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I cant help but think that if any of the series with drewbie or catz was even close then people would be embracing the server pride and loving the games as it brings more enoyment to them. As in the Korea vs the world event in the GSL.
It just seems that because European players are stomping them, the American posters want to shame us for beeing proud that our team is winning. There is nothing wrong with it and if it was someone like Sheth vs Europe and the games were close in skill, then im sure that both sides would be supporting there team loudly and unashamed.
Korea is the top dog as far as players skill comes in. Europe is in front of NA also, It seems that Americans dont want to admit this though and fight or try and belittle posters from europe that say it because really they are ashamed.
Recent NASL - 9 Koreans - 5 Europeans - 1 American ( Strealok was replaced by Alive, so should of been 8 Kor - 6 Euro - 1 NA )
TSL3 - Top 4 finishers - ALL Europe.
Americans Accept that Korea is ahead of them and dont mind when Korean fans show there national pride. Why do they not accept that Europe is also in front of them and why do they get upset when we show our pride also? double standards?
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On July 14 2011 18:24 BjC wrote:
I cant help but think that if any of the series with drewbie or catz was even close then people would be embracing the server pride and loving the games as it brings more enoyment to them. As in the Korea vs the world event in the GSL.
It just seems that because European players are stomping them, the American posters want to shame us for beeing proud that our team is winning. There is nothing wrong with it and if it was someone like Sheth vs Europe and the games were close in skill, then im sure that both sides would be supporting there team loudly and unashamed.
Korea is the top dog as far as players skill comes in. Europe is in front of NA also, It seems that Americans dont want to admit this though and fight or try and belittle posters from europe that say it because really they are ashamed.
Recent NASL - 9 Koreans - 5 Europeans - 1 American ( Strealok was replaced by Alive, so should of been 8 Kor - 6 Euro - 1 NA )
TSL3 - Top 4 finishers - ALL Europe.
Americans Accept that Korea is ahead of them and dont mind when Korean fans show there national pride. Why do they not accept that Europe is also in front of them and why do they get upset when we show our pride also? double standards?
Because, if NA admit EU is better, the are also admitting they have the weakest pool of players out of anyone.
In reality, HuK and IdrA are the only players on the same level as the top EU players. SeleCT is Korean in my eyes.
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On July 14 2011 18:24 BjC wrote:
Americans Accept that Korea is ahead of them and dont mind when Korean fans show there national pride. Why do they not accept that Europe is also in front of them and why do they get upset when we show our pride also? double standards?
edit: removed double quote
Perhaps the Korean fans know how to win and still remain classy.
There is a not so subtle but important difference between saying my favorite players are great and your favorite players are garbage.
For example obviously I'm a fan of Catz, but I'm still able to watch the first match of the series, enjoy and admired the build and strategy that Goody used on that map. That fast timing of the 8 marines hellion medivac was a thing of beauty and dominated the game. It was great build perfectly executed.
Maybe my brain is wired differently then other posters as my first thought from that match was nice play by goody, not catz is horrible.
The majority of discussion from these showmatch series is NA sucks players suck etc...
And that is just silly. All of the pro players are good Korea, EU, NA they are the top <1% and in any given match they can beat anyone. (Obviously the top elite are much more consistent in their wins)
So again it is my hope that the conversation can focus on the game play and what people do right and wrong in the matches instead of my region/player > your region/player.
In closing stay classy San Diego
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let's go catz i have faith! keep it up babe
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A lot of europeans are just pissed of that american players get more attention then top europeans when they can't even beat second tier europeans. I don't say that it is right or most think like that but that is what i heard a lot.
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On July 15 2011 02:16 Influ wrote:
A lot of europeans are just pissed of that american players get more attention then top europeans when they can't even beat second tier europeans. I don't say that it is right or most think like that but that is what i heard a lot.
It's not true, it was in the time when you heard the term euro trash a lot. And on stotg they were talking about how uncreative eu players were. Also about Kas winning versus Nada should have been the biggest upset ever, but that was a long time ago.
I think now a lot of people ego's just shine, because they feel continent or country pride. I am pretty sure that if NA was dominating EU, EU would be bashed much more.
I think on the end people stay people and we just need to accept that (doesn't of course mean that i accept bad behaviour).
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KR > EU > NA
Drewbie and CatZ are nowhere near the level of the best EU players. All facts.
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On July 15 2011 02:16 Influ wrote:
A lot of europeans are just pissed of that american players get more attention then top europeans when they can't even beat second tier europeans. I don't say that it is right or most think like that but that is what i heard a lot.
I'd agree that American players get more attention from fans than European players, but I think there's something to that. American players are creating shows and interacting with fans a lot, but I see nothing like that from EU players. People like Mr. Bitter, Catz, and Team vVv are all creating shows to connect to people, so I see stuff from them a lot more often. I know if White-Ra made a show, or any scheduled gaming time that I could watch during the day, I would watch it every time it was on.
I think the problem isn't that American players are getting more attention that European players, it's that European players aren't as active with connecting with fans. That's just my opinion, from someone in NA. I know leagues like NASL restream their shows for good EU times, but I don't see much coming the other way. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's just one thing I've been noticing lately.
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On July 14 2011 18:24 BjC wrote:
I cant help but think that if any of the series with drewbie or catz was even close then people would be embracing the server pride and loving the games as it brings more enoyment to them. As in the Korea vs the world event in the GSL.
It just seems that because European players are stomping them, the American posters want to shame us for beeing proud that our team is winning. There is nothing wrong with it and if it was someone like Sheth vs Europe and the games were close in skill, then im sure that both sides would be supporting there team loudly and unashamed.
Korea is the top dog as far as players skill comes in. Europe is in front of NA also, It seems that Americans dont want to admit this though and fight or try and belittle posters from europe that say it because really they are ashamed.
Recent NASL - 9 Koreans - 5 Europeans - 1 American ( Strealok was replaced by Alive, so should of been 8 Kor - 6 Euro - 1 NA )
TSL3 - Top 4 finishers - ALL Europe.
Americans Accept that Korea is ahead of them and dont mind when Korean fans show there national pride. Why do they not accept that Europe is also in front of them and why do they get upset when we show our pride also? double standards?
Meh... personally I don't care too much about nationality, and I am often very unimpressed that someone is overly proud to have been born in a country closer to a specific player who wins... it actually isn't an accomplishment at all... and that has always been my stance. I don't mind people cheering for Europe, but when people use it as leverage to talk down on other people simply because of where they were born, it is an absolute fucking joke.
I find myself cheering for Europeans about half the time against NA players. I care about the player's personality and gameplay much more than where they were born, though I admit I often like to cheer for the underdog when I don't have much of a preference which is more often than not the NA player when compared to EU since Europe does have better players.
Also... you really don't have to generalize all North Americans... I see countless NA posters say the EU server is better, and some pro players say the same. In fact Drewbie said it in the "Drewbie vs Europe Showmatch" thread. Just don't generalize so much. It makes your points seem weaker when it is so easy to dispel them by saying "wait... I see plenty of NA players say EU is better than NA" for example.
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On July 15 2011 09:02 TerlocSG wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2011 02:16 Influ wrote:
A lot of europeans are just pissed of that american players get more attention then top europeans when they can't even beat second tier europeans. I don't say that it is right or most think like that but that is what i heard a lot. I'd agree that American players get more attention from fans than European players, but I think there's something to that. American players are creating shows and interacting with fans a lot, but I see nothing like that from EU players. People like Mr. Bitter, Catz, and Team vVv are all creating shows to connect to people, so I see stuff from them a lot more often. I know if White-Ra made a show, or any scheduled gaming time that I could watch during the day, I would watch it every time it was on. I think the problem isn't that American players are getting more attention that European players, it's that European players aren't as active with connecting with fans. That's just my opinion, from someone in NA. I know leagues like NASL restream their shows for good EU times, but I don't see much coming the other way. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's just one thing I've been noticing lately.
The more you do beside practicing make you play worse. That's the main reason why at the start of CS2, everyone looked pretty equal, but with time KR > UE > NA. Because it's just koreans practice more than europeans who practice more than americans.
Not to forget that almost every pro / semi pro who coach are americans. ( give me a ue pro who do that, they ain't any )
And there's the fact that europeans pro fight themselves in weekly cup all month long, where NA are mostly custom and ladder practice.
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On July 15 2011 09:11 Noocta wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2011 09:02 TerlocSG wrote:On July 15 2011 02:16 Influ wrote:
A lot of europeans are just pissed of that american players get more attention then top europeans when they can't even beat second tier europeans. I don't say that it is right or most think like that but that is what i heard a lot. I'd agree that American players get more attention from fans than European players, but I think there's something to that. American players are creating shows and interacting with fans a lot, but I see nothing like that from EU players. People like Mr. Bitter, Catz, and Team vVv are all creating shows to connect to people, so I see stuff from them a lot more often. I know if White-Ra made a show, or any scheduled gaming time that I could watch during the day, I would watch it every time it was on. I think the problem isn't that American players are getting more attention that European players, it's that European players aren't as active with connecting with fans. That's just my opinion, from someone in NA. I know leagues like NASL restream their shows for good EU times, but I don't see much coming the other way. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's just one thing I've been noticing lately. The more you do beside practicing make you play worse. That's the main reason why at the start of CS2, everyone looked pretty equal, but with time KR > UE > NA. Because it's just koreans practice more than europeans who practice more than americans. Not to forget that almost every pro / semi pro who coach are americans. ( give me a ue pro who do that, they ain't any ) And there's the fact that europeans pro fight themselves in weekly cup all month long, where NA are mostly custom and ladder practice.
There is a german site where a lot of the well known pros offer coaching but I think that's not a good example, none of the big names from germany are known for practicing a lot so I still think you might have a point there.
I also think that it's way more easy to create content when you are a native english speaker which most european are not. Afaik White-ra has his own homepage where he is doing a lot, in general in the russian community is going on a lot and noone knows about that outside of eastern europe. In Germany weh have something similar to SotG, Take is doing a lot in german and there are a lot of other german caster etc.. I don't know about scandinavia, france or poland but I'm sure they have their stuff as well.
The whole entertainment industry shows that native english speakers have the most popular content and that's for sure not because noone else in the world cares about getting into it.
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On July 15 2011 09:01 iMp.will. wrote:
KR > EU > NA
Drewbie and CatZ are nowhere near the level of the best EU players. All facts.
Yes agreed, but drewbie and catz aren't the best NA players either of their races by a pretty long shot imo.
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catz is a really underrated player, plz give him a chance and stop being so harsh ^^
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On July 15 2011 09:02 TerlocSG wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2011 02:16 Influ wrote:
A lot of europeans are just pissed of that american players get more attention then top europeans when they can't even beat second tier europeans. I don't say that it is right or most think like that but that is what i heard a lot. I'd agree that American players get more attention from fans than European players, but I think there's something to that. American players are creating shows and interacting with fans a lot, but I see nothing like that from EU players. People like Mr. Bitter, Catz, and Team vVv are all creating shows to connect to people, so I see stuff from them a lot more often. I know if White-Ra made a show, or any scheduled gaming time that I could watch during the day, I would watch it every time it was on. I think the problem isn't that American players are getting more attention that European players, it's that European players aren't as active with connecting with fans. That's just my opinion, from someone in NA. I know leagues like NASL restream their shows for good EU times, but I don't see much coming the other way. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's just one thing I've been noticing lately.
it's a lot harder to make a show in EU because of the different languages on the continent.
Yes, every body can talk english but i don't think well enough to build a show.
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The US scene up to this point has mainly been about shows, showmatches and streaming personalities while EU has been focused on the competition, weekly cups and leagues. And the different approaches show.
The NA players I find most interesting and promising are the upcoming sixjax and a couple of FXO players since they aren't busy promoting the shit out of themself.
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While I agree the EU is stronger than NA on a broad scale, the fact is that players are individuals regardless of which country they are born in. Some NA players are better than some EU players and visa versa. Relax guys.
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TLOpen quarter finals today : 6 EU 2 KOR
Even with the server advantage, NA players seem to be struggling currently.
Let's see if they can catch up.
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On July 15 2011 17:35 TT1 wrote:
catz is a really underrated player, plz give him a chance and stop being so harsh ^^
Underrated is when you win shit and people still don't give you credit. CatZ has not come close to winning anything respected by himself in any important tournament. He can't even get out of open bracket in MLG when most respectable players do.
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On July 14 2011 06:24 mechavoc wrote:
Players are people not machines they have good days and bad days. They go through up cycles and down cycles SC2 is a hard game to master and as a result people go through rough losing streaks. Jinro for example was the best of the best for a while and now is back to the drawing board with recent struggles. Does that mean he is a horrible player? (Obviously not)
So... CatZ... who went 2-8 in NASL, had 8 "bad days" out of the 10 he had to play matches on, over a 10 week period? Those aren't just "bad days" anymore then, that's just BAD.
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On July 14 2011 18:24 BjC wrote:
I cant help but think that if any of the series with drewbie or catz was even close then people would be embracing the server pride and loving the games as it brings more enoyment to them. As in the Korea vs the world event in the GSL.
It just seems that because European players are stomping them, the American posters want to shame us for beeing proud that our team is winning. There is nothing wrong with it and if it was someone like Sheth vs Europe and the games were close in skill, then im sure that both sides would be supporting there team loudly and unashamed.
Korea is the top dog as far as players skill comes in. Europe is in front of NA also, It seems that Americans dont want to admit this though and fight or try and belittle posters from europe that say it because really they are ashamed.
Recent NASL - 9 Koreans - 5 Europeans - 1 American ( Strealok was replaced by Alive, so should of been 8 Kor - 6 Euro - 1 NA )
TSL3 - Top 4 finishers - ALL Europe.
Americans Accept that Korea is ahead of them and dont mind when Korean fans show there national pride. Why do they not accept that Europe is also in front of them and why do they get upset when we show our pride also? double standards?
Nah dude, we suck. Go Korea.
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EPT
