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Enough with the racism discussions, this is a LR Thread. Cut it out. -- updated 7:55 KST
On June 06 2011 07:35 Stenstyren wrote: It's not racist, I care much less for the Koreans, not because they are Koreans but because they don't participate in any tournaments I watch. This means that I neither love not hate them and thus their games become boring to watch, no emotions at all from my side.
I am unfortunately not a big enough Starcraft fan to watch games just because the player who plays them is good, I'm mostly watching for excitement.
That's cool, it's your opinion, but please understand that there are people who ARE big fans of starcraft and who do love watching to see high quality play. MMA's play has been fantastic throughout the tournament and as a fan I would feel robbed if people as skilled as him weren't participating in MLG because Western fans don;t want to see their own players lose or something.
I think people who are upset at the Koreans being here aren't being racist. It's more the fact that the Korean players are simply better than the rest, though not by much. They want their favorite players like Idra or Naniwa or Incontrol or whoever else to win or do well, but with Koreans also playing it makes it twice as hard. That's not the Koreans' fault though. The better players win these tournaments, if you want your favorite to win, tell em to quit dicking around and practice more so they can compete with the best the world has to offer. The Koreans in this tournament have made it a really enjoyable experience, from MC interacting with the crowd and the epic rivalry with Idra, to great matches between the Koreans themselves, and also great matches between them and foreigners.
what peope here crying about koreans dominating seem to forget is that those invites are prolly one of teh few best koreans out there losira won code a and is now doing a great job in code s, mc is considered to be teh best toss in the world and mma killed soooo many good players in teamleagues if i could put up a ranking for each race losira is prolly top 3 zerg and mma is atleast top 5 or 6 terran
also there have been soem very close games and none of the koreans looked unbeatable and i don think the top foreigners showed their best in this mlg
On June 06 2011 07:40 mholden02 wrote: Saying you prefer to watch Foreigners is not "RACIST", its more nationalistic. You want "Your Team" to win and the excitement wears off without a rooting interest.
If Thorzain or Idra were this far I must agree, it would be much more entertaining as the Foreign scene has really taken to these two players. They seem to have touched a nerve. Naniwa, not so much, although he might be the best of the three.
It is racist because Thorzain and Naniwa and IdrA are from completely different places. Two are European (both Swedish I think?) and IdrA is American. At least one of them is not from your continent. So it is white guys versus Koreans, which is literally racist to prefer your own skin color over another.
Its more a foreigner vs korea attitude it has nothing to do with race. why wasnt this a issue in bw but yet when people say they want foreigners to win in sc2 they're racists
On June 06 2011 07:36 Thrill wrote: So sad that there won't be a State of the Game show to wrap this tournament up. So many stories and most of all - Korean domination to discuss. Sure, some Europeans weren't there (WhiteRa etc) but honestly, these aren't exactly the top Koreans either.
Will we see the same thing happen at Dreamhack in two weeks? I think so.
Would have LOVED to have a SotG on this where the pros themselves can speak on the matter.
What?
MC is undoubtedly the best Protoss in the world. Losira is a top 5 Zerg and MMA is a rising Terran star.
Also, we have pretty much the best foreigners at this MLG. I can't think of any that were sorely missed.
White-Ra
It's a shame that Korea didn't get to see special tactics.
he's saving his speshul tektiks for MLG anaheim... hopefully
I just noticed something about MLG Columbus, and excuse me if this has already been said. We now have a situation where only a Korean can win the finals. Also, no Korean was eliminated by a foreigner, only by another Korean. July lost to Moon, Moon lost to MC. This is the definition of Korean domination in this tournament.
Rather than arguing that Koreans are ruining MLG, why don't we go deeper? Why are the Korean players so damn good?
Because they practice 10 hours a day, live with other pros who also practice 10 hours a day, have coaches that help them practice 10 hours a day, and end up being really f**king good at it. At this level, Starcraft is more than just a game, and you really need to put in the effort like you would a real career. TLO setting up a pro house is a great step and I look forward to seeing "white dudes" owning up Koreans.
(This is like internationalisation debates all over again, if you can't compete, step it up or GTFO, trade restrictions ain't the answer)
Well Gretorp was a walk over for everyone I feel in the pool play - I mean how could he even get in there, feels like someone else could deserve that kind of spot.
On June 06 2011 07:42 KimJongChill wrote: MC wins 2-1 against Losira 2-0 against MMA you heard it here first.
MC, coming from the loser bracket, would have to win two consecutive bo3 against MMA to win the champion. Losira would just have to win one extended series.
You see how MC gives the thumb down on American White Idra while doing the handshake to the European Naniwa? That's how the world sees American White fan boys.
On June 06 2011 07:40 mholden02 wrote: Saying you prefer to watch Foreigners is not "RACIST", its more nationalistic. You want "Your Team" to win and the excitement wears off without a rooting interest.
If Thorzain or Idra were this far I must agree, it would be much more entertaining as the Foreign scene has really taken to these two players. They seem to have touched a nerve. Naniwa, not so much, although he might be the best of the three.
It is racist because Thorzain and Naniwa and IdrA are from completely different places. Two are European (both Swedish I think?) and IdrA is American. At least one of them is not from your continent. So it is white guys versus Koreans, which is literally racist to prefer your own skin color over another.
Idra and Thorzain are from the foreign scene while MC, MMA and Losira are from the Korean scene. It has nothing to do with race and everything to do with foreign vs Korean scene.
On June 06 2011 07:40 mholden02 wrote: Saying you prefer to watch Foreigners is not "RACIST", its more nationalistic. You want "Your Team" to win and the excitement wears off without a rooting interest.
If Thorzain or Idra were this far I must agree, it would be much more entertaining as the Foreign scene has really taken to these two players. They seem to have touched a nerve. Naniwa, not so much, although he might be the best of the three.
Nationalism can breed racism... If your opponents in soccer or whatever all acted like you when they just got dominated then what would you think of them? You would probably start riding them for that?
Nationalism is the wrong word completely haha.
But ok, football analogy.
I'm from England, I support England. I am upset when they lose.
I'm from Not-Korea, I support Non-Koreans (well, my favourite players all happen to be non Korean), I am upset when they lose.
The former isn't racism or nationslism. The latter isn't racism or nationalism. It's just support.
On June 06 2011 07:03 BrahCJ wrote: Just woke up and it looks like I've missed some of the best games!
A couple of things I want to note. MajOr did an incredible job at this event. Sheth and Slush are on the brink of breaking through that "next level" MLG have done an amazing job. So much so, that I have enough faith to already buy tickets to the next 2 events. Even an act of god didn't stop them.
Now for the bombshell. I don't like the fact that Koreans have come through and taken *all* (top 3) the money. Yes, they provided the "best" play, and are incredibly solid/strong/gosu, however to have "The greater race" fly in for 3 days, walk away with $12,000, and leave isn't good for the foreigner scene. As is obvious, we have a pretty amazing audience now-days, but I don't believe we're giving the best foreigners the best chance at making this game viable. And if the best can't win an event like this, what is left for those at the brink of deciding whether or not they're going to dedicate their time/money/life to gaming, or to a 9-5 job.
Just like I buy the items with the "Made in Australia" tag over those made in China, I feel we should support the NA scene more than we did at MLG Columbus. Either that, or make it equally viable for foreigners to go to Korea, as it is for Korea to come to NA (3 days for $5k, opposed to 1 month for $1500 in code A)
Sincearly, Concerned fan.
QUOTED FOR TRUTH!
This should be on the front page of TL. If Koreans come into the western tournaments and take all the money then the western scene is dead. Players like Naniwa and Thorzain could not afford to attend these tournaments if they had not won previous ones. In the future those types of players simply won't show up, because it will be a given that the Koreans will win.
Don't invite the best in the world because we are to bad to compete with them?
Players like Naniwa have said that they WANT to compete against the BEST otherwise it is not a true "competition".. The more integrated the western and Korean scene becomes is BETTER for esports as a whole. BW died out everywhere except in Korea - having Koreans fly in for foreigner tournaments works against that same outcome.
Anyway; i really want MMA to take this!!! Even if he loses though then we get MMA vs MC?
I'm getting pretty depressed by this attitude.
Last I checked we were trying to call this an e-SPORT, as in a competition. If we're going to not have the best players... why bother trying to call it a sport? It's been raging for ages with people saying that the Koreans really aren't the best.
Well, 6 of them came to MLG, 3 of them made top 3, two of the others were knocked out by one of those 3....
They're better. Why should worse players win lots of money? Because you like them more for playing worse?
+1 not inviting the best just so u can win??, those are the attitude of losers
I understand and agree with your sentiment. Only the best players should win the best tourney. Which is where the GSL comes in, with a top prize of about $87000. You need to CULTIVATE roots-level first. I might have won my leagues premiership last year, but I don't feel the Spainish international team should have been flown over at the leagues expense, to find out who the best is.
And also, if you want "TEH MASSES!!!" to tune in, you need someone who you deem to be on an obtainable level, and for the 15 year olds just tuning in who may or may not be "The Next Jinro," it is VERY hard for that kid to aspire to be a pro when Koreans are winning whatever they enter.
I'm not saying "BAN KOREANS!" I'm saying, if Koreans want to participate in a chance to win $5000 in 3 days, let them pay for travel expenses, and fight for their seed points, just like Americans have to do in the GSL, and just like Americans have to do with the MLG. I'm asking for no privledges. Equality.
The point is its an exchange program, americans dont have to fight for their points in the GSL anymore if they placle high in MLG so its the same on both ends, the difference is that the general consensus of koreans is they want to see more foreigners in the GSL and then we have a bunch of people over here who want white only tournaments =/
Edit: I think its more inspiring for kids to look up to players with the highest skill level korean or not , not someone who won because they played in a tournament with only average players, race has nothing to do with who you look up to unless you are racist or you were raised that way, sounds like you were raised that way and its kind of a shame.
I think there is a vocal minority that wants to see only foreign players but most of the starcraft 2 community just wants to see good games regardless of where you come from or what your skin color is.
EPT
