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[TSL] Ro8 Day 2 - Page 210

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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Arguing and whining in this thread will be met with the hammer. Please enjoy the games and keep this thread on track!
s4life
Profile Joined March 2007
Peru1519 Posts
April 25 2011 21:05 GMT
#4181
On April 26 2011 05:07 arb wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 26 2011 04:40 GinDo wrote:
On April 26 2011 01:35 MCDayC wrote:
On April 26 2011 00:39 gen.Sun wrote:
On April 25 2011 20:55 Kyo Yuy wrote:
On April 25 2011 20:34 Talin wrote:
On April 25 2011 19:59 sleepingdog wrote:
On April 25 2011 16:16 WAAA wrote:
^ so what you are saying is wc3 players won at the beginning because they played the game worse than everyone else, and now are winning because they are playing starcraft 2, not warcraft 3. You're right this discussion is pointless.


Lol this post wins, it's spot on. In the beginning everyone was like "blah, once the game gets figured out, the former BW pros will pwn the previous wc3 players hard because wc3 players can't macro"
Now they are "blah, the wc3 players obviously worked very hard on overcoming their flaws from playing wc3 and are still barely keeping on because sc2 doesn't demand enough mechanical skill"


Well both of those statements are actually true. While having a WC3 background is certainly not a "flaw", it really isn't much of a benefit either. You have plenty of players with no serious competitive background that became very successful in SC2 as well (Jinro, HuK and TLO to name a few).


Jinro was part of the Korean Brood War Dream.t clan that Jangbi was in.

TLO was A- in ICCUP before transferring to SC2.

Huk was one of the top players in Company of Heroes before joining SC2.



All of this information can be found on Liquipedia.

Also, there were quite a few foreigners who were part of BW pro teams aside from Idra, Tyler, and Ret. Draco, Elky, Giyom, and a few Chinese players were all part of Korean pro teams at some point.

I'm not going to make any argument is to which RTS is "the best," but I just wanted to make sure you got your facts straight.

As far as I know, the vast majority of known SC2 progamers DO have previous significant previous RTS experience. To say that Jinro, Huk, and TLO had no serious competitive background is incorrect.

In Korea, some of the best SC2 progamers were BW progamers who have very few accomplishments in BW (e.g. oGsMC, MVP, Nestea, MKP, and even FruitDealer). In contrast, the "bonjwas" and really well known players in BW have not been able to show strong consistent performances in the GSL (Boxer, July, Nada). Some of the best BW progamers from the U.S. are showing strong performances in SC2 nationally. It's Europe where we see the greatest representation of ex WC3 progamers, but even some European BW players like DIMAGA have shown amazing results outside of TSL (and Dimaga was banned from TSL3 due to TSL2 ladder abuse - who knows what might have happened if Dimaga had been allowed to enter)?

SC2, WC3, and BW are different games. You can have an opinion as to which game is the best, but ultimately they are separate games and experience in one doesn't dictate domination/skill in another. Judging from the wide representation of RTS backgrounds in SC2, I'd say the best SC2 players are determined based on how good those players are at SC2, and not based on what game they played prior to moving to SC2.


You have no idea what you're talking about bro.

A- on iccup is nowhere near competitive level, that's like saying all grandmasters are competitive. Bbbzzzz wrong.

Also the bonjwas sucked at bw in the timeline of MVP and mc.

You don't really understand the skill gap towards the higher end of bw. There's as much difference between TLO and Flash as there as between TLO and a bronze.

That's just a massive exaggeration.
What this thread should be discussing is the awesomeness of the games that were played, and the awesomeness of the upcoming games. That's what matters.



Yeah, he's not exaggerating. Watch the last WCG and watch how flash roffle stomps the Foreigners. Koreans are so good even TossGirl could roffle stomp pretty much any foreigner in her sleep and she sucks compared to Flash or Jeadong.

tossgirl actually loses most of her games vs foreigners ..

shes reallllllllllllllly bad


I've seen her beat cloud with one hand tied to her back.. she's better than most foreigner methinks.
p4NDemik
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States13896 Posts
April 25 2011 21:26 GMT
#4182
On April 26 2011 05:26 Skyze wrote:
the reason people keep bringing this up is because people like Tasteless, even as lately as last week! on GSL have been saying "WC3 players just cant keep up with BW players".. Watch the games last week on GSL and he was talking shit about how bad WC3 players were the whole series. That is why it gets brought up again, if there wasnt such a BW elitist attitude from a caster on the largest casted tourney in the world, we would accept the fact that everyone is equal.. But when people like Tasteless keep going "Well BW players are just superior in every way", That is such an untrue stereotype, as shown by almost every single result outside of GSL.

Even Artosis has learned since beta how false that is, and everytime tasteless goes on these "WC3 players are just bad" rants, Artosis changes the subject asap and doesnt contribute to the trolling. Good for Artosis, hes really learned at least on air, how to be professional. Wish I could say the same for his partner.

Its the same exact thing as IdrA, when he talks about how imbalanced everything in the game is except him, he tells his little fanboys and then they go around spreading it as if it is unbiased truth, just because it came from IdrA's mouth. Thats exactly what Tasteless does, and now everyone who isn't knowledgeable about the latest tournaments still think WC3 players are garbage, yet infact they have won almost everything outside of korea and have their footprint all over the TSL finals. Its just ridiculous that the community puts so much belief into what biased casters or players like Tasteless and IdrA say, as if they are the gospel.

The situation regarding WC3 vs BW players in Korea is vastly different than the situation regarding WC3 vs BW players outside of Korea. BW in Korea is and was always so much larger and more competitive than WC3, and its no wonder that most of the top Korean players have a background in BW. Outside of Korea though, up until the release of SC2, the competitive WC3 scene was much larger and held to higher standards of skill than for BW.

When Tasteless says that BW players are superior to WC3 players he is talking about the players in Korea (at least every time I've seen him make this comment that was the impression I got). He isn't really wrong and it isn't inappropriate for him to make that claim, there are more ex-BW guys at the higher levels of SC2 in Korea, its just a fact.
Moderator
DyEnasTy
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States3714 Posts
April 25 2011 23:07 GMT
#4183
Wow congrats to Hasu and Nani for winning!
Much better to die an awesome Terran than to live as a magic wielding fairy or a mindless sac of biological goop. -Manifesto7
lovedoctor
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany115 Posts
April 26 2011 08:47 GMT
#4184
In fact former super player from both games, bw (boxer, nada, july) and wc3 (moon, lyn, grubby, tod) aren`t dominating the scene! Which let me come to the conclusion that skill is not transferable between those three games?!
"Infestors own marines in a way you don't understand" - artosis
Vazure
Profile Joined April 2011
United States5 Posts
April 26 2011 08:51 GMT
#4185
a thorzain vs naniwa final would be amazing! naniwa has been so dominant in tournament play lately and the relatively unknown thorzain has shown he is one of the best and most versatile terrans in the world. TSL3 has really opened my eyes to how great european players are.
Velr
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Switzerland10727 Posts
April 26 2011 12:15 GMT
#4186
On April 26 2011 17:47 lovedoctor wrote:
In fact former super player from both games, bw (boxer, nada, july) and wc3 (moon, lyn, grubby, tod) aren`t dominating the scene! Which let me come to the conclusion that skill is not transferable between those three games?!


Boxer/Nada/July are not "TOP" SC/BW pro gamers... Not anymroe...

They were once but it was a LONG time ago (Well, july had a short outburst but even that one is 2 years ago iirc?)... You also don't bring up Alucard or Madfrog when your talking about a WC3 Superplayer...?

The SC/BW Superplayers are still playing SC/BW... The guys right now are not really top level... MC for instance was pretty terrible and has barely played any proleague games (and looked terrible in them)... MVP was kinda good, but nowhere near as good/consistent as the true greats.
lovedoctor
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany115 Posts
April 26 2011 15:33 GMT
#4187
On April 26 2011 21:15 Velr wrote:
The guys right now are not really top level... MC for instance was pretty terrible and has barely played any proleague games (and looked terrible in them)... MVP was kinda good, but nowhere near as good/consistent as the true greats.


I hope one of today's 'super' players will try to proove my theory wrong but I think they may be afraight it is right.
"Infestors own marines in a way you don't understand" - artosis
HULKAMANIA
Profile Blog Joined December 2004
United States1219 Posts
April 26 2011 15:46 GMT
#4188
On April 27 2011 00:33 lovedoctor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 26 2011 21:15 Velr wrote:
The guys right now are not really top level... MC for instance was pretty terrible and has barely played any proleague games (and looked terrible in them)... MVP was kinda good, but nowhere near as good/consistent as the true greats.


I hope one of today's 'super' players will try to proove my theory wrong but I think they may be afraight it is right.

Right. Flash hasn't switched to SC2 because he is afraid he will suck at it. That can't be what you're actually implying, can it?
If it were not so, I would have told you.
Lennon
Profile Joined February 2010
United Kingdom2275 Posts
April 26 2011 22:45 GMT
#4189
On April 26 2011 00:36 s4life wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 25 2011 20:06 Lylat wrote:
Well this discussion about wc3 and BW player is useless but tbh the top BW pro (Flash, Jaedong, Bizu,etc...) haven't switched yet unlike wc3 pro


Yup.. which is why WC3 players are currently dominating the foreign scene.. inside Korea though is another matter as the pool of BW B-teamers and semi-pros was much larger.


There are still many WC3 pros who haven't switched over so this argument is invalid: another excuse shut down.
Eppa!
Profile Joined November 2010
Sweden4641 Posts
April 26 2011 23:03 GMT
#4190
On April 26 2011 03:26 sleepingdog wrote:
What I find interesting, considering the long-term perspective of PvT

If I'm not mistaken, Hasu didn't build ONE SINGLE phoenix in the whole series, despite the fact that Crevasse and Tal'Darim Altar are pretty much the biggest maps out there (except Terminus Re). Contrary, Boxer stomped Nightend, who relied heavily on phoenix-play.

I've never liked phoenixes vs terran, not as an opener, not as a late-game transition. WhiteRa hardly uses them and - as is now apparent - neither does Hasu, and both are top PvT players. I'm not sure, but I believe Nani doesn't really use them either. I think we've seen that, at least vs "classic" bio play, heavy upgrading into zealot-heavy gateway compositions with colossi AND templar tech is currently the strongest way to go vs terran.

Nani, Hasu and Whitera are a step above nightend. Doesn't mean phoenix are good neither that they are bad. MC went phoenix in the last game vs thorzain, which proves that MC finds potential in them.
"Can't wait till Monday" Cixah+Waveofshadow. "Needs to be monday. Weekend please go by quickly." Gahlo
Kpaxlol
Profile Joined April 2010
813 Posts
April 30 2011 18:13 GMT
#4191
Would be pretty lame if they abuse the stream.
<3 bw
Dixen
Profile Joined April 2011
Poland2 Posts
April 30 2011 18:14 GMT
#4192
Omg stream is laggin for EU, again. I've try'd low quality and it is even worse. Plz fix it.
Whakapapa
Profile Joined April 2011
Denmark42 Posts
April 30 2011 18:20 GMT
#4193
its fine here (Denmark)
LayZRR
Profile Joined February 2011
Germany449 Posts
April 30 2011 20:25 GMT
#4194
LOL nice cannon rush chill :D
DeLiriuMs
Profile Joined December 2010
Bulgaria40 Posts
April 30 2011 20:37 GMT
#4195
Cannon cheesed twice in a game @ the same spot! Sweet!!!!
HaXXspetten
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Sweden15718 Posts
April 30 2011 20:40 GMT
#4196
A classy touch in that game Chill lol
Toasted
Profile Joined April 2010
United Kingdom14 Posts
April 30 2011 20:43 GMT
#4197
*Chill looses half his scvs in lava surge*
TLO: Haha you retard
*TLO Looses half his drones in lava surge*
TLO: Oh shit..
Moxi
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
708 Posts
May 07 2011 17:54 GMT
#4198
GO GO THORZAIN!!
Infection
Profile Joined April 2011
Sweden6 Posts
May 07 2011 18:04 GMT
#4199
I hope thorzain practised his TvT alot.
I'm so furious
Moxi
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
708 Posts
May 07 2011 18:07 GMT
#4200
[image loading]
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