Tournament run by GosuCoaching.com Thanks to Disciple for the results and recommended games images. AND thanks to tree.hugger for this post!!! (I'm sanctioned-stealing it from him)
I think Sjow will beat Jinro cos Jinro always under performs after a major tournament (see post-MLG, and losing ro64 in a korean tournament after GSL3)
Predictions: Tyler<Naniwa Naniwa has been on top form lately think he will win. Ret>Killer I love ret! TLO>Select Beat select in pokeridol recently, and TL open final. Jinro<Sjow See above Cant predict ace match.
Tyler and Ret have to play PvP and ZvZ? Ugh not good for TL (they are still favs but PvP is a joke and ZvZ is rets weakest mu no?)
Jinro will crush Sjow if it makes it there. TLO v Select is the toss up but in the few games i've seen recently Select hasn't been as great as he was a while back so i'd give the edge to TLO.
SICK lineup. Jinro vs Sjow is gonna be quite good.
Also, it seems like TLO is choosing to play Terran instead of Random this time around. Considering that SelecT is also a solid Terran, it should be quite an interesting match.
The players are ALL good. No matter who wins, this star-studded lineup is sure to please.
Have to agree with this if the ping was equal, but zvz can come down to latency so if its an american server ret could quite easily lose and it would be even more noticable with jinro v sjow, hopefully they play on a neutral server like NA or something because korea to eu is quite a distance
On February 03 2011 16:33 Spacekyod wrote: =( i just missed it. Bah!
Updates??
You didn't miss it. You're just one day early LOL.
Hah, oops. I went to the stream and saw that someone had asked when the matches started and someone responded that he had just missed them. Along with a mod or someone posting that the vods would be up soon. It was all generalized talk though so i just assumed.
On February 03 2011 16:41 iNcontroL wrote: naniwa > tyler ret > killer (but it could go either way) tlo > select (awesome mu) jinro < sjow
ace will be sjow vs tlo and I think sjow wins it
On February 03 2011 15:26 godemperor wrote: I think Sjow will beat Jinro cos Jinro always under performs after a major tournament (see post-MLG, and losing ro64 in a korean tournament after GSL3)
Predictions: Tyler<Naniwa Naniwa has been on top form lately think he will win. Ret>Killer I love ret! TLO>Select Beat select in pokeridol recently, and TL open final. Jinro<Sjow See above Cant predict ace match.
Awesome same as my predictions! As much as i love TL, Dignitas got this. (I do i hope i jinx them lol)
Ooooooh what a line-up! It's a little dampened by all 4 being mirror match-ups but with the kind of players involved, I'm sure it'll be riveting. Here are my predictions:
Teeler vs Nani (Teelar was saying he was confident in PvP and is imo a better player nyways) Ret vs Killer (ZvZ seems a bit random but hard to predict anything but ret winning this) TLO vs Select (what TLO spawns as will be pretty deciding, but select is a beast either way) Jinro vs Sjow (Jinro is overall far superior but Sjow just doesnt seem to loose TvTs.... at all)
If Sjow plays the ace match then I think he'll take the game, he's been on fire recently.
lol how lame they are all mirror, still going to see quite a few good games!!! ot sure how this will pan out, going to be 3-2 to one of them iIl go with Liquid!!!!
On February 03 2011 17:25 Phisk wrote: Teeler vs Nani (Teelar was saying he was confident in PvP and is imo a better player nyways) Ret vs Killer (ZvZ seems a bit random but hard to predict anything but ret winning this) TLO vs Select (what TLO spawns as will be pretty deciding, but select is a beast either way) Jinro vs Sjow (Jinro is overall far superior but Sjow just doesnt seem to loose TvTs.... at all)
If Sjow plays the ace match then I think he'll take the game, he's been on fire recently.
On February 03 2011 19:34 dacthehork wrote: Select is most underrated SC2 player and imo will be considered top 3 terran in the world material
knowing that, TLO is gonna get stomped. Only way he wins is with a BO victory since it's TvT.
TLO and stomped in same sentence? Get off Teamliquid . But really, I think liquid 3-0 or 3-1 are the only possibilities.
Tyler>Nani (Close, cuz nani's really good, but tyler has been playing some really good starcraft) Ret>Killer (No contest, ret's ZvZ is glorious. Killer is doomed) TLO>Select (Close, but after watching TLO stomp QXC in several games, I trust in him) Jinro>>>Sjow (Sjow may be a beast, but jinro got to the ro4 of gsl twice. Sjow has no chance)
Your fanboism is really showing through. Can't fault you for it though.
gonna get crucified on TL for this but i see it being either 4-0 or 3-1 for dignitas. Jinro will be the only point, the others i see going to dignitas.
On February 03 2011 20:36 Dystisis wrote: How does the Ace match work, who will play it?
Both teams decides on their ace player (usually the best player of the team) and then they face of in a deciding game.
I think this will be rather close, nAni is strong but I believe pvp is his weakest MU, on the other hand Tyler has not been impressing me at all in sc2 and I think he is slightly overrated.
Ret and TLO should be able to take their games without too much trouble. Sjow vs Jinro will be very interesting, Sjow's best MU is probably TvT (taking out the terrans at IEM only dropping a few games) and it's also hard to say exactly how good Jinro would do against an EU terran.
The lineups are so great. Imo it's the best CW in the short history of SC2 and it really can go either way. The only problem I see is the bad time (5am). TT
pretty epic match up =] nony > naniwa ret > killer ( if the lag sucks maybe killer can win? ) TLO < select jinro vs sjow epicness i think sjow has a good chance if korea lags otherwise jinro win
Since its all mirror matches, predicting isnt the easiest thing but Ill give it a try: Liquid`Tyler < dNaniwa Liquid`Ret > dKiLLeR Liquid`TLO < dSeleCT Liquid`Jinro > dSjoW Liquid`Jinro > dNaniwa (This is obviously just a guess for the Ace match as well)
This is going to be so epic and impossible to predict, No player is more than a 60% favorite.
Tyler>Nani Tyler really shines when he has time to prepare a match. He'll find some wierd timing window and attack. Ret>Killer Ret's monstrous macro zvz will be to much to handle for killer on a big map like shakuras. TLO<Select Select will nullify TLO's creative plans with all out aggression. Jinro<Sjow Sjow's been dominationg tvt lateley, and it's jinros weakest mu atm imho. TLO<Nani Nani gets his revenge after losing to tyler.
On February 03 2011 17:21 Headshot wrote: Why are there always so many mirrors?
I think part of the reason for so many mirrors is that I believe the teams pick the players to play on the maps and many of the maps are tough to play for certain match-ups. So the team both see blistering sands and they're like "Okay, that map is fine for PvT and PvZ, let's pick a protoss", then see Jungle basin and say "Map is fine for both TvP and TvZ, let's pick T", etc. This leads to a bit of it, I'm a little surprised that ZvZ ended up on Shakuras, but okay, map is not the only variable.
every time i look at the matchups for the gcpl i see mirrors and it makes me not want to watch
On February 03 2011 22:19 arterian wrote:Yeah, what's up with that? Any comments from the organizers, or is it the teams that deliberately decides the matchups?
- Teams are given the map pool - Teams decide their lineup based on the map pool and their best guess who the other team will position for each map. - Teams do NOT see the other team's lineup before they submit their lineup - Teams submit lineup to Xeris
This will invariably lead to mirror matches from time to time. Tonight just happened to be heavy on the mirror matches. As far as not wanting to watch tonight because of mirror matches, I can't even fathom missing the current leaders in the GCPL (Liquid and Dignitas) face off against each other tonight just because of that, but to each their own.
Also, mirror matchups are 50% of the possible matchups in the game (PvZ, PvT, TvZ, PvP, TvT, ZvZ), so you'll be missing a lot of professional SC2 games if you don't want to watch mirror matchups.
Both teams really pulled out their aces for this one. This is going to be some high level stuff. I normally don't like mirrors, but somehow for this match it seems appropriate.
On February 04 2011 01:13 n0ise wrote: Predictions
Nani>Tyler Ret>Killer Jinro>Sjow
TLOvSeleCT could go either way, depends on race as well. I'd say TLO.
TLO play as terran as was already mentioned in this thread. And iam quite confident that hes gonna win that, considering that he beat select several times recently (TLopen and pokeridol) and that TvT just might be the matchup he is most confident in (he race picked for it several times in the TLopen because of that) so my predictions TLO > SeleCT Naniwa > Tyler Naniwa seemed to be in just exeptional form lately Ret > Killer Dont know much about Killer and Ret is a beast Jinro =< Sjow Not quite sure about this one. I think Jinro is in general the stronger player but Sjow is very good in TvT from what i've seen, possibly even better than jinro
Ace match ... well ... If TLO plays for liquid and its a TvT (Sjow/Select) i think he got it, however if Naniwa is ace this might go to dignitas.
LiquidTyler < dNaniwa - PvP on Blistering Sands. Both sides are gonna do some type of 4 gate. Coinflip. LiquidRet > dKiLLeR - ZvZ on Shakuras, probably on the londer side for ZvZ. Ret wins. LiquidTLO < dSeleCT - Another close Game, both players have been playing well. Giving it to SeleCT, though. LiquidJinro > dSjoW - Really wish all these matches weren't mirrors, but this should still be another cool Game with Jinro coming off a big finish 2 GSL's in row and SjoW winning IEM. LiquidTLO < dNaniwa - Complete guess.
Wait, is TLO sticking to terran for the premier league? I'm still gonna take TLO over SeleCT. I think it comes down to the impossible to call ace match, can't wait for the games.
On February 04 2011 03:38 hmsrenown wrote: Wait, is TLO sticking to terran for the premier league? I'm still gonna take TLO over SeleCT. I think it comes down to the impossible to call ace match, can't wait for the games.
tlo is usually picking T vs T and picking random vs Z and P.
On February 03 2011 20:36 Dystisis wrote: How does the Ace match work, who will play it?
On February 03 2011 21:01 NotSupporting wrote: Both teams decides on their ace player (usually the best player of the team) and then they face of in a deciding game.
I think this will be rather close, nAni is strong but I believe pvp is his weakest MU, on the other hand Tyler has not been impressing me at all in sc2 and I think he is slightly overrated.
Ret and TLO should be able to take their games without too much trouble. Sjow vs Jinro will be very interesting, Sjow's best MU is probably TvT (taking out the terrans at IEM only dropping a few games) and it's also hard to say exactly how good Jinro would do against an EU terran.
If Tyler brings his A game it'll go 3-1, with Ret losing his ZvZ. Tyler has been off lately though, so if he drops his game it'll come down to the ace match. The closet match with probably be Jinro and SjoW. Jinro is just simply better.
In my opinion, there are some common mistakes people in this thread are making. First, SjoW's TvT is not untouchable. Yes, SjoW did VERY well in TvT in IEM. But he also dropped a BO3 0-2 to EmpireDiestar recently in one of those 1v1 tournaments in the 4Players League (source here). Sure SjoW is one of the best in Europe and had a good TvT run recently. But people are just giving him too much credit for his TvT.
The second mistake is underestimating Tyler. It sucks that he has been off recently, but if he's been practicing he'll take Naniwa apart with some midgame timing attack. Tyler seems to have a knack for developing extremely powerful midgame pushes (see Complexity V 1v1 #1 where he destroys Drewbie) and if he's dedicated enough time to prepare for this match it will be no contest.
On February 04 2011 05:06 [Atomic]Peace wrote: If Tyler brings his A game it'll go 3-1, with Ret losing his ZvZ. Tyler has been off lately though, so if he drops his game it'll come down to the ace match. The closet match with probably be Jinro and SjoW. Jinro is just simply better.
In my opinion, there are some common mistakes people in this thread are making. First, SjoW's TvT is not untouchable. Yes, SjoW did VERY well in TvT in IEM. But he also dropped a BO3 0-2 to EmpireDiestar recently in one of those 1v1 tournaments in the 4Players League (source here). Sure SjoW is one of the best in Europe and had a good TvT run recently. But people are just giving him too much credit for his TvT.
The second mistake is underestimating Tyler. It sucks that he has been off recently, but if he's been practicing he'll take Naniwa apart with some midgame timing attack. Tyler seems to have a knack for developing extremely powerful midgame pushes (see Complexity V 1v1 #1 where he destroys Drewbie) and if he's dedicated enough time to prepare for this match it will be no contest.
You sir and under estimating Naniwa, His PvP one of the strongest and he is on fire unlike tyler who is having a bit of a slump. But all we can do is predict, the outcome could be quite surprising.
Liquid`Tyler <Blistering Sands> dNaniwa - depends which tyler shows up really =\ Liquid`Ret <Shakuras> dKiLLeR Liquid`TLO <Xel Naga>dSeleCT Liquid`Jinro <Jungle Basin> dSjoW think this will be a good match, with sjow being offensive and jinro finally just out macro and out playing him in the long stretch.
LOL at all the mirror matches haha! I was looking down the list and i was like woah those are all some kick ass match ups!
I think liquid could go 3-1 but it would be really tough ask.. However i have a lot of faith
Liquid`Tyler <Blistering Sands> dNaniwa - not that Tyler isn't awesome, Nani is on a roll Liquid`Ret <Shakuras> dKiLLeR - Ret.4.ZvZ Liquid`TLO <Xel Naga> dSeleCT - race picking TLO means business, plus TL open result Liquid`Jinro <Jungle Basin> dSjoW - who would bet against Jinro? Ace <Metalopolis> Ace
The people saying Tyler is "having a bit of a slump", can you expound upon this or substantiate it? I might have missed some stuff but from what I've seen he hasn't been doing bad lately.
If it is just a feeling you have which you can't substantiate, I recommend against making such statements in general.
Like others have said; I think this will be very close, but I am rooting for Liquid.
On February 04 2011 07:24 Jonas wrote: My god, I can't believe this is real. 4 epic mirror matches and then the Ace match? Who is the Ace for each team? anyone know?
EDIT: Ace match is apparently Sjow vs TLO. Oh man
Wow. I would've said TLO was one of Liquid's weaker players. (While SjoW is perhaps dignitas' best)
this matchup is gonna be great! predicting nony < naniwa ret > killer (hopefully lag doesn't hurt micro for ret!) TLO < select Jinro v Sjow could go either way I think.. sjow is on a pretty big TvT dominatnig streak though
On February 04 2011 07:19 Dystisis wrote: The people saying Tyler is "having a bit of a slump", can you expound upon this or substantiate it? I might have missed some stuff but from what I've seen he hasn't been doing bad lately.
If it is just a feeling you have which you can't substantiate, I recommend against making such statements in general.
Like others have said; I think this will be very close, but I am rooting for Liquid.
he plays wow too much. JKJK. yeah hes not really in a slump, don't know what they are talking about
If Jinro doesn't win I'm not only going to be disappointed for Team Liquid, but upset that SjoW will think he has more of a chance in the GSL than he already does.
On February 04 2011 07:19 Dystisis wrote: The people saying Tyler is "having a bit of a slump", can you expound upon this or substantiate it? I might have missed some stuff but from what I've seen he hasn't been doing bad lately.
If it is just a feeling you have which you can't substantiate, I recommend against making such statements in general.
Like others have said; I think this will be very close, but I am rooting for Liquid.
he plays wow too much. JKJK. yeah hes not really in a slump, don't know what they are talking about
I know you're joking but I think he's playing WoW a lot because this is sort of the off-season for NA esports. Tyler doesn't seem interested in any of the smaller events so we'll have to wait for MLG to start-up again. Assembly and TSL will be good previews of his skill though.
On February 04 2011 08:20 SpaceJam wrote: If Jinro doesn't win I'm not only going to be disappointed for Team Liquid, but upset that SjoW will think he has more of a chance in the GSL than he already does.
I'm saying that it will be misleading for him T_T
Why the sjoiw hate?
----
As for Tyler "slumping" I think it's just because he's not played a whole lot of tournaments lately, and with the amount of events in SC2, then if you aren't one of those guys playing a lot and in the finals of streamed events regularly then people make presumptions.
Tyler I haven't really seen doing to much lately on the other hand NaNiwa has. NaNiwa for sure.
Ret is amazing I'm a fan so probs a little bias but w/e KiLLeR looks good lately but not enough imo. Ret Wins.
TLO has been meh for me lately not doing all to well but still killing it he has a chance but SeleCt is just to good to lose this set. Select Wins.
Jinro back to back ro4 appearances and looking good in both even though going down 3-1 and 4-0 but thats against MKP and MC... Sjow is doing well to say the least hes ripping shit up so im not taking him out of this race yet but Jinro seems better. Jinro barely still a chance for Sjow.
Ace: If it goes to ace im going for Liquid as long as Jinro, Ret come out if Tyler or TLO come out its very dependent on who they face. If Sjow Select NaNiwa come out then will its gunna be close again... To say the least I think Dignitas will pull it off but im on the post. Undecided.
Tyler>nani, Tyler mentioned that he's super confident in PvP on SOTG, I expect the best PvP in the universe. ret>Killer, ret and idra worked together on their ZvZ style, it's super strong. TLO<SeleCT, the numbers predict SeleCT to take this one. Jinro>SjoW, think jinro because of superior practice partners, hope SjoW for an awesome ace match <3
Bad luck for Killer, I think his worst MU is ZvZ. Any other non mirror match up, I would have gone for him, but Ret is very good. Either way im rooting for him . Overall I think Liquid takes this.
Tyler I haven't really seen doing to much lately on the other hand NaNiwa has. NaNiwa for sure.
Ret is amazing I'm a fan so probs a little bias but w/e KiLLeR looks good lately but not enough imo. Ret Wins.
TLO has been meh for me lately not doing all to well but still killing it he has a chance but SeleCt is just to good to lose this set. Select Wins.
Jinro back to back ro4 appearances and looking good in both even though going down 3-1 and 4-0 but thats against MKP and MC... Sjow is doing well to say the least hes ripping shit up so im not taking him out of this race yet but Jinro seems better. Jinro barely still a chance for Sjow.
Ace: If it goes to ace im going for Liquid as long as Jinro, Ret come out if Tyler or TLO come out its very dependent on who they face. If Sjow Select NaNiwa come out then will its gunna be close again... To say the least I think Dignitas will pull it off but im on the post. Undecided.
TLO has been meh for you lately? really? #1 rank in the world in ladder, getting in the semis and quarters back to back in the tlo open,etc. All that with random. TLO is the favorite here IMO.
Tyler I haven't really seen doing to much lately on the other hand NaNiwa has. NaNiwa for sure.
Ret is amazing I'm a fan so probs a little bias but w/e KiLLeR looks good lately but not enough imo. Ret Wins.
TLO has been meh for me lately not doing all to well but still killing it he has a chance but SeleCt is just to good to lose this set. Select Wins.
Jinro back to back ro4 appearances and looking good in both even though going down 3-1 and 4-0 but thats against MKP and MC... Sjow is doing well to say the least hes ripping shit up so im not taking him out of this race yet but Jinro seems better. Jinro barely still a chance for Sjow.
Ace: If it goes to ace im going for Liquid as long as Jinro, Ret come out if Tyler or TLO come out its very dependent on who they face. If Sjow Select NaNiwa come out then will its gunna be close again... To say the least I think Dignitas will pull it off but im on the post. Undecided.
TLO has been meh for you lately? really? #1 rank in the world in ladder, getting in the semis and quarters back to back in the tlo open,etc. All that with random. TLO is the favorite here IMO.
LOL everyone is forgetting that TLO just beat Select in the TL Open???
On February 04 2011 11:56 ALang wrote: What's with all these GCPL matches being mirrors? It seems like each week at least 3/4 are mirrors.
Each team gets to pick which player plays on which map, so they usually stick the "strongest race" for each map on that map. This results in a lot of mirrors as zergs like shakuras, terrans like jungle basin, ect.
this is going to be awesome.. predictions: Tyler < NaNiwa Ret > KilleR TLO < SeLeCT Jinro < SjoW
reasoning: tyler is a good toss but i feel like his hearts not totally in the game right now, naniwa is relentless and practicing nonstop to be a top toss while tyler is just along for the pro-gaming ride. Few no brainers, Ret should easily beat Killer and i haven't really seen many TLO tvt's to convince me that he can beat select. As for SjoW beating Jinro? I like jinro but I think SjoW can do it.
On February 04 2011 11:56 ALang wrote: What's with all these GCPL matches being mirrors? It seems like each week at least 3/4 are mirrors.
Each team gets to pick which player plays on which map, so they usually stick the "strongest race" for each map on that map. This results in a lot of mirrors as zergs like shakuras, terrans like jungle basin, ect.
TLO has been meh for me lately not doing all to well but still killing it he has a chance but SeleCt is just to good to lose this set. Select Wins.
What!? Have you even been following the e-sports scene last month? TLO won the 5000€ PokerIdol.Com Tourney in London beating guess who: SELECT and SJOW in semis, UB finals and overall finals. Then he tore thru TSL 4 qualifier with random, losing in the finals 2-3 to White-Ra (beating him in PvP twice), and a few days ago he got #1 Rank Global Ladder beating top-notch dudes left and right.
You know, that doesn't neccessarily make TLO the best player nor a granted win over SeleCT (again), but
"TLO has been meh for me lately not doing all to well" is a stupid statement.
Liquid`Tyler<Blistering Sands> dNaniwaPvp, so its really a toss up, but as of now I think Naniwa is going to go for a 4 gate and beat tyler. Liquid`Ret <Shakuras> dKiLLeR-Don't know much about killer, so just going with ret. Especially since Ret is macro oriented, so any possible "cheeses/allins" which killer might win with will be mostly negated on such a long map Liquid`TLO<Xel Naga> dSeleCT-probably going to be the closest match, but I really think TLO is going to pull this out. Theres like 40% chance select will win, and 60% TLO will win. Select is beast at TvT, but theres a reason why TLO chooses T when he faces a T: its his best MU. Liquid`Jinro<Jungle Basin> dSjoW-Pretty safe bet I think .Both are good, but jinro just has the uperhand in both mechanics and skill wise.
This is going to be an epic match, all of these games are way too close to call. Interesting that TLO is playing Terran, since XelNaga caverns isn't a particularly Terran favoured map, I suppose Select's TvP is so strong that he didn't want to risk random.
On February 04 2011 12:56 Pandain wrote: Liquid`Tyler<Blistering Sands> dNaniwaPvp, so its really a toss up, but as of now I think Naniwa is going to go for a 4 gate and beat tyler. Check!
Liquid`Ret <Shakuras> dKiLLeR-Don't know much about killer, so just going with ret. Especially since Ret is macro oriented, so any possible "cheeses/allins" which killer might win with will be mostly negated on such a long map Liquid`TLO<Xel Naga> dSeleCT-probably going to be the closest match, but I really think TLO is going to pull this out. Theres like 40% chance select will win, and 60% TLO will win. Select is beast at TvT, but theres a reason why TLO chooses T when he faces a T: its his best MU. Liquid`Jinro<Jungle Basin> dSjoW-Pretty safe bet I think .Both are good, but jinro just has the uperhand in both mechanics and skill wise.
Poor tyler, that build is so hard to deal with. But Naniwa has just such refined, brutal 4 gates, no matter how cheap/allin they are.
On February 04 2011 13:21 PSA wrote: Wow, great cheese by Naniwa.
its the standard korean 4warpgate rush. I hear its becoming a little more popular again on EU but it's easily countered most of the time.
Yeah I actually remember your LP article on it soon after Tester did it to HuK in KotB. It's so strong against people that haven't seen it before I'm surprised I haven't run in to it too much on the ladder.
Tyler's fault, really, for pulling his scout out for no particular reason. You're supposed to keep your scout in base till you know a stalker is on the way...he just left.
On February 04 2011 13:26 kagemucha wrote: Are any of these matches live? They seem like they're just replays...
Doubtful since many of the Liquid guys are in Korea and lots of the Dignitas guys are in Europe. Kinda hard to have a live match that fits perfectly for the players and the viewers from 3 different continents.
it's ZvZ and ret, it's his Achilles heal and ultimate downfall throughout history. The universe just loves to make Ret get screwed over / lose in ZvZ matches so I gotta give this to killer even though Ret is imo way better.
Ret with the sick macro to overcome Killer. Even with the defender's advantage, Ret was able to rally more roaches to the ultimate battle, due to a huge drone lead.
Liquid`Tyler<Blistering Sands> dNaniwaPvp, so its really a toss up, but as of now I think Naniwa is going to go for a 4 gate and beat tyler. Check!
Liquid`Ret <Shakuras> dKiLLeR-Don't know much about killer, so just going with ret. Especially since Ret is macro oriented, so any possible "cheeses/allins" which killer might win with will be mostly negated on such a long mapCheck! Liquid`TLO<Xel Naga> dSeleCT-probably going to be the closest match, but I really think TLO is going to pull this out. Theres like 40% chance select will win, and 60% TLO will win. Select is beast at TvT, but theres a reason why TLO chooses T when he faces a T: its his best MU. TLO: Will do something funky, emphasis on helions as harras players. Will transition into mostly mech into the mid-late game. Select: remain more bio throughout the game, doing multidrops. Liquid`Jinro<Jungle Basin> dSjoW-Pretty safe bet I think .Both are good, but jinro just has the uperhand in both mechanics and skill wise. Jinro will just play standard, getting base after base, and win after Sjow gets his third.
Just realized in order to truly be boss I have to predict how each player will play.
dont' know if tlo timed that out to arrive just before select's siege finished but if he did then wow. great timing on the attack, think it might be only a matter of time now for the victory.
On February 04 2011 13:49 ilbh wrote: TLO does the SCV trick to mine from nearest minerals with 2 SCVs, it's a small macro advantage but it is awesome.
Liquid`Tyler<Blistering Sands> dNaniwaPvp, so its really a toss up, but as of now I think Naniwa is going to go for a 4 gate and beat tyler. Check!
Liquid`Ret <Shakuras> dKiLLeR-Don't know much about killer, so just going with ret. Especially since Ret is macro oriented, so any possible "cheeses/allins" which killer might win with will be mostly negated on such a long mapCheck! Liquid`TLO<Xel Naga> dSeleCT-probably going to be the closest match, but I really think TLO is going to pull this out. Theres like 40% chance select will win, and 60% TLO will win. Select is beast at TvT, but theres a reason why TLO chooses T when he faces a T: its his best MU. TLO: Will do something funky, emphasis on helions as harras players. Will transition into mostly mech into the mid-late game. Select: remain more bio throughout the game, doing multidrops. Half credit! Predict the winner, but TLO is too awesome for me to guess his playstyle. Liquid`Jinro<Jungle Basin> dSjoW-Pretty safe bet I think .Both are good, but jinro just has the uperhand in both mechanics and skill wise. Jinro will just play standard, getting base after base, and win after Sjow gets his third.
Omg TLO plays so beautifully! Constant swarm of maruders trading armies, and he could because he was so far ahead in income, as well as getting a 4th base.
the streamer needs to cover the replay duration when changing replays. i saw the replay duration on the last 3 series and it really killed the viewing experience. tried letting the streamers in chat know after g2 but ended up getting banned by a cute mod.
On February 04 2011 13:49 ilbh wrote: TLO does the SCV trick to mine from nearest minerals with 2 SCVs, it's a small macro advantage but it is awesome.
whats this? :O source?
Basically you have some mineral patches that are closer to your CC than others. You immediately double up workers to mine from them to maximise income. Very small advantage and I'm not really sure it makes a difference.
Whoever is casting these replays should try to hide the game length and try to avoid the replay loading screen. Now we know that there's no replay for an ace match, Liquid won 3-1 and the last game was 11 minutes long.
Whoever is casting these replays should try to hide the game length and try to avoid the replay loading screen. Now we know that there's no replay for an ace match, Liquid won 3-1 and the last game was 11 minutes long.
Whoever is casting these replays should try to hide the game length and try to avoid the replay loading screen. Now we know that there's no replay for an ace match, Liquid won 3-1 and the last game was 11 minutes long.
Based on the way this game is going it's going to be tough for this to actually end up being true. Based on the time it is actually impossible now.
Whoever is casting these replays should try to hide the game length and try to avoid the replay loading screen. Now we know that there's no replay for an ace match, Liquid won 3-1 and the last game was 11 minutes long.
Whoever is casting these replays should try to hide the game length and try to avoid the replay loading screen. Now we know that there's no replay for an ace match, Liquid won 3-1 and the last game was 11 minutes long.
On February 04 2011 13:49 ilbh wrote: TLO does the SCV trick to mine from nearest minerals with 2 SCVs, it's a small macro advantage but it is awesome.
whats this? :O source?
Basically you have some mineral patches that are closer to your CC than others. You immediately double up workers to mine from them to maximise income. Very small advantage and I'm not really sure it makes a difference.
edit: apparently it does. slightly....
in this game, TLO vs Select you could see the Production tab that TLO had his SCV and barracks made like 0.5 sec faster than Select.
in the end, TLO had siege mode faster than Select, but I'm not sure if it was because of the little trick.
the trick: keep right clicking the nearest mineral patch with the SCV just built when you already have one SCV on it and when this one is returning the "new" one will start mining. if you do that for all your nearest mineral patches you will always have 2 SCVs mining from nearest mineral patches.
think jinro just gg'ed out of frustration, probably would build a second turret at main/natural if he could go back. Also wasted 2 scan's. either way 2-2 can't wait to see this ace match, between the top two teams point wise.
Liquid`Tyler<Blistering Sands> dNaniwaPvp, so its really a toss up, but as of now I think Naniwa is going to go for a 4 gate and beat tyler. Check!
Liquid`Ret <Shakuras> dKiLLeR-Don't know much about killer, so just going with ret. Especially since Ret is macro oriented, so any possible "cheeses/allins" which killer might win with will be mostly negated on such a long mapCheck! Liquid`TLO<Xel Naga> dSeleCT-probably going to be the closest match, but I really think TLO is going to pull this out. Theres like 40% chance select will win, and 60% TLO will win. Select is beast at TvT, but theres a reason why TLO chooses T when he faces a T: its his best MU. TLO: Will do something funky, emphasis on helions as harras players. Will transition into mostly mech into the mid-late game. Select: remain more bio throughout the game, doing multidrops. Half credit! Predict the winner, but TLO is too awesome for me to guess his playstyle. Liquid`Jinro<Jungle Basin> dSjoW-Pretty safe bet I think .Both are good, but jinro just has the uperhand in both mechanics and skill wise. Jinro will just play standard, getting base after base, and win after Sjow gets his third. Failure!
curious to see the scv count when jinro gg'd. although he did lose that army at the xel naga, but i think that 9 kill banshee put him ahead in harvesters, but still he was 1 base down and at an army disadvantage.
That Jinro gg'ed so fast just strengthens my belief that he was lagging horribly. The scans that were way off and the horrible timings from him is very unlike him, cant believe it was anything but lag.
On February 04 2011 14:10 TheCrow wrote: That Jinro gg'ed so fast just strengthens my belief that he was lagging horribly. The scans that were way off and the horrible timings from him is very unlike him, cant believe it was anything but lag.
Yeah, that was very uncharacteristic. His predetermined defense was excellent, so I can't believe he was surprised by what happened.
Where is select currently located around the globe? Curious about the lag issues, where they're coming from and If there's a better middle ground for the players to meet on.
Like if lag from EU-Korea is worse than NA-Korea, could Sjow and Jinro have both played on NA instead?
A single sensor tower completely solves those drops. Jinro still in a great spot though with far positions. The longer this game goes the better he should get.
I would really have liked to have seen select elevator into 8:30 base for high ground to shoot at the 9 oclock expansion base rather than try to run through the middle. As an added benefit he would have found the 5th base and stopped it from getting up and going.
great game by both players. I can see more games like this, they both have incredible endurance as shown in past tournaments. Maybe just being greedy as i want more epic tvt lol.
If you saw his micro. You could see he was paining to do the fine micros with his marines. The vikings are fine, they are easy to micro under lag, but the marines made me wanna cry.
On February 04 2011 14:54 Jombozeus wrote: I felt so much lag from Jinro's side...
If you saw his micro. You could see he was paining to do the fine micros with his marines. The vikings are fine, they are easy to micro under lag, but the marines made me wanna cry.
On February 04 2011 14:54 Jombozeus wrote: I felt so much lag from Jinro's side...
If you saw his micro. You could see he was paining to do the fine micros with his marines. The vikings are fine, they are easy to micro under lag, but the marines made me wanna cry.
Both Jinro and SeleCT are in Korea.
Last i heard select is already back in the US.
Edit: also all his recnet ladder game are on the US server
I feel like the difference between the top of the top gamers and not so top apart from macro/micro mechanics is a star-sense to scout for unusual play, make the right scans, etc. That was so gosu to find the proxy banshee there, wow.
On February 04 2011 15:07 meowmasta wrote: The multi-tasking by both of these guys is ridiculous, I'm speechless.
Jinro didn't really do much. He was just run around by Select.
Yeah, I guess so, for the most part. In that game, Select's multi-pronged harass coming from all sides was the difference-makers, especially since Jinro again left his base unguarded without any sieged tanks or bio units.
The 15 hour timezone from Korea to Europe is very evident at the moment.
People forget that the Korean internet crosses to the US to the EU. It doesn't go through the middle east or Russian mefriends. The lag from Asia to EU is at least 1 second latency.
On February 04 2011 15:29 Tachion wrote: Can anyone confirm where Select is? I've heard hes still in Korea, and also that he's back in the US.
I think he's back in the US. He laddered for a few days on the NA server, and is already Nr. 1 by a wide margin on the master server with a 72 % win rate.
On February 04 2011 15:29 Tachion wrote: Can anyone confirm where Select is? I've heard hes still in Korea, and also that he's back in the US.
I think he's back in the US. He laddered for a few days on the NA server, and is already Nr. 1 by a wide margin on the master server with a 72 % win rate.
Laddering on the NA server does not meen you are in the US .. i am pretty sure he is in Korea
On February 04 2011 15:29 Tachion wrote: Can anyone confirm where Select is? I've heard hes still in Korea, and also that he's back in the US.
I think he's back in the US. He laddered for a few days on the NA server, and is already Nr. 1 by a wide margin on the master server with a 72 % win rate.
Laddering on the NA server does not meen you are in the US .. i am pretty sure he is in Korea
True, but I heard he came back to the US to continue his studies. Don't know where I read it though, so I guess don't quote me on this.
I wish select would use a nuke or seomthing to break the contain, think it would work really well. He still keeps himself in these games though with good drops.
On February 04 2011 15:29 Tachion wrote: Can anyone confirm where Select is? I've heard hes still in Korea, and also that he's back in the US.
I think he's back in the US. He laddered for a few days on the NA server, and is already Nr. 1 by a wide margin on the master server with a 72 % win rate.
Laddering on the NA server does not meen you are in the US .. i am pretty sure he is in Korea
On February 04 2011 15:29 Tachion wrote: Can anyone confirm where Select is? I've heard hes still in Korea, and also that he's back in the US.
I think he's back in the US. He laddered for a few days on the NA server, and is already Nr. 1 by a wide margin on the master server with a 72 % win rate.
Laddering on the NA server does not meen you are in the US .. i am pretty sure he is in Korea
True, but I heard he came back to the US to continue his studies. Don't know where I read it though, so I guess don't quote me on this.
On February 04 2011 15:29 Tachion wrote: Can anyone confirm where Select is? I've heard hes still in Korea, and also that he's back in the US.
I think he's back in the US. He laddered for a few days on the NA server, and is already Nr. 1 by a wide margin on the master server with a 72 % win rate.
Laddering on the NA server does not meen you are in the US .. i am pretty sure he is in Korea
but a 72% winrate might suggest so.
On February 04 2011 15:34 drewbie.root wrote: select is in the USA and he has been for more than 2 weeks now
My apologies .. i completely read that as "where is Jinro" - so my bad haha
GG very dissapointing play by Jinro. I mean you can say SelecT played well, but rather you should expect better multitasking at that level. I don't think Jinro won any micro battles in that series.
Either way, very entertaining series just poorly played =/
Great games...but it's got to be said, Sheth is pretty painful to listen to. Hard to say if it's a lack of vocabulary or wit...but he drags the cast down every time he talks.
Selects harass is extremely impressive. His multi-pronged attacks all over the map are the strongest part of his game. Its what kept him in game 1 and it certainly helped him come back in game 3.
Very very impressive from SeleCT, haven't seen anything from him recently, but that has cemented the fact in the my mind he's definitely 'back', if he ever left.
On February 04 2011 15:38 Skillz_Man wrote: GG very dissapointing play by Jinro. I mean you can say SelecT played well, but rather you should expect better multitasking at that level. I don't think Jinro won any micro battles in that series.
Either way, very entertaining series just poorly played =/
where is select right now?
if jinro is dealing with korean lag that could explain why he would loose all the micro battles.
k, well I guess tahts why he's the ace for dignitas. Fantastic series by both. I don't even know how select won this game after being down the entire time basically.
GG. Awesome comeback from SeleCT. I think Jinro got a little sloppy during the mid-game and seemed to be continually set back from SeleCTs constant harass.
On February 04 2011 15:38 Skillz_Man wrote: GG very dissapointing play by Jinro. I mean you can say SelecT played well, but rather you should expect better multitasking at that level. I don't think Jinro won any micro battles in that series.
Either way, very entertaining series just poorly played =/
where is select right now?
if jinro is dealing with korean lag that could explain why he would loose all the micro battles.
Select is in the US and it was on the NA server i believe..
On February 04 2011 15:38 DarkRise wrote: jinro played so passive Awesome play from Select
I would say that Jinro's aggressiveness actually lost him that game...if he just stayed back, defended the harass, and took his 3rd base earlier instead of holding a pointless weak contain, he would have been in much better shape.
wowowowowow that was an unbelievable series from both guys it almost seemed like jinro was tired or physically worn down by that monster multitasking pleeeeeeease release replays! <3<3
SelecT is awesome no question, but i guess that lag played a big thing. in those tank wars lag makes the difference, and i guarantee that lag was there, as jinro nearly dropped after 10minutes.
I believe Jinro would have taken this game in a LAN environment.
wow, that was a nice comeback by select. yes, jinro did some mistakes, but also select perfectly grabbed the small window of opportunity to push towards jinros natural. i was suprised how sloppy jinro was about his expos and scvs.
On February 04 2011 15:38 Skillz_Man wrote: GG very dissapointing play by Jinro. I mean you can say SelecT played well, but rather you should expect better multitasking at that level. I don't think Jinro won any micro battles in that series.
Either way, very entertaining series just poorly played =/
where is select right now?
if jinro is dealing with korean lag that could explain why he would loose all the micro battles.
Select is in the US and it was on the NA server i believe..
then there is the explanation on why jinro lost all the micro battles.
On February 04 2011 15:38 Skillz_Man wrote: GG very dissapointing play by Jinro. I mean you can say SelecT played well, but rather you should expect better multitasking at that level. I don't think Jinro won any micro battles in that series.
Either way, very entertaining series just poorly played =/
where is select right now?
if jinro is dealing with korean lag that could explain why he would loose all the micro battles.
Potentially, I do think Select is in NA atm, he did come back from korea. But I mean Jinro didn't ever attack more than one position at a time, and he had an extremely hard time dealing with drops (which Select did use very well)
Jinro made soo many mistakes. I know that Incontrol said that Jinro was playing at his top level, but his macro in the final game was simply terrible. But Select's play was phenomenal to even be able to bridge the massive difference between those positions.
Yeah holding the contain within that choke outside the natural was just a big distraction for Jinro - Fact of the matter is he wasn't doing anything to slow a 3base terran...
Yeah, don't want to make excuses for Jinro but that looked like a ton of lag. All of his reactions seemed several seconds late, which isn't something you would expect from a player like Jinro. I definitely think that was his game to win and a lot of lag probably frustrated him when he had to deal with Select's insane harass.
On February 04 2011 15:39 Tiel wrote: I have never been so happy to have blown off laddering to watch a stream before in my life XD epic casting and epic games holy crap
Amen to that! I was sad to see jinro lose though. Especially after such an impressive game 1. And especially after the lead he had in game 3.
Lag between NA and Korea is actually not supposed to be as bad as between EU and Korea. Still, I'd be interested in hearing Jinro's thoughts about those matches.
On February 04 2011 15:38 DarkRise wrote: jinro played so passive Awesome play from Select
Jinro has never been an aggressive player, he usually turtles up and makes his opponent attack him, but for some reason he was the aggressor this game
I think he ment more harass by aggresion. Afterall, Jinro sieged near his opponents nat and Select somehow always managed to kill a tank if he moved up, and killed Jinros if Jinro moved up. But the harass Select did was insane, I mean his banshee, killing 20 scvs like twice, the marines at gold... Jinro just didn't manage to kill any scvs
On February 04 2011 15:44 Azarkon wrote: Lag between NA and Korea is actually not supposed to be as bad as between EU and Korea. Still, I'd be interested in hearing Jinro's thoughts about those matches.
i heard otherwise, but it would be interesting to know how the ping is between the server regions
That was a super entertaining series, but man... what's with Jinro in these team tournies? The dude takes back to back ro4's in the GSL, handily beats oGsMC the WINNER of GSLs2, and then starts dropping games left and right in the foreign leagues!
I always took for granted that the Korean scene was at least a BIT better than the foreign scene, but now I'm really not so sure... is Jinro just underperforming or are the top foreigners really up there with the top Koreans?
edit: A lot of people are mentioning lag. I guess that could definitely explain Jinro's disapointing performances in these team leagues since nearly every series (unless TL plays Prime I guess) could potentially lag for him. : /
On February 04 2011 15:47 Fighter wrote: That was a super entertaining series, but man... what's with Jinro in these team tournies? The dude takes back to back ro4's in the GSL, handily beats oGsMC the WINNER of GSLs2, and then starts dropping games left and right in the foreign leagues!
I always took for granted that the Korean scene was at least a BIT better than the foreign scene, but now I'm really not so sure... is Jinro just underperforming or are the top foreigners really up there with the top Koreans?
There's a reason why Huk refuses to play in foreign tournaments. It's the lag. Terran is a micro intensive race. Lag just sucks.
On February 04 2011 15:46 InRainbows wrote: lag or no lag, he still came back from a HUGE deficit. That was seriously the best comeback I've ever seen.
I don't want to diminish Select's play, because Select did play great, but the entire match basically was decided when Select moved in to the gold and killed all of the scvs. Jinro had already been playing pretty sloppily but he could have easily won riding his econ advantage, if only his scvs hadn't been killed.
On February 04 2011 15:49 trashcan wrote: Game really showed that mechanics still counts. No offense to Jinro but Select is obviously the superior player mechanically.
Select said it himself that he used the lag advantage -_-
For those who haven't played with cross-server lag before, here's the problem. Not only the micro is the problem, it takes a massive toll on your macro.
For example, when you make 20 marines in region server, it takes 3 seconds of spamming. From Asia to NA, it takes double the time. All that adds up to an intolerable level that puts you off all your timings. If you've never played under this condition, dont. It sucks.
On February 04 2011 15:49 trashcan wrote: Game really showed that mechanics still counts. No offense to Jinro but Select is obviously the superior player mechanically.
Select said it himself that he used the lag advantage -_-
It really seemed like Jinro was tired after the first ace match. He played absolutely immaculately in set 1 of the ace, but he lost the next two games through some rather sloppy mistakes and some lucky banshees from Select. I have a feeling that Jinro's best wasn't shown tonight, and Select capitalized on this by being all over the place and harassing the crap out of an already fatigued Jinro.
Anyways, this was a very nice clan match, especially the ace matches. Some of the best macro-based TvTs ever played in SC2.
I'm glad I caught this clan war, even if it meant missing a homework deadline by over one hour.
On February 04 2011 15:49 trashcan wrote: Game really showed that mechanics still counts. No offense to Jinro but Select is obviously the superior player mechanically.
?
He kept losing micro wars, most likely due to some pretty obvious lag, having units sniped off constantly. He was pretty dominant but Select didn't really come back due to any superior mechanics, that was purely a matter of micro versus a handicapped player. The graph shows that Jinro was ahead the entire time, 19 kill banshee or not. Big congrats to SelecT but we have seen some insane micro from Jinro in the GSL, to the point that MarineKingPrime has remarked on it, and good luck persuading people that Select is better than MKP.
It's not like SeleCT is that far behind Jinro and the top Koreans in general anyways. The guy played in Korea for a couple months if I'm not mistaken and was a the top of the KR ladder, which is no small feat seeing as all the top Koreans ladder for hours a day.
We already knew that Select has epic endurance after his ridiculous run at MLG, and this just really shows how he can maintain a high level of play for a grueling series. Props
On February 04 2011 15:49 trashcan wrote: Game really showed that mechanics still counts. No offense to Jinro but Select is obviously the superior player mechanically.
Select said it himself that he used the lag advantage -_-
Ooo wait, did he say that in the interview? I got distracted and must have missed that.. what exactly did he say? I'm a little curious how one could abuse lag. I mean, I can kinda see it, I'm just wondering how exactly.
On February 04 2011 15:49 trashcan wrote: Game really showed that mechanics still counts. No offense to Jinro but Select is obviously the superior player mechanically.
Select said it himself that he used the lag advantage -_-
Ooo wait, did he say that in the interview? I got distracted and must have missed that.. what exactly did he say? I'm a little curious how one could abuse lag. I mean, I can kinda see it, I'm just wondering how exactly.
He said that he was in the US and I believe he said he was chosen instead of Sjow, who was in Europe, because the tournament was on the NA servers. Lag can mess up timings badly and make it nearly impossible to perform high level micro when you're two seconds behind the other guy.
On February 04 2011 15:49 trashcan wrote: Game really showed that mechanics still counts. No offense to Jinro but Select is obviously the superior player mechanically.
?
He kept losing micro wars, most likely due to some pretty obvious lag, having units sniped off constantly. He was pretty dominant but Select didn't really come back due to any superior mechanics, that was purely a matter of micro versus a handicapped player. The graph shows that Jinro was ahead the entire time, 19 kill banshee or not. Big congrats to SelecT but we have seen some insane micro from Jinro in the GSL, to the point that MarineKingPrime has remarked on it, and good luck persuading people that Select is better than MKP.
As shown though, Jinro obviously wasn't macroing as well as he could have. There were points in each of the games when he did not have sufficient saturation at each of his bases (ex.: his 3rd base during the Metalopolis game, and the base in the Delta Quad game). Now obviously Select did use latency to his advantage, but he was also macroing more than Jinro, especially in that last game. Jinro just underestimated Select's ability to keep focus on the game from a pretty bad situation. He could have easily won, but Select pulled out a great come from behind victory.
On February 04 2011 16:04 iNcontroL wrote: Guys...that...was...fucking....amazing.
Thanks to all that tuned in. I had so much fun casting that.
I'd love feedback about my casting as well. I am always striving to improve!!
The casting was great as always just some technical problems like the sound being out of sync, being late in the start because of sound problems, showing how long the game will be before it started.
On February 04 2011 16:05 Rabiator wrote: This match gets 12 out of 10 points for pure epicness. A true "must see" for SC2 fans and I am glad to have been there live ...
agreed, I had planned to watch the whole thing, but forgot about it and tuned in to the end of the first ace match game and figured I had missed everything, but I am soooo happy that I watched the whole series
On February 04 2011 15:49 trashcan wrote: Game really showed that mechanics still counts. No offense to Jinro but Select is obviously the superior player mechanically.
?
He kept losing micro wars, most likely due to some pretty obvious lag, having units sniped off constantly. He was pretty dominant but Select didn't really come back due to any superior mechanics, that was purely a matter of micro versus a handicapped player. The graph shows that Jinro was ahead the entire time, 19 kill banshee or not. Big congrats to SelecT but we have seen some insane micro from Jinro in the GSL, to the point that MarineKingPrime has remarked on it, and good luck persuading people that Select is better than MKP.
As shown though, Jinro obviously wasn't macroing as well as he could have. There were points in each of the games when he did not have sufficient saturation at each of his bases (ex.: his 3rd base during the Metalopolis game, and the base in the Delta Quad game). Now obviously Select did use latency to his advantage, but he was also macroing more than Jinro, especially in that last game. Jinro just underestimated Select's ability to keep focus on the game from a pretty bad situation. He could have easily won, but Select pulled out a great come from behind victory.
I don't recall exactly but I think Jinro had at least one more base, maybe two. Hard to make workers when you're trying to keep up a contain and pumping units, and then I imagine from then he would just drone up hard with the two gold advantage. Jinro just said microing in lag is a joke, he had a definite mechanics advantage. Despite SelecT having more harvesters he still never broke Jinro's lead on the game until near the end. SelecT is an excellent player but that wasn't some brilliant taking-the-gold hidden expo or doom drop into his base like we've seen lose him other games while ahead. His play against MKP shut him down hard until MKP pulled out an all-or-nothing trick, I don't see SelecT having won this in a LAN setting.
It was a good comeback but I honestly don't feel much hype over it's epicness when it disappointingly came down to the leading player being unable to play to his full potential.
On February 04 2011 16:04 iNcontroL wrote: Guys...that...was...fucking....amazing.
Thanks to all that tuned in. I had so much fun casting that.
I'd love feedback about my casting as well. I am always striving to improve!!
Did great overall. The only bit of constructive criticism would be, and this could be personal taste, but in times when you may feel overwhelmed (Octo-select) don't be afraid to use the tab menu up top to check on more rudimentary things. Now you could have been doing this the entire time and I was just paying too much attention to the action. That data could even just be another source of talking points in more mellow times. Again, just a friendly suggestion. But very good overall, and would like to see more.
I'd love feedback about my casting as well. I am always striving to improve!!
imo the camera/missed stuff was the only stuff to complain about. maybe tell your co commentator to have a look out for it and jump in even if he has to interrupt one of your ramblings.
other then that i love it. i get the same feeling like when watching tastosis, day etc commentate. fun entertainment with some good insight from someone who knows and loves the game.
great war overall. totally worth watching it at 5 in the morning ~
I don't think there's any shame in Jinro losing the two matches - especially considering the KR->NA latency. Anyway it's not like he lost to some random noobs, SeleCT and SjoW are really in the top tier of foreigners (if SeleCT counts as a foreigner anyway ).
On February 04 2011 16:04 iNcontroL wrote: Guys...that...was...fucking....amazing.
Thanks to all that tuned in. I had so much fun casting that.
I'd love feedback about my casting as well. I am always striving to improve!!
Did great overall. The only bit of constructive criticism would be, and this could be personal taste, but in times when you may feel overwhelmed (Octo-select) don't be afraid to use the tab menu up top to check on more rudimentary things. Now you could have been doing this the entire time and I was just paying too much attention to the action. That data could even just be another source of talking points in more mellow times. Again, just a friendly suggestion. But very good overall, and would like to see more.
I was being followed by the camera of the guy streaming. Tabs not possible unless he selects them.
On February 04 2011 16:03 Parsistamon wrote: Anyone up for some Octopus v. Gorilla fan art?
You cant do that. It grinds too close to Gracken vs. Gorllia lore. Even though the Gracken is more squid-like in nature....I dunno...its seems confusing for a newcomer to see the Gracken AND SelecTopus.
On February 04 2011 16:04 iNcontroL wrote: Guys...that...was...fucking....amazing.
Thanks to all that tuned in. I had so much fun casting that.
I'd love feedback about my casting as well. I am always striving to improve!!
You have a great tournament cast that I enjoy. You are a top progamer so you actually know what the hell you are talking about (unlike some other shout casters) and you also have a great sense of humour that keeps the crowd entertained.
I was shocked you didnt participate in the EG clan war but two good things happened out of it, IdrA got an all-kill and the community got to see a great ace match commentated by two great casters.
To your casting partner, he did a great job as well. I really enjoy watching pro gamers casting events, as they just know what the hell they are talking about (ala Day[9]). And to be compared to him, means you must be doing a great job.
On February 04 2011 16:03 Liquid`Jinro wrote: Microing vikings in lag is a fucking joke --
What did you think of SjoWs play?
Uhm, he played fine of course? Its not like I went into either game expecting anything else. Select played great, but its fucking annoying to play vs the way he plays when it lags this much. Its like, in perfect situations his playstyle is annoying to deal with, then you add lag and it makes you want to kill yourself.
On February 04 2011 16:03 Liquid`Jinro wrote: Microing vikings in lag is a fucking joke --
What did you think of SjoWs play?
Uhm, he played fine of course? Its not like I went into either game expecting anything else. Select played great, but its fucking annoying to play vs the way he plays when it lags this much. Its like, in perfect situations his playstyle is annoying to deal with, then you add lag and it makes you want to kill yourself.
Regardless of the lag, I think you played amazing. As a Terran it was great to watch a high class TvT, shows just how much there is to learn. Your tank push and constricting the map control of your opponent is great to learn from. Good luck in the next GSL season, do us all proud.
On February 04 2011 16:04 iNcontroL wrote: Guys...that...was...fucking....amazing.
Thanks to all that tuned in. I had so much fun casting that.
I'd love feedback about my casting as well. I am always striving to improve!!
You most certainly don't even remember this, but I'm sorry for being rude to you several times earlier. You're a great caster and I love you. You also seem to enjoy casting alot, which makes listening to you even more enjoyable. Your humour is quite awesome, I always smile at your jokes.
Also, ypu have a super hot girlftiend. Keep it up, dude.
On February 04 2011 16:03 Liquid`Jinro wrote: Microing vikings in lag is a fucking joke --
What did you think of SjoWs play?
Ouch man. But yea I kind of agree. I didn't see any lag issues in the first game. I would probably give some credit to SeleCT there Jinro instead of blaming the loss on lag.
On February 04 2011 16:03 Liquid`Jinro wrote: Microing vikings in lag is a fucking joke --
What did you think of SjoWs play?
Ouch man. But yea I kind of agree. I didn't see any lag issues in the first game. I would probably give some credit to SeleCT there Jinro instead of blaming the loss on lag.
He did give credit to SelecT, but look at how many units he had sniped off. The viking battles made a huge difference, and he had a massive advantage over SelecT when he set up the contain until it came down to micro. Jinro is fully justified in being upset over this IMO. Several times marines were just standing there getting hit by tanks, or vikings were getting picked off. Without vikings to give air superiority, that contain was destined to be picked apart.
On February 04 2011 16:03 Liquid`Jinro wrote: Microing vikings in lag is a fucking joke --
What did you think of SjoWs play?
Ouch man. But yea I kind of agree. I didn't see any lag issues in the first game. I would probably give some credit to SeleCT there Jinro instead of blaming the loss on lag.
Lol, why do you think it took THREE scans to kill 1 banshee in the first game?
That doesnt mean I think they are bad, but theres just no way Im going to beat a player who is as good as me in this lag --
Im not gonna lie and say "oh the lag was fine", that doesnt mean they didnt play good and might very well have won anyways.
I can also mention that a big reason I won game 1 was because my hellions luckboxed and saw his dropship going out.
Making excuses sucks, it makes you look terrible but I m too frustrated to not bring it up. Yes, I knew it was gonna lag when I agreed to play but that doesnt change anything about how you feel after games like these.
On February 04 2011 16:03 Liquid`Jinro wrote: Microing vikings in lag is a fucking joke --
What did you think of SjoWs play?
Ouch man. But yea I kind of agree. I didn't see any lag issues in the first game. I would probably give some credit to SeleCT there Jinro instead of blaming the loss on lag.
Jinro won the first game and I agree, didn't see too much lag. But on Delta he started his lag countdown and the game stuttered there for a while. I think he did compliment both Select and Sjow in a previous post.
On February 04 2011 16:03 Liquid`Jinro wrote: Microing vikings in lag is a fucking joke --
What did you think of SjoWs play?
Ouch man. But yea I kind of agree. I didn't see any lag issues in the first game. I would probably give some credit to SeleCT there Jinro instead of blaming the loss on lag.
Jinro won the first game and I agree, didn't see too much lag. But on Delta he started his lag countdown and the game stuttered there for a while. I think he did compliment both Select and Sjow in a previous post.
The first game was laggy too, I just got lucky to see all his drops and it eventually lead to a type of game that wasnt too lag affected, because the battles were mostly pretty big, but you can still see the lag fucking up everything macrowise in the beginning. But as I said, I had the luckiest start.
When I count-downed on delta my computer was literally frozen, or maybe my connection to the US server was just down or something, I didnt have a countdown screen I just couldnt click anywhere and nothign was moving -.- That was probably unrelated to the latency tho, and didnt actually have any impact other than making me worried Id disconnect.
On February 04 2011 16:03 Liquid`Jinro wrote: Microing vikings in lag is a fucking joke --
What did you think of SjoWs play?
Ouch man. But yea I kind of agree. I didn't see any lag issues in the first game. I would probably give some credit to SeleCT there Jinro instead of blaming the loss on lag.
Lol, why do you think it took THREE scans to kill 1 banshee in the first game?
That doesnt mean I think they are bad, but theres just no way Im going to beat a player who is as good as me in this lag --
Im not gonna lie and say "oh the lag was fine", that doesnt mean they didnt play good and might very well have won anyways.
I can also mention that a big reason I won game 1 was because my hellions luckboxed and saw his dropship going out.
Making excuses sucks, it makes you look terrible but I m too frustrated to not bring it up. Yes, I knew it was gonna lag when I agreed to play but that doesnt change anything about how you feel after games like these.
Ok, fair enough. I didn't mean to add to your frustration. I think you both played excellent and it was one of the best games I've ever watched so thank you for that!
On February 04 2011 16:36 beat farm wrote: did you have lag in the game vs sjow?
Of course, I have 1 sec latency in every single game on the US server... But its not like he could play on Korea, he would have like 2 second latency lol t.t
The lag wasnt a big part in that game tho, it cost me an extra scan because its hard to micro vikings when it lags so his banshee escaped, but he won because 1) I made a banshee instead of a raven because I thought hed stop making banshees, so that cost me 3 depots, 2) I was looking away from my army which got caught unsieged at the watch tower.
If that hadnt happened, I think the game was still reasonably even with sjow slightly ahead (I was ahead in scvs and he didnt have siege mode, but he had a 3rd and stim researched).
Sucks to hear that the lag was that bad. Almost all games were still a blast to watch though, especially Game 1 and 3 vs Select, but it must've been annoying as fuck to play.
As someone that has played countless games from Aus -> USA lag is always a factor. The more precise you need to be the harder it is. Even Select said in the after game interview that he was chosen as the ace based on him being in the US.
BL Jinro I enjoyed your map control and macro, micro was a bit rough in the engagments (see lag). Rematch at GSL/MLG should be good :D
On February 04 2011 16:04 iNcontroL wrote: Guys...that...was...fucking....amazing.
Thanks to all that tuned in. I had so much fun casting that.
I'd love feedback about my casting as well. I am always striving to improve!!
the audio and video wernt synced. the audio was ahead of the video so you would be saying and is he going to get this tank, yes he is. 2 seconds later we would see the tank die. in other words audio was ahead of the video.
casting and spectating was great. only gripe was you didn't keep track of number of expansions after the natural half the time. in the first game between jinro and select you noted jinro getting his natural but did not mention him taking another base till he had 4.
On February 04 2011 16:04 iNcontroL wrote: Guys...that...was...fucking....amazing.
Thanks to all that tuned in. I had so much fun casting that.
I'd love feedback about my casting as well. I am always striving to improve!!
Really enjoyed it, was awesome, only feedback for you sir would be to watch the production tab abit more, I kinda chuckled when you said "looks like jinro will be keeping with the tank... viking... marine... marauder combo" while scrolling through his base to see his production facilities (which I love) but the production tab clearly showed 2 BCs 1/3 done . Aside from that really enjoy your casting and I love Sheth's goofy everything is the most awesome thing ever style, the GCPL has been really refreshing to me, great series and cast very well, and the stream is retardedly high quality.
The lag was the one of the reasons why I thought that TLO vs Sjow would be the Ace match (I also think Sjow is better than Select). But I forgot that it was 6 am in Europe. It seems to hard to find a good time for every player/caster.
At least my predictions were right except for the ace-match .
On February 04 2011 17:01 beat farm wrote: on the first game vs select why did you not saturate your 3rd for so long?
I thought I had, but i ended up never looking back at it after I thought I had transferred a bunch. But then I saw I had like 4 scvs on it and was like "WTF".
On February 03 2011 15:26 godemperor wrote: I think Sjow will beat Jinro cos Jinro always under performs after a major tournament (see post-MLG, and losing ro64 in a korean tournament after GSL3)
Predictions: Tyler<Naniwa Naniwa has been on top form lately think he will win. Ret>Killer I love ret! TLO>Select Beat select in pokeridol recently, and TL open final. Jinro<Sjow See above Cant predict ace match.
Sorry if this has already been answered, but where could I find vods of IdrA team-killing vVv? Incontrol mentioned it on the stream but I was unaware of that happening.
On February 04 2011 16:03 Liquid`Jinro wrote: Microing vikings in lag is a fucking joke --
What did you think of SjoWs play?
Ouch man. But yea I kind of agree. I didn't see any lag issues in the first game. I would probably give some credit to SeleCT there Jinro instead of blaming the loss on lag.
Lol, why do you think it took THREE scans to kill 1 banshee in the first game?
That doesnt mean I think they are bad, but theres just no way Im going to beat a player who is as good as me in this lag --
Im not gonna lie and say "oh the lag was fine", that doesnt mean they didnt play good and might very well have won anyways.
I can also mention that a big reason I won game 1 was because my hellions luckboxed and saw his dropship going out.
Making excuses sucks, it makes you look terrible but I m too frustrated to not bring it up. Yes, I knew it was gonna lag when I agreed to play but that doesnt change anything about how you feel after games like these.
8D don't worry jinro, i want to killmyself when i play vs select in 0 lag, and I couldn't imagine trying to play vs him on korean server T_T the games were still really epic though :D
that was a very entertaining clan war. I am upset that i clicked the results before i watched it lol. Still great clan war! Jinro vs Select was incredible, you could tell lag was a factor, even with lag. Select breaking out of that contain in game 3 was just amazing.
My connection has trouble with justin.tv... my Korean internet connection is garbage right now (even though I pay $60 a month) and Justin.tv makes it 2x as bad. >,<
On February 04 2011 19:16 IndridCold wrote: that was a very entertaining clan war. I am upset that i clicked the results before i watched it lol. Still great clan war! Jinro vs Select was incredible, you could tell lag was a factor, even with lag. Select breaking out of that contain in game 3 was just amazing.
GG's to everyone.
Yes, if select hadnt played really really really well, the lag wouldnt have mattered. I mean, after the early game he had half my SCVs, slower 3rd and a smaller army.... so yeah, he certainly worked very hard for the win.
On February 04 2011 16:03 Liquid`Jinro wrote: Microing vikings in lag is a fucking joke --
What did you think of SjoWs play?
Ouch man. But yea I kind of agree. I didn't see any lag issues in the first game. I would probably give some credit to SeleCT there Jinro instead of blaming the loss on lag.
Lol, why do you think it took THREE scans to kill 1 banshee in the first game?
That doesnt mean I think they are bad, but theres just no way Im going to beat a player who is as good as me in this lag --
Im not gonna lie and say "oh the lag was fine", that doesnt mean they didnt play good and might very well have won anyways.
I can also mention that a big reason I won game 1 was because my hellions luckboxed and saw his dropship going out.
Making excuses sucks, it makes you look terrible but I m too frustrated to not bring it up. Yes, I knew it was gonna lag when I agreed to play but that doesnt change anything about how you feel after games like these.
and this is why HuK decides not to play in tournaments where he will be experiencing lag. It makes you really mad if you lose because of it. But Jinro, even with your lag, the games were amazing from the spectator point of view, so thank you :D. Select played great too! Thanks to both of you for a great bo3
Trust me on this, I've played various Korean games In Canada... and the latency is just horrible. Even the new web-based game currently in Korea that launchd few days ago, had horrible lag and I get around 200ms there. That is a good 2~3 second delay from your command to the actual response in game.
And i know how frustrating it is to play Korea-Canada, as i have in the past. Your playing with a big handicap here, although i know how the community loooks at players that makes "excuse".... this is quite apparent "excuse".. its like playing basketball with a sprained ankle. Anyhow, give some credit for Jinro for even deciding to play this match... Personally I wouldnt even have playd to begin with... its no brainer that your going to lose when facing player with similar skill level. It just doesnt create room for a fair match.
Hope to see you in MLG to play in lan with Dignitas playeres again, Good Luck in your future endevours...
Just finished watching the VODs. Oh my god, SelecT you hero. As much as I love Jinro I couldn't help but root for SelecT in the last game, goddamn that was a blast to watch. And I fucking hate TvT in 9/10 cases, man, that was great.
I love how awesome this matchup was and how we can watch these amazing people play and then Jinro even joins the conversation. One of the reasons I love TL.
Last night it was really frustrating that neither Sheth or iNcontrol commented on the obvious lag that Jinro was experiencing. Now that I've had some time to think about it I can understand how mentioning that would have taken away some of the "epicness" of what Select was doing during those comebacks.
Still kind of wished that they would have mentioned it at least once, especially with the three scans for 1 banshee and obvious viking micro.
Just wanted to let everyone know that after GCPL is over we will release a replay pack, but the players, managers and tournament admin decided prior to GCPL that we would not replease replays until after the season was over. Sorry. VODs are always available as stated above.
On February 05 2011 02:03 OCsurfeR wrote: Just wanted to let everyone know that after GCPL is over we will release a replay pack, but the players, managers and tournament admin decided prior to GCPL that we would not replease replays until after the season was over. Sorry. VODs are always available as stated above.
In case of tie in the tournament, is win/loss ratio the decider or who won when the two teams tied up played?
On February 05 2011 02:20 Torpedo.Vegas wrote: I curious why Gosucoaching uses Justin.tv over UStream. I don't stream but I was under the impression most players prefer U-Stream.
Justin.TV is, in my opinion, the single best streaming service for gamers out there right now. They provide and easy to use streaming application(Dyno, all you have to do is drag and drop and you are set.), they care about the community(Look at the number of tournaments they help host, VT Open being one of the major ones), and have an excellently designed website.
As of now, there is no better option for streaming games then Justin.TV.
On February 04 2011 16:04 iNcontroL wrote: Guys...that...was...fucking....amazing.
Thanks to all that tuned in. I had so much fun casting that.
I'd love feedback about my casting as well. I am always striving to improve!!
great casting as always and it was very entertaining
i dont know if im the only one but maybe put up the apm tab every once in a while? its interesting to see how fast these players are clicking at different points in the game
On February 05 2011 02:20 Torpedo.Vegas wrote: I curious why Gosucoaching uses Justin.tv over UStream. I don't stream but I was under the impression most players prefer U-Stream.
Justin.TV is, in my opinion, the single best streaming service for gamers out there right now. They provide and easy to use streaming application(Dyno, all you have to do is drag and drop and you are set.), they care about the community(Look at the number of tournaments they help host, VT Open being one of the major ones), and have an excellently designed website.
As of now, there is no better option for streaming games then Justin.TV.
and many ppl outside of NA cant watch it at a higher quality than 360p -_-
Wow, came out exactly like I thought it would. Select, Sjow, and Nani are easily 3 of the top ten foriegnors. With the way they're doing, Diginitas could pass both Mouz and Liquid
On February 05 2011 02:20 Torpedo.Vegas wrote: I curious why Gosucoaching uses Justin.tv over UStream. I don't stream but I was under the impression most players prefer U-Stream.
99% of them switched (NOT calling out Gosucoaching, I am not sure why they switched, just speaking in general) for $ because Justin offered a partner program before Ustream. But if you want to cater to the whole word, and you care about more then $, Ustream is superior to Justin.
On February 05 2011 02:20 Torpedo.Vegas wrote: I curious why Gosucoaching uses Justin.tv over UStream. I don't stream but I was under the impression most players prefer U-Stream.
99% of them switched (NOT calling out Gosucoaching, I am not sure why they switched, just speaking in general) for $ because Justin offered a partner program before Ustream. But if you want to cater to the whole word, and you care about more then $, Ustream is superior to Justin.
On February 05 2011 00:51 compscidude wrote: Trust me on this, I've played various Korean games In Canada... and the latency is just horrible. Even the new web-based game currently in Korea that launchd few days ago, had horrible lag and I get around 200ms there. That is a good 2~3 second delay from your command to the actual response in game.
And i know how frustrating it is to play Korea-Canada, as i have in the past. Your playing with a big handicap here, although i know how the community loooks at players that makes "excuse".... this is quite apparent "excuse".. its like playing basketball with a sprained ankle. Anyhow, give some credit for Jinro for even deciding to play this match... Personally I wouldnt even have playd to begin with... its no brainer that your going to lose when facing player with similar skill level. It just doesnt create room for a fair match.
Hope to see you in MLG to play in lan with Dignitas playeres again, Good Luck in your future endevours...
Its not 2-3 seconds in SC2 tho, its not THAT bad. I would say the only game where it REALLY bothered me was the last one vs SelecT. Yes, it makes defending banshees harder and such things but its not why I lost the two games on Jungle Basin, or at least not the main reason.
On February 05 2011 02:20 Torpedo.Vegas wrote: I curious why Gosucoaching uses Justin.tv over UStream. I don't stream but I was under the impression most players prefer U-Stream.
99% of them switched (NOT calling out Gosucoaching, I am not sure why they switched, just speaking in general) for $ because Justin offered a partner program before Ustream. But if you want to cater to the whole word, and you care about more then $, Ustream is superior to Justin.
Great series and props to Incontrol and Sheth for making the series even more exciting with their great casts! That was the kind of games I expected from MKP vs MVP :/ Select is such a monster...
EDIT: didn't want to double post, so editing. This whole 1 second delay issue is a HUGE deal for players. It's not just about having the delay. It will bother players all game long.
On February 05 2011 02:20 Torpedo.Vegas wrote: I curious why Gosucoaching uses Justin.tv over UStream. I don't stream but I was under the impression most players prefer U-Stream.
99% of them switched (NOT calling out Gosucoaching, I am not sure why they switched, just speaking in general) for $ because Justin offered a partner program before Ustream. But if you want to cater to the whole word, and you care about more then $, Ustream is superior to Justin.
On February 05 2011 02:20 Torpedo.Vegas wrote: I curious why Gosucoaching uses Justin.tv over UStream. I don't stream but I was under the impression most players prefer U-Stream.
99% of them switched (NOT calling out Gosucoaching, I am not sure why they switched, just speaking in general) for $ because Justin offered a partner program before Ustream. But if you want to cater to the whole word, and you care about more then $, Ustream is superior to Justin.
Oh. Nothing Diamond! I just found it funny that you essentially equated all Justin users to money mongering people who don't care about the world.
Sick read though. You are probably right. Anyone that gets paid to do anything probably likes money and usually hates african babies.
Incontrol 1 Diamond 0
Sometimes, though I'll admit it's a rarity, teams with monetary responsibilities utilize things like deals or sponsorships to cut costs and raise funds- allowing them to spend money elsewhere. Then, they can be criticized for that too.
On February 05 2011 02:20 Torpedo.Vegas wrote: I curious why Gosucoaching uses Justin.tv over UStream. I don't stream but I was under the impression most players prefer U-Stream.
99% of them switched (NOT calling out Gosucoaching, I am not sure why they switched, just speaking in general) for $ because Justin offered a partner program before Ustream. But if you want to cater to the whole word, and you care about more then $, Ustream is superior to Justin.
Oh. Nothing Diamond! I just found it funny that you essentially equated all Justin users to money mongering people who don't care about the world.
Sick read though. You are probably right. Anyone that gets paid to do anything probably likes money and usually hates african babies.
I think that may have been a slight exaggeration on what I wrote.... Liking money is nothing bad, but when it comes at the expense of an entire of continent of viewers having repeating problems for years now (Europe) then most people cannot say they went to Justin for the viewer experience. I know I have missed GCPL clanwars (loving GCPL btw) and the entire Reddit Invitational because I could not get Justin to load, and I am in the US....
Edit: How would you like it if say GOM was switching to a video provider that did not work worth a shit in the US, but it makes them some more $?
Yes and people have had problems with other stream services as well. I just wouldn't be dumb enough to generalize all of them as loving money and not caring about the world.
On February 05 2011 03:32 iNcontroL wrote: Yes and people have had problems with other stream services as well. I just wouldn't be dumb enough to generalize all of them as loving money and not caring about the world.
The problems with Justin and Europe are more well documented and prevalent then other streaming services.....
Just to add my opinion (and i have heard similar reactions on german forums) is that justin.tv is great. I get minimal lag, and it offers the option to change the quality, which in my opinion is its greatest feature. f.e. 2 friends of mine could never watch livestreams on the other hosters, and justin.tv allows 240p streams (yes its horrible then but better than nothing) and this has been a major reaction to the GCPL streams atleast in germany. So please keep this quality upright, i really like these casts.
On February 05 2011 03:32 iNcontroL wrote: Yes and people have had problems with other stream services as well. I just wouldn't be dumb enough to generalize all of them as loving money and not caring about the world.
The problems with Justin and Europe are more well documented and prevalent then other streaming services.....
JustinTV has been getting better over the past month. Plenty of european friends can watch streams with me now. Every stream service has issues and JustinTV does about as good as every other one and you get some money for it. Why wouldn't you switch to it?
I am trying to watch the VODs as we speak and its unwatchable considering I have waited for the VODs to load and the voices keep cutting out every few seconds. I have tried several times with part 1 and Tyler versus Nani.
On February 05 2011 03:32 iNcontroL wrote: Yes and people have had problems with other stream services as well. I just wouldn't be dumb enough to generalize all of them as loving money and not caring about the world.
The problems with Justin and Europe are more well documented and prevalent then other streaming services.....
JustinTV has been getting better over the past month. Plenty of european friends can watch streams with me now. Every stream service has issues and JustinTV does about as good as every other one and you get some money for it. Why wouldn't you switch to it?
We now (ie: started just this month) receive part of our ad money from Ustream. So the question is since money is not a concern for us, why would we switch?
On February 05 2011 03:52 Seronei wrote: If possible you should setup both a ustream stream and a justinTV stream, now everyone is happy!
However this either requires two streamers, or a really fast internet connection to stream two streams which none of our casters have the bandwidth to do.
Edit: I'm assuming that that was pointed at me, if not, ignore my answer!
As a European frequent stream viewer... JustinTV is clearly worse at this point than ustream from a lag and viewing experience standpoint - although they have been improving recently it has to be said.
I am just grateful that any event is streamed, no matter what the provider though, especially when the games were as epic as the Jinro vs Select series.
We should feel lucky that we get to watch these events at all instead of prying around the personal reasons, monetary or otherwise, that organisations are choosing certain streaming providers.
On February 05 2011 03:52 Seronei wrote: If possible you should setup both a ustream stream and a justinTV stream, now everyone is happy!
However this either requires two streamers, or a really fast internet connection to stream two streams which none of our casters have the bandwidth to do.
Edit: I'm assuming that that was pointed at me, if not, ignore my answer!
Can just get someone else to restream the JustinTV stream. Will be some more delay but better than nothing.
On February 05 2011 03:52 Seronei wrote: If possible you should setup both a ustream stream and a justinTV stream, now everyone is happy!
However this either requires two streamers, or a really fast internet connection to stream two streams which none of our casters have the bandwidth to do.
Edit: I'm assuming that that was pointed at me, if not, ignore my answer!
Can just get someone else to restream the JustinTV stream. Will be some more delay but better than nothing.
Why do that when you are happy with your video provider and have next to no viewer complaints about service issues? Also it requires still two people streaming instead of one, twice the manpower needed.
On February 05 2011 03:43 StarStruck wrote: I am trying to watch the VODs as we speak and its unwatchable considering I have waited for the VODs to load and the voices keep cutting out every few seconds. I have tried several times with part 1 and Tyler versus Nani.
Happy to see this thread digress to a JustinTV/Ustream debate...
Overall my experience with this tournament has been awesome and I really liked how you guys took care of the technical problems right away last night while letting us know what was going on.
My only recommendation would be to not tell us if the matches are going to be live or from replays in advance. If I hear that the matches will be casted from replays I'm more likely to skip it and catch it later.
Either way I'm looking forward to tomorrow's matches!
Why do that when you are happy with your video provider and have next to no viewer complaints about service issues? Also it requires still two people streaming instead of one, twice the manpower needed.
Because it helps those that has problems with the stream? Even if it's only 20 people having problems it takes next to no manpower restreaming it, I doubt they can't find 1 person able to stream it's not really rocket surgery to set up a stream.
On February 05 2011 04:59 BluePabs wrote: Happy to see this thread digress to a JustinTV/Ustream debate...
Overall my experience with this tournament has been awesome and I really liked how you guys took care of the technical problems right away last night while letting us know what was going on.
My only recommendation would be to not tell us if the matches are going to be live or from replays in advance. If I hear that the matches will be casted from replays I'm more likely to skip it and catch it later.
Either way I'm looking forward to tomorrow's matches!
Interesting Babs, I have a question about that I'd like to throw out there, but let me preface.
We're scheduling games between teams with playeras all around the World. Last night was a good example where we had players playing from Korea, NA and Europe. On days when Empire plays, add Russia to that mix. Lag asside, it's just damned hard to get players awake at the same time to do some of these matches and also synch that to the time we broadcast, so in many cases we allow teams to submit replays.
Okay so that's the reasoning, but let me ask you this. Why would you skip a live broadcast of a replay when you wouldn't if you knew it was a live match? That live broadcast is still the first and earliest way for you to know the result of that particular match, so for all intents and purposes it is a live match even if it's done from a replay.
Mentally, as a viewer, I understand the difference, it's just more EXCITING to know you're watching it right as the players are making the moves instead of something that occurred hours before, but I guess I don't understand the mind set of wanting to skip it just because it's a replay when it's still the first time anybody in the World has seen the game other than the players involved.
THAT SAID, we are examining technologies and methods to make it less obvious when we are casting live games versus replayed games so that our viewers don't have to mentally wrangle with the "but it's just a replay" issue in their minds. But it's a work in progress.
Finally, like I said above, it's a Global game with Global players and an amazingly devoted Global community, so I think replays are just a necessary evil. If somebody has a better way to do it, by all means, share it with the rest of us.
On February 05 2011 04:59 BluePabs wrote: Happy to see this thread digress to a JustinTV/Ustream debate...
Overall my experience with this tournament has been awesome and I really liked how you guys took care of the technical problems right away last night while letting us know what was going on.
My only recommendation would be to not tell us if the matches are going to be live or from replays in advance. If I hear that the matches will be casted from replays I'm more likely to skip it and catch it later.
Either way I'm looking forward to tomorrow's matches!
Interesting Babs, I have some questions about that I'd like to throw out there, but let me preface.
We're scheduling games between teams with playeras all around the World. Last night was a good example where we had players playing from Korea, NA and Europe. On days when Empire plays, add Russia to that mix. Lag asside, it's just damned hard to get players awake at the same time to do some of these matches and also synch that to the time we broadcast, so in many cases we allow teams to submit replays.
Okay so that's the reasoning, but let me ask you this. Why would you skip a live broadcast of a replay when you wouldn't if you knew it was a live match? That live broadcast is still the first and earliest way for you to know the result of that particular match, so for all intents and purposes it is a live match even if it's done from a replay.
Mentally, as a viewer, I understand the difference, it's just more EXCITING to know you're watching it right as the players are making the moves instead of something that occurred hours before, but I guess I don't understand the mind set of wanting to skip it just because it's a replay when it's still the first time anybody in the World has seen the game other than the players involved.
THAT SAID, we are examining technologies and methods to make it less obvious when we are casting live games versus replayed games so that our viewers don't have to mentally wrangle with the "but it's just a replay" issue in their minds. But it's a work in progress.
Finally, like I said above, it's a Global game with Global players and an amazingly devoted Global community, so I think replays are just a necessary evil. If somebody has a better way to do it, by all means, share it with the rest of us.
It's such a stupid thing, but it just feels different. You're awesome for addressing it.
On February 05 2011 02:20 Torpedo.Vegas wrote: I curious why Gosucoaching uses Justin.tv over UStream. I don't stream but I was under the impression most players prefer U-Stream.
99% of them switched (NOT calling out Gosucoaching, I am not sure why they switched, just speaking in general) for $ because Justin offered a partner program before Ustream. But if you want to cater to the whole word, and you care about more then $, Ustream is superior to Justin.
We didn't switch providers. I tried them all. Justin.tv was the only one who could handle the high bit rate that I stream at. Every other streaming service downgraded/capped the quality or wanted to charge upwards of 250k for the bandwidth of the high stream.
Justin to date is the only service that does live transcoding that allows viewers to choose the resolution that they view at depending on their connection speed.
This is key for me. Viewers that can see the HD version don't want to watch the LQ version just because someone else can't handle it. I think I noticed on the last TSL Qualifier they had to setup 2 different ustreams(one high one low) to accomplish the same thing.
Lastly I emailed every streaming company. Justin has been the most responsive. Even when they had EU issues they have gotten on and looked at the problems immediately and worked fix them.
On February 05 2011 02:20 Torpedo.Vegas wrote: I curious why Gosucoaching uses Justin.tv over UStream. I don't stream but I was under the impression most players prefer U-Stream.
99% of them switched (NOT calling out Gosucoaching, I am not sure why they switched, just speaking in general) for $ because Justin offered a partner program before Ustream. But if you want to cater to the whole word, and you care about more then $, Ustream is superior to Justin.
We didn't switch providers. I tried them all. Justin.tv was the only one who could handle the high bit rate that I stream at. Every other streaming service downgraded/capped the quality or wanted to charge upwards of 250k for the bandwidth of the high stream.
Justin to date is the only service that does live transcoding that allows viewers to choose the resolution that they view at depending on their connection speed.
This is key for me. Viewers that can see the HD version don't want to watch the LQ version just because someone else can't handle it. I think I noticed on the last TSL Qualifier they had to setup 2 different ustreams(one high one low) to accomplish the same thing.
Lastly I emailed every streaming company. Justin has been the most responsive. Even when they had EU issues they have gotten on and looked at the problems immediately and worked fix them.
Now that is a good reason to switch for you and I can understand that completely. . I'm just saying most other Justin converts did not have such solid reasons. <3 the GCPL good job an an amazing league!
On February 05 2011 02:20 Torpedo.Vegas wrote: I curious why Gosucoaching uses Justin.tv over UStream. I don't stream but I was under the impression most players prefer U-Stream.
99% of them switched (NOT calling out Gosucoaching, I am not sure why they switched, just speaking in general) for $ because Justin offered a partner program before Ustream. But if you want to cater to the whole word, and you care about more then $, Ustream is superior to Justin.
We didn't switch providers. I tried them all. Justin.tv was the only one who could handle the high bit rate that I stream at. Every other streaming service downgraded/capped the quality or wanted to charge upwards of 250k for the bandwidth of the high stream.
Justin to date is the only service that does live transcoding that allows viewers to choose the resolution that they view at depending on their connection speed.
This is key for me. Viewers that can see the HD version don't want to watch the LQ version just because someone else can't handle it. I think I noticed on the last TSL Qualifier they had to setup 2 different ustreams(one high one low) to accomplish the same thing.
Lastly I emailed every streaming company. Justin has been the most responsive. Even when they had EU issues they have gotten on and looked at the problems immediately and worked fix them.
Now that is a good reason to switch for you and I can understand that completely. . I'm just saying most other Justin converts did not have such solid reasons. <3 the GCPL good job an an amazing league!
just wanna say that even though I switched from livestream to jtv originally because of partner program, no other site matches their support, constant improvement, and awesome staff. we basically get updates every week about new awesome features.
I LOVE the fact that you can choose your own resolution on jtv. My school's internet fluctuates a lot, from like 75 Mbps to 0.75, so depending on whether it's a good day or a bad day it's really good to know that I never have to worry about a laggy stream.
On February 05 2011 03:43 StarStruck wrote: I am trying to watch the VODs as we speak and its unwatchable considering I have waited for the VODs to load and the voices keep cutting out every few seconds. I have tried several times with part 1 and Tyler versus Nani.
It makes me want to cringe.
Same problem for me.
On February 05 2011 06:35 Antoine wrote: I LOVE the fact that you can choose your own resolution on jtv. My school's internet fluctuates a lot, from like 75 Mbps to 0.75, so depending on whether it's a good day or a bad day it's really good to know that I never have to worry about a laggy stream.
Can you do this with the VOD's and in that case how? I have seen the option for a stream but not the vod links.
I got to agree with Diamond here over InControl.. Justin.tv isnt all that great service if you ask me. There is quite some lag there compared to the other streaming sites that are out there. And no its nothing wrong with my Internet Connection. But yeah there are quite some teams that have moved over to Justin now like Root and gosucoaching. And there is ofcourse alot of $ behind that switch if you ask me. But Its not like the first time people go for the greater $ over quality.
First off i dont see what all the justin tv hate is about, im from europe and i never have problems (which is where i hear the majority of problems are) or maybe im just bias because i <3 incontrol and his casting (which was great, i love this not just for the teams but you and sheth are great). I was cheering for liquid and i can see jinros gripes and hes definatly right lag is an issue when someone plays as great as select, but regardless of who won it was some very gg's and im glad i stayed up to watch such an epic match up :D
Ps: shut the hell up about live/replay castinog its been shown live and casted live thats what matters i dont get what the big deal is. ALSO when the main caster is picking replays/loading them sometimes i see the time on the replay spoiling myself when i dont want to, i know you do take some measures to stop this (quickly selecting replay/overlaying the time) just sometimes it fails, maybe find a better system idk ^^ <3 GCPL.
On February 05 2011 06:35 Antoine wrote: I LOVE the fact that you can choose your own resolution on jtv. My school's internet fluctuates a lot, from like 75 Mbps to 0.75, so depending on whether it's a good day or a bad day it's really good to know that I never have to worry about a laggy stream.
On February 05 2011 06:48 nihlon wrote: Can you do this with the VOD's and in that case how? I have seen the option for a stream but not the vod links.
In fact, Justin.tv is working to provide resolution-on-demand for its VOD feeds. We've been beating them up about this issue because even here in the U.S. where I have a really fast connection it can be a little slow and frustrating. We feel your pain and we're working with Justin.tv to improve it.
On February 05 2011 06:35 Antoine wrote: I LOVE the fact that you can choose your own resolution on jtv. My school's internet fluctuates a lot, from like 75 Mbps to 0.75, so depending on whether it's a good day or a bad day it's really good to know that I never have to worry about a laggy stream.
On February 05 2011 06:48 nihlon wrote: Can you do this with the VOD's and in that case how? I have seen the option for a stream but not the vod links.
In fact, Justin.tv is working to provide resolution-on-demand for its VOD feeds. We've been beating them up about this issue because even here in the U.S. where I have a really fast connection it can be a little slow and frustrating. We feel your pain and we're working with Justin.tv to improve it.
great news. eu+only high qual vods+5am livestream means that i can mostly follow it by just reading up the results atm.
Oh damn....I was not aware about can of worms my question would pop open. It was just a casual observation of various streams I watch. Although, at least the digression was pretty civil. Anyway, great series, a few hiccups but no one is perfect and the quality of the stream speaking purely from a graphical stand point was amazing. Usually I get a lot of artifacts floating around on various streams but that look almost like I was playing in-game. All things considered, well done and hope to see these kinds of competitions happen more often in foreign-land.
On February 05 2011 06:35 Antoine wrote: I LOVE the fact that you can choose your own resolution on jtv. My school's internet fluctuates a lot, from like 75 Mbps to 0.75, so depending on whether it's a good day or a bad day it's really good to know that I never have to worry about a laggy stream.
On February 05 2011 06:48 nihlon wrote: Can you do this with the VOD's and in that case how? I have seen the option for a stream but not the vod links.
In fact, Justin.tv is working to provide resolution-on-demand for its VOD feeds. We've been beating them up about this issue because even here in the U.S. where I have a really fast connection it can be a little slow and frustrating. We feel your pain and we're working with Justin.tv to improve it.
It seems to be that every streaming service has lag issues towards certain users. Some people say Ustream sucks (and they base this off it sucking for them) others say JustinTV sucks (and they base this off it sucking for them). My guess is on a broader scale we don't really know yet what is better.
One thing I will say is that there's something in ustream's service that destroys bad computers. If I leave a ustream open for a long time then close the tab, it crashes my browser every time. I haven't experienced this with justin.tv. However, I only have 1gb of ram so it may not be an issue that affects any more than the tiny minority of people who still have archaic computers like I do.
On February 05 2011 07:38 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: It seems to be that every streaming service has lag issues towards certain users. Some people say Ustream sucks (and they base this off it sucking for them) others say JustinTV sucks (and they base this off it sucking for them). My guess is on a broader scale we don't really know yet what is better.
You could point that out all day Nazgul but that's common sense and that unfortunately isn't something consumers generally have.
On February 05 2011 07:38 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: It seems to be that every streaming service has lag issues towards certain users. Some people say Ustream sucks (and they base this off it sucking for them) others say JustinTV sucks (and they base this off it sucking for them). My guess is on a broader scale we don't really know yet what is better.
On February 03 2011 15:26 godemperor wrote: I think Sjow will beat Jinro cos Jinro always under performs after a major tournament (see post-MLG, and losing ro64 in a korean tournament after GSL3)
Predictions: Tyler<Naniwa Naniwa has been on top form lately think he will win. Ret>Killer I love ret! TLO>Select Beat select in pokeridol recently, and TL open final. Jinro<Sjow See above Cant predict ace match.
Lastly I emailed every streaming company. Justin has been the most responsive. Even when they had EU issues they have gotten on and looked at the problems immediately and worked fix them.
I just watched the VOD and the quality was awesome, much better than the HQ VOD's from the last GSL, which was very good. (I am from Norway and the VODs only had to buffer for something like 5 seconds, so not all europeans have problems)
The matches, players/casters/commentators where great as well. Keep the good stuff coming!
On February 05 2011 04:59 BluePabs wrote: Happy to see this thread digress to a JustinTV/Ustream debate...
Overall my experience with this tournament has been awesome and I really liked how you guys took care of the technical problems right away last night while letting us know what was going on.
My only recommendation would be to not tell us if the matches are going to be live or from replays in advance. If I hear that the matches will be casted from replays I'm more likely to skip it and catch it later.
Either way I'm looking forward to tomorrow's matches!
Interesting Babs, I have a question about that I'd like to throw out there, but let me preface.
We're scheduling games between teams with playeras all around the World. Last night was a good example where we had players playing from Korea, NA and Europe. On days when Empire plays, add Russia to that mix. Lag asside, it's just damned hard to get players awake at the same time to do some of these matches and also synch that to the time we broadcast, so in many cases we allow teams to submit replays.
Okay so that's the reasoning, but let me ask you this. Why would you skip a live broadcast of a replay when you wouldn't if you knew it was a live match? That live broadcast is still the first and earliest way for you to know the result of that particular match, so for all intents and purposes it is a live match even if it's done from a replay.
Mentally, as a viewer, I understand the difference, it's just more EXCITING to know you're watching it right as the players are making the moves instead of something that occurred hours before, but I guess I don't understand the mind set of wanting to skip it just because it's a replay when it's still the first time anybody in the World has seen the game other than the players involved.
THAT SAID, we are examining technologies and methods to make it less obvious when we are casting live games versus replayed games so that our viewers don't have to mentally wrangle with the "but it's just a replay" issue in their minds. But it's a work in progress.
Finally, like I said above, it's a Global game with Global players and an amazingly devoted Global community, so I think replays are just a necessary evil. If somebody has a better way to do it, by all means, share it with the rest of us.
I completely understand your reasoning and where you're coming from. And my response really isn't a rationally reasoned response. You pretty much answered it yourself, it's more exciting knowing that the games are live (or just not knowing in advance that it'll be replays). When Jinro popped on last night to play the ace match I sat up straighter and was 10x more excited. But that doesn't really answer your question.
When I hear that the games are replays I already know they've been played and a lot of the "unknown" excitement is taken out of the equation. I know when I tune in it'll be some casters, awesome casting so far by the way, loading up replays and casting from those. In that process I'll usually be able to see the time duration of the match and other replays that will be coming up soon. When I don't know if it's live or from replays I'm more excited about the unknowns whether they be pre-game chatting, lineup changes like when TLO couldn't play the ace match, and any other random event.
To summarize you make great points about why watching from replays should just be as awesome as live, and you're right. But when I hear on Thursday that the games Saturday will be from replays, for some reason my excitement diminishes. I mean just the sound of we'll be casting EG vs. Root LIVE on Saturday from we'll be casting replays from when EG played Root this week doesn't sound as exciting. I would just recommend that you don't say if they're from replays or not when talking about the next matchup. If you tell me that iNcontrol and Gretorp are casting the games Saturday that's more than enough for me to tune in.
Also if they do turn out to be replays while I'm watching, I don't care, I'm already watching. Just pleeeeeease hide the time duration of the match.
I hope this helped some and answered your question.
Yes that's very helpful amigo, and it confirms my own personal tastes on it as well as what everyone else says. We completely understand that position. Hell, we like to watch live games over replays too. As I said before we'll be doing all we can to at least make it more invisible to the viewers whether the match is live vs a replay.
I don't mind replays much except for that it seems that sometimes casters get off synch/ahead of cameraman, and it kind of destroys the big surprises and such. Oh, and I guess spoilers too - some faggot spoiled the Tyler/Naniwa game like 10 minutes before it was casted. Ughh.
Although liquid lost you have to give some great respect to dignitas for a ridiculous series; it was just so incredibly epic! Especially the ace match.. SjoW = monster :D
As for casting from replays - it is what it is, rather cast from replays than have someone playing at 4am or not playing at all haha!
Can someone explain why all the matches were mirror matches? It would be nice to see some variety in the games and have different races facing each other.
On February 05 2011 10:33 Raisauce wrote: Can someone explain why all the matches were mirror matches? It would be nice to see some variety in the games and have different races facing each other.
On February 05 2011 10:33 Raisauce wrote: Can someone explain why all the matches were mirror matches? It would be nice to see some variety in the games and have different races facing each other.
I think they pick the player depending on map. So for example, if they know scrap station was the map, both teams would pick a zerg.
just watched it..great games and not to take anything away from sjow or dignatas buuuuut lag was a huge factor in that micro heavy TvT between Jinro and Sjow on Jungle Basin..Jinro's build was prepared for that harass.
It reallly looked like the lag played a big role and allowed the banshee harass by sjow to be much more effective than otherwise would've been the case. Some of the shots didn't even register on the banshee which is actually huge because 1st one would have died. Also its damn near impossible to place a good scan on a micro'd banshee with high latency, which made him burn 2 scans and allowed the second one in w/ no detection.
Not to say the game or any games with latency are irrelevant, but in micro intensive situations it really makes the difference, and can handicap one player.
Awesome clan war! Can't wait to see the playoffs. Thanks to everyone who could make this possible. Also, Justin.tv is my favorite streaming site, works perfectly on "Best" quality as viewer from SoCal.
On February 05 2011 11:26 endlives wrote: just watched it..great games and not to take anything away from sjow or dignatas buuuuut lag was a huge factor in that micro heavy TvT between Jinro and Sjow on Jungle Basin..Jinro's build was prepared for that harass.
It reallly looked like the lag played a big role and allowed the banshee harass by sjow to be much more effective than otherwise would've been the case. Some of the shots didn't even register on the banshee which is actually huge because 1st one would have died. Also its damn near impossible to place a good scan on a micro'd banshee with high latency, which made him burn 2 scans and allowed the second one in w/ no detection.
Not to say the game or any games with latency are irrelevant, but in micro intensive situations it really makes the difference, and can handicap one player.
If you cloak banshees after the Vikings has fired at it and before it hits the banshee it never registers, that's why you often see people hit cloak straight after the Viking fires. It's not because of lag.
I don't think the lag was nearly as "huge" as you make it out to be though, I'll back that up with Jinros comments about it:
On February 04 2011 16:40 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
Of course, I have 1 sec latency in every single game on the US server... But its not like he could play on Korea, he would have like 2 second latency lol t.t
The lag wasnt a big part in that game tho, it cost me an extra scan because its hard to micro vikings when it lags so his banshee escaped, but he won because 1) I made a banshee instead of a raven because I thought hed stop making banshees, so that cost me 3 depots, 2) I was looking away from my army which got caught unsieged at the watch tower.
If that hadnt happened, I think the game was still reasonably even with sjow slightly ahead (I was ahead in scvs and he didnt have siege mode, but he had a 3rd and stim researched).
On February 05 2011 10:32 Naniwa wrote: Fyi sjow played live at 5 AM. think that shows everything.
TLO too though. isnt he at Sjows place right now???
gratz dignitas btw!
I vaguely remember reading some of the PM's that the video caster was getting prior to match and I vague remember a message from Sjow saying he was going to go wake up TLO or something.
On February 05 2011 11:26 endlives wrote: just watched it..great games and not to take anything away from sjow or dignatas buuuuut lag was a huge factor in that micro heavy TvT between Jinro and Sjow on Jungle Basin..Jinro's build was prepared for that harass.
It reallly looked like the lag played a big role and allowed the banshee harass by sjow to be much more effective than otherwise would've been the case. Some of the shots didn't even register on the banshee which is actually huge because 1st one would have died. Also its damn near impossible to place a good scan on a micro'd banshee with high latency, which made him burn 2 scans and allowed the second one in w/ no detection.
Not to say the game or any games with latency are irrelevant, but in micro intensive situations it really makes the difference, and can handicap one player.
If you cloak banshees after the Vikings has fired at it and before it hits the banshee it never registers, that's why you often see people hit cloak straight after the Viking fires. It's not because of lag.
I don't think the lag was nearly as "huge" as you make it out to be though, I'll back that up with Jinros comments about it:
Of course, I have 1 sec latency in every single game on the US server... But its not like he could play on Korea, he would have like 2 second latency lol t.t
The lag wasnt a big part in that game tho, it cost me an extra scan because its hard to micro vikings when it lags so his banshee escaped, but he won because 1) I made a banshee instead of a raven because I thought hed stop making banshees, so that cost me 3 depots, 2) I was looking away from my army which got caught unsieged at the watch tower.
If that hadnt happened, I think the game was still reasonably even with sjow slightly ahead (I was ahead in scvs and he didnt have siege mode, but he had a 3rd and stim researched).
I'm guessing SjoW had lag from EU to NA as well?
The lag between EU and US is not the same as KR to US, its very very very different. But as I said before, lag was not the main reason I lost that game.
On February 05 2011 08:51 Rasky wrote: Team Dignitas got lucky plus Liquid didn't have Huk.
You could say that anytime a team wins 2-3 then, I dont think they got any luckier than anyone else - just close games.
On February 05 2011 12:33 TheBanana wrote: I'm guessing SjoW had lag from EU to NA as well?
The lag between EU and US is not the same as KR to US, its very very very different. But as I said before, lag was not the main reason I lost that game.
Yeah, ok, I wouldn't know. I didn't think it would be as bad just that there would be some. So if you play from EU to US against someone on US the lag is miniscule and not a factor? Or just compared to KR to NA?
Also looking for the last match. It says in the list of vods on the page that it's 2:42:16 long but when I play it it's only 1:59:46, cuts out just as the final match starts
edit: Nvm you have to choose part 2 on the right side of the video.
On February 05 2011 22:30 wiperkill wrote: Also looking for the last match. It says in the list of vods on the page that it's 2:42:16 long but when I play it it's only 1:59:46, cuts out just as the final match starts
edit: Nvm you have to choose part 2 on the right side of the video.
On February 05 2011 11:26 endlives wrote: just watched it..great games and not to take anything away from sjow or dignatas buuuuut lag was a huge factor in that micro heavy TvT between Jinro and Sjow on Jungle Basin..Jinro's build was prepared for that harass.
It reallly looked like the lag played a big role and allowed the banshee harass by sjow to be much more effective than otherwise would've been the case. Some of the shots didn't even register on the banshee which is actually huge because 1st one would have died. Also its damn near impossible to place a good scan on a micro'd banshee with high latency, which made him burn 2 scans and allowed the second one in w/ no detection.
Not to say the game or any games with latency are irrelevant, but in micro intensive situations it really makes the difference, and can handicap one player.
If you cloak banshees after the Vikings has fired at it and before it hits the banshee it never registers, that's why you often see people hit cloak straight after the Viking fires. It's not because of lag.
I don't think the lag was nearly as "huge" as you make it out to be though, I'll back that up with Jinros comments about it:
On February 04 2011 16:40 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
Of course, I have 1 sec latency in every single game on the US server... But its not like he could play on Korea, he would have like 2 second latency lol t.t
The lag wasnt a big part in that game tho, it cost me an extra scan because its hard to micro vikings when it lags so his banshee escaped, but he won because 1) I made a banshee instead of a raven because I thought hed stop making banshees, so that cost me 3 depots, 2) I was looking away from my army which got caught unsieged at the watch tower.
If that hadnt happened, I think the game was still reasonably even with sjow slightly ahead (I was ahead in scvs and he didnt have siege mode, but he had a 3rd and stim researched).
I'm guessing SjoW had lag from EU to NA as well?
The lag between EU and US is not the same as KR to US, its very very very different. But as I said before, lag was not the main reason I lost that game.
On February 05 2011 21:18 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: EU to US is not miniscule or not a factor. it's definitely there but KR to US is on another level and EU to KR is unplayable.
in terms of lag KREU > KRUS > EUUS
KREU is literally seconds thats why you never see it in tournaments
On February 05 2011 21:18 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: EU to US is not miniscule or not a factor. it's definitely there but KR to US is on another level and EU to KR is unplayable.
in terms of lag KREU > KRUS > EUUS
KREU is literally seconds thats why you never see it in tournaments
On February 05 2011 22:30 wiperkill wrote: Also looking for the last match. It says in the list of vods on the page that it's 2:42:16 long but when I play it it's only 1:59:46, cuts out just as the final match starts
edit: Nvm you have to choose part 2 on the right side of the video.
I cant see part 2 anywhere...
It's in the box with the heart, where you can choose to follow GosuCoachingTV.
What an amazing TvT. Anyone who doubts TvT is a great matchup should watch this match. Great job by Jinro and Select. Great job by incontrol and sheth. Best match I've seen in a *long* time.
On February 05 2011 21:18 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: EU to US is not miniscule or not a factor. it's definitely there but KR to US is on another level and EU to KR is unplayable.
in terms of lag KREU > KRUS > EUUS
KREU is literally seconds thats why you never see it in tournaments
The constant tank re-adjustment as they both tried to hold their lines was amazing! That had to be just a tough game for both of them. I will say that you could tell Jinro had some lag, but I’m not saying that to take anything away from seleCT. seleCT is an amazing player, and I could easily have seen that go either way regardless of the lag. Great job to both Jinro and seleCT!
It’s funny I watched that battle and shortly after that got into a similar situation. I took the win, and I think it’s because of watching that battle. It make me really think about where exactly do I want my tanks.
EPT![[image loading]](http://www.gosucoaching.com/sites/default/files/resize/imagecache/standardpage_large/Web-Overlay_1-565x202.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/teams/32.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/vHB9A.png)
![[image loading]](http://play.fnatic.com/public/img/flags/eu.gif)
Liquid vs 
Liquid`Tyler <Blistering Sands> 
Liquid`Ret <Shakuras> 
Liquid`TLO <Xel Naga> ![[image loading]](http://i41.tinypic.com/2a8romg.jpg)
+ Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://i42.tinypic.com/2dvsjvc.jpg)
+ Show Spoiler +
, sad that their mirrors though but sjow v jinro is gonna be godlike
Liquid`Tyler <Blistering Sands> 
Liquid`Ret <Shakuras> 
Liquid`TLO <Xel Naga> 
![[image loading]](http://img573.imageshack.us/img573/3550/incscience.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/QOFII.jpg)
