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[GSL] S3 Qualifiers D2 - Page 235

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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Zlasher
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States9129 Posts
November 16 2010 10:51 GMT
#4681
On November 16 2010 19:47 dcemuser wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 16 2010 19:45 Nu11 wrote:
After watching incontrols answer to who is artosis it makes me feel really nice inside that artosis has got farther in the GSL than incontrol. So happy he lost, doesn't deserve it honestly. Isn't anything special of a player either.


This is flat out rude.

Incontrol was joking around during the "Who's Artosis?" question, and Incontrol and Artosis are actually friends.

Incontrol is staying at Artosis's place in Korea, and they drove together to the GSL qualifiers. He was just giving Artosis a hard time.


To be fair in the interview he said he was staying at Idra's place, not artosis's, but yes those two are friends that guy several years back lol, and incontrol has stated that of course he was joking.

Also to be fair, Artosis didn't make it further than incontrol, they made it equally far, didn't they? (final round before RO64)
Follow me: www.twitter.com/zlasher
Liquid`Jinro
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
Sweden33719 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-16 10:51:43
November 16 2010 10:51 GMT
#4682
On November 16 2010 19:49 LittleeD wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 16 2010 19:45 estee wrote:
Update: Foxer replied: I'll change my ID to 김가연 Kim Ga Yeon.

lmao


Is this a joke or whats going on ?:>

Thats BoxeRs (the real one) girlfriend (shes an actress I believe).

On November 16 2010 19:51 ZlaSHeR wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 16 2010 19:47 dcemuser wrote:
On November 16 2010 19:45 Nu11 wrote:
After watching incontrols answer to who is artosis it makes me feel really nice inside that artosis has got farther in the GSL than incontrol. So happy he lost, doesn't deserve it honestly. Isn't anything special of a player either.


This is flat out rude.

Incontrol was joking around during the "Who's Artosis?" question, and Incontrol and Artosis are actually friends.

Incontrol is staying at Artosis's place in Korea, and they drove together to the GSL qualifiers. He was just giving Artosis a hard time.


To be fair in the interview he said he was staying at Idra's place, not artosis's, but yes those two are friends that guy several years back lol, and incontrol has stated that of course he was joking.

Also to be fair, Artosis didn't make it further than incontrol, they made it equally far, didn't they? (final round before RO64)

Artosis made it into the first GSL.
Moderatortell the guy that interplanatar interaction is pivotal to terrans variety of optionitudals in the pre-midgame preperatories as well as the protosstinal deterriggation of elite zergling strikes - Stimey n | Formerly FrozenArbiter
dtz
Profile Joined September 2010
5834 Posts
November 16 2010 10:51 GMT
#4683
On November 16 2010 19:49 estee wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 16 2010 19:48 ZapRoffo wrote:
On November 16 2010 19:47 zivac wrote:
who is 스타테일꼬부기? (#14 KR)

The clan tag is startale but don't know the player.


He was previously known as 빅쏭WeRRa


There was this extremely good protoss from Werra ( Vicsong.werra?) who was tearing it up in the Clan War special. Is that him?

If that's him then it seems all hope for Protoss is not lost.
motbob
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States12546 Posts
November 16 2010 10:52 GMT
#4684
+ Show Spoiler +
On November 16 2010 18:45 EGalex wrote:
Hey Everyone,

This is my first post on TL - long time reader, though (I don't usually participate on forums). For those of you who don't know me (probably, erm, every one of you), I'm the owner of Evil Geniuses... for those of you who watched the EG Masters' Cup stream so brilliantly produced by EG.SirScoots, I was "That Guy Behind The Broadcast Desk Who Didn't Want To Be On Cam." I've been involved in pro gaming for a long time now, and I decided to register my account on TL just now because I all of a sudden find this thread very problematic.

As everyone here is probably aware, TL is a juggernaut SC entity in eSports, and "wears two hats," so to say, as both a professional team and a coverage website. Some would argue that its influence as a coverage website and community stretches further than the influence of its pro players. In any case, obviously the two identities are intertwined and overlap to a certain extent.

Moving on (finally) to my point: as a very important, influential coverage hub focusing on what is currently pro gaming's most prevalent community, you can't be censoring players' names. I don't want to jump the gun and start waving around the "journalistic integrity" card prematurely, but I think it's pretty significant. Sure, TL isn't ESPN (yet), and sure, this is a forum-embedded community news piece updated by a very dedicated TL community member (for which I am grateful), but those - to me - are no excuse for throwing high standards of unbiased journalism to the side. It doesn't matter whether this is a forum post or a front-page news piece: you can't be censoring players' names or clan names just because they beat a community favorite.

Unfortunately, this pattern isn't necessarily restricted to this particular thread. There is a very minor (albeit certainly noticeable) trend on TL of posters only ensuring that Liquid pro players have their clan name mentioned - I.E. HuK is always referred to in TL coverage as Liquid`HuK, whereas SeleCt, for example, has always been just "SeleCt" and never "Dignitas.SeleCt" (at least as far as I've seen). This seems to vary based on the player and the community's familiarity with said player - IdrA, for example, is always referred to be the TL coverage folks as "EGIdrA" (we at EG are thankful for this) - but it is certainly a consistent trend. TL players are always referred to as TL players, but players from other pro teams don't necessarily always have their team name attached to their alias.

This is, of course, certainly *not* a case of intentional bias, and I'm not insinuating that it is in any way (I recently met Nazgul and several other TL executives at Blizzcon, and they held themselves with the utmost integrity and professionalism). At the end of the day, like many in this thread have pointed out, this is TL's home territory, and those covering competitions here ensure, first and foremost, that they point out what's going on with TL pro players. However, with that being said, sometimes intent is irrelevant (or close to it) when discussing matters of this matter - I.E., is neglecting to put in the care/effort to refer to SeleCt (for example) as Dignitas.SeleCt really any better than intentionally leaving out the team name? Maybe marginally better... but maybe not at all.

To summarize this already too-long post, I think it's really important for everyone in this community to remember that TL, while still a team website, is definitively the SC2 coverage hub of the English-speaking world. And any kind of journalistic bias here, whether intentional or unintentional, whether major or extremely minor (as minor as censoring a player's name because he beat HuK today), whether coming from an official TL coverage staff member or a dedicated community member not officially affiliated with TL, is extremely, extremely problematic. With this website getting the amount of traffic and attention that it does get (and should get), the coverage here needs to be held to high standards of journalistic integrity.

And at the end of the day, sure, this is TL's home base, and favoring TL's pro players in coverage posts - if it is desired to do so - may be TL's right... but doing something just because you have the power to ("just because you can") is really a very poor justification for doing anything.

(Thanks to those of you who actually read all of this)

-A

Edit: In the time it took me to write all of this, the censorship was removed. I think the points are still valid, though .



Since I sort of... am... GSL3 coverage by virtue of all the thread I've made, I guess I need to respond to this.

tl;dr, I am not staff. But if you want a fuller explanation of my actions, please continue reading.

I always make an effort to list a player under the name by which he is most well known. You brought up the example of Select. If you could please draw your attention to the most current US battle.net rankings, you would see that SeleCT, as recently as one week ago, simply has the ID "SeleCT." He does not have a clan tag attached. He has not had one, in fact, since he first appeared on the scene. He is best known as, simply, SeleCT.

In fact, the vast majority of SC2 progamers have been known simply by their base name. Drewbie, CatZ, and SLush, though they currently wear the ROOT tag on battle.net, did not do so before the name change. Nor did iNcontroL, nor did Inka. (This information, by the way, can be easily confirmed with google searches consisting of sc2ranks and the name of the progamer in question.) These gamers have played without a clan tag in every single SC2 event that they entered before the name change. When we, as spectators, moused over these players' names in replays of our favorite gosus, we did not see a clan tag.

This was also true of Liquid players like Huk, who joined Liquid late and only switched their name after the name change. But the reason why there seems to be a double standard is that there has been enormous hoopla on this website over each new player who joins Liquid. "RET IS NOW LIQUID`RET" was, I think, part of the lead of the news article on Ret's inclusion into Liquid. His name on TL was changed, and in formal announcements afterwards, TL staff were sure to use his full name, clan tag and all (for example, "TLAF-Liquid`HuK will play ViBE at 21:00 EDT in the Ro16 of the EG Master's tournament.")

This clear sense of pride in the fact that members of Liquid belong to Liquid trickles down to the rest of the populace.

I am not staff. This is an important point. My actions do not reflect the feelings of the administration of this website. I am just a guy updating an LR thread... for 8 hours straight... two nights in a row. So if I get a visceral thrill from adding the Liquid` tag in front of Ret's name for the reasons explained above (and I do!), but I don't get that same thrill from adding clan tags to other players, then I will only add the tags for Liquid. That's just the way it is. I am just a guy updating a thread. I am not a journalist. The OP of this thread is not a news story. If I were a writer for TL and were writing a GSL preview article for the Featured News section, then I would have to strictly adhere to basic principles of journalistic integrity. But in this case, I bent those principles in the name of making a joke (by censoring Aya's name).
ModeratorGood content always wins.
estee
Profile Joined November 2010
Korea (South)449 Posts
November 16 2010 10:52 GMT
#4685
On November 16 2010 19:51 dtz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 16 2010 19:49 estee wrote:
On November 16 2010 19:48 ZapRoffo wrote:
On November 16 2010 19:47 zivac wrote:
who is 스타테일꼬부기? (#14 KR)

The clan tag is startale but don't know the player.


He was previously known as 빅쏭WeRRa


There was this extremely good protoss from Werra ( Vicsong.werra?) who was tearing it up in the Clan War special. Is that him?

If that's him then it seems all hope for Protoss is not lost.


Yeh that's him.
coddan
Profile Joined May 2010
Estonia890 Posts
November 16 2010 10:52 GMT
#4686
On November 16 2010 19:50 Azza wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 16 2010 19:47 dcemuser wrote:
On November 16 2010 19:45 Nu11 wrote:
After watching incontrols answer to who is artosis it makes me feel really nice inside that artosis has got farther in the GSL than incontrol. So happy he lost, doesn't deserve it honestly. Isn't anything special of a player either.


This is flat out rude.

Incontrol was joking around during the "Who's Artosis?" question, and Incontrol and Artosis are actually friends.

Incontrol is staying at Artosis's place in Korea, and they drove together to the GSL qualifiers. He was just giving Artosis a hard time.


I have no doubt it was just a joke and they are friends, but stop making shit up like they drove to gsl together to make your point.


they went there together on the subway
zivac
Profile Joined October 2010
Croatia389 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-16 10:53:26
November 16 2010 10:52 GMT
#4687
so sad for todays race distribution :/
sleepingdog
Profile Joined August 2008
Austria6145 Posts
November 16 2010 10:52 GMT
#4688
Does anybody know who oGsVINES is? Somebody from another clan, maybe old Werra? Or a total newcomer?
"You see....YOU SEE..." © 2010 Sen
dcemuser
Profile Joined August 2010
United States3248 Posts
November 16 2010 10:53 GMT
#4689
On November 16 2010 19:50 Azza wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 16 2010 19:47 dcemuser wrote:
On November 16 2010 19:45 Nu11 wrote:
After watching incontrols answer to who is artosis it makes me feel really nice inside that artosis has got farther in the GSL than incontrol. So happy he lost, doesn't deserve it honestly. Isn't anything special of a player either.


This is flat out rude.

Incontrol was joking around during the "Who's Artosis?" question, and Incontrol and Artosis are actually friends.

Incontrol is staying at Artosis's place in Korea, and they drove together to the GSL qualifiers. He was just giving Artosis a hard time.


I have no doubt it was just a joke and they are friends, but stop making shit up like they drove to gsl together to make your point.

http://twitter.com/Artosis/status/3958464216825857
"on subway to grab incontrol, then over to the gsl!"
I guess it wasn't driving as much as directing via streets, walking, and using subways due to how South Korea works, so my bad there, but they DID go to the GSL together.
Zlasher
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States9129 Posts
November 16 2010 10:53 GMT
#4690
On November 16 2010 19:51 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 16 2010 19:49 LittleeD wrote:
On November 16 2010 19:45 estee wrote:
Update: Foxer replied: I'll change my ID to 김가연 Kim Ga Yeon.

lmao


Is this a joke or whats going on ?:>

Thats BoxeRs (the real one) girlfriend (shes an actress I believe).

Show nested quote +
On November 16 2010 19:51 ZlaSHeR wrote:
On November 16 2010 19:47 dcemuser wrote:
On November 16 2010 19:45 Nu11 wrote:
After watching incontrols answer to who is artosis it makes me feel really nice inside that artosis has got farther in the GSL than incontrol. So happy he lost, doesn't deserve it honestly. Isn't anything special of a player either.


This is flat out rude.

Incontrol was joking around during the "Who's Artosis?" question, and Incontrol and Artosis are actually friends.

Incontrol is staying at Artosis's place in Korea, and they drove together to the GSL qualifiers. He was just giving Artosis a hard time.


To be fair in the interview he said he was staying at Idra's place, not artosis's, but yes those two are friends that guy several years back lol, and incontrol has stated that of course he was joking.

Also to be fair, Artosis didn't make it further than incontrol, they made it equally far, didn't they? (final round before RO64)

Artosis made it into the first GSL.


Yes, but I figured he was talking about just this qualifier.

In that case Torch's achievements are equal to yours and haypros, which I don't think is a proper comparison.

In the qualifier in which both incontrol and artosis played in, incontrol and artosis both made it equally far

In the two qualifiers which, deduced by logic, were as a whole easier to qualify in than a 3rd time, later tournament, artosis qualified once and didn't make it once.
Follow me: www.twitter.com/zlasher
dtz
Profile Joined September 2010
5834 Posts
November 16 2010 10:53 GMT
#4691
On November 16 2010 19:50 Azza wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 16 2010 19:47 dcemuser wrote:
On November 16 2010 19:45 Nu11 wrote:
After watching incontrols answer to who is artosis it makes me feel really nice inside that artosis has got farther in the GSL than incontrol. So happy he lost, doesn't deserve it honestly. Isn't anything special of a player either.


This is flat out rude.

Incontrol was joking around during the "Who's Artosis?" question, and Incontrol and Artosis are actually friends.

Incontrol is staying at Artosis's place in Korea, and they drove together to the GSL qualifiers. He was just giving Artosis a hard time.


I have no doubt it was just a joke and they are friends, but stop making shit up like they drove to gsl together to make your point.


no actually they did go together. artosis said he was picking up incontrol and then they went to the qualifier together. They probably took public transport though.
kmkg
Profile Joined August 2010
Japan186 Posts
November 16 2010 10:55 GMT
#4692
Foxer not changing his nick yet is starting to get weird. So even if stealing a nick as a tribute to your idol is a weak excuse, he lived up to it and all was good. But what's his excuse now? Optimus or Maximus or Legolas, or w/e but he should change it.
Arceus
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
Vietnam8333 Posts
November 16 2010 10:55 GMT
#4693
who goes by the name of Sherif Botros ? hes #31 in D-2 (SeleCT is 09)
plus I dont see Tasteless anywhere
estee
Profile Joined November 2010
Korea (South)449 Posts
November 16 2010 10:55 GMT
#4694
윤중욱 (Yoon Joong Wook) 토샤드 advances.
dcemuser
Profile Joined August 2010
United States3248 Posts
November 16 2010 10:56 GMT
#4695
On November 16 2010 19:55 kmkg wrote:
Foxer not changing his nick yet is starting to get weird. So even if stealing a nick as a tribute to your idol is a weak excuse, he lived up to it and all was good. But what's his excuse now? Optimus or Maximus or Legolas, or w/e but he should change it.


He said he was going to change it even he won, maybe he thinks he'd be called a liar if he changed it?
Avius
Profile Joined October 2007
Iraq1796 Posts
November 16 2010 10:56 GMT
#4696
So to end this debate: motbob is not staff, get off his back, he makes trillions on EVE Online and does an amazing job covering this event. Thanks for all the hard work you put into it.

And ontopic: I didn't see anything abou Tasteless, is he still in his games? And Lim Yo Hwan seems like he is close to qualifying. Let's do this!
aka. Samael
maro
Profile Joined August 2010
Netherlands134 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-16 10:58:32
November 16 2010 10:56 GMT
#4697
Sherif Botros?

LOL


Foreigners Fighting

edit; Could've sworn it said Brotos. I'm sleepy.

I'm gonna get wasted on this sodaaa
GTR
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
51698 Posts
November 16 2010 10:56 GMT
#4698
On November 16 2010 19:52 sleepingdog wrote:
Does anybody know who oGsVINES is? Somebody from another clan, maybe old Werra? Or a total newcomer?


his id before the changes: 비네스
Commentator
zivac
Profile Joined October 2010
Croatia389 Posts
November 16 2010 10:56 GMT
#4699

[image loading]
Liquid`Jinro
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
Sweden33719 Posts
November 16 2010 10:57 GMT
#4700
On November 16 2010 19:52 sleepingdog wrote:
Does anybody know who oGsVINES is? Somebody from another clan, maybe old Werra? Or a total newcomer?

Before joining oGs, his ladder ID was simply 비네스, ie VINES in korean. He finished in the top 4 of an oGs tournament and was invited to join.

This was a month ago or so I guess.
Moderatortell the guy that interplanatar interaction is pivotal to terrans variety of optionitudals in the pre-midgame preperatories as well as the protosstinal deterriggation of elite zergling strikes - Stimey n | Formerly FrozenArbiter
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