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On July 11 2013 01:51 Enema wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2013 01:14 blade55555 wrote:On July 11 2013 00:40 Enema wrote:My actual question is weither you think swarmhost muta ling baneling works vs bio or not but let's leave that aside. I enjoy going for swarmhosts in ZvZ but i usually go there of roaches as I personally have trouble making the switch from Muta to swarmhosts. I usually just go muta -> roach. I will give it a try  Yeah it can work vs bio, but it is very map dependent and tbh it's very easy to mess up and lose swarmhosts vs bio so there is that as well. I do it vs bio on a map like akilon for example, but never on a map like whirlwind. Well isnt it also map dependend versus Zerg? Also how do you deal with Ling Baneling Ultra Infestor or just Ling Baneling Infestor. I ran into zergs who just blow up my locusts.
Not really because you don't need 4 base gas to tech and get ultras out pretty quickly. Thanks to mutalisks/ling/bane you are super mobile and can be defensive with it as well. I haven't found any weaknesses even on a map like whirlwind.
Also ling/bane/infestor I have never faced it because tbh that sounds terrible. The reason I am 99% sure this is an awful counter is because you should have ling/bane yourself and you should have mutalisks. Infestors don't deal with spread out mutalisks very well and if you are flanking with ling/bane and have a locust wave coming, I can not see a ling/bane/infestor army EVER killing that unless you only have 1 infestor and you were super behind all game.
For the ultra/ling/bane/infestor, I haven't faced that either because that's not a composition anyone ever goes. There are weaknesses to that to in that if I ever saw my opponent going mainly a ling/infestor composition (no roaches at all) I would be aggressive with swarmhost/muta/ling/bane.
I had an opponent try that to me a long time ago back when every zerg used to go double upgraded ling style and I never lost with a swarmhost push even when they made banelings. So I guess it could potentially work if you sit back and don't tech (remember you should be teching to ultra's as well).
Something I should have mentioned in the video is that if you are facing a roach composition you want to play defensive with swarmhosts while teching to hive, but if your opponent is going ling/infestor then you are to be aggressive. I didn't mention it because it has been a long, long time since I last played a zvz where my opponent went pure ling/infestor and never went roaches.
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If you go 15 pool do you build your hatchery at 15 16 17 or 18?
If you see one / two evo chambers and suspect mass upgraded lings how do you deviate your build?
Sorry for asking so many questions but I am really interested^^
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On July 11 2013 06:59 Enema wrote:
If you go 15 pool do you build your hatchery at 15 16 17 or 18?
If you see one / two evo chambers and suspect mass upgraded lings how do you deviate your build?
Sorry for asking so many questions but I am really interested^^
If I go 15 pool I go 15 pool 16 hatch.
Tbh I haven't faced a double upgraded ling style in a long, long time so I can't really comment other then what I think would work. I would get evo extra early and start +1 melee. This is so that lings get 1 shot by banelings. Would make more banelings then normal, and then go into mutalisks.
But as I said I haven't faced upgraded ling style in awhile, other then this video where he went +1 carapace lings, it's the first time I have seen an upgraded ling style in a long time it's really died off on the ladder.
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I've been doing this on 2v2s and I've always wondered if it would work in 1s. Seems like it does.
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Thanks for the guide, will definitely be trying this, I anticipate to great effect. Keep 'em coming!
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Blade, how do you deal with roach ling bane all in with this?
Should I add roaches of my own?
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Heya Blade, I've been watching your youtube videos on and off and I just want to say it's been a great help after coming back from a long hiatus. I'm crushing my ZvZ's with this build and the times I lose it's because I played suboptimally rather than the build being the problem. Thanks!
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On July 11 2013 22:42 faderedguy wrote:
Blade, how do you deal with roach ling bane all in with this?
Should I add roaches of my own?
Just like any other all in you should be making quiet a few spines. If you want you can add roaches, but I personally never do that.
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Glad to see this surfacing as a popular build, I've been doing it since release to players who didn't open muta (especially after the spore buffs). It's really good for holding those 2 and early 3 base timings and it allows you to easily get to hive. I personally recommend broodlords as a followup over the ultralisk. Ultralisk don't synergize very well with swarm hosts -the locusts really mess with their pathing due to their range and quantity and the upgrades aren't the same.
Broodlords means you can forgo the melee upgrade in favor of ranged to make your locust stronger, and you already have +1 air from the mutalisk. Banelings prevent him from running underneath you with hydras and they also kill infested terrans very quickly, so the only thing he can do to stop your broodlords is either to build a spire and wrest air superiority from you or just mass counter attack and try to abuse your mobility.
Once you have broodlords out you can split your swarm hosts into more defensive positions (2-3 per expansion) to prevent counter attacks and attack with the rest of your army.
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Blade for president! Sick good guide, you do a great job on the vods. I've been wondering about transitioning out of muta against non-muta players for a while now, and this looks like the way to go.
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On July 13 2013 02:04 Nasreth wrote:
Glad to see this surfacing as a popular build, I've been doing it since release to players who didn't open muta (especially after the spore buffs). It's really good for holding those 2 and early 3 base timings and it allows you to easily get to hive. I personally recommend broodlords as a followup over the ultralisk. Ultralisk don't synergize very well with swarm hosts -the locusts really mess with their pathing due to their range and quantity and the upgrades aren't the same.
Broodlords means you can forgo the melee upgrade in favor of ranged to make your locust stronger, and you already have +1 air from the mutalisk. Banelings prevent him from running underneath you with hydras and they also kill infested terrans very quickly, so the only thing he can do to stop your broodlords is either to build a spire and wrest air superiority from you or just mass counter attack and try to abuse your mobility.
Once you have broodlords out you can split your swarm hosts into more defensive positions (2-3 per expansion) to prevent counter attacks and attack with the rest of your army.
It's a stylistic choice. You can do either and be fine because ultras destroy a roach/bane army anyway. Also I prefer the ultralisks due to mobility and I have never been a big broodlord fan.
I also prefer getting melee upgrades over ranged because I am going ling/bane heavy with the swarmhosts and of course the transition.
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I tried this build.
I find it hard to play offensive with swarmhosts versus a player going for three hatch roach hydra.
I was defending well and once crushed his push he mad a remax on ~40 Mutas and just killed me.
I suppose I should play more aggressive 
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On July 19 2013 16:29 Enema wrote:I tried this build. I find it hard to play offensive with swarmhosts versus a player going for three hatch roach hydra. I was defending well and once crushed his push he mad a remax on ~40 Mutas and just killed me. I suppose I should play more aggressive
How turtley were you playing? o_O. If you do the build like I do he shouldn't get a 4'th (at least not without you getting one as well) and should not be able to afford 40 mutas. Sounds like you made some pretty big mistakes to let that happen xD. You only play defensive until you get ultras out which isn't that long. Watch the video again on how I do it and look at my timings, if you just stay defensive whole game yeah you are going to lose to that kind of stuff xD
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EPT
