Continuing this Tuesday, Aug 30 8:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00) with part 3 of the 4 part Showmatch Series with coL's own CatZ taking on various players from Europe once a week!
After quite a long break due to MLGs, Blizzard Invitationals, Gamescom etc. we were not able to schedule a match right away, but today we are! CatZ will be playing against White-Ra!
In the past his teammate Drewbie played the first series against various players from the EU like: Beastyqt, White-Ra, DIMAGA, Kas & GoOdy ... and well the results were interesting
Now - will he be able to not only revenge his friend, not only his teammate but his complete continent? Or will he follow in Drewbie's footsteps? HERE you can check out the last Showmatch Series including (spoiler free)VODs, Replays etc.
Kas might be the favorite but Catz has shown that he can do very well against, theoretically, better players than him. Good luck to all the players, it will be great to watch these games
On July 06 2011 22:17 Zeller wrote: How did Drewbie do when he played vs EU?
Lost 4-1 to WhiteRa Lost 3-0 to BeastyQT Lost 3-1 to Dimaga Lost 3-0 to Kas Lost 3-0 to Goody
===
Cool to see this event back again Endrey, you did a great job with the last one
Ah I see, well hopefully these are a little closer, that's a strong set of opponents. I think any good player could go on a bad streak and lose to every single one of these guys like Drewbie did.
How was CatZ picked? Is there a vote somewhere where we can pick what non EU player we'd like to see play?
Lets hope it will be more of a competition than last time The most intersting game was the BM of Drewbie, but we forgave him since he appologized sincerely
Even though every series was pretty one-sided (Awesome last game though), you did a great job last time Endrey
Definitely looking forward to this.
Is it possible that you could get some less good players this time? I mean Drewbie got completely man-handled last time and i think a lot of people would like to see more even games. I love seeing games with Kas, but he is too good for both Drewbie and CatZ. Is it possible to get a mid-GM player for the next series instead of a top-player?
On July 06 2011 23:11 BansheeDK wrote: Even though every series was pretty one-sided (Awesome last game though), you did a great job last time Endrey
Definitely looking forward to this.
Is it possible that you could get some less good players this time? I mean Drewbie got completely man-handled last time and i think a lot of people would like to see more even games. I love seeing games with Kas, but he is too good for both Drewbie and CatZ. Is it possible to get a mid-GM player for the next series instead of a top-player?
Either way, I will be tuning in!
Drewbie and Catz might not be as good as Kas or White-Ra but saying that it would be good to invite a ''mid GM'' player in order to give them a chance is insulting to both Catz and Drewbie
On July 06 2011 23:11 BansheeDK wrote: Even though every series was pretty one-sided (Awesome last game though), you did a great job last time Endrey
Definitely looking forward to this.
Is it possible that you could get some less good players this time? I mean Drewbie got completely man-handled last time and i think a lot of people would like to see more even games. I love seeing games with Kas, but he is too good for both Drewbie and CatZ. Is it possible to get a mid-GM player for the next series instead of a top-player?
Either way, I will be tuning in!
Drewbie and Catz might not be as good as Kas or White-Ra but saying that it would be good to invite a ''mid GM'' player in order to give them a chance is insulting to both Catz and Drewbie
How is that insulting? Drewbie is currently ranked 84 on NA GM ladder which I would say is around mid-GM level. Why should he be expected to beat a player like Kas who is consistently top10 on EU ladder. Especially if we consider the general consensus that EU > NA (Even Drewbie said so after his vs. EU showmatch series).
Besides, being mid-level in grandmasters still means that you are a very good player. I wasn't trying to insult CatZ or Drewbie. I have just seen a lot of comments asking for more even opponents instead of EU's finest.
On July 06 2011 23:11 BansheeDK wrote: Even though every series was pretty one-sided (Awesome last game though), you did a great job last time Endrey
Definitely looking forward to this.
Is it possible that you could get some less good players this time? I mean Drewbie got completely man-handled last time and i think a lot of people would like to see more even games. I love seeing games with Kas, but he is too good for both Drewbie and CatZ. Is it possible to get a mid-GM player for the next series instead of a top-player?
Either way, I will be tuning in!
Drewbie and Catz might not be as good as Kas or White-Ra but saying that it would be good to invite a ''mid GM'' player in order to give them a chance is insulting to both Catz and Drewbie
How is that insulting? Drewbie is currently ranked 84 on NA GM ladder which I would say is around mid-GM level. Why should he be expected to beat a player like Kas who is consistently top10 on EU ladder. Especially if we consider the general consensus that EU > NA (Even Drewbie said so after his vs. EU showmatch series).
Besides, being mid-level in grandmasters still means that you are a very good player. I wasn't trying to insult CatZ or Drewbie. I have just seen a lot of comments asking for more even opponents instead of EU's finest.
Ladder points =/= how good a player is Slush is ranked 74th, yet he did very well last MLG. Destiny is 48th, does that mean he's a better player than slush? I don't think so
On July 06 2011 23:11 BansheeDK wrote: Even though every series was pretty one-sided (Awesome last game though), you did a great job last time Endrey
Definitely looking forward to this.
Is it possible that you could get some less good players this time? I mean Drewbie got completely man-handled last time and i think a lot of people would like to see more even games. I love seeing games with Kas, but he is too good for both Drewbie and CatZ. Is it possible to get a mid-GM player for the next series instead of a top-player?
Either way, I will be tuning in!
Drewbie and Catz might not be as good as Kas or White-Ra but saying that it would be good to invite a ''mid GM'' player in order to give them a chance is insulting to both Catz and Drewbie
How is that insulting? Drewbie is currently ranked 84 on NA GM ladder which I would say is around mid-GM level. Why should he be expected to beat a player like Kas who is consistently top10 on EU ladder. Especially if we consider the general consensus that EU > NA (Even Drewbie said so after his vs. EU showmatch series).
Besides, being mid-level in grandmasters still means that you are a very good player. I wasn't trying to insult CatZ or Drewbie. I have just seen a lot of comments asking for more even opponents instead of EU's finest.
Ladder points =/= how good a player is Slush is ranked 74th, yet he did very well last MLG. Destiny is 48th, does that mean he's a better player than slush? I don't think so
some ppl play ladder, some dont. dont judge players who do not play ladder on their ladder ranking oO drewbie is ez top 20 NA player.
I have a request for whoever is casting it: don't use the team names to talk about the players after the 1st minute of the game. Think of it as a sort of funday monday )
On July 06 2011 23:11 BansheeDK wrote: Even though every series was pretty one-sided (Awesome last game though), you did a great job last time Endrey
Definitely looking forward to this.
Is it possible that you could get some less good players this time? I mean Drewbie got completely man-handled last time and i think a lot of people would like to see more even games. I love seeing games with Kas, but he is too good for both Drewbie and CatZ. Is it possible to get a mid-GM player for the next series instead of a top-player?
Either way, I will be tuning in!
Drewbie and Catz might not be as good as Kas or White-Ra but saying that it would be good to invite a ''mid GM'' player in order to give them a chance is insulting to both Catz and Drewbie
How is that insulting? Drewbie is currently ranked 84 on NA GM ladder which I would say is around mid-GM level. Why should he be expected to beat a player like Kas who is consistently top10 on EU ladder. Especially if we consider the general consensus that EU > NA (Even Drewbie said so after his vs. EU showmatch series).
Besides, being mid-level in grandmasters still means that you are a very good player. I wasn't trying to insult CatZ or Drewbie. I have just seen a lot of comments asking for more even opponents instead of EU's finest.
Ladder points =/= how good a player is Slush is ranked 74th, yet he did very well last MLG. Destiny is 48th, does that mean he's a better player than slush? I don't think so
True, but would you argue that the series with Drewbie was even remotely close? CatZ is around the same level of play as Drewbie, and while he does have some unusual builds that might catch some off guard, I don't thing he will stand a chance in a bo5 against most top players from Europe. All I'm asking for is some more even games, since the series with Drewbie was a slaughter.
On July 06 2011 23:11 BansheeDK wrote: Even though every series was pretty one-sided (Awesome last game though), you did a great job last time Endrey
Definitely looking forward to this.
Is it possible that you could get some less good players this time? I mean Drewbie got completely man-handled last time and i think a lot of people would like to see more even games. I love seeing games with Kas, but he is too good for both Drewbie and CatZ. Is it possible to get a mid-GM player for the next series instead of a top-player?
Either way, I will be tuning in!
Drewbie and Catz might not be as good as Kas or White-Ra but saying that it would be good to invite a ''mid GM'' player in order to give them a chance is insulting to both Catz and Drewbie
How is that insulting? Drewbie is currently ranked 84 on NA GM ladder which I would say is around mid-GM level. Why should he be expected to beat a player like Kas who is consistently top10 on EU ladder. Especially if we consider the general consensus that EU > NA (Even Drewbie said so after his vs. EU showmatch series).
Besides, being mid-level in grandmasters still means that you are a very good player. I wasn't trying to insult CatZ or Drewbie. I have just seen a lot of comments asking for more even opponents instead of EU's finest.
Ladder points =/= how good a player is Slush is ranked 74th, yet he did very well last MLG. Destiny is 48th, does that mean he's a better player than slush? I don't think so
some ppl play ladder, some dont. dont judge players who do not play ladder on their ladder ranking oO drewbie is ez top 20 NA player.
I actually think Catz has good chances to win not only a few maps, but also a few series... he beat Goody in NASL pretty convincingly, and I consider him quite strong to be honest. Should be a fun event, especially as Catz is always promising interesting matches.
Incoming 6 pool game 3 vs GoOdy to kill his own hatch. Interesting idea but I think that if Catz takes games it will be because of his play-style more than anything.
On July 06 2011 23:53 Badfatpanda wrote: Incoming 6 pool game 3 vs GoOdy to kill his own hatch. Interesting idea but I think that if Catz takes games it will be because of his play-style more than anything.
So if Catz takes games it will be because of how he plays? Seems pretty logical to me. I know what you mean but Catz is not 7 pooling into gold expo into proxxy hatch into whatever else he does, every single game. He can also play a ''normal'' macro game and take games off of many good players
Catz has his own special tactics and is a fun player to watch.
Should be a great series, Thanks to Enrdey for setting this all up the Euro players for participating, and special thanks for Catz for taking on the best of Europe!
I would rather watch a good NA player like Major, battling it out. I really think he is on the same skill level as the best european players. Would definitely be itneresting to see him play them.
On July 07 2011 00:34 Hider wrote: I would rather watch a good NA player like Major, battling it out. I really think he is on the same skill level as the best european players. Would definitely be itneresting to see him play them.
On July 07 2011 00:34 Hider wrote: I would rather watch a good NA player like Major, battling it out. I really think he is on the same skill level as the best european players. Would definitely be itneresting to see him play them.
I am a little disappointed in some of the impolite responses here. A bit rude to pre-judge Catz's skill level for a showmatch series which should have some fun and entertaining games, and which supports a great European Caster.
Perhaps instead of complaining and pre-judging you can simply enjoy the free entertainment, and then comment on the level of play in those matches.
If you really want to see a specific matchup and support e-sports you can contact your favorite players and casters donate some $$ and set something up.
On July 07 2011 00:34 Hider wrote: I would rather watch a good NA player like Major, battling it out. I really think he is on the same skill level as the best european players. Would definitely be itneresting to see him play them.
On July 07 2011 00:34 Hider wrote: I would rather watch a good NA player like Major, battling it out. I really think he is on the same skill level as the best european players. Would definitely be itneresting to see him play them.
Feel free to go and set those up, meanwhile the rest of us will watch these hopefully enjoyable games with a good caster that someone was nice enough to set up.
On July 07 2011 00:34 Hider wrote: I would rather watch a good NA player like Major, battling it out. I really think he is on the same skill level as the best european players. Would definitely be itneresting to see him play them.
Kas vs Major would be nice indeed
hm 3:0 kas
probably, but major has a really good macro, and macro tvt are awesome on good maps (Tal darim ie :p). And i feel like major is one of the best NA T atm.
Should put some lesser known but still solid EU players vs Catz to make it more exciting for the viewers imo. Seems like everyone (myself included) expects Catz to get stomped by the top EU players.
May I suggest VortiX, BlinG, Naugrim, Bischu etc instead of White-Ra, Kas, Dimaga, GoOdy?
Will watch the games regardless but would be cool to see some even matches.
On July 07 2011 00:34 Hider wrote: I would rather watch a good NA player like Major, battling it out. I really think he is on the same skill level as the best european players. Would definitely be itneresting to see him play them.
I am a little disappointed in some of the impolite responses here. A bit rude to pre-judge Catz's skill level for a showmatch series which should have some fun and entertaining games, and which supports a great European Caster.
Perhaps instead of complaining and pre-judging you can simply enjoy the free entertainment, and then comment on the level of play in those matches.
If you really want to see a specific matchup and support e-sports you can contact your favorite players and casters donate some $$ and set something up.
this
people, how about waiting before you do any judging until the first game has started ?
I appreciate the work you put into these showmatch series I don't really believe Catz has a good chance against Kas but whatever, I tuned in when drewbie was raped as well ;P
I would love it if the map pool had like 1 or 2 new maps, iCCup or MotM or whatever. I think it's always interesting to see new maps, but sometimes it's not so interesting to see the last game of a bo5 if one player is outclassed (I'm not saying that Catz sucks, just thinking about the drewbie series). ^^
edit: I hope you don't ever think about giving him a Zerg opponent, I will definitely not tune in for a ZvZ : D
On July 06 2011 23:53 Badfatpanda wrote: Incoming 6 pool game 3 vs GoOdy to kill his own hatch. Interesting idea but I think that if Catz takes games it will be because of his play-style more than anything.
So if Catz takes games it will be because of how he plays? Seems pretty logical to me. I know what you mean but Catz is not 7 pooling into gold expo into proxxy hatch into whatever else he does, every single game. He can also play a ''normal'' macro game and take games off of many good players
Catz showed he had very solid mechanics in his open bracket matches at Columbus, but having not laddered extensively on EU, his original openings would probably fair better against a player like Kas than standard 15 hatch etc.
If they are getting outplayed then that is good for them: they'll get a chance to study those losses and improve from them. Every game counts as a good experience.
Besides it seems that Catz has been playing to much ladder and this kind of showmatches are good to make him play a little more serious.
I'm glad endrey bounced back so well from the drewbie debacle, tho i'm not sure why he would stick with root/coL (i'm sure there is a legitimate reason).
Frankly i'll watch this series just to see Catz get bashed. I actually was a semi-fan of drewbie and was rooting for him in most of those series (the goody thing was meh) but mr. keep the koreans away from me... this should be fun.
Kidding aside, I like how you are able to quickly find a replacement. Both in the first Drewbie vs Whitera series and now this one. It's unfortunate that we don't get to see Kas playing, but props to you for at least getting another player.
Catz attacks into an unbreakable mech army which was already seiged up and gets wrecked. Now goody is marching to each base and taking them out one at a time.
On July 07 2011 05:45 razy wrote: He called down mule to repair the medivac, which died the second mule landed. People see what they want to see... =\
Actually I was just suprised because I think Goody is extremely mannered. Repairing the Medivacs makes sense to me, thx for the explanation.
Well, Goody play doesn't seem to make sense but works out anyway. I can remember several opponents trying counter drop his base as he was sieging their bases, just to run into half a dozen tanks that have been permanently sieged in his base.
On July 07 2011 06:21 Sqq wrote: Goody rolled Catz in 3 straight games, did not expect that :o
Goody was in a slump for a while, but is now showing better game again. He's developed some really cool harass-oriented builds like we saw here.
Panzergeneral hwaiting!
Catz isn't that good, relying a lot on gimmick, but thought he was better than Goody. Wow, was I wrong. Worlds apart, those two. Sick harasses from Goody! Kept Catz on his toes all the time
I thought the matchup would be interesting cuz Catz and the other former root zergs like infestors alot.....and infestors are quite nice against mech....but wow goody totally smashed him....
On July 07 2011 06:41 Morrisson wrote: 3-0 by Goody, really? Last time I saw goody, It was quit bad... did he step up his game?
Goody 3-0'd both Catz and Drewbie, so I think its pretty obvious he's the better player. He did kinda suck in the NASL, might have been lag issues.
Goodys mechanics aren't perfect, but he's still a solid EU terran with great game sense and plenty of success in various smaller tournaments - which already seems to make him better than most NA pros, sadly enough.
On July 07 2011 06:41 Morrisson wrote: 3-0 by Goody, really? Last time I saw goody, It was quit bad... did he step up his game?
Goody never was "quite bad". He has multiple Tournament wins under his belt and his decision making is excellent. His mechanics aren't always the best, but they are actually not as bad as some people like to say. People like to joke about, how bad he is, but it is mainly just joking. He just isn't at the absolut top in europe anymore, but underestimating him would be stupid.
On July 07 2011 06:41 Morrisson wrote: 3-0 by Goody, really? Last time I saw goody, It was quit bad... did he step up his game?
no you just not looked the right way he have 70 apm 5tanks in cube in every fac 5k overmins and if he go stim he have a freelose BUT he is just invincible ! Jaeh its Goody man you just cant beat him, ask Nestea love that guy !
he is that kind of players where satinii gives w.o. in semifinals and drewbie kills his own cc at the start you see him and you know you lost !
On July 07 2011 06:41 Morrisson wrote: 3-0 by Goody, really? Last time I saw goody, It was quit bad... did he step up his game?
Goody 3-0'd both Catz and Drewbie, so I think its pretty obvious he's the better player. He did kinda suck in the NASL, might have been lag issues.
Goodys mechanics aren't perfect, but he's still a solid EU terran with great game sense and plenty of success in various smaller tournaments - which already seems to make him better than most NA pros, sadly enough.
I think Goody was just slumping hard during the time NASL wa played. He won barely any smaller cups during that time either. Lately he has been getting much better again though.
On July 07 2011 06:41 Morrisson wrote: 3-0 by Goody, really? Last time I saw goody, It was quit bad... did he step up his game?
Goody 3-0'd both Catz and Drewbie, so I think its pretty obvious he's the better player. He did kinda suck in the NASL, might have been lag issues.
h.
He had a Tough group. He's always struggled big time vs protoss, since mech overall isn't that good vs protoss, .. and he had a bunch of them in his group with the likes of hasu, mc, ace. He's always been good at tvt, though.
On July 07 2011 18:26 Ocedic wrote: So Europe continues to embarrass NA. Nothing new here.
I seriously wonder which NA player can consistently do well vs top EU players. KiWiKaKi (technically Canada), SeleCT (Korean), and IdrA definitely, but other than that? Sadface.
On July 07 2011 18:26 Ocedic wrote: So Europe continues to embarrass NA. Nothing new here.
I seriously wonder which NA player can consistently do well vs top EU players. KiWiKaKi (technically Canada), SeleCT (Korean), and IdrA definitely, but other than that? Sadface.
On July 07 2011 18:26 Ocedic wrote: So Europe continues to embarrass NA. Nothing new here.
I seriously wonder which NA player can consistently do well vs top EU players. KiWiKaKi (technically Canada), SeleCT (Korean), and IdrA definitely, but other than that? Sadface.
HuK, if he still counts.
Meh, we look at place of training here. HuK is Korean trained now. Idra spent 3 years in Korea. For NA, maybe Major, kiwikaki, dde ?
Lol @ CatZ. Although I'm not worried, not one bit. He has stated he has "what it takes" to compete with dem koreanz np, so naturally he'll do quite well here.
On July 07 2011 18:26 Ocedic wrote: So Europe continues to embarrass NA. Nothing new here.
I don't agree with you, even in NA drewbie and CatZ don't do well in tournaments, guys like White Ra KaS or beastyqt do very well in both online and for some of them offline tournaments.
I just think they are on a different level, it's as simple as that, you can't compare NA and Europe in this case.
If it was Kiwikaki, Idra or Select it would make sense
On July 07 2011 18:26 Ocedic wrote: So Europe continues to embarrass NA. Nothing new here.
I don't agree with you, even in NA drewbie and CatZ don't do well in tournaments, guys like White Ra KaS or beastyqt do very well in both online and for some of them offline tournaments.
I just think they are on a different level, it's as simple as that, you can't compare NA and Europe in this case.
If it was Kiwikaki, Idra or Select it would make sense
So NA has 3 players that they can send out, otherwise it cannot be compared?
On July 07 2011 18:26 Ocedic wrote: So Europe continues to embarrass NA. Nothing new here.
I don't agree with you, even in NA drewbie and CatZ don't do well in tournaments, guys like White Ra KaS or beastyqt do very well in both online and for some of them offline tournaments.
I just think they are on a different level, it's as simple as that, you can't compare NA and Europe in this case.
If it was Kiwikaki, Idra or Select it would make sense
So NA has 3 players that they can send out, otherwise it cannot be compared?
Seems to me that's not a good sign either.
I would add Major, DDE and Sheth, but yeah EU has better players, satisfied now?
On July 07 2011 18:26 Ocedic wrote: So Europe continues to embarrass NA. Nothing new here.
I seriously wonder which NA player can consistently do well vs top EU players. KiWiKaKi (technically Canada), SeleCT (Korean), and IdrA definitely, but other than that? Sadface.
HuK, if he still counts.
Meh, we look at place of training here. HuK is Korean trained now. Idra spent 3 years in Korea. For NA, maybe Major, kiwikaki, dde ?
On July 07 2011 18:26 Ocedic wrote: So Europe continues to embarrass NA. Nothing new here.
I seriously wonder which NA player can consistently do well vs top EU players. KiWiKaKi (technically Canada), SeleCT (Korean), and IdrA definitely, but other than that? Sadface.
HuK, if he still counts.
Meh, we look at place of training here. HuK is Korean trained now. Idra spent 3 years in Korea. For NA, maybe Major, kiwikaki, dde ?
On July 07 2011 18:26 Ocedic wrote: So Europe continues to embarrass NA. Nothing new here.
I seriously wonder which NA player can consistently do well vs top EU players. KiWiKaKi (technically Canada), SeleCT (Korean), and IdrA definitely, but other than that? Sadface.
HuK, if he still counts.
Meh, we look at place of training here. HuK is Korean trained now. Idra spent 3 years in Korea. For NA, maybe Major, kiwikaki, dde ?
dde? no way
kiwikaki and major : yeah i think so
yes i dont stand a chance
let yo results speak for themselves man, no need to respond to uninformed noobs
On July 07 2011 18:26 Ocedic wrote: So Europe continues to embarrass NA. Nothing new here.
I seriously wonder which NA player can consistently do well vs top EU players. KiWiKaKi (technically Canada), SeleCT (Korean), and IdrA definitely, but other than that? Sadface.
HuK, if he still counts.
Meh, we look at place of training here. HuK is Korean trained now. Idra spent 3 years in Korea. For NA, maybe Major, kiwikaki, dde ?
On July 07 2011 18:26 Ocedic wrote: So Europe continues to embarrass NA. Nothing new here.
I don't agree with you, even in NA drewbie and CatZ don't do well in tournaments, guys like White Ra KaS or beastyqt do very well in both online and for some of them offline tournaments.
I just think they are on a different level, it's as simple as that, you can't compare NA and Europe in this case.
If it was Kiwikaki, Idra or Select it would make sense
Either way I find it ironic that Catz talks about keeping those money-stealing Koreans out because of their 'superior infrastructure for gaming' when he can't even beat Europeans.
On July 07 2011 18:26 Ocedic wrote: So Europe continues to embarrass NA. Nothing new here.
I don't agree with you, even in NA drewbie and CatZ don't do well in tournaments, guys like White Ra KaS or beastyqt do very well in both online and for some of them offline tournaments.
I just think they are on a different level, it's as simple as that, you can't compare NA and Europe in this case.
If it was Kiwikaki, Idra or Select it would make sense
Either way I find it ironic that Catz talks about keeping those money-stealing Koreans out because of their 'superior infrastructure for gaming' when he can't even beat Europeans.
Europeans actually have a superior infrastructure for gaming as well. I'm not saying I agree with the idea of keeping anyone out of any event because I'm interested in seeing the top level of play. However, Europeans have been more invested in eSports for a bit longer to my knowledge.
On July 07 2011 18:26 Ocedic wrote: So Europe continues to embarrass NA. Nothing new here.
I seriously wonder which NA player can consistently do well vs top EU players. KiWiKaKi (technically Canada), SeleCT (Korean), and IdrA definitely, but other than that? Sadface.
On July 08 2011 04:10 sob3k wrote: SixJaxMajor could easily compete w/ any EU player right now
I would give DDE a good shot too based on some recent play, still gotta cement his propro position though.
In case you missed it on Endrey's cast Major was first approached he said he would do it but then when the details were gone over (format, opponents etc..) he backed out of it. pulled a major
So all of you saying major is the champion of NA realize he wanted nothing to do with facing the best of Europe.
Perhaps you should give some respect for Catz/Drewbie and any future pros who do this knowing they are going to face the best of the best from Europe in front of thousands of people.
Since when is Major one of the best americans? Liquipedia tells me that he got 16th at MLG from the open bracket, lost 0-3 in the Finals of the TeamSpeak TL Open 16 to HwangSin, and lost 0-3 to Sheth in the SpazCraft Justin.tv Invitational #1 (semis I guess). Obviously thats far from being a bad player but these results alone dont justify the hype for me. Did I miss something importantor is he just hyped because Artosis hyped him at MLG?
On July 07 2011 23:50 Rayjin wrote: A game against Darkforce would be nice. I think they are on the same level.
omg please not! Darkforce stated in a recent podcast that he will play risky coinflip openings in ZvZ only cause it's such a coinflip matchup. I don't want to see games that are decided within the first minutes cause of BO wins/losses. And even if there's not BO win, ZvZ is still horrible mass roach+infestor. Nobody would want to tune in for that.
I still would love to see some other interesting maps in the map pool, maybe support this petition or use another iCCup map. It's fun to see new maps
On July 08 2011 22:41 schben wrote: Since when is Major one of the best americans? Liquipedia tells me that he got 16th at MLG from the open bracket, lost 0-3 in the Finals of the TeamSpeak TL Open 16 to HwangSin, and lost 0-3 to Sheth in the SpazCraft Justin.tv Invitational #1 (semis I guess). Obviously thats far from being a bad player but these results alone dont justify the hype for me. Did I miss something importantor is he just hyped because Artosis hyped him at MLG?
No, people actually look at his gameplay instead of a piece of text on liquipedia and notice a very skilled, well rounded macro player. He hasn't participated in many tournaments yet to be able to get amazing results, although his effort from the open bracket at MLG was pretty strong. He's definitely one of the best in NA.
On July 08 2011 23:03 AxionSteel wrote: No, people actually look at his gameplay instead of a piece of text on liquipedia and notice a very skilled, well rounded macro player. He hasn't participated in many tournaments yet to be able to get amazing results, although his effort from the open bracket at MLG was pretty strong. He's definitely one of the best in NA.
Thanks, I dont follow the american scene so i dont know much about his playstyle
On July 08 2011 23:08 skrzmark wrote: Do they make this tournament to make Europe look good or something?
compared to who? It was always europe>America
and I also don't understand the comment that europe's gaming infrastructure is better than NA's. The key difference between the korean&foreign scene are the teamhouses and the whole practice environement. As far as I know europe has only one Pro-Gaming house in sweden and NA the future EG House( not sure about any other). Europe just has a lot more better Players and only a few NA Players can compete with the top european scene. (Idra, [Huk], Major, Sheth and Kiwikaki, who lacks some recent results though)
gg goody and I don't see much hope for catz if he loses to goody 0:3 against overall better ruopean top players.
Maybe Europeans should be excluded from MLG, as well.
On July 08 2011 04:10 sob3k wrote: SixJaxMajor could easily compete w/ any EU player right now
I would give DDE a good shot too based on some recent play, still gotta cement his propro position though.
In case you missed it on Endrey's cast Major was first approached he said he would do it but then when the details were gone over (format, opponents etc..) he backed out of it. pulled a major
So all of you saying major is the champion of NA realize he wanted nothing to do with facing the best of Europe.
Perhaps you should give some respect for Catz/Drewbie and any future pros who do this knowing they are going to face the best of the best from Europe in front of thousands of people.
I'm not sure I get your train of thought. I could play too and get hammered by European pros. Would I get respect as well? :3
Oh they play on US. Since it's 1 US vs all Europe I assumed it was being played on Europe. But I guess it's not bad to handicap the Europe players just by a little bit :D
Haha Beasty, would you rather play Kas or Happy? =)
Endrey, maybe you try and ask Nani to play one of these? Or players like Nerchio or Stephano (maybe for next series as ZvZ may not be that great and those 2 are ZvZ monsters).
On July 13 2011 22:44 Flwz wrote: Haha Beasty, would you rather play Kas or Happy? =)
Endrey, maybe you try and ask Nani to play one of these? Or players like Nerchio or Stephano (maybe for next series as ZvZ may not be that great and those 2 are ZvZ monsters).
On July 14 2011 03:18 Sententia wrote: Catz has been playing better since he's been crushing so much in the team matches with Drewbie, I think Catz will win 3-2.
Hahaha, it is so funny to follow this on Kas' stream. He keeps saying Catz is "so bad" and laughing about losing the first game, and explaining how Catz asked to play the games in the NA server because he needs an advantage.
On July 14 2011 05:24 legaton wrote: Hahaha, it is so funny to follow this on Kas' stream. He keeps saying Catz is "so bad" and laughing about losing the first game, and explaining how Catz asked to play the games in the NA server because he needs an advantage.
On July 14 2011 05:24 legaton wrote: Hahaha, it is so funny to follow this on Kas' stream. He keeps saying Catz is "so bad" and laughing about losing the first game, and explaining how Catz asked to play the games in the NA server because he needs an advantage.
Wow... that's very rude of him....
That was after Catz did a roach all in. Hardly high level play from Catz.
Not very mannered to bash the other player on his stream but oh well. Let's not be too judgmental He did say now he respects CatZ though, so I guess he doesn't mean any harm.
On July 14 2011 05:24 legaton wrote: Hahaha, it is so funny to follow this on Kas' stream. He keeps saying Catz is "so bad" and laughing about losing the first game, and explaining how Catz asked to play the games in the NA server because he needs an advantage.
I do feel a bit bad for Catz/Drewbie, they're playing really top EU players here. Though I guess their ambition is to be top NA pros themselves, so they have to compare themselves with the other top players.
On July 14 2011 05:24 legaton wrote: Hahaha, it is so funny to follow this on Kas' stream. He keeps saying Catz is "so bad" and laughing about losing the first game, and explaining how Catz asked to play the games in the NA server because he needs an advantage.
Wow... that's very rude of him....
That was after Catz did a roach all in. Hardly high level play from Catz.
Which is relevant how? Just because they play a certain way doesn't mean that it isn't rude to trash talk them...
On July 14 2011 05:42 dani` wrote: "I play so bad and still win, oh my god" - Kas.
Not very mannered to bash the other player on his stream but oh well. Let's not be too judgmental He did say now he respects CatZ though, so I guess he doesn't mean any harm.
... I don't know. That's like saying... "No offense man... but you're really fucking stupid and worthless... I mean I think you are a cool guy but you are really fucking dumb. I still respect you though." It makes it hard to write off the insults with a compliment tagged on the end of them.
And don't get the wrong impression... I'm not getting worked up over this... this isn't the first time we have seen BM, but people should at least just acknowledge he is being BM.
On July 14 2011 05:24 legaton wrote: Hahaha, it is so funny to follow this on Kas' stream. He keeps saying Catz is "so bad" and laughing about losing the first game, and explaining how Catz asked to play the games in the NA server because he needs an advantage.
Wow... that's very rude of him....
That was after Catz did a roach all in. Hardly high level play from Catz.
Which is relevant how? Just because they play a certain way doesn't mean that it isn't rude to trash talk them...
On July 14 2011 05:42 dani` wrote: "I play so bad and still win, oh my god" - Kas.
Not very mannered to bash the other player on his stream but oh well. Let's not be too judgmental He did say now he respects CatZ though, so I guess he doesn't mean any harm.
... I don't know. That's like saying... "No offense man... but you're really fucking stupid and worthless... I mean I think you are a cool guy but you are really fucking dumb. I still respect you though." It makes it hard to write off the insults with a compliment tagged on the end of them.
And don't get the wrong impression... I'm not getting worked up over this... this isn't the first time we have seen BM, but people should at least just acknowledge he is being BM.
Agree, I do think it's BM but at the same time I guess Kas either doesn't understand that he's BM or he simply thinks it's not BM but 'facts'. But yeah, it's BM nonetheless. Right now he's playing music and he's not commentating anymore though, so perhaps he realized it or people mentioned it in his JTV chat, I don't know.
On July 14 2011 05:24 legaton wrote: Hahaha, it is so funny to follow this on Kas' stream. He keeps saying Catz is "so bad" and laughing about losing the first game, and explaining how Catz asked to play the games in the NA server because he needs an advantage.
Wow... that's very rude of him....
That was after Catz did a roach all in. Hardly high level play from Catz.
Which is relevant how? Just because they play a certain way doesn't mean that it isn't rude to trash talk them...
On July 14 2011 05:42 dani` wrote: "I play so bad and still win, oh my god" - Kas.
Not very mannered to bash the other player on his stream but oh well. Let's not be too judgmental He did say now he respects CatZ though, so I guess he doesn't mean any harm.
... I don't know. That's like saying... "No offense man... but you're really fucking stupid and worthless... I mean I think you are a cool guy but you are really fucking dumb. I still respect you though." It makes it hard to write off the insults with a compliment tagged on the end of them.
And don't get the wrong impression... I'm not getting worked up over this... this isn't the first time we have seen BM, but people should at least just acknowledge he is being BM.
He probably isn't being as polite as he should be, but he never called Catz bad, only himself. Kas playing badly is still scary shit.
Kas is blunt, but he spokes the truth, Catz and Drewbie are a level (or two?) below the top european gamers. He could keep his opinions to himself, but he was commentating the games, what else could he say besides he was playing terribly (he was) but that his opponent was even worse? The diplomatic choice is to put some music instead of talking, and that's just what he is doing now. And great taste by the way.
I have to chime in with the "Kas defenders" here. I'm watching both streams at the same time, and at no point did he say "Catz is bad". He mentioned the NA/lag issue shortly in the beginning, but pretty much all other comments were about himself playing badly, and not Catz doing so.
Especially the second set, viewed from Kas' perspective, was played incredibly sloppy - yet he managed to take the win. Nothing wrong with commenting on that, maybe even with a bit of irony.
Also English is not exactly Kas' native language so he may not always be able to word stuff diplomatically. It's easier to say what you think without attention to the wording. He's his own biggest critic, I doubt he cares much about catZ.
I don't think there should be much drama about this. He's just playing a showmatch and doing a bit of show.
i think its good experience for Catz, EU Terrans are a step up compared to NA Terrans imho, he can use this as a platform to gauge how far he is progressing in his ability
On July 14 2011 05:24 legaton wrote: Hahaha, it is so funny to follow this on Kas' stream. He keeps saying Catz is "so bad" and laughing about losing the first game, and explaining how Catz asked to play the games in the NA server because he needs an advantage.
Wow... that's very rude of him....
That was after Catz did a roach all in. Hardly high level play from Catz.
Which is relevant how? Just because they play a certain way doesn't mean that it isn't rude to trash talk them...
It's relevant as Kas was just making a comment on Catz play. He feels a roach all in is bad play.
On July 14 2011 05:24 legaton wrote: Hahaha, it is so funny to follow this on Kas' stream. He keeps saying Catz is "so bad" and laughing about losing the first game, and explaining how Catz asked to play the games in the NA server because he needs an advantage.
Wow... that's very rude of him....
That was after Catz did a roach all in. Hardly high level play from Catz.
Which is relevant how? Just because they play a certain way doesn't mean that it isn't rude to trash talk them...
It's relevant as Kas was just making a comment on Catz play. He feels a roach all in is bad play.
Well the quote above says "He keeps saying Catz is 'so bad'" and the point I was making is that if someone beats you in a certain way and you call them bad... that's BM. I am not saying he is a terrible person... I'm not saying that he shouldn't be allowed to do that or should be banned from the show match, but if he is calling his opponent bad on his stream....... that's BM. It just is.
On July 14 2011 05:57 Megatronn wrote: It's ok, Kas isn't exactly the best in the European scene. Everyone has to hate on someone I guess?
Can't we all just get along?
There aren't any heated arguments going on here. We are getting along; just discussing the streams a bit.
On July 14 2011 05:24 legaton wrote: Hahaha, it is so funny to follow this on Kas' stream. He keeps saying Catz is "so bad" and laughing about losing the first game, and explaining how Catz asked to play the games in the NA server because he needs an advantage.
Wow... that's very rude of him....
That was after Catz did a roach all in. Hardly high level play from Catz.
Which is relevant how? Just because they play a certain way doesn't mean that it isn't rude to trash talk them...
It's relevant as Kas was just making a comment on Catz play. He feels a roach all in is bad play.
Well the quote above says "He keeps saying Catz is 'so bad'" and the point I was making is that if someone beats you in a certain way and you call them bad... that's BM. I am not saying he is a terrible person... I'm not saying that he shouldn't be allowed to do that or should be banned from the show match, but if he is calling his opponent bad on his stream....... that's BM. It just is.
On July 14 2011 05:24 legaton wrote: Hahaha, it is so funny to follow this on Kas' stream. He keeps saying Catz is "so bad" and laughing about losing the first game, and explaining how Catz asked to play the games in the NA server because he needs an advantage.
Wow... that's very rude of him....
That was after Catz did a roach all in. Hardly high level play from Catz.
Which is relevant how? Just because they play a certain way doesn't mean that it isn't rude to trash talk them...
It's relevant as Kas was just making a comment on Catz play. He feels a roach all in is bad play.
Well the quote above says "He keeps saying Catz is 'so bad'" and the point I was making is that if someone beats you in a certain way and you call them bad... that's BM. I am not saying he is a terrible person... I'm not saying that he shouldn't be allowed to do that or should be banned from the show match, but if he is calling his opponent bad on his stream....... that's BM. It just is.
On July 14 2011 05:57 Megatronn wrote: It's ok, Kas isn't exactly the best in the European scene. Everyone has to hate on someone I guess?
Can't we all just get along?
There aren't any heated arguments going on here. We are getting along; just discussing the streams a bit.
The guy just lost to a roach all in rush.. He was probably slightly annoyed. He can make any comments he likes on his own personal stream I would say.
Wow I am amazed how you keep missing the points, even when I spell it out. I already said I am not saying that he shouldn't be allowed to make the comments. Let me requote you, and then myself.
On July 14 2011 05:24 legaton wrote: Hahaha, it is so funny to follow this on Kas' stream. He keeps saying Catz is "so bad" and laughing about losing the first game, and explaining how Catz asked to play the games in the NA server because he needs an advantage.
Wow... that's very rude of him....
That was after Catz did a roach all in. Hardly high level play from Catz.
Which is relevant how? Just because they play a certain way doesn't mean that it isn't rude to trash talk them...
It's relevant as Kas was just making a comment on Catz play. He feels a roach all in is bad play.
Well the quote above says "He keeps saying Catz is 'so bad'" and the point I was making is that if someone beats you in a certain way and you call them bad... that's BM. I am not saying he is a terrible person... I'm not saying that he shouldn't be allowed to do that or should be banned from the show match, but if he is calling his opponent bad on his stream....... that's BM. It just is.
On July 14 2011 05:57 Megatronn wrote: It's ok, Kas isn't exactly the best in the European scene. Everyone has to hate on someone I guess?
Can't we all just get along?
There aren't any heated arguments going on here. We are getting along; just discussing the streams a bit.
He can make any comments he likes on his own personal stream I would say.
On July 14 2011 05:24 legaton wrote: Hahaha, it is so funny to follow this on Kas' stream. He keeps saying Catz is "so bad" and laughing about losing the first game, and explaining how Catz asked to play the games in the NA server because he needs an advantage.
Wow... that's very rude of him....
That was after Catz did a roach all in. Hardly high level play from Catz.
Which is relevant how? Just because they play a certain way doesn't mean that it isn't rude to trash talk them...
It's relevant as Kas was just making a comment on Catz play. He feels a roach all in is bad play.
I am not saying he is a terrible person... I'm not saying that he shouldn't be allowed to do that or should be banned from the show match, but if he is calling his opponent bad on his stream....... that's BM. It just is.
So once again... he is not some evil person I am hating on... and I am not saying he shouldn't be allowed to say what he wants on his stream.
(about mapchoice to Endrey) CatZ: if it's w/e I pick Steppes of War
I think he was kinda serious about it Anyway, now he picks Dual Sight, probably because it's the other 2 player map apart from Crossfire. I imagine he's going to rush again T_T
I dont understand people saying that Kas didnt say Catz is bad. He just did it again and said Catz wouldnt be able to hold up against most 2nd tier european zergs like naugrim and he named a few others. He also said Catz only probabily wins by doing roach rush or cheesey things. For people that missed it, it is in the interval after game 3.
On July 14 2011 05:24 legaton wrote: Hahaha, it is so funny to follow this on Kas' stream. He keeps saying Catz is "so bad" and laughing about losing the first game, and explaining how Catz asked to play the games in the NA server because he needs an advantage.
Wow... that's very rude of him....
That was after Catz did a roach all in. Hardly high level play from Catz.
Which is relevant how? Just because they play a certain way doesn't mean that it isn't rude to trash talk them...
It's relevant as Kas was just making a comment on Catz play. He feels a roach all in is bad play.
Well the quote above says "He keeps saying Catz is 'so bad'" and the point I was making is that if someone beats you in a certain way and you call them bad... that's BM. I am not saying he is a terrible person... I'm not saying that he shouldn't be allowed to do that or should be banned from the show match, but if he is calling his opponent bad on his stream....... that's BM. It just is.
On July 14 2011 05:57 Megatronn wrote: It's ok, Kas isn't exactly the best in the European scene. Everyone has to hate on someone I guess?
Can't we all just get along?
There aren't any heated arguments going on here. We are getting along; just discussing the streams a bit.
The guy just lost to a roach all in rush.. He was probably slightly annoyed. He can make any comments he likes on his own personal stream I would say.
Wow I am amazed how you keep missing the points, even when I spell it out. I already said I am not saying that he shouldn't be allowed to make the comments. Let me requote you, and then myself.
On July 14 2011 05:24 legaton wrote: Hahaha, it is so funny to follow this on Kas' stream. He keeps saying Catz is "so bad" and laughing about losing the first game, and explaining how Catz asked to play the games in the NA server because he needs an advantage.
Wow... that's very rude of him....
That was after Catz did a roach all in. Hardly high level play from Catz.
Which is relevant how? Just because they play a certain way doesn't mean that it isn't rude to trash talk them...
It's relevant as Kas was just making a comment on Catz play. He feels a roach all in is bad play.
Well the quote above says "He keeps saying Catz is 'so bad'" and the point I was making is that if someone beats you in a certain way and you call them bad... that's BM. I am not saying he is a terrible person... I'm not saying that he shouldn't be allowed to do that or should be banned from the show match, but if he is calling his opponent bad on his stream....... that's BM. It just is.
On July 14 2011 05:57 Megatronn wrote: It's ok, Kas isn't exactly the best in the European scene. Everyone has to hate on someone I guess?
Can't we all just get along?
There aren't any heated arguments going on here. We are getting along; just discussing the streams a bit.
He can make any comments he likes on his own personal stream I would say.
On July 14 2011 05:24 legaton wrote: Hahaha, it is so funny to follow this on Kas' stream. He keeps saying Catz is "so bad" and laughing about losing the first game, and explaining how Catz asked to play the games in the NA server because he needs an advantage.
Wow... that's very rude of him....
That was after Catz did a roach all in. Hardly high level play from Catz.
Which is relevant how? Just because they play a certain way doesn't mean that it isn't rude to trash talk them...
It's relevant as Kas was just making a comment on Catz play. He feels a roach all in is bad play.
I am not saying he is a terrible person... I'm not saying that he shouldn't be allowed to do that or should be banned from the show match, but if he is calling his opponent bad on his stream....... that's BM. It just is.
So once again... he is not some evil person I am hating on... and I am not saying he shouldn't be allowed to say what he wants on his stream.
I didn't really read your post, all I saw was " banned from the show match" and commented on that.
On July 14 2011 06:13 BjC wrote: I dont understand people saying that Kas didnt say Catz is bad. He just did it again and said Catz wouldnt be able to hold up against most 2nd tier european zergs like naugrim and he named a few others. He also said Catz only probabily wins by doing roach rush or cheesey things. For people that missed it, it is in the interval after game 3.
Overall in reading this and the Drewbie thread my view of Euro posters has changed significantly.
I always thought the production small minded xenophobic BM filled troll posters was primarily an American phenomena. Apparently European posters poses the same capacity and, like the adoration of David Hasselhoff, have adopted this sad bit of American "culture" as well.
Players are people not machines they have good days and bad days. They go through up cycles and down cycles SC2 is a hard game to master and as a result people go through rough losing streaks. Jinro for example was the best of the best for a while and now is back to the drawing board with recent struggles. Does that mean he is a horrible player? (Obviously not)
So in the future perhaps people can attempt to recognize the difference between criticizing specific game play and criticizing a player? One is constructive the other is not
On July 14 2011 06:13 BjC wrote: I dont understand people saying that Kas didnt say Catz is bad. He just did it again and said Catz wouldnt be able to hold up against most 2nd tier european zergs like naugrim and he named a few others. He also said Catz only probabily wins by doing roach rush or cheesey things. For people that missed it, it is in the interval after game 3.
well he's right...
*sigh* It is depressing to see people's reading comprehension in this thread.
The person you quoted didn't say it was or wasn't true, he was saying that people were denying the fact that Kas called Catz bad, when he did in fact call him bad.
Whether it is true or not is irrelevant, and all you did was add your own negative opinion for no reason.
Kas got a lot of exp playin ladder in europe, and he can obviously compare players, bcoz in fact, he had got no us acc and never played NA players on na ladder i guess, so he was disappointed by the way na player (CatZ) started to play vs him in showmatch.
I don't wanna defend him, but Kas is calling facts: "i played bad", "still i managed to win", he was disappointed in CatZ and started to be bored, just it
On July 14 2011 06:24 mechavoc wrote: Overall in reading this and the Drewbie thread my view of Euro posters has changed significantly.
I always thought the production small minded xenophobic BM filled troll posters was primarily an American phenomena. Apparently European posters poses the same capacity and, like the adoration of David Hasselhoff, have adopted this sad bit of American "culture" as well.
Players are people not machines they have good days and bad days. They go through up cycles and down cycles SC2 is a hard game to master and as a result people go through rough losing streaks. Jinro for example was the best of the best for a while and now is back to the drawing board with recent struggles. Does that mean he is a horrible player? (Obviously not)
So in the future perhaps people can attempt to recognize the difference between criticizing specific game play and criticizing a player? One is constructive the other is not
If it was Idra or Huk taking on the best european players the reactions would be different. But here Catz and Drewbie just took players far above their caliber.
On July 14 2011 06:24 mechavoc wrote: Overall in reading this and the Drewbie thread my view of Euro posters has changed significantly.
I always thought the production small minded xenophobic BM filled troll posters was primarily an American phenomena. Apparently European posters poses the same capacity and, like the adoration of David Hasselhoff, have adopted this sad bit of American "culture" as well.
Players are people not machines they have good days and bad days. They go through up cycles and down cycles SC2 is a hard game to master and as a result people go through rough losing streaks. Jinro for example was the best of the best for a while and now is back to the drawing board with recent struggles. Does that mean he is a horrible player? (Obviously not)
So in the future perhaps people can attempt to recognize the difference between criticizing specific game play and criticizing a player? One is constructive the other is not
It isn't cultural by any means, flamers, trolls and idiots exist everywhere, unfortunately. =/
Good play by Kas, though, he's on a different level than Catz in skill in my opinion, he's a pretty great player, and I wish I could say the same about Catz.
On July 14 2011 06:25 Chicane wrote: *sigh* It is depressing to see people's reading comprehension in this thread.
The person you quoted didn't say it was or wasn't true, he was saying that people were denying the fact that Kas called Catz bad, when he did in fact call him bad.
Whether it is true or not is irrelevant, and all you did was add your own negative opinion for no reason.
I honestly find it good that you arguing in such a mannered way against the negative comments. I didn´t watch Kas stream and can not comment what he said but you have to say that catz is not 1st level zerg in NA. The only 2 imo are Sheth and Idra, perhaps Machine but I must say I´m not that familiar with NA zergs. So if Kas compares him to 2nd level Zergs in EU you must respect that, and I don´t think that´s an insult. But even if I commented now on that I think we should just enjoy the games, of course "EU pride" comes in play but I have to say too that all the comments in so many thread that EU ahead of NA pisses me of...
On July 14 2011 07:05 Kiarip wrote: lmao. all this time Kas is just wondering on his stream why Catz doesn't want to play a good game for the viewers, because it's a SHOWmatch.
The discussion about skill and manner aside, I have to give props to Kas for wanting to show entertaining games more than wanting to win. He's been saying so since the very first set and has tried in most games (BC rush, mech build suggested by stream viewers etc.). Well played, deserved win.
On July 14 2011 07:10 MrCon wrote: Well, Endrey choosing steppes when Kas allow him to pick any map is also a dumb move for the players and the viewers.
On July 14 2011 06:24 mechavoc wrote: Overall in reading this and the Drewbie thread my view of Euro posters has changed significantly.
I always thought the production small minded xenophobic BM filled troll posters was primarily an American phenomena. Apparently European posters poses the same capacity and, like the adoration of David Hasselhoff, have adopted this sad bit of American "culture" as well.
Players are people not machines they have good days and bad days. They go through up cycles and down cycles SC2 is a hard game to master and as a result people go through rough losing streaks. Jinro for example was the best of the best for a while and now is back to the drawing board with recent struggles. Does that mean he is a horrible player? (Obviously not)
So in the future perhaps people can attempt to recognize the difference between criticizing specific game play and criticizing a player? One is constructive the other is not
That's a bit silly. You'll find the same idiots everywhere in the world. There might be a slight difference in how they express their stupid opinions (American ones like to wave flags and talk about freedom, Italian ones are plain ol' racists and the Germans just seem to want some lebensraum) but they're basically the same.
I imagine most Europeans find it quite cringeworthy to read these EU»US comments. I know I do.
On July 14 2011 07:10 MrCon wrote: Well, Endrey choosing steppes when Kas allow him to pick any map is also a dumb move for the players and the viewers.
afaik Catz picked steppes not Endrey? but I could be wrong
Catz, although is a known player and a respected figure in the community might not be the best representation of "America". I don't know why people turn this into an US vs EU thing like in the drewbie thread. Drewbie was simply outclassed and if Catz wants to play vs top in EU, he will sadly lose more then win =\.
On July 14 2011 06:24 mechavoc wrote: Overall in reading this and the Drewbie thread my view of Euro posters has changed significantly.
I always thought the production small minded xenophobic BM filled troll posters was primarily an American phenomena. Apparently European posters poses the same capacity and, like the adoration of David Hasselhoff, have adopted this sad bit of American "culture" as well.
Players are people not machines they have good days and bad days. They go through up cycles and down cycles SC2 is a hard game to master and as a result people go through rough losing streaks. Jinro for example was the best of the best for a while and now is back to the drawing board with recent struggles. Does that mean he is a horrible player? (Obviously not)
So in the future perhaps people can attempt to recognize the difference between criticizing specific game play and criticizing a player? One is constructive the other is not
That's a bit silly. You'll find the same idiots everywhere in the world. There might be a slight difference in how they express their stupid opinions (American ones like to wave flags and talk about freedom, Italian ones are plain ol' racists and the Germans just seem to want some lebensraum) but they're basically the same.
I imagine most Europeans find it quite cringeworthy to read these EU»US comments. I know I do.
On July 14 2011 06:24 mechavoc wrote: Overall in reading this and the Drewbie thread my view of Euro posters has changed significantly.
I always thought the production small minded xenophobic BM filled troll posters was primarily an American phenomena. Apparently European posters poses the same capacity and, like the adoration of David Hasselhoff, have adopted this sad bit of American "culture" as well.
Players are people not machines they have good days and bad days. They go through up cycles and down cycles SC2 is a hard game to master and as a result people go through rough losing streaks. Jinro for example was the best of the best for a while and now is back to the drawing board with recent struggles. Does that mean he is a horrible player? (Obviously not)
So in the future perhaps people can attempt to recognize the difference between criticizing specific game play and criticizing a player? One is constructive the other is not
Xenophobia existed in Europe thousands of years before America was even discovered. Also, your opinion is automatically shit for not liking David Hasselhoff in "Hooked on a Feeling".
On July 14 2011 06:24 mechavoc wrote: Overall in reading this and the Drewbie thread my view of Euro posters has changed significantly.
I always thought the production small minded xenophobic BM filled troll posters was primarily an American phenomena. Apparently European posters poses the same capacity and, like the adoration of David Hasselhoff, have adopted this sad bit of American "culture" as well.
Players are people not machines they have good days and bad days. They go through up cycles and down cycles SC2 is a hard game to master and as a result people go through rough losing streaks. Jinro for example was the best of the best for a while and now is back to the drawing board with recent struggles. Does that mean he is a horrible player? (Obviously not)
So in the future perhaps people can attempt to recognize the difference between criticizing specific game play and criticizing a player? One is constructive the other is not
....
I imagine most Europeans find it quite cringeworthy to read these EU»US comments. I know I do.
I do aswell. Everytime I read a topic about it in any kind of forum, there's always trolling and hating.
Many of the replies in this thread is worthless. It's not about which continent is better, it's a couple of showmatches for your entertainment. Let CatZ play against a few top EU players and enjoy, discuss the games etc. No need for the negativity.
On July 14 2011 07:10 MrCon wrote: Well, Endrey choosing steppes when Kas allow him to pick any map is also a dumb move for the players and the viewers.
afaik Catz picked steppes not Endrey? but I could be wrong
In the chat Endrey said "You asked me to pick any map, so assume the consequences :p"
On July 06 2011 23:11 BansheeDK wrote: Even though every series was pretty one-sided (Awesome last game though), you did a great job last time Endrey
Definitely looking forward to this.
Is it possible that you could get some less good players this time? I mean Drewbie got completely man-handled last time and i think a lot of people would like to see more even games. I love seeing games with Kas, but he is too good for both Drewbie and CatZ. Is it possible to get a mid-GM player for the next series instead of a top-player?
Either way, I will be tuning in!
Drewbie and Catz might not be as good as Kas or White-Ra but saying that it would be good to invite a ''mid GM'' player in order to give them a chance is insulting to both Catz and Drewbie
How is that insulting? Drewbie is currently ranked 84 on NA GM ladder which I would say is around mid-GM level. Why should he be expected to beat a player like Kas who is consistently top10 on EU ladder. Especially if we consider the general consensus that EU > NA (Even Drewbie said so after his vs. EU showmatch series).
Besides, being mid-level in grandmasters still means that you are a very good player. I wasn't trying to insult CatZ or Drewbie. I have just seen a lot of comments asking for more even opponents instead of EU's finest.
Ladder points =/= how good a player is Slush is ranked 74th, yet he did very well last MLG. Destiny is 48th, does that mean he's a better player than slush? I don't think so
some ppl play ladder, some dont. dont judge players who do not play ladder on their ladder ranking oO drewbie is ez top 20 NA player.
On July 06 2011 23:11 BansheeDK wrote: Even though every series was pretty one-sided (Awesome last game though), you did a great job last time Endrey
Definitely looking forward to this.
Is it possible that you could get some less good players this time? I mean Drewbie got completely man-handled last time and i think a lot of people would like to see more even games. I love seeing games with Kas, but he is too good for both Drewbie and CatZ. Is it possible to get a mid-GM player for the next series instead of a top-player?
Either way, I will be tuning in!
Drewbie and Catz might not be as good as Kas or White-Ra but saying that it would be good to invite a ''mid GM'' player in order to give them a chance is insulting to both Catz and Drewbie
How is that insulting? Drewbie is currently ranked 84 on NA GM ladder which I would say is around mid-GM level. Why should he be expected to beat a player like Kas who is consistently top10 on EU ladder. Especially if we consider the general consensus that EU > NA (Even Drewbie said so after his vs. EU showmatch series).
Besides, being mid-level in grandmasters still means that you are a very good player. I wasn't trying to insult CatZ or Drewbie. I have just seen a lot of comments asking for more even opponents instead of EU's finest.
Ladder points =/= how good a player is Slush is ranked 74th, yet he did very well last MLG. Destiny is 48th, does that mean he's a better player than slush? I don't think so
some ppl play ladder, some dont. dont judge players who do not play ladder on their ladder ranking oO drewbie is ez top 20 NA player.
On July 06 2011 23:11 BansheeDK wrote: Even though every series was pretty one-sided (Awesome last game though), you did a great job last time Endrey
Definitely looking forward to this.
Is it possible that you could get some less good players this time? I mean Drewbie got completely man-handled last time and i think a lot of people would like to see more even games. I love seeing games with Kas, but he is too good for both Drewbie and CatZ. Is it possible to get a mid-GM player for the next series instead of a top-player?
Either way, I will be tuning in!
Drewbie and Catz might not be as good as Kas or White-Ra but saying that it would be good to invite a ''mid GM'' player in order to give them a chance is insulting to both Catz and Drewbie
How is that insulting? Drewbie is currently ranked 84 on NA GM ladder which I would say is around mid-GM level. Why should he be expected to beat a player like Kas who is consistently top10 on EU ladder. Especially if we consider the general consensus that EU > NA (Even Drewbie said so after his vs. EU showmatch series).
Besides, being mid-level in grandmasters still means that you are a very good player. I wasn't trying to insult CatZ or Drewbie. I have just seen a lot of comments asking for more even opponents instead of EU's finest.
Ladder points =/= how good a player is Slush is ranked 74th, yet he did very well last MLG. Destiny is 48th, does that mean he's a better player than slush? I don't think so
some ppl play ladder, some dont. dont judge players who do not play ladder on their ladder ranking oO drewbie is ez top 20 NA player.
On July 14 2011 06:24 mechavoc wrote: Overall in reading this and the Drewbie thread my view of Euro posters has changed significantly.
I always thought the production small minded xenophobic BM filled troll posters was primarily an American phenomena. Apparently European posters poses the same capacity and, like the adoration of David Hasselhoff, have adopted this sad bit of American "culture" as well.
Players are people not machines they have good days and bad days. They go through up cycles and down cycles SC2 is a hard game to master and as a result people go through rough losing streaks. Jinro for example was the best of the best for a while and now is back to the drawing board with recent struggles. Does that mean he is a horrible player? (Obviously not)
So in the future perhaps people can attempt to recognize the difference between criticizing specific game play and criticizing a player? One is constructive the other is not
....
I imagine most Europeans find it quite cringeworthy to read these EU»US comments. I know I do.
I do aswell. Everytime I read a topic about it in any kind of forum, there's always trolling and hating.
Many of the replies in this thread is worthless. It's not about which continent is better, it's a couple of showmatches for your entertainment. Let CatZ play against a few top EU players and enjoy, discuss the games etc. No need for the negativity.
i agree, its the most useless discussion ever EU vs NA. It's been like that in all games i assume (personally experienced it a lot in CS, but MOST in WoW) and its retarded lol. Especially if they start bringing in work situations and social service etc...
Can't we just enjoy some fun games, which both players tried to bring to the audience, instead of bitching just for the sake of bitching.
On July 14 2011 06:24 mechavoc wrote: Overall in reading this and the Drewbie thread my view of Euro posters has changed significantly.
I always thought the production small minded xenophobic BM filled troll posters was primarily an American phenomena. Apparently European posters poses the same capacity and, like the adoration of David Hasselhoff, have adopted this sad bit of American "culture" as well.
Players are people not machines they have good days and bad days. They go through up cycles and down cycles SC2 is a hard game to master and as a result people go through rough losing streaks. Jinro for example was the best of the best for a while and now is back to the drawing board with recent struggles. Does that mean he is a horrible player? (Obviously not)
So in the future perhaps people can attempt to recognize the difference between criticizing specific game play and criticizing a player? One is constructive the other is not
....
I imagine most Europeans find it quite cringeworthy to read these EU»US comments. I know I do.
I do aswell. Everytime I read a topic about it in any kind of forum, there's always trolling and hating.
Many of the replies in this thread is worthless. It's not about which continent is better, it's a couple of showmatches for your entertainment. Let CatZ play against a few top EU players and enjoy, discuss the games etc. No need for the negativity.
i agree, its the most useless discussion ever EU vs NA. It's been like that in all games i assume (personally experienced it a lot in CS, but MOST in WoW) and its retarded lol. Especially if they start bringing in work situations and social service etc...
Can't we just enjoy some fun games, which both players tried to bring to the audience, instead of bitching just for the sake of bitching.
I cant help but think that if any of the series with drewbie or catz was even close then people would be embracing the server pride and loving the games as it brings more enoyment to them. As in the Korea vs the world event in the GSL.
It just seems that because European players are stomping them, the American posters want to shame us for beeing proud that our team is winning. There is nothing wrong with it and if it was someone like Sheth vs Europe and the games were close in skill, then im sure that both sides would be supporting there team loudly and unashamed.
Korea is the top dog as far as players skill comes in. Europe is in front of NA also, It seems that Americans dont want to admit this though and fight or try and belittle posters from europe that say it because really they are ashamed.
Recent NASL - 9 Koreans - 5 Europeans - 1 American ( Strealok was replaced by Alive, so should of been 8 Kor - 6 Euro - 1 NA ) TSL3 - Top 4 finishers - ALL Europe.
Americans Accept that Korea is ahead of them and dont mind when Korean fans show there national pride. Why do they not accept that Europe is also in front of them and why do they get upset when we show our pride also? double standards?
On July 14 2011 18:24 BjC wrote: I cant help but think that if any of the series with drewbie or catz was even close then people would be embracing the server pride and loving the games as it brings more enoyment to them. As in the Korea vs the world event in the GSL.
It just seems that because European players are stomping them, the American posters want to shame us for beeing proud that our team is winning. There is nothing wrong with it and if it was someone like Sheth vs Europe and the games were close in skill, then im sure that both sides would be supporting there team loudly and unashamed.
Korea is the top dog as far as players skill comes in. Europe is in front of NA also, It seems that Americans dont want to admit this though and fight or try and belittle posters from europe that say it because really they are ashamed.
Recent NASL - 9 Koreans - 5 Europeans - 1 American ( Strealok was replaced by Alive, so should of been 8 Kor - 6 Euro - 1 NA ) TSL3 - Top 4 finishers - ALL Europe.
Americans Accept that Korea is ahead of them and dont mind when Korean fans show there national pride. Why do they not accept that Europe is also in front of them and why do they get upset when we show our pride also? double standards?
Because, if NA admit EU is better, the are also admitting they have the weakest pool of players out of anyone. In reality, HuK and IdrA are the only players on the same level as the top EU players. SeleCT is Korean in my eyes.
Americans Accept that Korea is ahead of them and dont mind when Korean fans show there national pride. Why do they not accept that Europe is also in front of them and why do they get upset when we show our pride also? double standards?
edit: removed double quote
Perhaps the Korean fans know how to win and still remain classy.
There is a not so subtle but important difference between saying my favorite players are great and your favorite players are garbage.
For example obviously I'm a fan of Catz, but I'm still able to watch the first match of the series, enjoy and admired the build and strategy that Goody used on that map. That fast timing of the 8 marines hellion medivac was a thing of beauty and dominated the game. It was great build perfectly executed.
Maybe my brain is wired differently then other posters as my first thought from that match was nice play by goody, not catz is horrible.
The majority of discussion from these showmatch series is NA sucks players suck etc...
And that is just silly. All of the pro players are good Korea, EU, NA they are the top <1% and in any given match they can beat anyone. (Obviously the top elite are much more consistent in their wins)
So again it is my hope that the conversation can focus on the game play and what people do right and wrong in the matches instead of my region/player > your region/player.
A lot of europeans are just pissed of that american players get more attention then top europeans when they can't even beat second tier europeans. I don't say that it is right or most think like that but that is what i heard a lot.
On July 15 2011 02:16 Influ wrote: A lot of europeans are just pissed of that american players get more attention then top europeans when they can't even beat second tier europeans. I don't say that it is right or most think like that but that is what i heard a lot.
It's not true, it was in the time when you heard the term euro trash a lot. And on stotg they were talking about how uncreative eu players were. Also about Kas winning versus Nada should have been the biggest upset ever, but that was a long time ago.
I think now a lot of people ego's just shine, because they feel continent or country pride. I am pretty sure that if NA was dominating EU, EU would be bashed much more.
I think on the end people stay people and we just need to accept that (doesn't of course mean that i accept bad behaviour).
On July 15 2011 02:16 Influ wrote: A lot of europeans are just pissed of that american players get more attention then top europeans when they can't even beat second tier europeans. I don't say that it is right or most think like that but that is what i heard a lot.
I'd agree that American players get more attention from fans than European players, but I think there's something to that. American players are creating shows and interacting with fans a lot, but I see nothing like that from EU players. People like Mr. Bitter, Catz, and Team vVv are all creating shows to connect to people, so I see stuff from them a lot more often. I know if White-Ra made a show, or any scheduled gaming time that I could watch during the day, I would watch it every time it was on.
I think the problem isn't that American players are getting more attention that European players, it's that European players aren't as active with connecting with fans. That's just my opinion, from someone in NA. I know leagues like NASL restream their shows for good EU times, but I don't see much coming the other way. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's just one thing I've been noticing lately.
On July 14 2011 18:24 BjC wrote: I cant help but think that if any of the series with drewbie or catz was even close then people would be embracing the server pride and loving the games as it brings more enoyment to them. As in the Korea vs the world event in the GSL.
It just seems that because European players are stomping them, the American posters want to shame us for beeing proud that our team is winning. There is nothing wrong with it and if it was someone like Sheth vs Europe and the games were close in skill, then im sure that both sides would be supporting there team loudly and unashamed.
Korea is the top dog as far as players skill comes in. Europe is in front of NA also, It seems that Americans dont want to admit this though and fight or try and belittle posters from europe that say it because really they are ashamed.
Recent NASL - 9 Koreans - 5 Europeans - 1 American ( Strealok was replaced by Alive, so should of been 8 Kor - 6 Euro - 1 NA ) TSL3 - Top 4 finishers - ALL Europe.
Americans Accept that Korea is ahead of them and dont mind when Korean fans show there national pride. Why do they not accept that Europe is also in front of them and why do they get upset when we show our pride also? double standards?
Meh... personally I don't care too much about nationality, and I am often very unimpressed that someone is overly proud to have been born in a country closer to a specific player who wins... it actually isn't an accomplishment at all... and that has always been my stance. I don't mind people cheering for Europe, but when people use it as leverage to talk down on other people simply because of where they were born, it is an absolute fucking joke.
I find myself cheering for Europeans about half the time against NA players. I care about the player's personality and gameplay much more than where they were born, though I admit I often like to cheer for the underdog when I don't have much of a preference which is more often than not the NA player when compared to EU since Europe does have better players.
Also... you really don't have to generalize all North Americans... I see countless NA posters say the EU server is better, and some pro players say the same. In fact Drewbie said it in the "Drewbie vs Europe Showmatch" thread. Just don't generalize so much. It makes your points seem weaker when it is so easy to dispel them by saying "wait... I see plenty of NA players say EU is better than NA" for example.
On July 15 2011 02:16 Influ wrote: A lot of europeans are just pissed of that american players get more attention then top europeans when they can't even beat second tier europeans. I don't say that it is right or most think like that but that is what i heard a lot.
I'd agree that American players get more attention from fans than European players, but I think there's something to that. American players are creating shows and interacting with fans a lot, but I see nothing like that from EU players. People like Mr. Bitter, Catz, and Team vVv are all creating shows to connect to people, so I see stuff from them a lot more often. I know if White-Ra made a show, or any scheduled gaming time that I could watch during the day, I would watch it every time it was on.
I think the problem isn't that American players are getting more attention that European players, it's that European players aren't as active with connecting with fans. That's just my opinion, from someone in NA. I know leagues like NASL restream their shows for good EU times, but I don't see much coming the other way. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's just one thing I've been noticing lately.
The more you do beside practicing make you play worse. That's the main reason why at the start of CS2, everyone looked pretty equal, but with time KR > UE > NA. Because it's just koreans practice more than europeans who practice more than americans. Not to forget that almost every pro / semi pro who coach are americans. ( give me a ue pro who do that, they ain't any )
And there's the fact that europeans pro fight themselves in weekly cup all month long, where NA are mostly custom and ladder practice.
On July 15 2011 02:16 Influ wrote: A lot of europeans are just pissed of that american players get more attention then top europeans when they can't even beat second tier europeans. I don't say that it is right or most think like that but that is what i heard a lot.
I'd agree that American players get more attention from fans than European players, but I think there's something to that. American players are creating shows and interacting with fans a lot, but I see nothing like that from EU players. People like Mr. Bitter, Catz, and Team vVv are all creating shows to connect to people, so I see stuff from them a lot more often. I know if White-Ra made a show, or any scheduled gaming time that I could watch during the day, I would watch it every time it was on.
I think the problem isn't that American players are getting more attention that European players, it's that European players aren't as active with connecting with fans. That's just my opinion, from someone in NA. I know leagues like NASL restream their shows for good EU times, but I don't see much coming the other way. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's just one thing I've been noticing lately.
The more you do beside practicing make you play worse. That's the main reason why at the start of CS2, everyone looked pretty equal, but with time KR > UE > NA. Because it's just koreans practice more than europeans who practice more than americans. Not to forget that almost every pro / semi pro who coach are americans. ( give me a ue pro who do that, they ain't any )
And there's the fact that europeans pro fight themselves in weekly cup all month long, where NA are mostly custom and ladder practice.
There is a german site where a lot of the well known pros offer coaching but I think that's not a good example, none of the big names from germany are known for practicing a lot so I still think you might have a point there.
I also think that it's way more easy to create content when you are a native english speaker which most european are not. Afaik White-ra has his own homepage where he is doing a lot, in general in the russian community is going on a lot and noone knows about that outside of eastern europe. In Germany weh have something similar to SotG, Take is doing a lot in german and there are a lot of other german caster etc.. I don't know about scandinavia, france or poland but I'm sure they have their stuff as well. The whole entertainment industry shows that native english speakers have the most popular content and that's for sure not because noone else in the world cares about getting into it.
On July 15 2011 02:16 Influ wrote: A lot of europeans are just pissed of that american players get more attention then top europeans when they can't even beat second tier europeans. I don't say that it is right or most think like that but that is what i heard a lot.
I'd agree that American players get more attention from fans than European players, but I think there's something to that. American players are creating shows and interacting with fans a lot, but I see nothing like that from EU players. People like Mr. Bitter, Catz, and Team vVv are all creating shows to connect to people, so I see stuff from them a lot more often. I know if White-Ra made a show, or any scheduled gaming time that I could watch during the day, I would watch it every time it was on.
I think the problem isn't that American players are getting more attention that European players, it's that European players aren't as active with connecting with fans. That's just my opinion, from someone in NA. I know leagues like NASL restream their shows for good EU times, but I don't see much coming the other way. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's just one thing I've been noticing lately.
it's a lot harder to make a show in EU because of the different languages on the continent. Yes, every body can talk english but i don't think well enough to build a show.
The US scene up to this point has mainly been about shows, showmatches and streaming personalities while EU has been focused on the competition, weekly cups and leagues. And the different approaches show.
The NA players I find most interesting and promising are the upcoming sixjax and a couple of FXO players since they aren't busy promoting the shit out of themself.
While I agree the EU is stronger than NA on a broad scale, the fact is that players are individuals regardless of which country they are born in. Some NA players are better than some EU players and visa versa. Relax guys.
On July 15 2011 17:35 TT1 wrote: catz is a really underrated player, plz give him a chance and stop being so harsh ^^
Underrated is when you win shit and people still don't give you credit. CatZ has not come close to winning anything respected by himself in any important tournament. He can't even get out of open bracket in MLG when most respectable players do.
Players are people not machines they have good days and bad days. They go through up cycles and down cycles SC2 is a hard game to master and as a result people go through rough losing streaks. Jinro for example was the best of the best for a while and now is back to the drawing board with recent struggles. Does that mean he is a horrible player? (Obviously not)
So... CatZ... who went 2-8 in NASL, had 8 "bad days" out of the 10 he had to play matches on, over a 10 week period? Those aren't just "bad days" anymore then, that's just BAD.
On July 14 2011 18:24 BjC wrote: I cant help but think that if any of the series with drewbie or catz was even close then people would be embracing the server pride and loving the games as it brings more enoyment to them. As in the Korea vs the world event in the GSL.
It just seems that because European players are stomping them, the American posters want to shame us for beeing proud that our team is winning. There is nothing wrong with it and if it was someone like Sheth vs Europe and the games were close in skill, then im sure that both sides would be supporting there team loudly and unashamed.
Korea is the top dog as far as players skill comes in. Europe is in front of NA also, It seems that Americans dont want to admit this though and fight or try and belittle posters from europe that say it because really they are ashamed.
Recent NASL - 9 Koreans - 5 Europeans - 1 American ( Strealok was replaced by Alive, so should of been 8 Kor - 6 Euro - 1 NA ) TSL3 - Top 4 finishers - ALL Europe.
Americans Accept that Korea is ahead of them and dont mind when Korean fans show there national pride. Why do they not accept that Europe is also in front of them and why do they get upset when we show our pride also? double standards?
I am all for country/continent pride, but this whole seperation of players by EU/US/Korea etc. is just stupid imo. I would rather have it be would people are judged purely on skill like MC > Idra or Idra > Sen or Kas > Catz etc.. Also these are just examples so don't blow them out of proportion please.
Its just alittle frustrating as Americans are usually first to show national pride and chant "U S A, U S A" But seen as Europe is showing ahead of them alot reacently it is becoming a big issue for them and we are made to feel wrong and belittled when we show our pride, it is wrong for it to be like this. Hence people making a fuss. Im all for being united as a community but cheering for your sever or country to do well is only natural. In GSL world team im sure we were mostly all cheering for the World team regardless of nationality as the event was world vs Korea. In an event called Catz vs Europe, of course it is Americans vs Europeans and again national pride will come out. The losing side sould be more gracefull in defeat and allow the victors to celebrate and not be pulled down or made to feel that you shouldnt be celebrating your teams win.
Americans being sore losers fuels the fire of more forum arguements, whats the point. Take it on the chin, hope your players practice more and come back next time and im sure both sides would enjoy it alot more when its an even fight between equal level players.
Personally felt Catz let himself down wanting to cheese and play bad games on bad maps when Kas was really trying to play good games and involve the audience in his strat selection ect. After all it was only a showmatch
-VODs, -replays -wordclouds -results etc. -reuploaded the goody vs catz replays
The game 3 VOD of CatZ vs Kas is unfortunately not available. The file is broken But the replay is still uploaded
Now in the last 3-4 pages there were some real discussions going on. A few people start to realize that this is just a showmatch, not something to measure skill between EU & NA.
so this
EU > NA now l2p
is still a little premature. I really like that Kas wanted to try out different strategies like BC rush or GoOdy style. Same goes for CatZ who wanted to go for Steppes of War as a map. Really appreciate that both players understood the concept of a "Showmatch"
In my opinion a little bit of pride is absolutly okay - talking in absolutes is not. Just appreciate the free HD (rofl) entertainment and enjoy the games
On July 14 2011 18:24 BjC wrote: I cant help but think that if any of the series with drewbie or catz was even close then people would be embracing the server pride and loving the games as it brings more enoyment to them. As in the Korea vs the world event in the GSL.
It just seems that because European players are stomping them, the American posters want to shame us for beeing proud that our team is winning. There is nothing wrong with it and if it was someone like Sheth vs Europe and the games were close in skill, then im sure that both sides would be supporting there team loudly and unashamed.
Korea is the top dog as far as players skill comes in. Europe is in front of NA also, It seems that Americans dont want to admit this though and fight or try and belittle posters from europe that say it because really they are ashamed.
Recent NASL - 9 Koreans - 5 Europeans - 1 American ( Strealok was replaced by Alive, so should of been 8 Kor - 6 Euro - 1 NA ) TSL3 - Top 4 finishers - ALL Europe.
Americans Accept that Korea is ahead of them and dont mind when Korean fans show there national pride. Why do they not accept that Europe is also in front of them and why do they get upset when we show our pride also? double standards?
I love how everything turns into a dick measuring contest. You speak of "pride" of "your" team, of which you have no control over. You didn't select to be born in Europe, and I'm quite sure the players in these show matches don't consider themselves part of this "team" your proud to be apart of. I've heard of National Pride, which I myself don't quite completely understand, but Europe Pride? Or server Pride?
This is of individual skill concern. Not continental. We aren't matching what NA considers its top 5 players against the Top 5 of Europe. This is Special Endrey cherry picking sub par players and putting them against players like White-Ra and Kas. Catz is yet to achieve ANYTHING in competitive gaming as a whole, Drewbie placed at an MLG shortly after beta. Yet they are somehow expected to yield results against they dine mega of Europe.
If you really want to a measuring contest then I would suggest showcasing a little more even of a playing field.
On July 21 2011 04:31 JustPassingBy wrote: Kas vs CatZ, two spellings, one pronounciation.
edit: btw. did they really play 4-2? winner winning the set after an even number of games, that doesn't make any sense.
How does that not make sense? If you play a bo3 and someone wins 2-0, they win the set after an even number of games.
In a bo7, one player can win the first 2 games, and then the other player can win the next 4, and win the entire set with a score of 4-2... also an even number. I don't follow your logic whatsoever...
On July 21 2011 04:31 JustPassingBy wrote: Kas vs CatZ, two spellings, one pronounciation.
edit: btw. did they really play 4-2? winner winning the set after an even number of games, that doesn't make any sense.
How does that not make sense? If you play a bo3 and someone wins 2-0, they win the set after an even number of games.
In a bo7, one player can win the first 2 games, and then the other player can win the next 4, and win the entire set with a score of 4-2... also an even number. I don't follow your logic whatsoever...
The only strange thing I see is that Catz vs Goody was a Bo5 but Catz vs Kas was a Bo7.
On July 21 2011 04:31 JustPassingBy wrote: Kas vs CatZ, two spellings, one pronounciation.
edit: btw. did they really play 4-2? winner winning the set after an even number of games, that doesn't make any sense.
How does that not make sense? If you play a bo3 and someone wins 2-0, they win the set after an even number of games.
In a bo7, one player can win the first 2 games, and then the other player can win the next 4, and win the entire set with a score of 4-2... also an even number. I don't follow your logic whatsoever...
The only strange thing I see is that Catz vs Goody was a Bo5 but Catz vs Kas was a Bo7.
Ah, nvm. Mindfart on my end, has been a long day. ^^"
On July 15 2011 17:35 TT1 wrote: catz is a really underrated player, plz give him a chance and stop being so harsh ^^
Underrated is when you win shit and people still don't give you credit. CatZ has not come close to winning anything respected by himself in any important tournament. He can't even get out of open bracket in MLG when most respectable players do.
Thats not fair, the open bracket at MLG is proberly one of the hardest tournament to qualify true. The amount of matches they have to play in very little timespan is preatty harsh. check Thorzain fanpage if you wanna know how it is as a player to go true the open mlg bracket.
Endrey keep it up its a nice show and get seth or idra next:D
On July 06 2011 23:11 BansheeDK wrote: Even though every series was pretty one-sided (Awesome last game though), you did a great job last time Endrey
Definitely looking forward to this.
Is it possible that you could get some less good players this time? I mean Drewbie got completely man-handled last time and i think a lot of people would like to see more even games. I love seeing games with Kas, but he is too good for both Drewbie and CatZ. Is it possible to get a mid-GM player for the next series instead of a top-player?
Either way, I will be tuning in!
Drewbie and Catz might not be as good as Kas or White-Ra but saying that it would be good to invite a ''mid GM'' player in order to give them a chance is insulting to both Catz and Drewbie
but its still a fact that drewbie didnt have anything to throw against these elite players in europe
he just didnt have a chance against really good players
Will the series go on ? I realy like Endrey's casts and a nice show match is always good :D Also catz/drewbie vs. europe is a very good concept. A little bit sad that europe always won so far but maybe it will change. Catz can play like a beast !
After quite a long break due to MLGs, Blizzard Invitationals, Gamescom etc. we were not able to schedule a match right away, but today we are! CatZ will be playing against White-Ra!
On August 30 2011 22:47 Special Endrey wrote: UPDATE
I updated the OP - we are continuing today!
After quite a long break due to MLGs, Blizzard Invitationals, Gamescom etc. we were not able to schedule a match right away, but today we are! CatZ will be playing against White-Ra!
On August 30 2011 22:47 Special Endrey wrote: UPDATE
I updated the OP - we are continuing today!
After quite a long break due to MLGs, Blizzard Invitationals, Gamescom etc. we were not able to schedule a match right away, but today we are! CatZ will be playing against White-Ra!
I'm sorry, but I don't see this ending well for CatZ Not hatin' but WhiteRa... well,
He makes expand, then he defenses it. It's a fool proof tactic.
On August 30 2011 22:47 Special Endrey wrote: UPDATE
I updated the OP - we are continuing today!
After quite a long break due to MLGs, Blizzard Invitationals, Gamescom etc. we were not able to schedule a match right away, but today we are! CatZ will be playing against White-Ra!
TL calendar please Andrey !
should be on in time. i did do submit the details for the showmatch.
I don't think Catz is at all confident in his ability to beat any of these players. He lost to Goody 3-0 and cheesed his ass off against Kas, even choosing steppes of war in one match, lol. I predict White-ra 4-1, with Catz's win being off of an all-in play.
Catz is no longer an elite player. Not sure if his skills have diminished or that everyone else has just developed past him like Koreans to Foreigners.
So awesome to once again see a game on Desert Oasis. For all its issues, I dearly loved that map and had some of my most entertaining ladder matches on it before it got removed from the map pool. Also, some really cool pro games were held on DO back in the days. Would have been cool if the map had seen some effort and reworking instead of just dumping it, but well.
Also, good that WhiteRa took game 1, not that there was any doubt.
On August 31 2011 05:18 sitromit wrote: Too many Infestors, not enough lings. It looked like he could have held that if he had more lings in the beginning, with fewer Infestors.
Mainly because of the Mutas which didn't do anything and therefore he had much less army. Mutas kinda suck in a straight up fight vs Blink Stalkers in those numbers
So Catz just wants to cheese and even though whitera was going for a FFE he holds and counters with his own gates and owns Catz at his own game.. HaHa. White-ra why u so good?
White-Ra is so experienced, he has a real good understanding of the game and super decision making. I don't think that Catz is on the level of White-Ra. Still hope that Catz will show a better performance.
On August 31 2011 05:36 ellirc wrote: This guy's commentary is surprisingly good Funny story just told too!
Absolutely. He's (usually) not getting too high viewer numbers, but Special Endrey is consistently streaming, organizing a lot of fun showmatches and has a really smooth style. One of my favorite casters on TL, I can only recommend his work.
(Also, his fluent casting in english is pretty good for a German ).
I'm really enjoying Endrey's commentary, first time listening to him. Catz is getting wrecked though, his control seems really off. I keep cringing to all the lost infestors
I like how WhiteRa scouted for a possible proxy hatch at the beginning of the game. Shows how flexible he is in regard to opposing special tactics. Sadly Catz did not respond optimally to the cannons, he was behind form there.
Whoa! how many Archons!! I think White-ra is another level compared to Catz. Who cant really be feeling good right now, its abit embaressing i guess. Although more GG more Skill for Catz to improve! =D
On August 31 2011 05:36 ellirc wrote: This guy's commentary is surprisingly good Funny story just told too!
Absolutely. He's (usually) not getting too high viewer numbers, but Special Endrey is consistently streaming, organizing a lot of fun showmatches and has a really smooth style. One of my favorite casters on TL, I can only recommend his work.
(Also, his fluent casting in english is pretty good for a German ).
Yeah, really impressed with both the language and the knowledge. I'll tune in again that's for sure.
On August 31 2011 05:36 ellirc wrote: This guy's commentary is surprisingly good Funny story just told too!
Absolutely. He's (usually) not getting too high viewer numbers, but Special Endrey is consistently streaming, organizing a lot of fun showmatches and has a really smooth style. One of my favorite casters on TL, I can only recommend his work.
(Also, his fluent casting in english is pretty good for a German ).
Yeah, really impressed with both the language and the knowledge. I'll tune in again that's for sure.
Endrey's a v. solid caster, does loads of awesome events as well as regular casts.
Catz won that game cause of hero ling that blocked of the gold cannon just when it was setting up, if that cannon did get placed im sure catz would have lost
lol.. Catz - get econ advantage, do bigger all in. Why take macro hatches when he could of taken mining bases with no counter. Seems Catz actually doesnt want a proper game. Is this his style? seems lame but was a really fun game and gg to Catz
Endrey talking about possible expo's (and having camera on them) on Bel'Shir when CatZ's early Zerglings are @ White-Ra's front door and almost get in, apparently White-Ra blocked with Gateway.
Goodshow CatZ. Gratz White-Ra!! 2 of my favorite players going at it- what an unexpected treat before work... thanks so much for the great show Special Endrey!!
Pretty good series! For some reason catz can deliver good games even when he's getting owned. Well played by Whitera, and a shoutout to catz for being awesome.
On August 31 2011 22:41 ArcadeR wrote: Some American Players vs. Europe...really a joke, the average Skill here in EU is much higher in M / GM League... and that's not a flame it's a fact.
Damn right. And catz is in my opinion not on that level. Even though he streams sometimes like 12hours....srsly its a waste of time.
On November 04 2011 03:59 Corsica wrote: It was entertaining to watch but you got to wonder how it was emerassing to themselves. I think Destiny or KiwiKaki vs EU would be interesting
EPT
White-Ra - UPDATE: VODs are up !![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Oj2tj.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/GJ3oB.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/8QRB1.png)
![[image loading]](http://www.allmystery.de/dateien/uh62347,1272979669,trollface.png)
Ok, now let's be serious: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/kM55U.png)
CatZ taking on various players from Europe once a week!![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/yCNNJ.jpg)
Drewbie played the first series against various players from the EU like: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/XPrKQ.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/wxoi5.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/OhMuI.png)
but yeah more hope for USA for sure
Kas 3-0 CatZ 
??? 
