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Active: 1471 users

GSL Code S Group Structure Announced

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
Post a Reply
The Touch
Profile Joined September 2010
United Kingdom667 Posts
December 16 2010 12:25 GMT
#1
I had a quick look and couldn't find anything specifically related to this, so if I've missed the thread then I apologise.

GomTV have announced the way the rankings will be decided for the Code S groups

In GomTV's words:

+ Show Spoiler +
Hello everyone,

Yesterday the Code S players were divided into 8 groups of 4 by the group drawing. Now We will explain how the group league works. The 8 groups of Code S players will play in a ‘GOMtv League’ format. The ‘GOMtv League’ format can be defined as Full Group League + Double Elimination Format.

1. The ‘GOMtv League’ format consists of 3 Turns.
2. From the record up to Turn 2, player(s) with 2 wins advance into Ro16 / player(s) with 2 loses are disqualified.
3. If it is not determined up to Turn 2 the qualifiers and disqualifiers with the rank of the group is determined in Turn 3.
4. This allows every player to play one another so that we can have diverse matches and also makes the matches more competitive because you are disqualified with 2 loses. So it is a mixture of the Full Group League and the Double Elimination Format.

This is how each group is composed.
Code S has 8 groups of 4 players.
A B
C D

Rank 1~8 players from the previous tournament are each positioned in A by the group drawing.
Rank 9~16 players are each positioned in C by the group drawing.
Rank 17~32 players are positioned in B & D of each group by the group drawing.
The match up always start as A vs. B and C vs. D.
The winner will play the loser in each turn.
So if B and D loses the next match up will be A vs. D and B vs. C.

The biggest point in this format is that in the group of 4 players, you have to win against at least 2 players to advance.
It is different from a full league because there will be no tie breakers and every match will be a rank deciding match which will improve the player’s performance.
In typical group leagues, matches between players who are confirmed to be disqualified tend to be boring to watch. However the rank matters in the ‘GOMtv League’ format because the 4th player will only get one chance to remain in Code S through the ‘Up and Down Matches’ while the 3rd player gets two chances.

Here is an example of how the 'GOMtv League' works.

There is 4 players(A, B, C, D) in a group.

Turn 1 : A vs. B, C vs. D
* Let’s assume that players A and C wins.

Turn 2 : A(1W) vs. D(1L), B(1L) vs. C(1W)
* From here there 3 types of scenario can occur.

Case 1. Winners continue to win
A(2W), D(2L), B(2L), C(2W)
-> A, C advances to Ro16 / B, D drops to the ‘Up and Down Matches’. The rank from 1 to 4 will be decided after the match ups in turn 3. A vs. C , B vs. D

Case 2. Only 1 of the previous winners continue to win
A(2W), D(2L), B(1W 1L), C(1W 1L)
-> A is rank 1st of this group and D is rank 4th. Rank 2nd and 3rd will be decided after the match up in turn 3. B vs. C

Case 3. Every player get 1W 1L
A(1W 1L), D(1W 1L), B(1W 1L), C(1W 1L)
-> Turn 3 will be A vs. C, B vs. D. The winners of these match ups will advance into Ro16. Two players will be tied at 2W 1L and the other two at 1W 2L. So the rank from 1 to 4 will be decided by the record of who won the match up between the tied players.

Code S group list : http://www.gomtv.net/2010gslopens3/news/292


So, rather than a traditional league format, in which everybody plays everybody else and the groups each have 6 series every time (using the GomTV notation, the games would be AvB, CvD, AvC, BvD, AvD, BvC), the GomTV Code S groups will often play only 5 series because, say, A wins two in a row, causing D to lose two in a row. If this happens in every group the group stages could take up only 40 series, instead of the 48 that a full league would invariably take. This should ease the strain on the casters, which shows through clearly after the crazy schedule of casting 7 games a day for two weeks.

But what I found most interesting, and I really look forward to this cropping up on State of the Game, is that the GomTV wording suggests that they have opted against using an extended series to differentiate between B and C , and will instead treat the 2nd series as a separate entity.
You Got The Touch
dala
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden477 Posts
December 16 2010 12:43 GMT
#2
On December 16 2010 21:25 The Touch wrote:
But what I found most interesting, and I really look forward to this cropping up on State of the Game, is that the GomTV wording suggests that they have opted against using an extended series
to differentiate between B and C , and will instead treat the 2nd series as a separate entity.


The group plays in GSL 2011 has nothing with extended series to do.

There are so many misconceptions about extended series. They could only occur when two player face each other twice in a tournament. This will never happen during the group plays of GSL 2011. Each player only meet each other once.
shannn
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Netherlands2891 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-16 12:52:29
December 16 2010 12:46 GMT
#3
On December 16 2010 21:43 dala wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 16 2010 21:25 The Touch wrote:
But what I found most interesting, and I really look forward to this cropping up on State of the Game, is that the GomTV wording suggests that they have opted against using an extended series
to differentiate between B and C , and will instead treat the 2nd series as a separate entity.


The group plays in GSL 2011 has nothing with extended series to do.

There are so many misconceptions about extended series. They could only occur when two player face each other twice in a tournament. This will never happen during the group plays of GSL 2011. Each player only meet each other once.

This is not entirely true about GSL 2011 Groupstage of Code S.
There is 1 scenario in which u don't play all 3 of your opponents that is if you are tied 1-1 and there is 1 player with 2-0 in which u play against your opponent who is also 1-1 making it a bo3 instead of roudn robin.

lol totally forgot but the thread was already made (link). It's just moved to Community news.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=6321864 Epic post.
dala
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden477 Posts
December 16 2010 13:14 GMT
#4
On December 16 2010 21:46 shannn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 16 2010 21:43 dala wrote:
On December 16 2010 21:25 The Touch wrote:
But what I found most interesting, and I really look forward to this cropping up on State of the Game, is that the GomTV wording suggests that they have opted against using an extended series
to differentiate between B and C , and will instead treat the 2nd series as a separate entity.


The group plays in GSL 2011 has nothing with extended series to do.

There are so many misconceptions about extended series. They could only occur when two player face each other twice in a tournament. This will never happen during the group plays of GSL 2011. Each player only meet each other once.

This is not entirely true about GSL 2011 Groupstage of Code S.
There is 1 scenario in which u don't play all 3 of your opponents that is if you are tied 1-1 and there is 1 player with 2-0 in which u play against your opponent who is also 1-1 making it a bo3 instead of roudn robin.

lol totally forgot but the thread was already made (link). It's just moved to Community news.


Sure, sometimes the third match will be cancelled if it does not affect the group ranking. But my impression was that ties between two players are determined by the result of the direct match. Hence no two players will play each other twice during the group play.

shannn
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Netherlands2891 Posts
December 16 2010 13:21 GMT
#5
On December 16 2010 22:14 dala wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 16 2010 21:46 shannn wrote:
On December 16 2010 21:43 dala wrote:
On December 16 2010 21:25 The Touch wrote:
But what I found most interesting, and I really look forward to this cropping up on State of the Game, is that the GomTV wording suggests that they have opted against using an extended series
to differentiate between B and C , and will instead treat the 2nd series as a separate entity.


The group plays in GSL 2011 has nothing with extended series to do.

There are so many misconceptions about extended series. They could only occur when two player face each other twice in a tournament. This will never happen during the group plays of GSL 2011. Each player only meet each other once.

This is not entirely true about GSL 2011 Groupstage of Code S.
There is 1 scenario in which u don't play all 3 of your opponents that is if you are tied 1-1 and there is 1 player with 2-0 in which u play against your opponent who is also 1-1 making it a bo3 instead of roudn robin.

lol totally forgot but the thread was already made (link). It's just moved to Community news.


Sure, sometimes the third match will be cancelled if it does not affect the group ranking. But my impression was that ties between two players are determined by the result of the direct match. Hence no two players will play each other twice during the group play.


Yea the point GOM made is they don't want tie breakers so they made this list of rules and format of the tournament.
So basically it's either 3 Bo1's or 1 Bo1 and 1 Bo3 with Bo3 having the result from the Bo1 taken into account).
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=6321864 Epic post.
Redox
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany24794 Posts
December 16 2010 13:38 GMT
#6
System is ok, avoids 3-way ties. But also depends on luck who you have to play against.

But: are the matches in the group stage bo1, bo3, bo5 or what? Didnt read that anywhere.
Off-season = best season
asdfVSqwert
Profile Joined July 2006
Germany174 Posts
December 16 2010 13:46 GMT
#7
Sorry but is there any date on which the Code S Tournament starts?
1# Fan of myself
The Touch
Profile Joined September 2010
United Kingdom667 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-16 13:57:51
December 16 2010 13:54 GMT
#8
On December 16 2010 22:14 dala wrote:
Sure, sometimes the third match will be cancelled if it does not affect the group ranking. But my impression was that ties between two players are determined by the result of the direct match. Hence no two players will play each other twice during the group play.


GomTV Scenario Case 2 makes things clear:

Turn 1
AvB - A wins. A goes 1-0, B goes 0-1
CvD - C wins. C goes 1-0, D goes 0-1

Turn 2
AvD - A wins. A goes 2-0, D goes 0-2
BvC - B wins. B goes 1-1, C goes 1-1

A takes 1st place in the group as he is the first to qualify
D takes 4th place in the group as he is the first to be eliminated
Neither A nor D plays again in the group.
Both B and C are now at 1 win and 1 loss

Turn 3
BvC - C wins. B goes 1-2, C goes 2-1

C takes 2nd place in the group as he is the second to qualify
B takes 3rd place in the group as he is the second to be eliminated

This clearly gives rise to the possibility that B is 3-2 over C but is eliminated. That's why I expect the extended series debate to be revived on State of the Game. I'm not stating my own opinion on the matter; I'm just saying the debate is now relevant to the GSL as well as MLG.
You Got The Touch
shannn
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Netherlands2891 Posts
December 16 2010 13:54 GMT
#9
On December 16 2010 22:38 Redox wrote:
System is ok, avoids 3-way ties. But also depends on luck who you have to play against.

But: are the matches in the group stage bo1, bo3, bo5 or what? Didnt read that anywhere.

Groupstage is in bo1.

On December 16 2010 22:46 asdfVSqwert wrote:
Sorry but is there any date on which the Code S Tournament starts?

Nope. But we do know what matchups there are on the first playday of all groups though.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=6321864 Epic post.
The Touch
Profile Joined September 2010
United Kingdom667 Posts
December 16 2010 14:07 GMT
#10
On December 16 2010 22:54 shannn wrote:
Groupstage is in bo1.


Where did you get that info? I saw that some of the Code A matches were BO1, but I didn't see anything about the Code S matches saying the same.

The only info we have is from http://www.gomtv.net/2010gslopens3/news/297

On December 15 GomTV wrote:
Code S
- Ro32 ~ Ro16 Group League
- The 32 highest ranking players of 2010 will be divided into 8 groups of 4.
- The players in each group will play one another and the 1st and 2nd place players will advance to Ro16. (The 3rd and 4th player will have to play in the ‘Up and Down Match’.)
- Ro8 ~ Finals Tournament (Ro8 : best of 3, Semifinals : best of 5, Finals : best of 7)
- One group will play each day.
- Players who advance to Ro16 will remain in Code S.
- The 16 players who fail to qualify for Ro16 will have to play in the ‘Up and Down Match’
- The group will be determined by a public lottery which will be held on the following Monday of each GSL Sponsorship League.


If it really is BO1, then that sucks. It would negate the extended series debate, but it is an awful way of dividing people on skill, and is far less fun to watch. Watching 5 or 6 BO1s a day would really suck, but 5 or 6 BO3 series would be genuinely exciting.
You Got The Touch
shannn
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Netherlands2891 Posts
December 16 2010 14:25 GMT
#11
On December 16 2010 23:07 The Touch wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 16 2010 22:54 shannn wrote:
Groupstage is in bo1.


Where did you get that info? I saw that some of the Code A matches were BO1, but I didn't see anything about the Code S matches saying the same.

The only info we have is from http://www.gomtv.net/2010gslopens3/news/297

Show nested quote +
On December 15 GomTV wrote:
Code S
- Ro32 ~ Ro16 Group League
- The 32 highest ranking players of 2010 will be divided into 8 groups of 4.
- The players in each group will play one another and the 1st and 2nd place players will advance to Ro16. (The 3rd and 4th player will have to play in the ‘Up and Down Match’.)
- Ro8 ~ Finals Tournament (Ro8 : best of 3, Semifinals : best of 5, Finals : best of 7)
- One group will play each day.
- Players who advance to Ro16 will remain in Code S.
- The 16 players who fail to qualify for Ro16 will have to play in the ‘Up and Down Match’
- The group will be determined by a public lottery which will be held on the following Monday of each GSL Sponsorship League.


If it really is BO1, then that sucks. It would negate the extended series debate, but it is an awful way of dividing people on skill, and is far less fun to watch. Watching 5 or 6 BO1s a day would really suck, but 5 or 6 BO3 series would be genuinely exciting.

Took me a while where the source was. Had to use an extensive search ><

anyways (Link)

At code S point 9

9. Each group stage will be Bo1, Ro8 is Bo3, Ro4 Bo5, and the Finals is Bo7.

There is your answer
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=6321864 Epic post.
Ihle
Profile Joined October 2010
Norway36 Posts
December 16 2010 14:45 GMT
#12
Bo1!! Seriously? This is the best players in the world and they are playing bo1, just makes it so random and stupid.
DrakeFZX3
Profile Joined October 2010
United States925 Posts
December 16 2010 15:15 GMT
#13
I have a feeling someone is goin to ActionJesuz their way into the Round of 8.
SoftSoap
Profile Joined November 2010
United States170 Posts
December 16 2010 15:19 GMT
#14
On December 16 2010 21:46 shannn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 16 2010 21:43 dala wrote:
On December 16 2010 21:25 The Touch wrote:
But what I found most interesting, and I really look forward to this cropping up on State of the Game, is that the GomTV wording suggests that they have opted against using an extended series
to differentiate between B and C , and will instead treat the 2nd series as a separate entity.


The group plays in GSL 2011 has nothing with extended series to do.

There are so many misconceptions about extended series. They could only occur when two player face each other twice in a tournament. This will never happen during the group plays of GSL 2011. Each player only meet each other once.

This is not entirely true about GSL 2011 Groupstage of Code S.
There is 1 scenario in which u don't play all 3 of your opponents that is if you are tied 1-1 and there is 1 player with 2-0 in which u play against your opponent who is also 1-1 making it a bo3 instead of roudn robin.

lol totally forgot but the thread was already made (link). It's just moved to Community news.


Thank you for the clarification, I was really confused. Is this translated through google orr...? But anyways, I'm sure artosis will talk about it in his youtube channel.
Tasteless, "IdrA always pulls out on time."
The Touch
Profile Joined September 2010
United Kingdom667 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-16 15:27:38
December 16 2010 15:23 GMT
#15
On December 16 2010 23:25 shannn wrote:
Took me a while where the source was. Had to use an extensive search ><

anyways (Link)

At code S point 9
Show nested quote +

9. Each group stage will be Bo1, Ro8 is Bo3, Ro4 Bo5, and the Finals is Bo7.

There is your answer


Thanks - that settles that then, assuming the translation is accurate and that GomTV haven't changed their mind since then. And it's a shame, because BO1 is awful.

But since there's already a thread in Community News, I suppose this one is now redundant.
You Got The Touch
strongandbig
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4858 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-16 15:40:10
December 16 2010 15:38 GMT
#16
So from looking at John the translator's twitter, it seems that Gom's real motivation for this bizarre structure is that, unlike a traditional group structure with tiebreakers, there is never a situation in which a player can intentionally lose to a teammate and not be worse off for it.

For example, suppose that players A, B, and C are all on the same team. A in this example is really good, the other three are about the same skill.

Round 1:
A>B, C>D
Then Round 2:
A>C, D>B
Now, A is 2-0, C and D are 1-1, and B is 0-2.
A plays D and B plays C.
Now, suppose B beats C, putting them both at 1-2. Ordinarily, A would beat D, since A is the better player. That would put the other three players into a 1-2 tiebreaker round. However, if A loses on purpose to D, A and D would advance, with no need for a tiebreaker.

Under Gom's system, A would already have advanced after winning his first two games. C and D, both at 1-1, would play a tiebreaker for the other spot.
"It's the torso" "only more so!"
dala
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden477 Posts
December 16 2010 18:34 GMT
#17
On December 16 2010 22:54 The Touch wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 16 2010 22:14 dala wrote:
Sure, sometimes the third match will be cancelled if it does not affect the group ranking. But my impression was that ties between two players are determined by the result of the direct match. Hence no two players will play each other twice during the group play.


GomTV Scenario Case 2 makes things clear:

Turn 1
AvB - A wins. A goes 1-0, B goes 0-1
CvD - C wins. C goes 1-0, D goes 0-1

Turn 2
AvD - A wins. A goes 2-0, D goes 0-2
BvC - B wins. B goes 1-1, C goes 1-1

A takes 1st place in the group as he is the first to qualify
D takes 4th place in the group as he is the first to be eliminated
Neither A nor D plays again in the group.
Both B and C are now at 1 win and 1 loss

Turn 3
BvC - C wins. B goes 1-2, C goes 2-1

C takes 2nd place in the group as he is the second to qualify
B takes 3rd place in the group as he is the second to be eliminated

This clearly gives rise to the possibility that B is 3-2 over C but is eliminated. That's why I expect the extended series debate to be revived on State of the Game. I'm not stating my own opinion on the matter; I'm just saying the debate is now relevant to the GSL as well as MLG.


So that people does not misunderstand:
There would not be a "Turn 3" in this case, since B and C has already played against each other in "Turn 2", and that resulted in B being better than C and hence would be ranked higher. That is why the extended series debate is not relevant.
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