• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 04:09
CET 10:09
KST 18:09
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info3herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational14SC2 All-Star Invitational: Tournament Preview5RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0
Community News
Weekly Cups (Jan 19-25): Bunny, Trigger, MaxPax win3Weekly Cups (Jan 12-18): herO, MaxPax, Solar win0BSL Season 2025 - Full Overview and Conclusion8Weekly Cups (Jan 5-11): Clem wins big offline, Trigger upsets4$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7)38
StarCraft 2
General
StarCraft 2 not at the Esports World Cup 2026 Weekly Cups (Jan 19-25): Bunny, Trigger, MaxPax win Oliveira Would Have Returned If EWC Continued herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational PhD study /w SC2 - help with a survey!
Tourneys
$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7) OSC Season 13 World Championship $70 Prize Pool Ladder Legends Academy Weekly Open! SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-18 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[A] Starcraft Sound Mod
External Content
Mutation # 510 Safety Violation Mutation # 509 Doomsday Report Mutation # 508 Violent Night Mutation # 507 Well Trained
Brood War
General
Bleak Future After Failed ProGaming Career BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ [ASL21] Potential Map Candidates Gypsy to Korea
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 Azhi's Colosseum - Season 2 [BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 10
Strategy
Zealot bombing is no longer popular? Current Meta Simple Questions, Simple Answers Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Mobile Legends: Bang Bang Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread YouTube Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club! The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How Esports Advertising Shap…
TrAiDoS
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1606 users

[G]ZvZ muta/ling/bane/swarmhost - Page 2

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 All
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
July 10 2013 17:44 GMT
#21
On July 11 2013 01:51 Enema wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 11 2013 01:14 blade55555 wrote:
On July 11 2013 00:40 Enema wrote:
My actual question is weither you think swarmhost muta ling baneling works vs bio or not but let's leave that aside.

I enjoy going for swarmhosts in ZvZ but i usually go there of roaches as I personally have trouble making the switch from Muta to swarmhosts. I usually just go muta -> roach. I will give it a try


Yeah it can work vs bio, but it is very map dependent and tbh it's very easy to mess up and lose swarmhosts vs bio so there is that as well. I do it vs bio on a map like akilon for example, but never on a map like whirlwind.

Well isnt it also map dependend versus Zerg? Also how do you deal with Ling Baneling Ultra Infestor or just Ling Baneling Infestor. I ran into zergs who just blow up my locusts.


Not really because you don't need 4 base gas to tech and get ultras out pretty quickly. Thanks to mutalisks/ling/bane you are super mobile and can be defensive with it as well. I haven't found any weaknesses even on a map like whirlwind.

Also ling/bane/infestor I have never faced it because tbh that sounds terrible. The reason I am 99% sure this is an awful counter is because you should have ling/bane yourself and you should have mutalisks. Infestors don't deal with spread out mutalisks very well and if you are flanking with ling/bane and have a locust wave coming, I can not see a ling/bane/infestor army EVER killing that unless you only have 1 infestor and you were super behind all game.

For the ultra/ling/bane/infestor, I haven't faced that either because that's not a composition anyone ever goes. There are weaknesses to that to in that if I ever saw my opponent going mainly a ling/infestor composition (no roaches at all) I would be aggressive with swarmhost/muta/ling/bane.

I had an opponent try that to me a long time ago back when every zerg used to go double upgraded ling style and I never lost with a swarmhost push even when they made banelings. So I guess it could potentially work if you sit back and don't tech (remember you should be teching to ultra's as well).

Something I should have mentioned in the video is that if you are facing a roach composition you want to play defensive with swarmhosts while teching to hive, but if your opponent is going ling/infestor then you are to be aggressive. I didn't mention it because it has been a long, long time since I last played a zvz where my opponent went pure ling/infestor and never went roaches.
When I think of something else, something will go here
Railgan
Profile Joined August 2010
Switzerland1507 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-10 22:00:05
July 10 2013 21:59 GMT
#22
If you go 15 pool do you build your hatchery at 15 16 17 or 18?

If you see one / two evo chambers and suspect mass upgraded lings how do you deviate your build?

Sorry for asking so many questions but I am really interested^^
Grandmaster Zerg from Switzerland!!! www.twitch.tv/railgan // www.twitter.com/railgansc // www.youtube.com/c/railgansc
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
July 10 2013 22:06 GMT
#23
On July 11 2013 06:59 Enema wrote:
If you go 15 pool do you build your hatchery at 15 16 17 or 18?

If you see one / two evo chambers and suspect mass upgraded lings how do you deviate your build?

Sorry for asking so many questions but I am really interested^^



If I go 15 pool I go 15 pool 16 hatch.

Tbh I haven't faced a double upgraded ling style in a long, long time so I can't really comment other then what I think would work. I would get evo extra early and start +1 melee. This is so that lings get 1 shot by banelings. Would make more banelings then normal, and then go into mutalisks.

But as I said I haven't faced upgraded ling style in awhile, other then this video where he went +1 carapace lings, it's the first time I have seen an upgraded ling style in a long time it's really died off on the ladder.
When I think of something else, something will go here
Phanekim
Profile Joined April 2003
United States777 Posts
July 10 2013 23:38 GMT
#24
I've been doing this on 2v2s and I've always wondered if it would work in 1s. Seems like it does.
i like cheese
F.O.A.D.
Profile Joined July 2013
Canada100 Posts
July 10 2013 23:53 GMT
#25
Thanks for the guide, will definitely be trying this, I anticipate to great effect. Keep 'em coming!
Reenock | Gumibro | Soulkey | sC | jjakji | Mvp | Innovation | Seed | Hurricane | Sniper | Dream | Maru
faderedguy
Profile Joined June 2013
Indonesia58 Posts
July 11 2013 13:42 GMT
#26
Blade, how do you deal with roach ling bane all in with this?
Should I add roaches of my own?
work hard to achieve victory, don't whine your way into it
StillRooney
Profile Joined April 2010
Sweden106 Posts
July 11 2013 15:04 GMT
#27
Heya Blade, I've been watching your youtube videos on and off and I just want to say it's been a great help after coming back from a long hiatus. I'm crushing my ZvZ's with this build and the times I lose it's because I played suboptimally rather than the build being the problem. Thanks!
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
July 11 2013 18:00 GMT
#28
On July 11 2013 22:42 faderedguy wrote:
Blade, how do you deal with roach ling bane all in with this?
Should I add roaches of my own?


Just like any other all in you should be making quiet a few spines. If you want you can add roaches, but I personally never do that.
When I think of something else, something will go here
Nasreth
Profile Joined October 2011
United States48 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-12 17:08:10
July 12 2013 17:04 GMT
#29
Glad to see this surfacing as a popular build, I've been doing it since release to players who didn't open muta (especially after the spore buffs). It's really good for holding those 2 and early 3 base timings and it allows you to easily get to hive. I personally recommend broodlords as a followup over the ultralisk. Ultralisk don't synergize very well with swarm hosts -the locusts really mess with their pathing due to their range and quantity and the upgrades aren't the same.

Broodlords means you can forgo the melee upgrade in favor of ranged to make your locust stronger, and you already have +1 air from the mutalisk. Banelings prevent him from running underneath you with hydras and they also kill infested terrans very quickly, so the only thing he can do to stop your broodlords is either to build a spire and wrest air superiority from you or just mass counter attack and try to abuse your mobility.

Once you have broodlords out you can split your swarm hosts into more defensive positions (2-3 per expansion) to prevent counter attacks and attack with the rest of your army.
Why do I play Zerg? Because Kerrigan.
Lobotomist
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1541 Posts
July 12 2013 18:26 GMT
#30
Blade for president! Sick good guide, you do a great job on the vods. I've been wondering about transitioning out of muta against non-muta players for a while now, and this looks like the way to go.
Teching to hive too quickly isn't just a risk: it's an ultrarisk
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
July 12 2013 18:30 GMT
#31
On July 13 2013 02:04 Nasreth wrote:
Glad to see this surfacing as a popular build, I've been doing it since release to players who didn't open muta (especially after the spore buffs). It's really good for holding those 2 and early 3 base timings and it allows you to easily get to hive. I personally recommend broodlords as a followup over the ultralisk. Ultralisk don't synergize very well with swarm hosts -the locusts really mess with their pathing due to their range and quantity and the upgrades aren't the same.

Broodlords means you can forgo the melee upgrade in favor of ranged to make your locust stronger, and you already have +1 air from the mutalisk. Banelings prevent him from running underneath you with hydras and they also kill infested terrans very quickly, so the only thing he can do to stop your broodlords is either to build a spire and wrest air superiority from you or just mass counter attack and try to abuse your mobility.

Once you have broodlords out you can split your swarm hosts into more defensive positions (2-3 per expansion) to prevent counter attacks and attack with the rest of your army.


It's a stylistic choice. You can do either and be fine because ultras destroy a roach/bane army anyway. Also I prefer the ultralisks due to mobility and I have never been a big broodlord fan.

I also prefer getting melee upgrades over ranged because I am going ling/bane heavy with the swarmhosts and of course the transition.
When I think of something else, something will go here
Railgan
Profile Joined August 2010
Switzerland1507 Posts
July 19 2013 07:29 GMT
#32
I tried this build.

I find it hard to play offensive with swarmhosts versus a player going for three hatch roach hydra.

I was defending well and once crushed his push he mad a remax on ~40 Mutas and just killed me.

I suppose I should play more aggressive
Grandmaster Zerg from Switzerland!!! www.twitch.tv/railgan // www.twitter.com/railgansc // www.youtube.com/c/railgansc
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
July 19 2013 07:35 GMT
#33
On July 19 2013 16:29 Enema wrote:
I tried this build.

I find it hard to play offensive with swarmhosts versus a player going for three hatch roach hydra.

I was defending well and once crushed his push he mad a remax on ~40 Mutas and just killed me.

I suppose I should play more aggressive


How turtley were you playing? o_O. If you do the build like I do he shouldn't get a 4'th (at least not without you getting one as well) and should not be able to afford 40 mutas. Sounds like you made some pretty big mistakes to let that happen xD. You only play defensive until you get ultras out which isn't that long. Watch the video again on how I do it and look at my timings, if you just stay defensive whole game yeah you are going to lose to that kind of stuff xD
When I think of something else, something will go here
Prev 1 2 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 51m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SortOf 216
BRAT_OK 69
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 3579
Jaedong 262
Hyun 262
Larva 208
Mong 202
ToSsGirL 89
Rush 78
910 76
Shuttle 68
Dewaltoss 58
[ Show more ]
Shinee 31
GoRush 27
Bale 19
Yoon 17
NotJumperer 13
Sharp 11
JulyZerg 5
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm105
Fuzer 83
League of Legends
C9.Mang0390
Counter-Strike
shoxiejesuss0
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor108
Other Games
Liquid`RaSZi803
WinterStarcraft594
JimRising 440
Happy357
Mew2King254
KnowMe174
Sick67
febbydoto14
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick857
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 3
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH140
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 2
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos914
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
51m
HomeStory Cup
1d 2h
Korean StarCraft League
1d 17h
HomeStory Cup
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
HomeStory Cup
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Wardi Open
5 days
WardiTV Invitational
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-01-27
OSC Championship Season 13
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Acropolis #4 - TS4
Rongyi Cup S3
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: W6
Escore Tournament S1: W7
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals
HSC XXVIII
Nations Cup 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.