA set 3"? Any particular reason? :o
Uh, that gives you an unfair advantage over others?
You can't say "I want to pick whatever matchup I'm best at when I see my opponent's race," especially when they're blind picking
How does that give any advantage whatsoever? It's not like they can't do the same. A lot of LANs allow it. I know the UCSD LAN that just happened allowed it, and MLG allows it too. Why would they be "blind picking"? They'd be doing the same...?
So you're gonna choose tvz on shattered temple and then pvz on xelnaga. How is that fair? and what if you want to play terran vs my zerg and i decide i want to play terran vs your terran and then you decide you want to play protoss vs my terran?
And this has been an issue EVER? No, throughout all the LANs that allow race picking, this NEVER becomes an issue. Show me some times where this has become an issue.
If major tournies like GSL and MLG allow it and don't experience issues, I'm very hard pressed to find how you can make that argument. If it came down to it, flip a coin. We had to do that like twice for that UCSD LAN to determine vetos and starting maps.
You also don't say why it isn't fair. Why is it unfair to choose TvZ on shattered and PvZ on Xel Naga? You can choose whatever race you want, I can choose whatever race I want. You haven't made your point.
EDIT: Reason being, I've always played ZvT instead of TvT.
Individual tournaments are different, because you know your opponent's race ahead of time. MLG also lets you change races in between games. That's fine in that setting. In a clanwar setting, it makes less sense, especially with our format.
How does it make less sense in a clanwar setting? Also, how does knowing your opponent's race ahead of time matter? Also, to continue, what's "that's fine in that setting" even mean? I've never competed in any major clanwars, but the minor leagues I've participated in ESEA and some other small one about the same size I can't remember the name also allowed race picking. In fact, CSL is the only league I've encountered so far that doesn't allow race picking.
So "not knowing your opponent's race ahead of time" suddenly makes race picking not viable? What? I simply don't understand why CSL insists that you lock your race in. Especially since you don't know your opponent's race ahead of time, you haven't prepared vs that particular race, so what does it matter what your opponent picks? Not like anyone actually prepares ahead of time in CSL anyways.
People actually DO prepare ahead of time for CSL. Maybe you don't, but just because you don't doesn't mean the rules should be less fair for someone else.
If for example, someone thinks : "ok Player X is Terran and usually plays on Metal. I'm gonna put my Terran sniper on Metal." Then, the draw is released and they guessed the player right and all of a sudden you switch ur race from Terran to Protoss and the guy spent all week practicing against Terran. Believe it or not, people take CSL seriously and practice for it.
This gives an unfair advantage to you.
And, it could lead to a really annoying situation in which both players want to matchup pick. What if both players don't play TvT, but prefer ZvT. "If you play T I'll play Z," "If you're Z I'll go T" - you could get into a big annoying argument because of it.
Is this scenario unlikely? Yes. Is it possible? Yes.
Overall, pick your race beforehand.
No, you have still failed to show how that grants any advantage. If I've said ahead of time "I don't tvt. I zvt." And they expect me to be sent out then they expect 3 possible match ups and will have accounted for that the entire week before.
It grants you an advantage because you get to choose after your opponent has chosen.
On January 19 2012 13:38 FabledIntegral wrote: Lame.
So you have to submit your race? I can't just say "I want to play on TDA set 3"? Any particular reason? :o
Uh, that gives you an unfair advantage over others?
You can't say "I want to pick whatever matchup I'm best at when I see my opponent's race," especially when they're blind picking
How does that give any advantage whatsoever? It's not like they can't do the same. A lot of LANs allow it. I know the UCSD LAN that just happened allowed it, and MLG allows it too. Why would they be "blind picking"? They'd be doing the same...?
So you're gonna choose tvz on shattered temple and then pvz on xelnaga. How is that fair? and what if you want to play terran vs my zerg and i decide i want to play terran vs your terran and then you decide you want to play protoss vs my terran?
And this has been an issue EVER? No, throughout all the LANs that allow race picking, this NEVER becomes an issue. Show me some times where this has become an issue.
If major tournies like GSL and MLG allow it and don't experience issues, I'm very hard pressed to find how you can make that argument. If it came down to it, flip a coin. We had to do that like twice for that UCSD LAN to determine vetos and starting maps.
You also don't say why it isn't fair. Why is it unfair to choose TvZ on shattered and PvZ on Xel Naga? You can choose whatever race you want, I can choose whatever race I want. You haven't made your point.
EDIT: Reason being, I've always played ZvT instead of TvT.
rofl if a terran can't win tvz on shattered temple they should uninstal the game because they are fucking terrible. the same can be said for t/p on XNC vs zerg. if you are really questioning the balance about maps which are inherently broken idk what to say.
Your point isn't even remotely relevant. What is the purpose of your post?
On January 20 2012 04:43 Xeris wrote:
On January 19 2012 20:39 FabledIntegral wrote:
On January 19 2012 20:29 T.O.P. wrote:
On January 19 2012 14:21 FabledIntegral wrote:
On January 19 2012 13:48 Xeris wrote:
On January 19 2012 13:38 FabledIntegral wrote: Lame.
So you have to submit your race? I can't just say "I want to play on TDA set 3"? Any particular reason? :o
Uh, that gives you an unfair advantage over others?
You can't say "I want to pick whatever matchup I'm best at when I see my opponent's race," especially when they're blind picking
How does that give any advantage whatsoever? It's not like they can't do the same. A lot of LANs allow it. I know the UCSD LAN that just happened allowed it, and MLG allows it too. Why would they be "blind picking"? They'd be doing the same...?
So you're gonna choose tvz on shattered temple and then pvz on xelnaga. How is that fair? and what if you want to play terran vs my zerg and i decide i want to play terran vs your terran and then you decide you want to play protoss vs my terran?
And this has been an issue EVER? No, throughout all the LANs that allow race picking, this NEVER becomes an issue. Show me some times where this has become an issue.
If major tournies like GSL and MLG allow it and don't experience issues, I'm very hard pressed to find how you can make that argument. If it came down to it, flip a coin. We had to do that like twice for that UCSD LAN to determine vetos and starting maps.
You also don't say why it isn't fair. Why is it unfair to choose TvZ on shattered and PvZ on Xel Naga? You can choose whatever race you want, I can choose whatever race I want. You haven't made your point.
EDIT: Reason being, I've always played ZvT instead of TvT.
Individual tournaments are different, because you know your opponent's race ahead of time. MLG also lets you change races in between games. That's fine in that setting. In a clanwar setting, it makes less sense, especially with our format.
How does it make less sense in a clanwar setting? Also, how does knowing your opponent's race ahead of time matter? Also, to continue, what's "that's fine in that setting" even mean? I've never competed in any major clanwars, but the minor leagues I've participated in ESEA and some other small one about the same size I can't remember the name also allowed race picking. In fact, CSL is the only league I've encountered so far that doesn't allow race picking.
So "not knowing your opponent's race ahead of time" suddenly makes race picking not viable? What? I simply don't understand why CSL insists that you lock your race in. Especially since you don't know your opponent's race ahead of time, you haven't prepared vs that particular race, so what does it matter what your opponent picks? Not like anyone actually prepares ahead of time in CSL anyways.
People actually DO prepare ahead of time for CSL. Maybe you don't, but just because you don't doesn't mean the rules should be less fair for someone else.
If for example, someone thinks : "ok Player X is Terran and usually plays on Metal. I'm gonna put my Terran sniper on Metal." Then, the draw is released and they guessed the player right and all of a sudden you switch ur race from Terran to Protoss and the guy spent all week practicing against Terran. Believe it or not, people take CSL seriously and practice for it.
This gives an unfair advantage to you.
And, it could lead to a really annoying situation in which both players want to matchup pick. What if both players don't play TvT, but prefer ZvT. "If you play T I'll play Z," "If you're Z I'll go T" - you could get into a big annoying argument because of it.
Is this scenario unlikely? Yes. Is it possible? Yes.
Overall, pick your race beforehand.
Well isn't practice completely irrelevant since we have no idea who our opponent's are going to be at this point?
On January 19 2012 13:38 FabledIntegral wrote: Lame.
So you have to submit your race? I can't just say "I want to play on TDA set 3"? Any particular reason? :o
Uh, that gives you an unfair advantage over others?
You can't say "I want to pick whatever matchup I'm best at when I see my opponent's race," especially when they're blind picking
How does that give any advantage whatsoever? It's not like they can't do the same. A lot of LANs allow it. I know the UCSD LAN that just happened allowed it, and MLG allows it too. Why would they be "blind picking"? They'd be doing the same...?
So you're gonna choose tvz on shattered temple and then pvz on xelnaga. How is that fair? and what if you want to play terran vs my zerg and i decide i want to play terran vs your terran and then you decide you want to play protoss vs my terran?
And this has been an issue EVER? No, throughout all the LANs that allow race picking, this NEVER becomes an issue. Show me some times where this has become an issue.
If major tournies like GSL and MLG allow it and don't experience issues, I'm very hard pressed to find how you can make that argument. If it came down to it, flip a coin. We had to do that like twice for that UCSD LAN to determine vetos and starting maps.
You also don't say why it isn't fair. Why is it unfair to choose TvZ on shattered and PvZ on Xel Naga? You can choose whatever race you want, I can choose whatever race I want. You haven't made your point.
EDIT: Reason being, I've always played ZvT instead of TvT.
rofl if a terran can't win tvz on shattered temple they should uninstal the game because they are fucking terrible. the same can be said for t/p on XNC vs zerg. if you are really questioning the balance about maps which are inherently broken idk what to say.
Your point isn't even remotely relevant. What is the purpose of your post?
On January 20 2012 04:43 Xeris wrote:
On January 19 2012 20:39 FabledIntegral wrote:
On January 19 2012 20:29 T.O.P. wrote:
On January 19 2012 14:21 FabledIntegral wrote:
On January 19 2012 13:48 Xeris wrote:
On January 19 2012 13:38 FabledIntegral wrote: Lame.
So you have to submit your race? I can't just say "I want to play on TDA set 3"? Any particular reason? :o
Uh, that gives you an unfair advantage over others?
You can't say "I want to pick whatever matchup I'm best at when I see my opponent's race," especially when they're blind picking
How does that give any advantage whatsoever? It's not like they can't do the same. A lot of LANs allow it. I know the UCSD LAN that just happened allowed it, and MLG allows it too. Why would they be "blind picking"? They'd be doing the same...?
So you're gonna choose tvz on shattered temple and then pvz on xelnaga. How is that fair? and what if you want to play terran vs my zerg and i decide i want to play terran vs your terran and then you decide you want to play protoss vs my terran?
And this has been an issue EVER? No, throughout all the LANs that allow race picking, this NEVER becomes an issue. Show me some times where this has become an issue.
If major tournies like GSL and MLG allow it and don't experience issues, I'm very hard pressed to find how you can make that argument. If it came down to it, flip a coin. We had to do that like twice for that UCSD LAN to determine vetos and starting maps.
You also don't say why it isn't fair. Why is it unfair to choose TvZ on shattered and PvZ on Xel Naga? You can choose whatever race you want, I can choose whatever race I want. You haven't made your point.
EDIT: Reason being, I've always played ZvT instead of TvT.
Individual tournaments are different, because you know your opponent's race ahead of time. MLG also lets you change races in between games. That's fine in that setting. In a clanwar setting, it makes less sense, especially with our format.
How does it make less sense in a clanwar setting? Also, how does knowing your opponent's race ahead of time matter? Also, to continue, what's "that's fine in that setting" even mean? I've never competed in any major clanwars, but the minor leagues I've participated in ESEA and some other small one about the same size I can't remember the name also allowed race picking. In fact, CSL is the only league I've encountered so far that doesn't allow race picking.
So "not knowing your opponent's race ahead of time" suddenly makes race picking not viable? What? I simply don't understand why CSL insists that you lock your race in. Especially since you don't know your opponent's race ahead of time, you haven't prepared vs that particular race, so what does it matter what your opponent picks? Not like anyone actually prepares ahead of time in CSL anyways.
People actually DO prepare ahead of time for CSL. Maybe you don't, but just because you don't doesn't mean the rules should be less fair for someone else.
If for example, someone thinks : "ok Player X is Terran and usually plays on Metal. I'm gonna put my Terran sniper on Metal." Then, the draw is released and they guessed the player right and all of a sudden you switch ur race from Terran to Protoss and the guy spent all week practicing against Terran. Believe it or not, people take CSL seriously and practice for it.
This gives an unfair advantage to you.
And, it could lead to a really annoying situation in which both players want to matchup pick. What if both players don't play TvT, but prefer ZvT. "If you play T I'll play Z," "If you're Z I'll go T" - you could get into a big annoying argument because of it.
Is this scenario unlikely? Yes. Is it possible? Yes.
Overall, pick your race beforehand.
No, you have still failed to show how that grants any advantage. If I've said ahead of time "I don't tvt. I zvt." And they expect me to be sent out then they expect 3 possible match ups and will have accounted for that the entire week before.
It grants you an advantage because you get to choose after your opponent has chosen.
Erm, yes, that would be the case, but I never intended to present it as that. I never said your opponent's race had to be static either. If I choose to play on metal, and say "I play TvZ, TvP, and ZvT" my matchups are locked in. Just as an opponent might enter as Zerg and have his matchups locked at "ZvZ, ZvT, or ZvP" OR he might do the same as me "ZvT, TvZ, or ZvP." How often does this occur? Extremely rare, and when it does, flip a damn coin or something. I mean, it's not like there wren't players all the way back from BW like Ret who said "I don't ZvZ, I TvZ" and was accommodated. Morrow seems to also always be accommodated in those regards.
There isn't any advantage in this regard. Although I don't think there is ANY issue with having non static races either (aka I see what race you are and change my race to Protoss, because clearly you could do the same).
"Issues" that could potentially arise are never actually problematic despite all the stupid "what ifs" that people try to say.
Since when has CSL had any more prestige than other small leagues? If anything, its just been a fun school tourney with plenty of mediocre players with a few semipros sprinkled in here or there. I've played in it since BW, where if you had a lineup of solid C players in your school you'd be considered one of the better schools.
Only school with a "pro" player had NoNy if I recall.
From my perspective 1 . u offending the league u gonna play 2 There is a big prize pool so its not jst for fun . 3 CSL is bigger than any other small league since it actually has big sponsors backing them up. 4 You will be surprise of how many good ppl are around California. 5 You just offended 3/4 of the participant calling them mediocre. 6 Who are you to try to change the rules ? 7 Bw is 1 game Sc2 is another game. 8 There are alot of leagues that dont accept race picking . 9. Stop complaining and do your best , a league or tournament wont change the way the rules are set just because some1 doesnt like it. 10 if u dont like it then dont participate.
On January 19 2012 13:38 FabledIntegral wrote: Lame.
So you have to submit your race? I can't just say "I want to play on TDA set 3"? Any particular reason? :o
Uh, that gives you an unfair advantage over others?
You can't say "I want to pick whatever matchup I'm best at when I see my opponent's race," especially when they're blind picking
How does that give any advantage whatsoever? It's not like they can't do the same. A lot of LANs allow it. I know the UCSD LAN that just happened allowed it, and MLG allows it too. Why would they be "blind picking"? They'd be doing the same...?
So you're gonna choose tvz on shattered temple and then pvz on xelnaga. How is that fair? and what if you want to play terran vs my zerg and i decide i want to play terran vs your terran and then you decide you want to play protoss vs my terran?
And this has been an issue EVER? No, throughout all the LANs that allow race picking, this NEVER becomes an issue. Show me some times where this has become an issue.
If major tournies like GSL and MLG allow it and don't experience issues, I'm very hard pressed to find how you can make that argument. If it came down to it, flip a coin. We had to do that like twice for that UCSD LAN to determine vetos and starting maps.
You also don't say why it isn't fair. Why is it unfair to choose TvZ on shattered and PvZ on Xel Naga? You can choose whatever race you want, I can choose whatever race I want. You haven't made your point.
EDIT: Reason being, I've always played ZvT instead of TvT.
rofl if a terran can't win tvz on shattered temple they should uninstal the game because they are fucking terrible. the same can be said for t/p on XNC vs zerg. if you are really questioning the balance about maps which are inherently broken idk what to say.
Your point isn't even remotely relevant. What is the purpose of your post?
On January 20 2012 04:43 Xeris wrote:
On January 19 2012 20:39 FabledIntegral wrote:
On January 19 2012 20:29 T.O.P. wrote:
On January 19 2012 14:21 FabledIntegral wrote:
On January 19 2012 13:48 Xeris wrote:
On January 19 2012 13:38 FabledIntegral wrote: Lame.
So you have to submit your race? I can't just say "I want to play on TDA set 3"? Any particular reason? :o
Uh, that gives you an unfair advantage over others?
You can't say "I want to pick whatever matchup I'm best at when I see my opponent's race," especially when they're blind picking
How does that give any advantage whatsoever? It's not like they can't do the same. A lot of LANs allow it. I know the UCSD LAN that just happened allowed it, and MLG allows it too. Why would they be "blind picking"? They'd be doing the same...?
So you're gonna choose tvz on shattered temple and then pvz on xelnaga. How is that fair? and what if you want to play terran vs my zerg and i decide i want to play terran vs your terran and then you decide you want to play protoss vs my terran?
And this has been an issue EVER? No, throughout all the LANs that allow race picking, this NEVER becomes an issue. Show me some times where this has become an issue.
If major tournies like GSL and MLG allow it and don't experience issues, I'm very hard pressed to find how you can make that argument. If it came down to it, flip a coin. We had to do that like twice for that UCSD LAN to determine vetos and starting maps.
You also don't say why it isn't fair. Why is it unfair to choose TvZ on shattered and PvZ on Xel Naga? You can choose whatever race you want, I can choose whatever race I want. You haven't made your point.
EDIT: Reason being, I've always played ZvT instead of TvT.
Individual tournaments are different, because you know your opponent's race ahead of time. MLG also lets you change races in between games. That's fine in that setting. In a clanwar setting, it makes less sense, especially with our format.
How does it make less sense in a clanwar setting? Also, how does knowing your opponent's race ahead of time matter? Also, to continue, what's "that's fine in that setting" even mean? I've never competed in any major clanwars, but the minor leagues I've participated in ESEA and some other small one about the same size I can't remember the name also allowed race picking. In fact, CSL is the only league I've encountered so far that doesn't allow race picking.
So "not knowing your opponent's race ahead of time" suddenly makes race picking not viable? What? I simply don't understand why CSL insists that you lock your race in. Especially since you don't know your opponent's race ahead of time, you haven't prepared vs that particular race, so what does it matter what your opponent picks? Not like anyone actually prepares ahead of time in CSL anyways.
People actually DO prepare ahead of time for CSL. Maybe you don't, but just because you don't doesn't mean the rules should be less fair for someone else.
If for example, someone thinks : "ok Player X is Terran and usually plays on Metal. I'm gonna put my Terran sniper on Metal." Then, the draw is released and they guessed the player right and all of a sudden you switch ur race from Terran to Protoss and the guy spent all week practicing against Terran. Believe it or not, people take CSL seriously and practice for it.
This gives an unfair advantage to you.
And, it could lead to a really annoying situation in which both players want to matchup pick. What if both players don't play TvT, but prefer ZvT. "If you play T I'll play Z," "If you're Z I'll go T" - you could get into a big annoying argument because of it.
Is this scenario unlikely? Yes. Is it possible? Yes.
Overall, pick your race beforehand.
No, you have still failed to show how that grants any advantage. If I've said ahead of time "I don't tvt. I zvt." And they expect me to be sent out then they expect 3 possible match ups and will have accounted for that the entire week before.
I can't be there in person but I'm soooo excited you have no idea, it's like watching a neglected child grow up into a good human being (oops, sorry Duran/Tim/everyone in CSL for being AWOL lately).
Since when has CSL had any more prestige than other small leagues? If anything, its just been a fun school tourney with plenty of mediocre players with a few semipros sprinkled in here or there. I've played in it since BW, where if you had a lineup of solid C players in your school you'd be considered one of the better schools.
Only school with a "pro" player had NoNy if I recall.
From my perspective 1 . u offending the league u gonna play 2 There is a big prize pool so its not jst for fun . 3 CSL is bigger than any other small league since it actually has big sponsors backing them up. 4 You will be surprise of how many good ppl are around California. 5 You just offended 3/4 of the participant calling them mediocre. 6 Who are you to try to change the rules ? 7 Bw is 1 game Sc2 is another game. 8 There are alot of leagues that dont accept race picking . 9. Stop complaining and do your best , a league or tournament wont change the way the rules are set just because some1 doesnt like it. 10 if u dont like it then dont participate.
Cool, you have plenty of shitty points.
Having a disagreement or saying that CSL isn't *more* prestigious than other leagues is hardly offending. I'm giving my viewpoint.
If you honestly think I offended 3/4 of the participants by calling them mediocre than you're a friggin' idiot. Yes, 3/4 of the players are mediocre. Who the hell is disputing that. Have you seen the rosters for teams? Some don't have ANY players above diamond.
Who am I trying to change the rules? Is that even a fucking argument? If you don't agree with the rules, you're not supposed to voice your opinion? God damn dude, really? Did I say I wasn't going to participate anyways? Did I say it was a dealbreaker? No. In fact, I like CSL, and think it's pretty damn cool, hence me participating in it for the past few years, jackass.
CSL had its origins in BW and there is ZERO difference in how scheduling actually works, so no, different games is not even a remotely relevant argument.
There are lots of leagues that do accept race picking as well, especially the more prestigious leagues. Hence my point - if they are going to come up with a rule like this, I hope they have some logical and sound reasoning for it.
If I don't like it I'm going to voice my opinion. Just because you don't like a particular facet doesn't mean you have to boycott the entire thing. As I said before, I like CSL, I like the effort the admins have put into finding sponsors, making things happen, and throwing this event. Which is why I'm going to spend my weekend at the LAN as opposed to with family for Chinese New Year. In fact, it's one of the more fun leagues I've participated in.
From my perspective, you're an idiot.
On January 21 2012 07:15 Xeris wrote: Fabled when did you turn into such a bitter human being, chill.
It's not even being bitter. As I just wrote, I think CSL is awesome. I just don't agree with one of your rules. The only reason I've been so adamant on posting about it is the actual reasoning given for it has thus far been terrible, which has served to simply annoy me on the matter. Like brobo coming in and posting the garbage about TvZ on Xel Naga which isn't relevant, and was simply there to mock me. None of the posts really, except yours actually, have really even been relevant to what I'm saying, but rather bashing, so forgive me if I'm super antsy on the subject. And I don't even agree with you on that matter (I'm not saying I'm right, mind you, I just don't agree). So overall, I've kept responding, looking for a decent answer that would at the very least satisfy me.
racepicking does not make sense in this context because it's supposed to be like proleague. in proleague you need to choose a race before you are sent out on a map because intelligently race-picking for maps or counterpicking the opposing team's picks is supposed to be part of the team strategy in this kind of league format. if you were allowed to choose your race after being sent out on a map it eliminates part of the strategy in this format.
race picking in a team league might make more sense if it was all-kill style or bo3 between each player, but not this specific format.
Since when has CSL had any more prestige than other small leagues? If anything, its just been a fun school tourney with plenty of mediocre players with a few semipros sprinkled in here or there. I've played in it since BW, where if you had a lineup of solid C players in your school you'd be considered one of the better schools.
Only school with a "pro" player had NoNy if I recall.
From my perspective 1 . u offending the league u gonna play 2 There is a big prize pool so its not jst for fun . 3 CSL is bigger than any other small league since it actually has big sponsors backing them up. 4 You will be surprise of how many good ppl are around California. 5 You just offended 3/4 of the participant calling them mediocre. 6 Who are you to try to change the rules ? 7 Bw is 1 game Sc2 is another game. 8 There are alot of leagues that dont accept race picking . 9. Stop complaining and do your best , a league or tournament wont change the way the rules are set just because some1 doesnt like it. 10 if u dont like it then dont participate.
Cool, you have plenty of shitty points.
Having a disagreement or saying that CSL isn't *more* prestigious than other leagues is hardly offending. I'm giving my viewpoint.
If you honestly think I offended 3/4 of the participants by calling them mediocre than you're a friggin' idiot. Yes, 3/4 of the players are mediocre. Who the hell is disputing that. Have you seen the rosters for teams? Some don't have ANY players above diamond.
Who am I trying to change the rules? Is that even a fucking argument? If you don't agree with the rules, you're not supposed to voice your opinion? God damn dude, really? Did I say I wasn't going to participate anyways? Did I say it was a dealbreaker? No. In fact, I like CSL, and think it's pretty damn cool, hence me participating in it for the past few years, jackass.
CSL had its origins in BW and there is ZERO difference in how scheduling actually works, so no, different games is not even a remotely relevant argument.
There are lots of leagues that do accept race picking as well, especially the more prestigious leagues. Hence my point - if they are going to come up with a rule like this, I hope they have some logical and sound reasoning for it.
If I don't like it I'm going to voice my opinion. Just because you don't like a particular facet doesn't mean you have to boycott the entire thing. As I said before, I like CSL, I like the effort the admins have put into finding sponsors, making things happen, and throwing this event. Which is why I'm going to spend my weekend at the LAN as opposed to with family for Chinese New Year. In fact, it's one of the more fun leagues I've participated in.
On January 21 2012 07:15 Xeris wrote: Fabled when did you turn into such a bitter human being, chill.
It's not even being bitter. As I just wrote, I think CSL is awesome. I just don't agree with one of your rules. The only reason I've been so adamant on posting about it is the actual reasoning given for it has thus far been terrible, which has served to simply annoy me on the matter. Like brobo coming in and posting the garbage about TvZ on Xel Naga which isn't relevant, and was simply there to mock me. None of the posts really, except yours actually, have really even been relevant to what I'm saying, but rather bashing, so forgive me if I'm super antsy on the subject. And I don't even agree with you on that matter (I'm not saying I'm right, mind you, I just don't agree). So overall, I've kept responding, looking for a decent answer that would at the very least satisfy me.
I've posted my reasons. You disagree... no need to continue arguing about it o-o;
On January 21 2012 07:43 rauk wrote: racepicking does not make sense in this context because it's supposed to be like proleague. in proleague you need to choose a race before you are sent out on a map because intelligently race-picking for maps or counterpicking the opposing team's picks is supposed to be part of the team strategy in this kind of league format. if you were allowed to choose your race after being sent out on a map it eliminates part of the strategy in this format.
race picking in a team league might make more sense if it was all-kill style or bo3 between each player, but not this specific format.
Well, even if you wanted it that way (which still nullifies the "preparation" argument), would me saying I play ZvT instead of TvT effect that in any way at all? I mean, if you look at it, the situation doesn't actually change, as long as they know one of the players plays ZvT instead of TvT. All the information is still presented beforehand.
Since when has CSL had any more prestige than other small leagues? If anything, its just been a fun school tourney with plenty of mediocre players with a few semipros sprinkled in here or there. I've played in it since BW, where if you had a lineup of solid C players in your school you'd be considered one of the better schools.
Only school with a "pro" player had NoNy if I recall.
From my perspective 1 . u offending the league u gonna play 2 There is a big prize pool so its not jst for fun . 3 CSL is bigger than any other small league since it actually has big sponsors backing them up. 4 You will be surprise of how many good ppl are around California. 5 You just offended 3/4 of the participant calling them mediocre. 6 Who are you to try to change the rules ? 7 Bw is 1 game Sc2 is another game. 8 There are alot of leagues that dont accept race picking . 9. Stop complaining and do your best , a league or tournament wont change the way the rules are set just because some1 doesnt like it. 10 if u dont like it then dont participate.
Cool, you have plenty of shitty points.
Having a disagreement or saying that CSL isn't *more* prestigious than other leagues is hardly offending. I'm giving my viewpoint.
If you honestly think I offended 3/4 of the participants by calling them mediocre than you're a friggin' idiot. Yes, 3/4 of the players are mediocre. Who the hell is disputing that. Have you seen the rosters for teams? Some don't have ANY players above diamond.
Who am I trying to change the rules? Is that even a fucking argument? If you don't agree with the rules, you're not supposed to voice your opinion? God damn dude, really? Did I say I wasn't going to participate anyways? Did I say it was a dealbreaker? No. In fact, I like CSL, and think it's pretty damn cool, hence me participating in it for the past few years, jackass.
CSL had its origins in BW and there is ZERO difference in how scheduling actually works, so no, different games is not even a remotely relevant argument.
There are lots of leagues that do accept race picking as well, especially the more prestigious leagues. Hence my point - if they are going to come up with a rule like this, I hope they have some logical and sound reasoning for it.
If I don't like it I'm going to voice my opinion. Just because you don't like a particular facet doesn't mean you have to boycott the entire thing. As I said before, I like CSL, I like the effort the admins have put into finding sponsors, making things happen, and throwing this event. Which is why I'm going to spend my weekend at the LAN as opposed to with family for Chinese New Year. In fact, it's one of the more fun leagues I've participated in.
From my perspective, you're an idiot.
On January 21 2012 07:15 Xeris wrote: Fabled when did you turn into such a bitter human being, chill.
It's not even being bitter. As I just wrote, I think CSL is awesome. I just don't agree with one of your rules. The only reason I've been so adamant on posting about it is the actual reasoning given for it has thus far been terrible, which has served to simply annoy me on the matter. Like brobo coming in and posting the garbage about TvZ on Xel Naga which isn't relevant, and was simply there to mock me. None of the posts really, except yours actually, have really even been relevant to what I'm saying, but rather bashing, so forgive me if I'm super antsy on the subject. And I don't even agree with you on that matter (I'm not saying I'm right, mind you, I just don't agree). So overall, I've kept responding, looking for a decent answer that would at the very least satisfy me.
I've posted my reasons. You disagree... no need to continue arguing about it o-o;
Yeah, that's fine, I would have dropped it if other posts hadn't come up. I never intended it to sound like a deal breaker or anything.
Since when has CSL had any more prestige than other small leagues? If anything, its just been a fun school tourney with plenty of mediocre players with a few semipros sprinkled in here or there. I've played in it since BW, where if you had a lineup of solid C players in your school you'd be considered one of the better schools.
Only school with a "pro" player had NoNy if I recall.
From my perspective 1 . u offending the league u gonna play 2 There is a big prize pool so its not jst for fun . 3 CSL is bigger than any other small league since it actually has big sponsors backing them up. 4 You will be surprise of how many good ppl are around California. 5 You just offended 3/4 of the participant calling them mediocre. 6 Who are you to try to change the rules ? 7 Bw is 1 game Sc2 is another game. 8 There are alot of leagues that dont accept race picking . 9. Stop complaining and do your best , a league or tournament wont change the way the rules are set just because some1 doesnt like it. 10 if u dont like it then dont participate.
Cool, you have plenty of shitty points.
Having a disagreement or saying that CSL isn't *more* prestigious than other leagues is hardly offending. I'm giving my viewpoint.
If you honestly think I offended 3/4 of the participants by calling them mediocre than you're a friggin' idiot. Yes, 3/4 of the players are mediocre. Who the hell is disputing that. Have you seen the rosters for teams? Some don't have ANY players above diamond.
Who am I trying to change the rules? Is that even a fucking argument? If you don't agree with the rules, you're not supposed to voice your opinion? God damn dude, really? Did I say I wasn't going to participate anyways? Did I say it was a dealbreaker? No. In fact, I like CSL, and think it's pretty damn cool, hence me participating in it for the past few years, jackass.
CSL had its origins in BW and there is ZERO difference in how scheduling actually works, so no, different games is not even a remotely relevant argument.
There are lots of leagues that do accept race picking as well, especially the more prestigious leagues. Hence my point - if they are going to come up with a rule like this, I hope they have some logical and sound reasoning for it.
If I don't like it I'm going to voice my opinion. Just because you don't like a particular facet doesn't mean you have to boycott the entire thing. As I said before, I like CSL, I like the effort the admins have put into finding sponsors, making things happen, and throwing this event. Which is why I'm going to spend my weekend at the LAN as opposed to with family for Chinese New Year. In fact, it's one of the more fun leagues I've participated in.
On January 21 2012 07:15 Xeris wrote: Fabled when did you turn into such a bitter human being, chill.
It's not even being bitter. As I just wrote, I think CSL is awesome. I just don't agree with one of your rules. The only reason I've been so adamant on posting about it is the actual reasoning given for it has thus far been terrible, which has served to simply annoy me on the matter. Like brobo coming in and posting the garbage about TvZ on Xel Naga which isn't relevant, and was simply there to mock me. None of the posts really, except yours actually, have really even been relevant to what I'm saying, but rather bashing, so forgive me if I'm super antsy on the subject. And I don't even agree with you on that matter (I'm not saying I'm right, mind you, I just don't agree). So overall, I've kept responding, looking for a decent answer that would at the very least satisfy me.
Note, we made a tentative list of schools we want to *cast*, but this is subject to change at a moments notice in an attempt to bring exposure to more schools!
I'm confused as to why a previous post wrote USC as winning their first game, but now they're reported as being 0-3 overall in the group. Is this a mistake by the OP?
On January 22 2012 12:55 .aquila wrote: I'm confused as to why a previous post wrote USC as winning their first game, but now they're reported as being 0-3 overall in the group. Is this a mistake by the OP?
I think results are the overall from the matches vs the school. So they might have won the first set but lost the match which would count as one loss... I think...
On January 18 2012 19:25 RuMCaKe wrote: I might try to make it out to spectate some brobostrats be concocted and executed with finesse. Looks like brobo is going to mindfuck the shit out of people.
fixed it for you man. on a serious note, if I see you i'll say hi .
LMAO! Your strat in the UCD match was great but your execution was far from having finesse. You totally did mindfuck ppl tho no doubt.
Just wanted to say that this event was super awesome and really well run. I was extremely impressed by the production and the organization was superb. I do think we have a little bit of constructive criticism though in terms of the format of the tournament. There are a few things that could be improved for the next CSL LANs.
First of all, and this obviously applies to us and UCSB the most, but the Ro8 should not be played on Day 1. I know the goal was to end the tournament earlier for teams that came from far away to have time to drive back, but the problem with Ro8 on Day 1 means that some teams are ELIMINATED from the tournament on the first day. Whereas wild card group teams remained in the tournament, teams that did well in group play (Berkeley 3-0, UCSB 2-1) were knocked out before the teams who lost in their groups. For us at least we felt extremely terrible after being eliminated and a bit sad that other teams who did more poorly actually got the privilege to play more. I think playing the Ro8 on Day 2 would not add that much time to the schedule, probably only 1-2 hours, and keeps teams from being eliminated and wanting to leave early. As well, Day 2 probably would end earlier than 8pm anyways since with only 3 rounds being played that should only be 5-7 hours total, and if it's started at 10PM then the tourney would end at around 3PM - 5PM ish. Obviously there are logistical issues that would cause delays but in general I think the tourney would still finish at a reasonable time even with Ro8 being played. *** Especially since 2 of the Ro8 matches weren't even played yesterday, I don't think playing Ro8 yesterday for two matches even saved any time.
Secondly, it seems the format rewarded teams who did poorly in groups, which I somewhat already mentioned earlier. As far as I know the teams were seeded #1 for Group A, #2 for Group B, #3 for Group C, and so on. So it doesn't make a ton of sense for WC winners (by default lower seeds) to be playing Group C. Instead, for losing in the original groups, they should be playing the winners of the toughest group, Group A. Losing in the original groups should make advancing more difficult, not easier. With WC vs Group C, the lowest seeds are playing each other, whereas higher seeds Group A vs Group B are eliminating each other. Instead, the format should be Group A vs WC and Group B vs Group C. Perhaps even four normal groups may have been a superior format, 3-3-3-4 groups may have solved the issue with WC rewarding teams who did worse in group play.
Overall though we loved the tournament and are really excited for future ones. It was extremely well run, very professional, and really fun. Major props to Duran and Tim for running it (and everyone else behind the scenes)! I hope these tournaments run much more often, as honestly I think they should. When I played volleyball we played tournaments pretty much every other week and it developed the teams / rivalries a lot and wasn't as devastating to teams if they lost in one tournament, as another tournament would be coming up soon for them to prove themselves yet again. I know the logistics for running this kind of tournament are insane, but I would love to see the future of CSL headed in this direction Thanks and I hope you find this feedback useful!
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Actually, on further thought, I don't think Group A vs WC and Group B vs Group C makes much sense either. Teams like San Jose State which likely may have won in another, easier group, would simply play Group A once again in bracket play, which would be a bit unfair. So maybe scrapping the entire wild card group idea would be better. This would mean that teams could be eliminated on the first day though without a second chance. However, I think it's fairer.
On January 23 2012 06:00 Superiorwolf wrote: Just wanted to say that this event was super awesome and really well run. I was extremely impressed by the production and the organization was superb. I do think we have a little bit of constructive criticism though in terms of the format of the tournament. There are a few things that could be improved for the next CSL LANs.
First of all, and this obviously applies to us and UCSB the most, but the Ro8 should not be played on Day 1. I know the goal was to end the tournament earlier for teams that came from far away to have time to drive back, but the problem with Ro8 on Day 1 means that some teams are ELIMINATED from the tournament on the first day. Whereas wild card group teams remained in the tournament, teams that did well in group play (Berkeley 3-0, UCSB 2-1) were knocked out before the teams who lost in their groups. For us at least we felt extremely terrible after being eliminated and a bit sad that other teams who did more poorly actually got the privilege to play more. I think playing the Ro8 on Day 2 would not add that much time to the schedule, probably only 1-2 hours, and keeps teams from being eliminated and wanting to leave early. As well, Day 2 probably would end earlier than 8pm anyways since with only 3 rounds being played that should only be 5-7 hours total, and if it's started at 10PM then the tourney would end at around 3PM - 5PM ish. Obviously there are logistical issues that would cause delays but in general I think the tourney would still finish at a reasonable time even with Ro8 being played. *** Especially since 2 of the Ro8 matches weren't even played yesterday, I don't think playing Ro8 yesterday for two matches even saved any time.
Secondly, it seems the format rewarded teams who did poorly in groups, which I somewhat already mentioned earlier. As far as I know the teams were seeded #1 for Group A, #2 for Group B, #3 for Group C, and so on. So it doesn't make a ton of sense for WC winners (by default lower seeds) to be playing Group C. Instead, for losing in the original groups, they should be playing the winners of the toughest group, Group A. Losing in the original groups should make advancing more difficult, not easier. With WC vs Group C, the lowest seeds are playing each other, whereas higher seeds Group A vs Group B are eliminating each other. Instead, the format should be Group A vs WC and Group B vs Group C. Perhaps even four normal groups may have been a superior format, 3-3-3-4 groups may have solved the issue with WC rewarding teams who did worse in group play.
Overall though we loved the tournament and are really excited for future ones. It was extremely well run, very professional, and really fun. Major props to Duran and Tim for running it (and everyone else behind the scenes)! I hope these tournaments run much more often, as honestly I think they should. When I played volleyball we played tournaments pretty much every other week and it developed the teams / rivalries a lot and wasn't as devastating to teams if they lost in one tournament, as another tournament would be coming up soon for them to prove themselves yet again. I know the logistics for running this kind of tournament are insane, but I would love to see the future of CSL headed in this direction Thanks and I hope you find this feedback useful!
-------
Actually, on further thought, I don't think Group A vs WC and Group B vs Group C makes much sense either. Teams like San Jose State which likely may have won in another, easier group, would simply play Group A once again in bracket play, which would be a bit unfair. So maybe scrapping the entire wild card group idea would be better. This would mean that teams could be eliminated on the first day though without a second chance. However, I think it's fairer.
Heya Suppy,
Thannks for the feedback. There are a lot of things we could have done with the format, and we'll keep working on it to improve it in the future. About the time -- unlike other big companies, I pretty much funded this entire LAN out of my own pocket. Most venues have set times where you need to be out of the building, and if you go over it you have to pay, a lot. For example, for the NASL finals, we had to pay some exorbitant amount of money for every hour past midnight we stayed. A big company like NASL can pay that... I can't.
This is why we wanted to get through the Ro8 finished on Saturday, so we could just do the semis and finals Sunday so we can have enough time to tear-down and be out by midnight. Obviously this is not ideal, and hopefully as we acquire more sponsorhship we can afford to be a lot more flexible.
So while I 100% agree with most of what you said (and about the format we definitely can make changes), a lot of things we have been really constricted financially with what we can do. I tried to get the most out of what we had!
On January 23 2012 12:52 AlphaFerg wrote: In honor of UCD pulling down the W, I'm releasing the Winter Hype video a little bit early! Check it out - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmCokxhh2ko
On January 23 2012 12:52 AlphaFerg wrote: In honor of UCD pulling down the W, I'm releasing the Winter Hype video a little bit early! Check it out - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmCokxhh2ko
On January 23 2012 12:52 AlphaFerg wrote: In honor of UCD pulling down the W, I'm releasing the Winter Hype video a little bit early! Check it out - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmCokxhh2ko
Need to edit in the game vs Brobocop.
I am Brobocop and I approve this message. Definitely, don't forget to include an asterisk by it for ghosting like a champ.
On January 23 2012 12:52 AlphaFerg wrote: In honor of UCD pulling down the W, I'm releasing the Winter Hype video a little bit early! Check it out - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmCokxhh2ko
Need to edit in the game vs Brobocop.
I am Brobocop and I approve this message. Definitely, don't forget to include an asterisk by it for ghosting like a champ.
On January 23 2012 12:52 AlphaFerg wrote: In honor of UCD pulling down the W, I'm releasing the Winter Hype video a little bit early! Check it out - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmCokxhh2ko
Need to edit in the game vs Brobocop.
I am Brobocop and I approve this message. Definitely, don't forget to include an asterisk by it for ghosting like a champ.
That "ghosting" excuse is pretty lame. You let yourself die to nukes, try watching again-- and then you made an ass of yourself in front of 5000? viewers. All he did was nuke and you did not react to it properly (i.e, letting your drones die over and over), and then letting 6-7 brood-lords die to one nuke.
And you were whining about burrowed banelings or something (he scanned the middle of the map and saw those with the mutalisks anyways)? Those didn't even change the outcome of the game. I saw another game of his on the stream and he played this same style later on in the LAN.
I'm glad everyone had a good time watching the stream. It's just the beginning!
Also, thanks to all the volunteers who made the event possible. A special huge thanks to all the teams who showed up to compete. It was really great to see the team dynamic of the CSL irl. I really want to do another event like this in california.
Was a wonderful event, thank so much Shindigs, Xeris, and everyone who made it happen! UCSB had tough times on the stage but overall we grew as a team and look forward to the next lan!
That "ghosting" excuse is pretty lame. You let yourself die to nukes, try watching again-- and then you made an ass of yourself in front of 5000? viewers. All he did was nuke and you did not react to it properly (i.e, letting your drones die over and over), and then letting 6-7 brood-lords die to one nuke.
And you were whining about burrowed banelings or something (he scanned the middle of the map and saw those with the mutalisks anyways)? Those didn't even change the outcome of the game. I saw another game of his on the stream and he played this same style later on in the LAN.
Manner up @ LANs yo.
you have no fucking idea what you're talking about (note: you weren't at the fucking event), furthermore, you're most likely supporting xeris because you're on light. did i tilt? ya. why? it was blatant tbeezy was ghosting from my position, trying to defend myself only makes me look worse, pretty fucking ironic huh? the sc2 community is a fucking joke sometimes. although that game likely would not have affected the outcome of the series, that isn't what matters to me.
On January 25 2012 15:59 shindigs wrote: No hard feelings toward UCSB, I know you're all good guys with a lot of PASSION. Always a pleasure having you come out and compete!
I C WAT U DID THAR. Shindigs thank you for getting me that coffee bro (when i was fixing to go on stage and was low on time). Next time don't forget creamer tho LOLOL, that was the first time I've ever drank a full cup of coffee w/o cream. Also, at the next lan I see you I'll hit you up and buy you coffee or something.
As for the overall experience of the lan, it was well hosted and I would like to graciously thank Xeris, Shindigs, and everyone else behind the scenes who made the event possible. While I understand there were a couple hiccups including: a lack of sound-proofing (which I hope can be fixed in the future) poor seeding (see superiorwolf aka suppy's post on page 9 or 10)
Despite this, the venue was great, a lot of places to eat were nearby, moreover, the room was pretty big and I personally didn't really feel any space issues. I don't remember the room being blazing hot or anything from all the PCs which some other lans have problems with so in other words, the temperature was good.
Thanks for the event and hopefully in future lans either casters or players can be in separate room to prevent situations like this from occurring.
That "ghosting" excuse is pretty lame. You let yourself die to nukes, try watching again-- and then you made an ass of yourself in front of 5000? viewers. All he did was nuke and you did not react to it properly (i.e, letting your drones die over and over), and then letting 6-7 brood-lords die to one nuke.
And you were whining about burrowed banelings or something (he scanned the middle of the map and saw those with the mutalisks anyways)? Those didn't even change the outcome of the game. I saw another game of his on the stream and he played this same style later on in the LAN.
Manner up @ LANs yo.
you have no fucking idea what you're talking about (note: you weren't at the fucking event), furthermore, you're most likely supporting xeris because you're on light. did i tilt? ya. why? it was blatant tbeezy was ghosting from my position, trying to defend myself only makes me look worse, pretty fucking ironic huh? the sc2 community is a fucking joke sometimes. although that game likely would not have affected the outcome of the series, that isn't what matters to me.
On January 25 2012 15:59 shindigs wrote: No hard feelings toward UCSB, I know you're all good guys with a lot of PASSION. Always a pleasure having you come out and compete!
I C WAT U DID THAR. Shindigs thank you for getting me that coffee bro (when i was fixing to go on stage and was low on time). Next time don't forget creamer tho LOLOL, that was the first time I've ever drank a full cup of coffee w/o cream. Also, at the next lan I see you I'll hit you up and buy you coffee or something.
As for the overall experience of the lan, it was well hosted and I would like to graciously thank Xeris, Shindigs, and everyone else behind the scenes who made the event possible. While I understand there were a couple hiccups including: a lack of sound-proofing (which I hope can be fixed in the future) poor seeding (see superiorwolf aka suppy's post on page 9 or 10)
Despite this, the venue was great, a lot of places to eat were nearby, moreover, the room was pretty big and I personally didn't really feel any space issues. I don't remember the room being blazing hot or anything from all the PCs which some other lans have problems with so in other words, the temperature was good.
Thanks for the event and hopefully in future lans either casters or players can be in separate room to prevent situations like this from occurring.
Thanks man,
There are definitely things we are going to look to improve for future events. Especially sound proofing and tournament structure.
We will definitely improve the sound proofing at the next event. We were spread thing during the event and during the first day we had Caleb trying to make sure the sound proof headphones were working. During the second day, I found the batteries were low and had them replaced ASAP. When they worked, I thought they were basically sound proof. I don't think its worth arguing about the issue or holding any grudges - we definitely made errors during the event and we want to improve.
That "ghosting" excuse is pretty lame. You let yourself die to nukes, try watching again-- and then you made an ass of yourself in front of 5000? viewers. All he did was nuke and you did not react to it properly (i.e, letting your drones die over and over), and then letting 6-7 brood-lords die to one nuke.
And you were whining about burrowed banelings or something (he scanned the middle of the map and saw those with the mutalisks anyways)? Those didn't even change the outcome of the game. I saw another game of his on the stream and he played this same style later on in the LAN.
Manner up @ LANs yo.
you have no fucking idea what you're talking about (note: you weren't at the fucking event), furthermore, you're most likely supporting xeris because you're on light. did i tilt? ya. why? it was blatant tbeezy was ghosting from my position, trying to defend myself only makes me look worse, pretty fucking ironic huh? the sc2 community is a fucking joke sometimes. although that game likely would not have affected the outcome of the series, that isn't what matters to me.
On January 25 2012 15:59 shindigs wrote: No hard feelings toward UCSB, I know you're all good guys with a lot of PASSION. Always a pleasure having you come out and compete!
I C WAT U DID THAR. Shindigs thank you for getting me that coffee bro (when i was fixing to go on stage and was low on time). Next time don't forget creamer tho LOLOL, that was the first time I've ever drank a full cup of coffee w/o cream. Also, at the next lan I see you I'll hit you up and buy you coffee or something.
As for the overall experience of the lan, it was well hosted and I would like to graciously thank Xeris, Shindigs, and everyone else behind the scenes who made the event possible. While I understand there were a couple hiccups including: a lack of sound-proofing (which I hope can be fixed in the future) poor seeding (see superiorwolf aka suppy's post on page 9 or 10)
Despite this, the venue was great, a lot of places to eat were nearby, moreover, the room was pretty big and I personally didn't really feel any space issues. I don't remember the room being blazing hot or anything from all the PCs which some other lans have problems with so in other words, the temperature was good.
Thanks for the event and hopefully in future lans either casters or players can be in separate room to prevent situations like this from occurring.
Thanks man,
There are definitely things we are going to look to improve for future events. Especially sound proofing and tournament structure.
I would like to reiterate while I was clearly upset by the lack of sound proofing [on day1], almost everything else at the lan was amazing. The production was great, location, etc, however; the lack of soundproofing I felt heavily detracted from the integrity of the tournament. To a lesser extent, the seeding was a bit odd but I understand from a logistical standpoint as you mentioned earlier in the thread you ran this out-of-pocket practically and you aren't some big organization that can run over on time where the consequences do not impact them as much.
On January 26 2012 09:31 FabledIntegral wrote: I couldn't hear a thing with the headphones on, maybe someone forgot to turn on the static sound thing for Brobo?
On day 1 or 2? I had my music @ like 25% on winamp where it nearly over powers my ingame sounds and I would venture to say it is quite loud and it still did not drown out the casters. If the sound was any louder I would have gotten a headache, furthermore, it could have been how the speakers in the room were positioned, idk personally, idc, I would just like it to be fixed next time so this situation does not occur because no one in this thread knows what it feels like to be in my shoes.
On January 26 2012 09:48 shindigs wrote: We will definitely improve the sound proofing at the next event. We were spread thing during the event and during the first day we had Caleb trying to make sure the sound proof headphones were working. During the second day, I found the batteries were low and had them replaced ASAP. When they worked, I thought they were basically sound proof. I don't think its worth arguing about the issue or holding any grudges - we definitely made errors during the event and we want to improve.
I can't comment on the second day, however, i hope the issue was resolved to preserve the integrity of the tournament. I italicized as by further bringing up the issue gets us no where as what is done is done. Great job shindigs and I look forward to seeing you in the future.
On January 26 2012 09:55 shindigs wrote: Also thanks for the kind words. I'll be sure to remember the cream next time.
On January 26 2012 09:31 FabledIntegral wrote: I couldn't hear a thing with the headphones on, maybe someone forgot to turn on the static sound thing for Brobo?
On day 1 or 2? I had my music @ like 25% on winamp where it nearly over powers my ingame sounds and I would venture to say it is quite loud and it still did not drown out the casters. If the sound was any louder I would have gotten a headache, furthermore, it could have been how the speakers in the room were positioned, idk personally, idc, I would just like it to be fixed next time so this situation does not occur because no one in this thread knows what it feels like to be in my shoes.
Oh, well the headpiece that went on top of the headphones are supposed to produce a loud static sound which (and I'm guessing) drowns out the sound far more than a song would. But I don't know, I didn't play with music in the background. Like when I had the headpiece on but the noise cancelling wasn't enabled, I could still make out what the casters were saying, but as soon as the noise cancelling was switched to on nearly everything got droned out. Only thing I could make out was when the crowd was cheering "OHHHHHHHHHHHHH" (I recall most distinctly in my game vs mystik when he had like 5 banelings chasing my clumped SCVs at my third all of a sudden I heard everyone, but that was it).
I'm not saying that was the issue, just a possibility.
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