EPT[G]Micromancers Post Patch TvZ! - Page 4
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Gray22
United States17 Posts
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Belial88
United States5217 Posts
On July 13 2012 02:23 ensign_lee wrote: Maybe because according to that very link you posted, he is nearly top 1000 North America? Why so judgmental? I like the creativity of your build OP. At the very least, it can be something tricky for your opponent to deal with. Because someone who is diamond saying "Hey I essentially use this type of play to beat pro-players" is extremely disingenuous. He's literally saying "Hey, I use this build to beat pros!" when it's simply not true. There's a HUGE difference from mid to high masters, and 587 points is nowhere near high masters. I played the OP but I just felt the build put him way too far behind after his failed marine stim all-in and late third. From there I just crushed his rine/tank pushes easily, and his constant nuking just made a game that ended at the 10 minute mark go on for 50 minutes. | ||
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MiThiK
Canada13 Posts
On July 14 2012 00:45 Belial88 wrote: Because someone who is diamond saying "Hey I essentially use this type of play to beat pro-players" is extremely disingenuous. He's literally saying "Hey, I use this build to beat pros!" when it's simply not true. There's a HUGE difference from mid to high masters, and 587 points is nowhere near high masters. I played the OP but I just felt the build put him way too far behind after his failed marine stim all-in and late third. From there I just crushed his rine/tank pushes easily, and his constant nuking just made a game that ended at the 10 minute mark go on for 50 minutes. The guy you were playing wasn't doing the build. The stim timing is much weaker than the combat shields and comes later as well. The combat shield push isn't even all-in as you have enough money to get a third cc as you push out! (~8-9 mins). You should turtle with the tanks after instead of pushing out with them as well! Second of all, MicroMancer's skill level doesn't make this build viable or non-viable. The build itself is what is important so we should be focusing on that instead of arguing his skill level. I think the build itself is very viable and provides good early game pressure with a easy transition into heavy bio style. | ||
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eXeZara
United States4 Posts
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VPCursed
1044 Posts
the late game tvz right now is very zerg favored.. It's a fact.. the brood/corrupter composition or the ultra composition are very hard for terran to deal with at certain timings.. so you need to be applying that pressure constantly.. try to be monotone with your aggression and most importantly work on your macro.. gm terran here ( 2 accounts in gm ).. i'm going to play around with this strat and i might post some of my reps.. its very good and i feel what i can do in return is offer you some advice on your play and strat : ) good hunting fellow terran | ||
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VPCursed
1044 Posts
On July 14 2012 04:50 VPCursed wrote: i like the opener, but your follow up and macro needs a'lot of work... you need to keep up the aggression instead of going full passive mode.. the best way to do that would be.. after your first push reaches optimum ( you're attacking the hatchery) you need to cut marines and go straight towards medivacs and start getting all your gas.. if the initial push is strong you should be-able to outright win the game with a medi push using bio.. or if things don't go well you will atleast have the option of putting pressure back into your opponent with medis instead of going full passive ..... even then when you're not doing this i noticed in your games that you play extremely passive without even attempting pressure to your opponent.. you're doing a'lot of damage early on and you should make sure they're expending gas on banes and infestors to delay their tech.. as well as hurting their 4th... the late game tvz right now is very zerg favored.. It's a fact.. the brood/corrupter composition or the ultra composition are very hard for terran to deal with at certain timings.. so you need to be applying that pressure constantly.. try to be monotone with your aggression and most importantly work on your macro.. gm terran here ( 2 accounts in gm ).. i'm going to play around with this strat and i might post some of my reps.. its very good and i feel what i can do in return is offer you some advice on your play and strat : ) good hunting fellow terran sry, just quoted my self editing... sigh | ||
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rogzardo
610 Posts
On July 14 2012 00:45 Belial88 wrote: Because someone who is diamond saying "Hey I essentially use this type of play to beat pro-players" is extremely disingenuous. He's literally saying "Hey, I use this build to beat pros!" when it's simply not true. There's a HUGE difference from mid to high masters, and 587 points is nowhere near high masters. I played the OP but I just felt the build put him way too far behind after his failed marine stim all-in and late third. From there I just crushed his rine/tank pushes easily, and his constant nuking just made a game that ended at the 10 minute mark go on for 50 minutes. This guy is a jerk. I have no opinion on the build, but I do think its funny that so many people are pissed that you call yourself high masters, as if there's any set standard. How dare you cheapen their ladder ranking boners by calling yourself high master with a mere 600 pts! | ||
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Belial88
United States5217 Posts
On July 14 2012 02:02 MiThiK wrote: The guy you were playing wasn't doing the build. The stim timing is much weaker than the combat shields and comes later as well. The combat shield push isn't even all-in as you have enough money to get a third cc as you push out! (~8-9 mins). You should turtle with the tanks after instead of pushing out with them as well! Second of all, MicroMancer's skill level doesn't make this build viable or non-viable. The build itself is what is important so we should be focusing on that instead of arguing his skill level. I think the build itself is very viable and provides good early game pressure with a easy transition into heavy bio style. No, you are right, the OP's skill level itself doesn't determine if the build is viable or not on it's own. I was just saying it's disingenous that the OP is basically claiming he uses this build with success against pro players, but in reality he has not played it against pro-level players. He's not high masters, he's low masters. And based on personal experience, yea, it does make a big impact actually. i've written quite a few guides myself where I was crushing face with them, but turned out it only worked so well because of the level I was playing at. I was the same level as the OP when I wrote my ling/infestor guide, for example, but it turns out that was a terrible strat. No, it's not COMPLETELY all-in to do a 2 base push before taking a third, but it's quite all-in. If you don't kill zerg's third, then there is just no way for you to win, and if you do kill zergs third (and that's all you kill), then it's arguable that you are still actually behind, depending on how it goes (ie if he eventually kills off your army and doesnt lose his drones, and replaces the third before you land yours). I don't think the build is good at all. Like I said, it's a semi- all-in build, even Tastosis commented that a Terran not taking a third before ~40 supply these days is somewhat all-inn. You don't really see pros do this type of play anymore, and for good reason. It may have been good pre-patch, but it just seems old fashioned now with zerg's being much hardier early game. Terran's need to get a third much quicker these days. Just my view on it. i played micromancer doing this build, I thought "wow thats really all-inish", I held pretty easily, and then in the mid to late game I just had a dominating economic lead and the only reason I didn't close the game in the first 10-15 minutes, even after completely destroying his army of rine/tank twice with ling/bane/muta, was because he just turtled and put PF's everywhere, and then started nuking everywhere. It was just kinda BM imo. | ||
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SidewinderSC2
United States236 Posts
On July 14 2012 04:58 rogzardo wrote:This guy is a jerk. I have no opinion on the build, but I do think its funny that so many people are pissed that you call yourself high masters, as if there's any set standard. How dare you cheapen their ladder ranking boners by calling yourself high master with a mere 600 pts! The difference in skill level between Low Masters and High Masters is actually enormous. 600 points is like rank 30-35, at best, in most divisions. There are plenty of builds that beat Low Masters players easily, but that High Masters players would overpower and make them look stupid. I'm not saying this is one of those builds, but people claiming they are High Masters when they are not around 1200+ points actually makes the build look at lot worse than it should. That's the only point Belial is making. | ||
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Micromancer
Canada116 Posts
On July 14 2012 04:50 VPCursed wrote: i like the opener, but your follow up and macro needs a'lot of work... you need to keep up the aggression instead of going full passive mode.. the best way to do that would be.. after your first push reaches optimum ( you're attacking the hatchery) you need to cut marines and go straight towards medivacs and start getting all your gas.. if the initial push is strong you should be-able to outright win the game with a medi push using bio.. or if things don't go well you will atleast have the option of putting pressure back into your opponent with medis instead of going full passive..... even then when you're not doing this i noticed in your games that you play extremely passive without even attempting pressure to your opponent.. you're doing a'lot of damage early on and you should make sure they're expending gas on banes and infestors to delay their tech.. as well as hurting their 4th... the late game tvz right now is very zerg favored.. It's a fact.. the brood/corrupter composition or the ultra composition are very hard for terran to deal with at certain timings.. so you need to be applying that pressure constantly.. try to be monotone with your aggression and most importantly work on your macro.. gm terran here ( 2 accounts in gm ).. i'm going to play around with this strat and i might post some of my reps.. its very good and i feel what i can do in return is offer you some advice on your play and strat : ) good hunting fellow terran Hey, thanks for the advice!, i know i need alot of work on my macro still, I hadn't thought about cutting marine production to get my tech up faster, I kinda felt obligated to use the racks once i had made them, but it makes alot of sense. and i think the low medivac count is kinda what leads to my passive follow up play. If you do play around with the strat would you please send me the replays? I would love to see how a gm makes it work, and I bet other people would to so i could post it in the OP. Thanks again! | ||
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Belial88
United States5217 Posts
On July 14 2012 04:58 rogzardo wrote: This guy is a jerk. I have no opinion on the build, but I do think its funny that so many people are pissed that you call yourself high masters, as if there's any set standard. How dare you cheapen their ladder ranking boners by calling yourself high master with a mere 600 pts! ... It's literally like a platinum saying he's high diamond. Or maybe gold saying they are diamond. High masters is where pros lurk - catz, painuser, etc. It'd be one thing if he said he was mid-masters and he was really low masters, but he's basically saying he plays a pro level when it's more accurate to say he plays around diamond level. Ladder is confusing, so whatever. I used to be the asshole that said he was high masters when I was top 8 at the time, turned out just my league was really, really low (as in 8th wouldn't even be top 50 in most leagues). A lot of GM's and high masters actually gave me a lot of shit for it. Now, I know better. I think high masters right now would be like 1,000 points? | ||
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Talack
Canada2742 Posts
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Belial88
United States5217 Posts
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FlawedLogic
1 Post
I dont see how it matters which level you play at or how strong/weak this strategy is, its more about optioins and choosing them or defending against them. I dont think there is any strategy for any race that is perfect, if there was then we would not be playing this game  | ||
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rogzardo
610 Posts
On July 14 2012 13:23 Belial88 wrote: ... It's literally like a platinum saying he's high diamond. Or maybe gold saying they are diamond. High masters is where pros lurk - catz, painuser, etc. It'd be one thing if he said he was mid-masters and he was really low masters, but he's basically saying he plays a pro level when it's more accurate to say he plays around diamond level. Ladder is confusing, so whatever. I used to be the asshole that said he was high masters when I was top 8 at the time, turned out just my league was really, really low (as in 8th wouldn't even be top 50 in most leagues). A lot of GM's and high masters actually gave me a lot of shit for it. Now, I know better. I think high masters right now would be like 1,000 points? My point was that it is hilarious that you actually care so much. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Micromancer
Canada116 Posts
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JDub
United States976 Posts
If nothing else, this game shows how amazing +0/+1 marines are against queens. Holy cow I thought your push would die off against goswser's shit ton of queens, but you just plowed right through. Looking through all the comments in this thread, it's amazing how many of them are focused only on your ladder rank. Now you actually have the proof that you have executed this against a professional player and won (quite handily) with it. I think it was the ideal map for reapers (close by air shakuras), but still, you beat an amazing player with it. Forget the haters! I'm going to give this build a try myself. | ||
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Keilkan
Denmark67 Posts
That said, vs a gasless Queen opening this build seems pretty ludicrus. Plowed through 30+ lings and 7 queens with like 30 marines or so total. Absolutely boss | ||
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