EPTThis is just for fun. It's a hydra counter after exchanging units (and being down a base), with epic chat at the end. It ain't great but it's something for a giggle. I LOVE when players react like this.
Stardroid
Space
[G] Replacing Infestors with Hydralisks - Page 3
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Stardroid
United Kingdom159 Posts
This is just for fun. It's a hydra counter after exchanging units (and being down a base), with epic chat at the end. It ain't great but it's something for a giggle. I LOVE when players react like this. Stardroid Space | ||
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URO
Norway12 Posts
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bjornkavist
Canada1235 Posts
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eSuBuildings
United States71 Posts
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yakitate304
United States655 Posts
I almost always decimated their Hellion + Banshee harass and then got up on 4 bases while amping up the aggression and going to Muta/Bling/Ling with Hydra support. | ||
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Flonomenalz
Nigeria3519 Posts
On December 17 2012 18:06 NarAliya wrote: I don't think he is planning on maxing out on Zerg Missile attacks, just +1 I think. In WoL, a 200 army full of Hydras is terrible since if it gets killed it'll be too expensive to keep remaxing. I'd assume that after some Lair play, he starts to upgrade carapace. Mate, where in Nigeria do you live? | ||
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TheManInBlack
Nigeria266 Posts
When I'm in Nigeria I live in Magodo (Lagos). However I was born in England. What about you? | ||
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Defenestrator
400 Posts
I'm still not convinced that the hydras you use in the midgame are better for actual army engagements than say, pure ling/bane into fast ultra and then adding infestors later. Upgrades also synergize very well with this style. Have you tried that style combined with your solid mechanics? The main benefits of hydra in your style seem to be that they can snipe dropships/floating buildings and they are in general better vs drop play, but I'm not sure that's offset by their other drawbacks. | ||
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eSuBuildings
United States71 Posts
I've used all styles (against all compositions) from standard Melee T3 and Air T3 to mass Roaches, etc. Sure, there are other much better styles to use, but I feel that Hydras fill in the gaps that other styles have trouble fulfilling while still being good at killing your opponent. | ||
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Hossinaut
United States453 Posts
But unless the Terran is bad, or goes Marine/Tank, I don't understand where you're going to get more guaranteed damage onto his army. Banes can be focused by tanks, and hydras, as good as they are, are not good units to be fighting out on the map with in general; too slow in retreat, and too weak (squishy) to engage most armies. Counter-pushing is good, unless they've been macroing behind their push to begin with, hold a defensive position, or have done both, in which case you lose a lot of units for free. I feel like the queen play at the third is fun, but not optimal nevertheless. That feels like a lot of minerals and mining time gone just so you can creep the third, and you can't guarantee that your queen won't get attacked either on the way over or at the 3rd location itself. I do like the idea of starting creep near their base though, and I think I shall try that going forward, but I think that this extra queen pushing creep out from your base would be a better utilization of that energy if you're going to be wanting to be on the map with hydras. I would like to repeat what @Defenestrator is commenting on, and that it seems like you're simply emphasizing the importance of amazing creep spread. I see value in Hydras for defense and early-mid game having units that can actually shoot (as opposed to infestors), but I don't see them *gaining* value over time. Which is the primary issue. Zerglings are exceptionally fast and once you get adrenal w/ 3/3, they *tear* through stuff-even 3/3 marines; these aspects allow for significant variability in their utilization throughout the game. I feel like the investment (upgrades; delay of carapace or whatever/ tech structures/ etc.) into what will end up being a relatively small amount of hydras produced (compared to zerglings/banelings) is just not worthwhile in the longer scheme of the game. I guess that's a lot of text to say the simple concept that I do not believe that Hydras are cost efficient or cost effective unless you're using them for a specific, oriented purpose that is determined by reacting to the enemy, especially in ZvT. If you were to forward the idea that hydras work excellently as a way to defend a certain push in a certain matchup or something, that would be one thing. But I don't believe that's what you have done, nor what you intentioned. Personal note, unrelated to actual content: + Show Spoiler + On a personal note, I think the "I don't want to let my ladder secrets out" bit is kind of retarded. Honestly, you shouldn't be playing gimmicky, tricksy shit in order to get wins. Not relying on "secrets" to get wins. I respect that you are in masters, and that you are better than I, but I've had friends cheese into masters by using "tricks" and they couldn't play out an actual game properly; not saying that you are similar with this inability, just that we should be sticking to established norms and working to improve our mechanics, even in masters, because those will win more games. I value that you brought this up, and I think it could spark some interesting discussion around the idea of earlier hydras for defensive purposes in handling early-ish timings. I would be very much interested in seeing someone much more qualified than either of us either play it or comment on it before I say that it is good. I am completely willing to, please note. I think you're a ballsy dude for posting it, and I respect not only that, but also that you've found a way to play that is outside the norm and that you enjoy playing. I'm not going to lie, I've really been wanting to type something and haven't had anything to type recently, so I apologize for my long-windedness. It's an unfortunate quality of mine D: | ||
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eSuBuildings
United States71 Posts
This style isn't a one-trick pony. I've used it repeat on opponents before and have beaten them convincingly. Thank you for the input, though. | ||
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Hossinaut
United States453 Posts
I think when I have some practice I can do without worrying about worrying so much on making sure my mechanics are solid or defending a cheese, I'm going to have a poke both at this and at the drop style that Tang posted about the other day. Interesting content. I'd like to say again that I think it's really good to have people putting new content out there. | ||
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eSuBuildings
United States71 Posts
I see Ling/Hydra/Baneling (later into whatever late game tech of your choosing) is a style similar to Ling/Bane/Mutalisk. It's very skill oriented and relies a lot on mechanics such as creep spread micro to stay as effective as Ling/Infestor would be. Granted, I've only done this style for about a month (IMO, it's the only style of ZvT I play anymore, I'm that dedicated) but I feel like I can go far with it. And to counter your point on the Queen moving out and how it's a "wasted investment", you can always pull attention away with zerglings and keep him distracted. And one queen's creep spread is enough as long as you are consistent and on top of it at all times. So having a queen from his third and having a queen at your natural spreading creep makes for some sick stuff. It really isn't a mineral sink too, because let's be honest here. At this point you are on two fully saturated bases of drones mining minerals and you're Zerg. You'll be just fine. | ||
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Defenestrator
400 Posts
On December 19 2012 12:44 eSuBuildings wrote: And to counter your point on the Queen moving out and how it's a "wasted investment", you can always pull attention away with zerglings and keep him distracted. And one queen's creep spread is enough as long as you are consistent and on top of it at all times. So having a queen from his third and having a queen at your natural spreading creep makes for some sick stuff. It really isn't a mineral sink too, because let's be honest here. At this point you are on two fully saturated bases of drones mining minerals and you're Zerg. You'll be just fine. Yeah your queen investment is minimal; it's like a risk/reward thing where there's very little risk but very large reward. In a lot of your games he wastes at least 3 scans = 900 minerals on killing creep at the 3rd, and that's excluding lost mining time =P I also like how you gas-steal to take attention away from your queen moving cross-map. It's a pretty interesting style from watching the reps; I'll see if I can try it out, but I'm gonna really have to focus on my creep spread =P I am also of the opinion though that hydras are nowhere near as useless as everyone makes them out to be. | ||
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Stardroid
United Kingdom159 Posts
Stardroid Space P.S can I add to the chap who said you can't break seige lines with hydras: 1) you can, if it's not massive (i.e.. lategame) and you split your units to attack from two points 2) by the time a huge tank spread across natural/third and into the map might occur, you should be producing hive tech units (ultras are quicker and will deny a slow push if you're patient). 3) as a Zerg you never engage a seiged Terran, right? It's only something you do to end the game! | ||
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eSuBuildings
United States71 Posts
http://drop.sc/285950 - Cloud Kingdom - This shows the strength of on-point creep spread and how you only really need one queen per side to get good enough coverage. http://drop.sc/285952 - Entombed Valley - Close positions, so I roach all inned and transitioned into Hydralisks because why not? A few mistakes, like moving too far into his base with Hydras off creep, but oh well. It was a won game anyway because Zerg OP. | ||
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Stardroid
United Kingdom159 Posts
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DarkNecro
Australia1 Post
After taking a break for a while i came back with the plan of cutting back infestor use as much as possible in prep for HOTS. Only silver but having much success against terrans , especially with most terrans going hellion/banshee openings Posted some replays to show it at work . (needless to say not the best playing but getting there ) http://drop.sc/289221 http://drop.sc/289219 http://drop.sc/289217 http://drop.sc/289216 http://drop.sc/289218 - probably my favourite just because the rage at the end but he played pretty bad http://drop.sc/289220 -loss vs a platinum but had fun getting steam rolled once again thanks buildings for the suggestion and replays | ||
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Mahanaim
Korea (South)1002 Posts
More crazy styles from Zergs please | ||
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mothergoose729
United States666 Posts
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