• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 02:24
CEST 08:24
KST 15:24
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro4 Preview: On Course12Code S Season 1 - RO8 Preview7[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Progenitors8Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A: Rogue, Percival, Solar, Zoun13[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt1: Inheritors16
Community News
Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO8 Results1Weekly Cups (May 4-10): Clem, MaxPax, herO win1Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule !11Weekly Cups (April 27-May 4): Clem takes triple0RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event12
StarCraft 2
General
Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO8 Results MaNa leaves Team Liquid Weekly Cups (May 4-10): Clem, MaxPax, herO win Code S Season 1 - RO8 Preview
Tourneys
2026 GSL Season 2 Qualifiers Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule ! $5,000 WardiTV Spring Championship 2026 SC2 INu's Battles#16 <BO.9> Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2)
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players
External Content
Mutation # 525 Wheel of Misfortune The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 524 Death and Taxes Mutation # 523 Firewall
Brood War
General
Pros React to: TvT Masterclass in FlaSh vs Light vespene.gg — BW replays in browser ASL21 Strategy, Pimpest Plays Discussions Flashes ASL S21 Ro8 Review BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
[ASL21] Semifinals B [ASL21] Semifinals A [BSL22] RO8 Bracket Stage + Another TieBreaker Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Hydra ZvZ: An Introduction Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Starcraft Tabletop Miniature Game PC Games Sales Thread
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread UK Politics Mega-thread YouTube Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
streaming software Strange computer issues (software) [G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How EEG Data Can Predict Gam…
TrAiDoS
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1978 users

[G]ZvZ muta/ling/bane/swarmhost - Page 2

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 All
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
July 10 2013 17:44 GMT
#21
On July 11 2013 01:51 Enema wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 11 2013 01:14 blade55555 wrote:
On July 11 2013 00:40 Enema wrote:
My actual question is weither you think swarmhost muta ling baneling works vs bio or not but let's leave that aside.

I enjoy going for swarmhosts in ZvZ but i usually go there of roaches as I personally have trouble making the switch from Muta to swarmhosts. I usually just go muta -> roach. I will give it a try


Yeah it can work vs bio, but it is very map dependent and tbh it's very easy to mess up and lose swarmhosts vs bio so there is that as well. I do it vs bio on a map like akilon for example, but never on a map like whirlwind.

Well isnt it also map dependend versus Zerg? Also how do you deal with Ling Baneling Ultra Infestor or just Ling Baneling Infestor. I ran into zergs who just blow up my locusts.


Not really because you don't need 4 base gas to tech and get ultras out pretty quickly. Thanks to mutalisks/ling/bane you are super mobile and can be defensive with it as well. I haven't found any weaknesses even on a map like whirlwind.

Also ling/bane/infestor I have never faced it because tbh that sounds terrible. The reason I am 99% sure this is an awful counter is because you should have ling/bane yourself and you should have mutalisks. Infestors don't deal with spread out mutalisks very well and if you are flanking with ling/bane and have a locust wave coming, I can not see a ling/bane/infestor army EVER killing that unless you only have 1 infestor and you were super behind all game.

For the ultra/ling/bane/infestor, I haven't faced that either because that's not a composition anyone ever goes. There are weaknesses to that to in that if I ever saw my opponent going mainly a ling/infestor composition (no roaches at all) I would be aggressive with swarmhost/muta/ling/bane.

I had an opponent try that to me a long time ago back when every zerg used to go double upgraded ling style and I never lost with a swarmhost push even when they made banelings. So I guess it could potentially work if you sit back and don't tech (remember you should be teching to ultra's as well).

Something I should have mentioned in the video is that if you are facing a roach composition you want to play defensive with swarmhosts while teching to hive, but if your opponent is going ling/infestor then you are to be aggressive. I didn't mention it because it has been a long, long time since I last played a zvz where my opponent went pure ling/infestor and never went roaches.
When I think of something else, something will go here
Railgan
Profile Joined August 2010
Switzerland1507 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-10 22:00:05
July 10 2013 21:59 GMT
#22
If you go 15 pool do you build your hatchery at 15 16 17 or 18?

If you see one / two evo chambers and suspect mass upgraded lings how do you deviate your build?

Sorry for asking so many questions but I am really interested^^
Grandmaster Zerg from Switzerland!!! www.twitch.tv/railgan // www.twitter.com/railgansc // www.youtube.com/c/railgansc
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
July 10 2013 22:06 GMT
#23
On July 11 2013 06:59 Enema wrote:
If you go 15 pool do you build your hatchery at 15 16 17 or 18?

If you see one / two evo chambers and suspect mass upgraded lings how do you deviate your build?

Sorry for asking so many questions but I am really interested^^



If I go 15 pool I go 15 pool 16 hatch.

Tbh I haven't faced a double upgraded ling style in a long, long time so I can't really comment other then what I think would work. I would get evo extra early and start +1 melee. This is so that lings get 1 shot by banelings. Would make more banelings then normal, and then go into mutalisks.

But as I said I haven't faced upgraded ling style in awhile, other then this video where he went +1 carapace lings, it's the first time I have seen an upgraded ling style in a long time it's really died off on the ladder.
When I think of something else, something will go here
Phanekim
Profile Joined April 2003
United States777 Posts
July 10 2013 23:38 GMT
#24
I've been doing this on 2v2s and I've always wondered if it would work in 1s. Seems like it does.
i like cheese
F.O.A.D.
Profile Joined July 2013
Canada100 Posts
July 10 2013 23:53 GMT
#25
Thanks for the guide, will definitely be trying this, I anticipate to great effect. Keep 'em coming!
Reenock | Gumibro | Soulkey | sC | jjakji | Mvp | Innovation | Seed | Hurricane | Sniper | Dream | Maru
faderedguy
Profile Joined June 2013
Indonesia58 Posts
July 11 2013 13:42 GMT
#26
Blade, how do you deal with roach ling bane all in with this?
Should I add roaches of my own?
work hard to achieve victory, don't whine your way into it
StillRooney
Profile Joined April 2010
Sweden106 Posts
July 11 2013 15:04 GMT
#27
Heya Blade, I've been watching your youtube videos on and off and I just want to say it's been a great help after coming back from a long hiatus. I'm crushing my ZvZ's with this build and the times I lose it's because I played suboptimally rather than the build being the problem. Thanks!
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
July 11 2013 18:00 GMT
#28
On July 11 2013 22:42 faderedguy wrote:
Blade, how do you deal with roach ling bane all in with this?
Should I add roaches of my own?


Just like any other all in you should be making quiet a few spines. If you want you can add roaches, but I personally never do that.
When I think of something else, something will go here
Nasreth
Profile Joined October 2011
United States48 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-12 17:08:10
July 12 2013 17:04 GMT
#29
Glad to see this surfacing as a popular build, I've been doing it since release to players who didn't open muta (especially after the spore buffs). It's really good for holding those 2 and early 3 base timings and it allows you to easily get to hive. I personally recommend broodlords as a followup over the ultralisk. Ultralisk don't synergize very well with swarm hosts -the locusts really mess with their pathing due to their range and quantity and the upgrades aren't the same.

Broodlords means you can forgo the melee upgrade in favor of ranged to make your locust stronger, and you already have +1 air from the mutalisk. Banelings prevent him from running underneath you with hydras and they also kill infested terrans very quickly, so the only thing he can do to stop your broodlords is either to build a spire and wrest air superiority from you or just mass counter attack and try to abuse your mobility.

Once you have broodlords out you can split your swarm hosts into more defensive positions (2-3 per expansion) to prevent counter attacks and attack with the rest of your army.
Why do I play Zerg? Because Kerrigan.
Lobotomist
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1541 Posts
July 12 2013 18:26 GMT
#30
Blade for president! Sick good guide, you do a great job on the vods. I've been wondering about transitioning out of muta against non-muta players for a while now, and this looks like the way to go.
Teching to hive too quickly isn't just a risk: it's an ultrarisk
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
July 12 2013 18:30 GMT
#31
On July 13 2013 02:04 Nasreth wrote:
Glad to see this surfacing as a popular build, I've been doing it since release to players who didn't open muta (especially after the spore buffs). It's really good for holding those 2 and early 3 base timings and it allows you to easily get to hive. I personally recommend broodlords as a followup over the ultralisk. Ultralisk don't synergize very well with swarm hosts -the locusts really mess with their pathing due to their range and quantity and the upgrades aren't the same.

Broodlords means you can forgo the melee upgrade in favor of ranged to make your locust stronger, and you already have +1 air from the mutalisk. Banelings prevent him from running underneath you with hydras and they also kill infested terrans very quickly, so the only thing he can do to stop your broodlords is either to build a spire and wrest air superiority from you or just mass counter attack and try to abuse your mobility.

Once you have broodlords out you can split your swarm hosts into more defensive positions (2-3 per expansion) to prevent counter attacks and attack with the rest of your army.


It's a stylistic choice. You can do either and be fine because ultras destroy a roach/bane army anyway. Also I prefer the ultralisks due to mobility and I have never been a big broodlord fan.

I also prefer getting melee upgrades over ranged because I am going ling/bane heavy with the swarmhosts and of course the transition.
When I think of something else, something will go here
Railgan
Profile Joined August 2010
Switzerland1507 Posts
July 19 2013 07:29 GMT
#32
I tried this build.

I find it hard to play offensive with swarmhosts versus a player going for three hatch roach hydra.

I was defending well and once crushed his push he mad a remax on ~40 Mutas and just killed me.

I suppose I should play more aggressive
Grandmaster Zerg from Switzerland!!! www.twitch.tv/railgan // www.twitter.com/railgansc // www.youtube.com/c/railgansc
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
July 19 2013 07:35 GMT
#33
On July 19 2013 16:29 Enema wrote:
I tried this build.

I find it hard to play offensive with swarmhosts versus a player going for three hatch roach hydra.

I was defending well and once crushed his push he mad a remax on ~40 Mutas and just killed me.

I suppose I should play more aggressive


How turtley were you playing? o_O. If you do the build like I do he shouldn't get a 4'th (at least not without you getting one as well) and should not be able to afford 40 mutas. Sounds like you made some pretty big mistakes to let that happen xD. You only play defensive until you get ultras out which isn't that long. Watch the video again on how I do it and look at my timings, if you just stay defensive whole game yeah you are going to lose to that kind of stuff xD
When I think of something else, something will go here
Prev 1 2 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 3h 37m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
JimRising 643
StarCraft: Brood War
GuemChi 6242
Horang2 637
Hyuk 636
Zeus 191
Pusan 117
Mind 83
910 76
Bale 12
Icarus 9
Last 0
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm199
Counter-Strike
Coldzera 1693
Stewie2K665
m0e_tv339
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King90
Other Games
summit1g9267
WinterStarcraft523
C9.Mang0483
Sick288
monkeys_forever225
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL18501
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 51
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH265
• practicex 51
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Lourlo1129
• Stunt384
Upcoming Events
RSL Revival
3h 37m
Classic vs Solar
herO vs SHIN
OSC
6h 37m
Big Brain Bouts
9h 37m
sebesdes vs Iba
Percival vs YoungYakov
Reynor vs GgMaChine
Korean StarCraft League
20h 37m
RSL Revival
1d 3h
Clem vs Rogue
Bunny vs Lambo
IPSL
1d 9h
Dewalt vs nOmaD
Ret vs Cross
BSL
1d 12h
Bonyth vs Doodle
Dewalt vs TerrOr
GSL
2 days
Cure vs herO
SHIN vs Maru
IPSL
2 days
Bonyth vs Napoleon
G5 vs JDConan
BSL
2 days
OyAji vs JDConan
DragOn vs TBD
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
3 days
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
The PondCast
4 days
GSL
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
GSL
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-05-13
WardiTV TLMC #16
Nations Cup 2026

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Acropolis #4
KK 2v2 League Season 1
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
Escore Tournament S2: W7
SCTL 2026 Spring
RSL Revival: Season 5
2026 GSL S1
Heroes Pulsing #1
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2

Upcoming

YSL S3
Escore Tournament S2: W8
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
WardiTV Spring 2026
2026 GSL S2
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.