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$100 bo7 Spanishiwa vs. Minigun! "The V" from coL! - Page 11

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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Prev 1 9 10 11 All
loveeholicce
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Korea (South)785 Posts
April 16 2011 17:26 GMT
#201
On April 16 2011 10:05 IdrA wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 16 2011 09:51 hugman wrote:
On April 16 2011 09:42 Tachion wrote:
4 gate, 6 gate, 4 gate, 4 gate

nice diversity there minigun lol

I guess he was afraid of spanish's lategame

hes afraid of minigun's late game


LOL
상처받은 그대에 가슴에 사랑을 심어줄께요♥
Minigun
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
619 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-16 17:49:57
April 16 2011 17:37 GMT
#202
On April 16 2011 19:09 mufin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 16 2011 11:02 Minigun wrote:
On April 16 2011 09:42 Tachion wrote:
4 gate, 6 gate, 4 gate, 4 gate

nice diversity there minigun lol


air = not possible, he gets so many queens, would be auto lose
expand and go into mid game = he is ahead because of his opening, he has 2x the amount of harvesters as you have
dts = not really viable if he prepares, which he should

so that leaves you with

4 gate

4 gate

6 gate

and 4 gate


problem with your logic is spanish holds 4 and 6gates on his stream all the time, with the same exact build.

spanish did not lose those 3 games because you made the right decisions. He lost them because he made mistakes he doesn't normally make. The series should've been a 4-0.

And sorry but I can't take any protoss seriously (or player for that matter) that claims the only way they can win is by all-inning every match.



You can say that sentence whenever a zerg loses. Zerg has a fundamental the other two doesn't have. If ANY zerg loses, it's because he made a mistake, on drone/army, or a decision making error.

I've never played against this build before, I don't know what the best counters are, so I was just trying random builds.

I hate allining. I feel safest in macro games, but I wasn't sure on how to carry out the mid-late game, when he has such a economic lead mid-late game. One build I haven't really bothered to try is forge first on other maps from shakuras, and there's a rule. Don't use a build in a "turny" you haven't used in a ladder match.

If you 3 gate expand, you go into the mid game, knowing you are significantly behind. And the 3 gate expand is my go to build, so it the build threw me off my game a bit.

I'm sure there's a better counter to the plain 4 gate, or 6 gate. I just don't know what it is due to inexperience of playing against it.

air doesn't work, dts doesn't work, blink only works in the beginning and only on some maps. That alone narrows it down to 4 gate, 3 gate expand, or nexus first. And unfortunately, my 4 gates are probably not optimal because, I don't ever do them, because I don't like all ining.

I do think it's funny that the viewers of sc2 try and talk strategy. Why don't you jump in for a showmatch, .

He played, well, it's an interesting style, and I like it. Refreshing to see something new from zerg. Was well played by him.





“Quiet people have the loudest minds.” ― Stephen Hawking
UberThing
Profile Joined April 2010
Great Britain410 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-16 18:07:47
April 16 2011 18:07 GMT
#203
This was one awesome showmatch. Minigun gave a decent showing, but you have to hand it to Spanishiwa that he not only won, but made it it real fun to watch. =)
Wag1
DivineSC
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States128 Posts
April 16 2011 18:08 GMT
#204
*Hops on the Spanishiwa Band Wagon* Fighting!
Follow me on Twitter @vGDivine Vision Gaming. vGCommunity.com
BroboCop
Profile Joined December 2010
United States373 Posts
April 16 2011 21:00 GMT
#205
On April 16 2011 10:05 IdrA wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 16 2011 09:51 hugman wrote:
On April 16 2011 09:42 Tachion wrote:
4 gate, 6 gate, 4 gate, 4 gate

nice diversity there minigun lol

I guess he was afraid of spanish's lategame

hes afraid of minigun's late game

Thats odd, cause minigun--and all root protoss members for that matter are scared of my early game. it consists of 8pool. I guess 4gating is their only chance.
Bobster
Profile Joined January 2011
Germany3075 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-16 21:08:03
April 16 2011 21:06 GMT
#206
On April 17 2011 02:37 Minigun wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 16 2011 19:09 mufin wrote:
On April 16 2011 11:02 Minigun wrote:
On April 16 2011 09:42 Tachion wrote:
4 gate, 6 gate, 4 gate, 4 gate

nice diversity there minigun lol


air = not possible, he gets so many queens, would be auto lose
expand and go into mid game = he is ahead because of his opening, he has 2x the amount of harvesters as you have
dts = not really viable if he prepares, which he should

so that leaves you with

4 gate

4 gate

6 gate

and 4 gate


problem with your logic is spanish holds 4 and 6gates on his stream all the time, with the same exact build.

spanish did not lose those 3 games because you made the right decisions. He lost them because he made mistakes he doesn't normally make. The series should've been a 4-0.

And sorry but I can't take any protoss seriously (or player for that matter) that claims the only way they can win is by all-inning every match.



You can say that sentence whenever a zerg loses. Zerg has a fundamental the other two doesn't have. If ANY zerg loses, it's because he made a mistake, on drone/army, or a decision making error.

I've never played against this build before, I don't know what the best counters are, so I was just trying random builds.

I hate allining. I feel safest in macro games, but I wasn't sure on how to carry out the mid-late game, when he has such a economic lead mid-late game. One build I haven't really bothered to try is forge first on other maps from shakuras, and there's a rule. Don't use a build in a "turny" you haven't used in a ladder match.

If you 3 gate expand, you go into the mid game, knowing you are significantly behind. And the 3 gate expand is my go to build, so it the build threw me off my game a bit.

I'm sure there's a better counter to the plain 4 gate, or 6 gate. I just don't know what it is due to inexperience of playing against it.

air doesn't work, dts doesn't work, blink only works in the beginning and only on some maps. That alone narrows it down to 4 gate, 3 gate expand, or nexus first. And unfortunately, my 4 gates are probably not optimal because, I don't ever do them, because I don't like all ining.

I do think it's funny that the viewers of sc2 try and talk strategy. Why don't you jump in for a showmatch, .

He played, well, it's an interesting style, and I like it. Refreshing to see something new from zerg. Was well played by him.





Exactly my thoughts! It's really interesting to see the players adapting to each other, the metagame between you two evolving live in such a series. Instead of the Zerg having to try things out to get to the Protoss, Spanishiwa opens so super-solid it forces your hand, trying out new approaches and builds you might not be super-comfortable with.

I'm amped to see what you and other top tier Protoss are going to come up with to shut that specific opener and its variants down. :D

You two definitely put up a great series, and that's what these showmatches are all about! Thanks for that.
AskJoshy
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States1625 Posts
April 16 2011 22:31 GMT
#207
VODs are online now at http://www.youtube.com/compLexityInsider ! Game 1:
Heroes, Hearthstone, and SC2 videos: http://www.youtube.com/AskJoshy
Fighter
Profile Joined August 2010
Korea (South)1531 Posts
April 20 2011 04:35 GMT
#208
Wow that was such a fun episode of The V. Spanishiwa is so entertaining to watch, but I do wonder if it's just a matter of time until his style gets cracked... it'd be interesting to hear what some other top level zergs have to say. Is "Ice Fishing" the next big thing? I'm not sure how technically solid Spanishiwa is, but could this build be even stronger?

Either way, very neat to see such a radically different build order come out, and this next episode of The V will be a great litmus test for this BO and for Spanishiwa himself
For Aiur???
jonathan1
Profile Joined October 2010
United States395 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-20 05:02:10
April 20 2011 05:01 GMT
#209
all protoss need to do against this is play a macro game and not try to force an all-in. build an expansion early if you see no gas because it's not like he's going to kill you with mass non-speed zerglings. as a protoss player, you should almost prefer playing against this style if you recognize it because you know you can safely expand and even take an earlier 3rd which allows you to get your expensize units up. all you really need is to scout for the unit composition they choose to go after taking all of their gas at the same time
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