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Hello guys. You may know me from the "How to Dramatically Improve Handspeed" thread (which can be found at http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=232725 ), but it was not that good, because apparently CecilSunkure decided that
+ Show Spoiler +"This whole thing more just looks like a list of things you like to do since you think you have fast apm. aka you're just showing off.
It would be more helpful if you provided a means to increase handspeed in a game of sc2, and better yet how to convert that apm potential into meaningful actions. I didn't come here to plug, but honestly the thread I wrote on improving in general [I believe] is a much more effective means of becoming a balanced player, and being a balanced and skilled player includes playing quickly and utilizing high apm, rather than just spamming it with a few fingers. I can't stress enough the difference between spamming some keys mid-game and actually using those actions in a useful manner"
-CecilSunkure
So I've decided to create another thread, but this time showing you guys my special hotkey setup.
I don't suggest you copy my hotkey setup EXACTLY, but rather take concepts from it, so you can craft your own that fits you. In fact, don't change your hotkey setup if you're not comfortable doing so.
I crafted my hotkey setup with the following things in mind:
-I play Terran, so this setup is going to be designed towards that
-I play piano, so accuracy isn't an issue and grouping keys together in one spot isn't a problem
-I want my screenkeys easily accessible in conjunction with the shift key
-I don't want my hand to move...at all, so all 10 control groups and all function keys will be compressed into the left hand side of the keyboard
-I like Bravotango's "Base J" setup, so I'm going to incorporate elements from that into it
Now, here's a concept I want to introduce to you guys. It might not make that big of a difference, but it has for me at least.
"Double" Hotkeys (Or Alternate Hotkeys)
Did you know that for every single hotkey that you set, you can set an alternate? And if you hit both at the same time, it reads as 2 actions instead of 1?
What does this mean? It means you can train the same unit twice as fast. You see people repeatedly hitting the A key for Marines like 8 times, then they can hit 2 keys 4 times. This is the center of my hotkey setup.
So, without further ado, here is my hotkey setup.
Control Groups:
W = Command Centers
E = Barracks, Factories, Starports
R = A scout, or harassment, something I need to put a lot of attention on
Q = Something in the process of building (a third, a Ghost Academy, a Fusion core...) so that I can regularly check on it
Tab = Unused, maybe a few SCVs if I need to pull them in an energency
4,5,6 = Army
Alt = Armories & Engineering Bays
Caps Lock (Yes, I use caps lock) = A few SCVs to make Supply Depots
Idle Worker = `
Cycle Through = Spacebar
Screen Keys: Z, X, C, V, F1, F2, F3, F4
(Note that I do have different variations for other races, I'll post them below)
Terran Hotkeys:
Barracks:
+ Show Spoiler +D, F = Marine
S, G = Marauder
B = Reaper
A = Ghost
Factory:
+ Show Spoiler +F, D = Hellion
S, G = Siege Tank
A = Thor
Starport:
+ Show Spoiler +F, D = Viking
S, G = Medivac
A = Banshee
B = Raven
N = Battlecruiser
All Buildings:
+ Show Spoiler +1 = Liftoff
H = Set Rally Point
T = Tech Lab
Y = Reactor
B = Load
Command Center/Orbital:
+ Show Spoiler +F = SCV
D = Mule
S = Calldown Supply
A = Scan
T = Orbital
Y = Planetary
Universal:
+ Show Spoiler +2 = Hold Position
3 = Patrol
A = Attack
S = Stop
7 = Move (I don't think you're ever going to use move command...and if you do, well...)
SCV:
+ Show Spoiler +F = Build
D = Advanced
FF = Barracks
FD = Refinery
FS = CC
FA = Depot
FG = Ebay
F2 = Bunker (You don't hit the F1-4 keys, you hit the F key and then 2)
F3 = Turret
F1 = Sensor Tower
DF = Armory
DD = Ghost Academy
DS = Starport
DA = Factory
DG = Fusion Core
G = Repair
T = Gather
Y = Return Cargo
Everything Else:
+ Show Spoiler +F = Primary Action/Spell (Stim, 250mm Strike Cannon, Siege Mode, etc.)
D = Secondary Action (Tank mode, Viking Ground Mode, etc.)
T = Cloaking
Y = Decloak
And yeah...
So, why did I map the things out the way I did? Well, your hand is parked over ASDF.
Literally, to make a few SCVs, I just hit wff. My hand does not move at all.
Let's say I have 5 Barracks, 1 Reactor 4 Techlab. I then hit edfgsgs. (Note that D and F are hit at the same time using 2 fingers, same with S and G)
Then I double tap Caps Lock and build 2 depots.
Just something to think about ^_^
Literally, after I started using double hotkeys, production was twice as fast, and I had more time to do other things. Such as type, micro, etc...
So I said I would post my Protoss/Zerg variations. Well, here they are.
Double Hotkeys don't really benefit Zerg/Protoss as much as they do Terran, since with Terran the goal is to produce a certain amount of units relatively quickly, whereas with Protoss and Zerg it's mostly holding down a button.
So with Zerg, it's essentially the same.
With Protoss, Caps Lock is given the Warp Gate button, and H is given to a Probe that builds Pylons.
Configuration File
+ Show Spoiler +[Settings]
AllowSetConflicts=1
[Hotkeys]
Music=NumPad4
PTT=NumPad5
NamePanel=NumPad1
StatPanelUnitsLost=NumPad2
StatPanelAPM=NumPad3
ToggleWorldPanel=
AlertRecall=Backspace
ControlGroupAppend0=Shift+Tab
ControlGroupAppend1=Shift+W
ControlGroupAppend2=Shift+E
ControlGroupAppend3=Shift+R
ControlGroupAppend7=Shift+Alt
ControlGroupAppend8=Shift+CapsLock
ControlGroupAppend9=Shift+Q
ControlGroupAssign0=Control+Tab
ControlGroupAssign1=Control+W
ControlGroupAssign2=Control+E
ControlGroupAssign3=Control+R
ControlGroupAssign7=Control+Alt
ControlGroupAssign8=Control+CapsLock
ControlGroupAssign9=Control+Q
ControlGroupRecall0=Tab
ControlGroupRecall1=W
ControlGroupRecall2=E
ControlGroupRecall3=R
ControlGroupRecall7=Alt
ControlGroupRecall8=CapsLock
ControlGroupRecall9=Q
IdleWorker=Grave
InventoryButtonUse0=Control+NumPad1
InventoryButtonUse1=Control+NumPad2
InventoryButtonUse2=Control+NumPad3
InventoryButtonUse3=Control+NumPad4
InventoryButtonUse4=Control+NumPad5
InventoryButtonUse5=Control+NumPad6
QuickSave=NumPad6
StatusAll=
StatusOwner=
SubgroupNext=Space
SubgroupPrev=
TownCamera=J
WarpIn=P
CameraSave0=Control+Z
CameraSave1=Control+X
CameraSave2=Control+C
CameraSave3=Control+V
CameraSave4=F5
CameraSave5=F6
CameraSave6=F7
CameraSave7=F8
CameraView0=Z
CameraView1=X
CameraView2=C
CameraView3=V
CameraView4=F1
CameraView5=F2
CameraView6=F3
CameraView7=F4
[Commands]
250mmStrikeCannons/Thor=F
AWrp=G
ArchonHallucination/Sentry=1
Armory/SCV=F
Assimilator/Probe=D
AutoTurret/Raven=F
Baneling/Zergling=F
Baneling/Zergling2=F
BanelingNest/Drone=1
Banshee/Starport=A
Barracks/SCV=F
Battlecruiser/Starport=N
Blink/Stalker=F
BroodLord/Corruptor=D
BuildCreepTumor/Queen=D
BuildCreepTumor/Queen2=D
BuildCreepTumorPropagate/CreepTumorBurrowed=F
BuildTechLabFactory/FactoryFlying=T
BuildTechLabStarport/StarportFlying=T
Bunker/SCV=2
BunkerLoad=B
BurrowDown=1
BurrowUp=1
CalldownMULE/OrbitalCommand=D
Carrier/Stargate=A
Charge/Zealot=F
CloakOff=Y
CloakOnBanshee=T
Colossus/RoboticsFacility=D
ColossusHallucination/Sentry=N
CommandCenter/SCV=S
CommandCenterLoad=B
Contaminate/Overseer=F
CorruptionAbility/Corruptor=F
Corruptor/Larva=1
CyberneticsCore/Probe=3
DarkShrine/Probe=G
DarkTemplar=G
EMP/Ghost=F
EngineeringBay/SCV=G
EvolutionChamber/Drone=G
EvolveCentrificalHooks/BanelingNest=F
EvolveChitinousPlating/UltraliskCavern=F
EvolveGlialRegeneration/RoachWarren=F
EvolveInfestorEnergyUpgrade/InfestationPit=F
EvolveTunnelingClaws/RoachWarren=D
EvolveVentralSacks=3
Explode/Baneling=F
Explode/BanelingBurrowed=F
Explode/baneling=F
Explode/baneling2=F
Extractor/Drone=D
Factory/SCV=A
Feedback/HighTemplar=D
FighterMode=F
FleetBeacon/Probe=3
Forge/Probe=G
FusionCore/SCV=G
Gateway/Probe=F
GatherProt=T
Ghost/Barracks=A
GhostAcademy/SCV=D
GhostHoldFire/Ghost=Y
GravitonBeam/Phoenix=F
GreaterSpire/Spire=A
GuardianShield/Sentry=D
Hallucination/Sentry=G
Halt=B
Hatchery/Drone=S
Heal/Medivac=F
Heal/Medivac2=F
Hellion/Factory=F,D
HighTemplar=A
HighTemplarHallucination/Sentry=G
Hive/Lair=A
HunterSeekerMissile/Raven=G
Hydralisk/Larva=B
HydraliskDen/Drone=F
Immortal/RoboticsFacility=S
ImmortalHallucination/Sentry=A
InfestationPit/Drone=A
InfestedTerrans/Infestor=G
InfestedTerrans/Infestor2=G
InfestedTerrans/InfestorBurrowed=G
Infestor/Larva=3
Interceptor/Carrier=F
Lair/Hatchery=A
Land=1
Larva=F
Lift=1
Lower/SupplyDepot=F
Marauder/Barracks=S,G
Marine/Barracks=F,D
MassRecall/Mothership=F
Medivac/Starport=S,G
MissileTurret/SCV=3
MorphBackToGateway/WarpGate=2
MorphMorphalisk/Queen=F
MorphMorphalisk/Queen2=F
MorphToOverseer/Overlord=F
Mothership/Nexus=A
Move=BackSlash
MoveHoldPosition=2
MovePatrol=3
Mutalisk/Larva=2
NeuralParasite/Infestor=D
NeuralParasite/Infestor2=D
Nexus/Probe=S
NukeArm/GhostAcademy=G
NukeCalldown/Ghost=G
NydusNetwork/Drone=D
Observer/RoboticsFacility=F
OrbitalCommand/CommandCenter=T
Overlord/Larva=A
PhasingMode/WarpPrism=F
Phoenix/Stargate=F
PhoenixHallucination/Sentry=3
PhotonCannon/Probe=2
Probe/Nexus=F
ProbeHallucination/Sentry=F
ProtossAirArmorLevel1/CyberneticsCore=D
ProtossAirWeaponsLevel1/CyberneticsCore=F
ProtossBuild/Probe=F
ProtossBuildAdvanced/Probe=D
ProtossGroundWeaponsLevel1/Forge=F
PsiStorm/HighTemplar=F
Pylon/Probe=A
Queen=D
Raise/SupplyDepotLowered=F
Rally=H
Raven/Starport=B
Reactor/Barracks=Y
Reactor/BarracksFlying=Y
Reactor/Factory=Y
Reactor/FactoryFlying=Y
Reactor/Starport=Y
Reactor/StarportFlying=Y
Reaper/Barracks=B
ReaperSpeed/BarracksTechLab=A
Refinery/SCV=D
Repair=G
ResearchBansheeCloak/StarportTechLab=F
ResearchBattlecruiserEnergyUpgrade/FusionCore=D
ResearchBattlecruiserSpecializations/FusionCore=F
ResearchBurrow=1
ResearchCharge/TwilightCouncil=F
ResearchDurableMaterials/StarportTechLab=S
ResearchExtendedThermalLance/RoboticsBay=F
ResearchGhostEnergyUpgrade/GhostAcademy=D
ResearchGraviticBooster/RoboticsBay=A
ResearchGraviticDrive/RoboticsBay=D
ResearchHallucination/CyberneticsCore=S
ResearchHiSecAutoTracking/EngineeringBay=S
ResearchHighCapacityBarrels/FactoryTechLab=F
ResearchNeosteelFrame/EngineeringBay=G
ResearchNeuralParasite/InfestationPit=D
ResearchPersonalCloaking/GhostAcademy=F
ResearchPsiStorm/TemplarArchive=F
ResearchPunisherGrenades/BarracksTechLab=S
ResearchRavenEnergyUpgrade/StarportTechLab=G
ResearchSeekerMissile/StarportTechLab=D
ResearchShieldWall/BarracksTechLab=F
ResearchSiegeTech/FactoryTechLab=D
ResearchStalkerTeleport/TwilightCouncil=D
ResearchStrikeCannons/FactoryTechLab=A
ResearchWarpGate/CyberneticsCore=A
ReturnCargo=Y
Roach/Larva=G
RoachWarren/Drone=A
RoboticsBay/Probe=D
RoboticsFacility/Probe=F
SCV=F
Salvage/Bunker=G
SapStructure/Baneling=D
SapStructure/baneling=D
SapStructure/baneling2=D
Scan/OrbitalCommand=A
SelectBuilder=2
SensorTower/SCV=1
Sentry=S
SetBunkerRallyPoint/Bunker=H
SiegeMode=F
SiegeTank/Factory=S,G
Snipe/Ghost=D
SpawnChangeling/Overseer=D
SpawningPool/Drone=F
SpineCrawler/Drone=2
SpineCrawlerRoot/SpineCrawlerUprooted=F
SpineCrawlerUproot/SpineCrawler=F
SporeCrawler/Drone=3
SporeCrawlerRoot/SporeCrawlerUprooted=F
SporeCrawlerUproot/SporeCrawler=F
Stalker=D
Stim=F
Stimpack/BarracksTechLab=D
StopGenerateCreep/Overlord=1
StopPlanetaryFortress/PlanetaryFortress=S
SummonNydusWorm/NydusNetwork=F
SupplyDepot/SCV=A
SupplyDrop/OrbitalCommand=S
TechLabBarracks/Barracks=T
TechLabBarracks/BarracksFlying=T
TechLabFactory/Factory=T
TechLabStarport/Starport=T
TemplarArchive/Probe=2
TerranBuild/SCV=F
TerranBuildAdvanced/SCV=D
TerranInfantryArmorLevel1/EngineeringBay=D
TerranInfantryWeaponsLevel1/EngineeringBay=F
TerranShipPlatingLevel1/Armory=A
TerranVehiclePlatingLevel1/Armory=D
TerranVehicleWeaponsLevel1/Armory=F
Thor/Factory=A
TimeWarp/Nexus=D
Transfusion/Queen=G
Transfusion/Queen2=G
TransportMode/WarpPrism=F
TwilightCouncil/Probe=A
Ultralisk/Larva=N
UltraliskCavern/Drone=G
UpgradeBuildingArmorLevel1/EngineeringBay=A
UpgradeToPlanetaryFortress/CommandCenter=Y
UpgradeToWarpGate/Gateway=2
VikingFighter/Starport=F,D
VoidRay/Stargate=D
VoidRayHallucination/Sentry=2
Vortex/Mothership=D
WarpPrismHallucination/Sentry=B
WeaponsFree/Ghost=Y
YamatoGun=F
Zealot=F
ZealotHallucination/Sentry=D
ZergBuild/Drone=F
ZergBuildAdvanced/Drone=D
Zergling/Larva=S
overlordspeed=2
zergflyerarmor1=D
zergflyerattack1=F
zerggroundarmor1/EvolutionChamber=D
zerglingattackspeed/SpawningPool=D
zerglingmovementspeed/SpawningPool=F
zergmeleeweapons1/EvolutionChamber=F
Five Months Later
I have been playing with this setup for 5 months now. I regularly test out new setups, or try new things, but this is probably the most efficient I've gotten it to. I've tried left side of the keyboard, right side of the keyboard, using the freaking number pad (I actually got pretty fast, should I post that? It's actually a really good setup...if you're willing to get used to it > ), and everything, and this is my masterpiece.
I compare my own FPVODs to those of people I watch, and I spend a lot less time macroing than they do. In fact...sometimes I spam regularly because I actually have nothing to do.
There are a few things I would like to add though.
-I have begun using R and TAB in conjunction when I have 2 groups of harassment.
-The Q hotkey is extremely useful. Once you integrate it into tapping, your tech will never be delayed ever again...
-I rely on an innate timing sense to remember to tap alt for upgrades. What I used to do before this developed was to put Barracks, Engineering Bays, Factories, Armories, and Starports all in the same hotkey (you had to double tap between each, but you'd never forget upgrades...ever). You may wish to try this.
-As a Protoss, Chronoboosting Probes is ridiculously easy with the ZDclickXDclick combo. I'm quite content with it.
-As a Zerg, there is no real way to inject quickly with this setup. I currently just use the screenkeys to cycle between the bases.
-I have made one small correction; I moved Calldown Supply to G, and the alternate hotkey for SCV to S. So now, spamming sfsfsf makes me some SCVs...
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This just looks like something that you spend a lot of time on and get nothing out of it, AKA you're just showing off.
May i reccomend more time on the ladder and practicing rather than just Yabot.
Oh, and I'd also like to reccomend cecilsunkure's guide, that way you can effectively improve instead of just trying to play faster and not do anything with it.
User was temp banned for this post.
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Just out of curiosity, what league are you OP?
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On September 19 2011 09:34 garlicface wrote:
Just out of curiosity, what league are you OP?
Oh, I was Platinum when I wrote the Handspeed thread
I'm High Diamond now.
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On September 19 2011 09:35 XDJuicebox wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2011 09:34 garlicface wrote:
Just out of curiosity, what league are you OP? Oh, I was Platinum when I wrote the Handspeed thread I'm High Diamond now.
I think the time that you spent making a new hotkey system, plus writing up the articles for them on TL, could have been used to get you into masters.
User was warned for this post
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wait. I don't know alot about hotkey changing cuz mine are pretty close to standard but, what happens to spell effects that you've used the hotkey for a control group? i.e. snipe and r for a scout.
Edit, every response so far otherwise has been pretty douche baggy
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See what im saying, Juicebox? Just read Sunkure's guide it will be much faster
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On September 19 2011 09:37 kofman wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2011 09:35 XDJuicebox wrote:On September 19 2011 09:34 garlicface wrote:
Just out of curiosity, what league are you OP? Oh, I was Platinum when I wrote the Handspeed thread I'm High Diamond now. I think the time that you spent making a new hotkey system, plus writing up the articles for them on TL, could have been used to get you into masters.
Computer's been broken. Just trying to be productive while it was :/
On September 19 2011 09:38 SuPerFlyTNT wrote:
wait. I don't know alot about hotkey changing cuz mine are pretty close to standard but, what happens to spell effects that you've used the hotkey for a control group? i.e. snipe and r for a scout.
Snipe for me is mapped on D. I'll upload my hotkey configuration in a bit
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In that time youve been spending showing off you could have gotten a job
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I hope that HarryDresden and OP are friends, otherwise HarryDresden is a cunt and should be warned/banned. Just flaming. Now ban me for flaming him?
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On September 19 2011 09:41 SuPerFlyTNT wrote:
I hope that HarryDresden and OP are friends, otherwise HarryDresden is a cunt and should be warned/banned. Just flaming. Now ban me for flaming him?
Yeah, we're pretty good friends he's just being retarded lol
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Dude im just giving my advice >.>
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On September 19 2011 09:49 HarryDresden wrote:
Dude im just giving my advice >.>
Yeah but your advice is bad. You could do this instead of what you are doing. Maybe he likes trying to find an efficient hotkey setup. I could say that you wasted your time posting on this thread and should be laddering instead to get into X league. Just let people allocate their time the way they want to.
I think it is a cool idea to make alternate keys to make it faster (it also keeps your hand as a whole more active). Having everything on the left hand side of the keyboard is also nice and is more efficient use of your hand speed and energy. I won't be using this because I've already have my own habits, but it makes me think about changing some keys around.
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Thread is a time bomb......
Can't wait.
On topic though, I feel that altering hotkey setups will only do so much for a person....The fact that your hand doesn't move at all isn't making you better, it's just lazy in my eyes.
Pretty much, in my mind, if BW pro's can do it with such brilliance, why bother messing with the hotkeys at all?
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On September 19 2011 10:06 N3rV[Green] wrote:
Thread is a time bomb......
Can't wait.
On topic though, I feel that altering hotkey setups will only do so much for a person....The fact that your hand doesn't move at all isn't making you better, it's just lazy in my eyes.
Pretty much, in my mind, if BW pro's can do it with such brilliance, why bother messing with the hotkeys at all?
I played Brood War. And I was decently fast, I was like a ~250 APM Terran.
This is mainly because I'm very lazy, yes.
And the point of this was to just throw some ideas out there, and introduce the concept of Alternate Hotkeys ^_^
I just used my setup as an example
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well i think that being able to do something twice in one click would actually be helpful.
ie. being able build 2 marines by pressing down two the main and the alternate hotkey for build marine.
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On September 19 2011 10:10 chocolatebunny wrote:
well i think that being able to do something twice in one click would actually be helpful.
ie. being able build 2 marines by pressing down two the main and the alternate hotkey for build marine.
That's exactly what this is lol ^_^
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On September 19 2011 10:06 N3rV[Green] wrote:
Thread is a time bomb......
Can't wait.
On topic though, I feel that altering hotkey setups will only do so much for a person....The fact that your hand doesn't move at all isn't making you better, it's just lazy in my eyes.
Pretty much, in my mind, if BW pro's can do it with such brilliance, why bother messing with the hotkeys at all?
Have to disagree, Liquid`Tyler has also changed his keys to make more efficient use of his hands. Just think, instead of reaching with your fingers it allows you to switch between hotkeys and control groups faster. Lazy would be not using hotkeys because they are too far away from your fingers.
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On September 19 2011 10:01 Demonace34 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2011 09:49 HarryDresden wrote:
Dude im just giving my advice >.> Yeah but your advice is bad. You could do this instead of what you are doing. Maybe he likes trying to find an efficient hotkey setup. I could say that you wasted your time posting on this thread and should be laddering instead to get into X league. Just let people allocate their time the way they want to. I think it is a cool idea to make alternate keys to make it faster (it also keeps your hand as a whole more active). Having everything on the left hand side of the keyboard is also nice and is more efficient use of your hand speed and energy. I won't be using this because I've already have my own habits, but it makes me think about changing some keys around.
In that case Cecil Sunkure's advice is bad. Is his advice bad?
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Jesus so any flamers....wtf? You dont like it, dont post. Imma give the alternate hotkey a go, thanks.
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On September 19 2011 10:06 N3rV[Green] wrote:
Thread is a time bomb......
Can't wait.
On topic though, I feel that altering hotkey setups will only do so much for a person....The fact that your hand doesn't move at all isn't making you better, it's just lazy in my eyes.
Pretty much, in my mind, if BW pro's can do it with such brilliance, why bother messing with the hotkeys at all?
Also sorry for double post, but i had to reply to this gem of idiocy.
Hes making things easier. Your right that is just lazy. WHy use hotkeys at all for that matter. Just lazy, jesus use your mouse.
Also saying if a pro cant do it why cant you, well, there are no words for how retarded that is. Why cant you split marines like a GM? Pros can. Why cant you?
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On September 19 2011 10:29 HarryDresden wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2011 10:01 Demonace34 wrote:On September 19 2011 09:49 HarryDresden wrote:
Dude im just giving my advice >.> Yeah but your advice is bad. You could do this instead of what you are doing. Maybe he likes trying to find an efficient hotkey setup. I could say that you wasted your time posting on this thread and should be laddering instead to get into X league. Just let people allocate their time the way they want to. I think it is a cool idea to make alternate keys to make it faster (it also keeps your hand as a whole more active). Having everything on the left hand side of the keyboard is also nice and is more efficient use of your hand speed and energy. I won't be using this because I've already have my own habits, but it makes me think about changing some keys around. In that case Cecil Sunkure's advice is bad. Is his advice bad?
No I didn't talk about his advice. Cecil said that the OP's other thread was just showing off. This is a new thread about his more efficient hotkey setup. Read Cecil's quote again.
"This whole thing more just looks like a list of things you like to do since you think you have fast apm. aka you're just showing off.
It would be more helpful if you provided a means to increase handspeed in a game of sc2, and better yet how to convert that apm potential into meaningful actions. I didn't come here to plug, but honestly the thread I wrote on improving in general [I believe] is a much more effective means of becoming a balanced player, and being a balanced and skilled player includes playing quickly and utilizing high apm, rather than just spamming it with a few fingers. I can't stress enough the difference between spamming some keys mid-game and actually using those actions in a useful manner"
-Cecil Sunkure
The thread isn't about spamming keys, it is about using alternate keys along with a hotkey setup that is less tasking on how much you have to stretch to get to certain keys. This allows for better overall use of hotkeys and control groups throughout the game.
I do agree with Cecil, that the other thread about increasing hand speed was more about showing off that he had fast hands then actually learning how to put that to good use.
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I think you shouldn't be doing these innovative hotkeys till you hit masters.
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my only problem is with the twice the speed nonsense. When I build units the thing that takes longest is thinking about what unit to make not pressing the button. ie example:
now instead of pressing A twice to make a marine and take 0.1 seconds to do so, you can press A and F and take 0.1 seconds to do so
twice the speeEED!
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On September 19 2011 10:38 Demonace34 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2011 10:29 HarryDresden wrote:On September 19 2011 10:01 Demonace34 wrote:On September 19 2011 09:49 HarryDresden wrote:
Dude im just giving my advice >.> Yeah but your advice is bad. You could do this instead of what you are doing. Maybe he likes trying to find an efficient hotkey setup. I could say that you wasted your time posting on this thread and should be laddering instead to get into X league. Just let people allocate their time the way they want to. I think it is a cool idea to make alternate keys to make it faster (it also keeps your hand as a whole more active). Having everything on the left hand side of the keyboard is also nice and is more efficient use of your hand speed and energy. I won't be using this because I've already have my own habits, but it makes me think about changing some keys around. In that case Cecil Sunkure's advice is bad. Is his advice bad? No I didn't talk about his advice. Cecil said that the OP's other thread was just showing off. This is a new thread about his more efficient hotkey setup. Read Cecil's quote again. "This whole thing more just looks like a list of things you like to do since you think you have fast apm. aka you're just showing off. It would be more helpful if you provided a means to increase handspeed in a game of sc2, and better yet how to convert that apm potential into meaningful actions. I didn't come here to plug, but honestly the thread I wrote on improving in general [I believe] is a much more effective means of becoming a balanced player, and being a balanced and skilled player includes playing quickly and utilizing high apm, rather than just spamming it with a few fingers. I can't stress enough the difference between spamming some keys mid-game and actually using those actions in a useful manner" -Cecil Sunkure The thread isn't about spamming keys, it is about using alternate keys along with a hotkey setup that is less tasking on how much you have to stretch to get to certain keys. This allows for better overall use of hotkeys and control groups throughout the game. I do agree with Cecil, that the other thread about increasing hand speed was more about showing off that he had fast hands then actually learning how to put that to good use.
The reason I wrote that thread was because I saw that one of my friends had retardedly slow fingers, so I converted some of my piano drills into drills for the keyboard. That was about it lol.
Well, I can't play since my computer is broken. And I was on a car ride when I came up with the hotkey setup. It took a grand total of 1 hour to get used to it.
And you shouldn't ever have to think about what unit to make...
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As a terran I like it. The pros say it takes a month to learn a new hotkey setup and if I could find the courage to suck for a month I would try this out.
I have the standard setup but maybe I could bind marines to both a and a+mouse button 4 and alternative clicking between them.
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I like the idea in concept. As zerg, I do something similar, and although I can't contribute to your terran version, a few notes on my own hotkey setup:
I have every useful unit function bound to one (or more) of the following keys:
QWERTY GH B
- I feel like this is only possible with Zerg because this race has the fewest buildings, abilities, and units of the three races.
I have camera hotkeys bound to the following keys:
A S D F* Z X C V (space)
- Because I feel like camera hotkeys are in general more useful for zerg than any other race, I set up my keys with that in mind. F stores my current location, and spacebar recalls it after I've checked my camera keys. So, instead of using a "tap" method to check production, etc. I use a "camera rolling" method where I can quickly scan all important areas of the map without losing control of the unit(s) I'm microing. (FDSA VCXZ space rolls very nicely too for me).
And then for hotkeys I use ~, 1 to 7, and rarely 8 or 9 (also f3, f4).
(sorry for the lack of contribution to your own post. These threads seem to just devolve into people sharing their own custom hotkey setups and it's difficult to do more than offer general rules in my opinion, which you have done in the OP.)
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Hey OP, whos that friend?
Oh, and, Demonace, Cecil DID suggest that you ignore those drills and just read his guide, pretty close to what i did.
Same kind of advice.
Wether its good or not is a matter of opinion. I thought it was great advice so i posted, sorry if i seemed stern. Op just seems a little slow in my eyes
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On September 19 2011 11:10 HarryDresden wrote:
Hey OP, whos that friend?
Oh, and, Demonace, Cecil DID suggest that you ignore those drills and just read his guide, pretty close to what i did.
Same kind of advice.
Wether its good or not is a matter of opinion. I thought it was great advice so i posted, sorry if i seemed stern. Op just seems a little slow in my eyes
Smh
Dude can you like go somewhere else?
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On September 19 2011 09:27 XDJuicebox wrote:
-I like Bravotango's "Base J" setup, so I'm going to incorporate elements from that into it
Hey, thanks for the reference to the Base J setup I put together. I had been contemplating posting an update, as I've made some changes, and IMO made it even better. Not to mention, I have it setup for all 3 races, since I've been playing random for fun. It's even more condensed than before, which is crazy.
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On September 19 2011 09:37 kofman wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2011 09:35 XDJuicebox wrote:On September 19 2011 09:34 garlicface wrote:
Just out of curiosity, what league are you OP? Oh, I was Platinum when I wrote the Handspeed thread I'm High Diamond now. I think the time that you spent making a new hotkey system, plus writing up the articles for them on TL, could have been used to get you into masters.
Why you gotta be a dick? seriously hes trying to contribute to the community and this is what you say? Seriously some people
Nice write up thanks!
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The idea is nice and unique, but it won't bring any drastic changes to someone's skill level and the time spent for most people to learn an entire different hotkey scheme won't be worth it. And to me personally even as a piano player, there's a negligible difference in hitting one button 8 times and 2 buttons 4 times. With that being said, there is no harm to doing this just like how there is no difference in the people who use grid and the people who use standard.
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I definitely agree with the concept of keeping all your hotkeys on the left side of the board (assuming one is right handed). I moved all the clunky upgrade hotkeys so that for each building they lie along the A S D F row (as zerg). Saying it is "lazy" to move hotkeys to more efficient spots is like saying it is lazy to click on the minimap, you should just scroll there instead. Anything that can improve efficiency without sacrificing anything should definitely be incorporated into ones play.
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On September 19 2011 11:53 DreamChaser wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2011 09:37 kofman wrote:On September 19 2011 09:35 XDJuicebox wrote:On September 19 2011 09:34 garlicface wrote:
Just out of curiosity, what league are you OP? Oh, I was Platinum when I wrote the Handspeed thread I'm High Diamond now. I think the time that you spent making a new hotkey system, plus writing up the articles for them on TL, could have been used to get you into masters. Why you gotta be a dick? seriously hes trying to contribute to the community and this is what you say? Seriously some people Nice write up thanks!
Yeah, I agree. This post was one that I was going to respond to, but neglected. I think if you can find a great hotkey and control group setup early on, then it will get you to master's faster. Pretty silly to do it the other way around.
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On September 19 2011 11:49 Kaitlin wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2011 09:27 XDJuicebox wrote:
-I like Bravotango's "Base J" setup, so I'm going to incorporate elements from that into it
Hey, thanks for the reference to the Base J setup I put together. I had been contemplating posting an update, as I've made some changes, and IMO made it even better. Not to mention, I have it setup for all 3 races, since I've been playing random for fun. It's even more condensed than before, which is crazy.
Lol no problem
You changed my life ^_^
You should update it :D
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Interesting... I guess. I just think it is highly confusing, and wouldn't yield dividends in terms of speed and/or efficiency, considering the amount of time it takes to learn. That's just my opinion though - I feel "fancy" things, like people who buy advanced light-up keyboards or shiny headphones are making an excuse to try and get more skilled, instead of just doing what you need to do, which is play the game the way it's made.
Also, unless I am mistaken, *most* tournaments / LANs do not allow remapping of hotkeys (default hotkeys used; atleast that is how GSL is). So I find this useless if you want to become competitive, which is the only setting in which "hand speed" would matter (as in, more than Battle.net).
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Wow, why complain if someone is just sharing with the community what works for them?
It makes complete sense that if your bunching up your hotkeys in one area it "might" increase your apm futher increasing the size of the picture you can draw in-game.
Those who are saying it's "lazy," I think it's far from lazy considering I myself cbf to learn a whole new set of hotkeys. Why? because I'M LAZY!.. lol.
However, I've only "just" started utilising every hotkey.... there is no way in hell I would change that all now. It would be like starting over again lol. But I guess it could be more beneficial in the long run. hmmmmmm.
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On September 19 2011 12:15 gulati wrote:
Interesting... I guess. I just think it is highly confusing, and wouldn't yield dividends in terms of speed and/or efficiency, considering the amount of time it takes to learn. That's just my opinion though - I feel "fancy" things, like people who buy advanced light-up keyboards or shiny headphones are making an excuse to try and get more skilled, instead of just doing what you need to do, which is play the game the way it's made.
Also, unless I am mistaken, *most* tournaments / LANs do not allow remapping of hotkeys (default hotkeys used; atleast that is how GSL is). So I find this useless if you want to become competitive, which is the only setting in which "hand speed" would matter (as in, more than Battle.net).
Well, the person who played at YellOw's computer at the Code A qualifiers used a different hotkey setup...so YellOw was confused...
And my friend used an altered hotkey setup at MLG.
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I like it. Not enough people are active with mapping their hotkeys. The best way to use hotkeys is to contrive a good system and then stick to it until its reflex. You need to ingrain good and efficient habits before they set.
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Interesting ideas and a well written guide. Thanks for posting.
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These alternate hotkeys seem really useful. I play terran too AND i play piano too and the concept of not moving my hand sounds sexy sooo yeah thanks your awesome
Ps sorry everyone on the first page is being stupid and claiming your work is pointless when its actually really useful
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Interesting idea! Unfortunately, I'm too set in my hotkey setup or I would've given this a try.
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People who are flaming this are way too narrow minded. Both of XDJuiceBox's posts have been pretty brilliant, yet few people are smart enough to understand the genius and purpose behind them. They're all for your mechanics.
His other guide was to improve your handspeed. Maybe a clearer title would've been how to improve your keyboard-based mechanics. Other than spending 8-10 hours a day playing SC2, how do you appropriately improve your mechanics? Even if you've been typing for decades, you'll be spending most of your time with your left hand hovering over the numbers instead of the ASDF home keys, so the standard concept of muscle memory gets thrown out the door because the key distance will be from the number keys and not from the home keys unless you want to lose efficiency by going up to the number keys then back down to another key. Then he talks about drilling in key sequences which is what really SC is all about. If you watch how pros play first person and wonder how they put in commands or do things so fast that you often don't even see some of the actions, a lot of it is because their key sequencing memory is top notch. They know that to build an SCV with a OC hotkeyed on 5 would be nothing more than 5s, then they move on to the next action like selecting an SCV to build a depot [BS]. So they quickly go 5s while moving the camera, box some SCVs, press BS while moving the mouse to an open location to build a depot, then click. TLO I feel can do this in a second or a second and a half. Every macro action in SC is nothing more than a sequence of 2-4 actions. Pros can do these sequences in a second or less each as well as switching between actions almost immediately, leaving no lag time between actions, allowing them to perform a lot of actions in a small amount of time because their ability to do the little things are as perfect as it gets and they do it with nothing more than the thought of getting the action done as "build supply depot", not "I need to build a supply depot, grab an SCV, b, s". Once you're good at the muscle memory for these small sequences to the point you don't even need to think about them, managing your money, refining your build, and thinking about strategy and timings all becomes so much easier because you're playing quicker and more efficiently. I'm currently trying to switch my hotkey (1-0) setup and it's really fucking with me because I used to have 3 Barracks 4 Factory/Starport (whichever was more important) 5-0 individual CCs. I would easily go though all the mini actions like 5s6s7s pretty quickly, 5b3a (make first OC and first Marine), but now that it's changed, I'm simply not used to it and the muscle memory is all screwed up because all the macro sequences I've had are totally different now in which keys to use and the relation of distance from my "home keys" to the keys themselves (basically losing all keyboard awareness). So practicing the little key sequences is far more important than people realize. Even before you play a serious game, it's good to warm up these little sequences in a custom game by yourself.
Then for this guide, it's sheer brilliance. Like he said, ALL his hotkeys are designed with the design of being centered around the standard typing home keys. As a result, a normal typist can easily transition to playing SC2 at a pretty high speed (at least with his keyboard) instead of having to relearn his keyboard from the number keys setup. Mechanically, everything becomes significantly easier because you ALREADY have most of the muscle memory built in to type from the ASDF keys. Not only that, instead of going from up to down AND to the sides, you simple go either up or down which most people experienced with a keyboard are more than capable of doing.
Are these hotkeys complicated as hell? You bet your ass they are. I'm still dizzy looking at the control group setup. But it still a great idea. And the added bonus of double hotkeys does speed up production from a Terran perspective quite a bit. Destiny does something similar (spamming something like zdzdzdzdzdzdzdzdzdzdzdzdzdzdzdzdzdzd or zfzfzfzfzfzfzfzfzfzf or dfdfdfdfdfdfdfdfddfdfdfdfdfdfdfdf) in order to evenly split production between Zerglings, Drones, and/or Infestors. It's a hell of a lot faster and easier than looking at your larvae count, cutting the number in half off the top of your head, spamming 1 key until you're hit they halfway mark, then spamming the other until you run out of Larvae.
Is it going to ever become mainstream? I highly doubt it. With a lot of players not changing their hotkeys or even using them to begin with, this becomes pretty pointless since they basically won't use their keyboard anyway. Even among pros, they make relatively minor changes to their setup, or use Broodwar, SC2, or Grid preset settings. A minority of pros might switch to something like this if they catch on early enough and are willing to spend the time to relearn their hotkeys (like Liquid'Tyler). Also with traditionalists preferring to avoid changes or sticking with Broodwar setups or the standard settings will probably denounce this as outright heresy.
A lot of good ideas will usually be picked out to be bad due to wanting to stay traditional and calling new ideas relatively gimmicky. To be honest, I dislike the backspace inject trick because of a few flaws I find it, the fact that I feel it might not be a fully mechanically sound way to inject, and it's not traditional. However, I would be beyond retarded to ever try and dispute the fact that it's the fastest way by far to Inject your Hatcheries.
And I can be like a lot of you flamers and simply say "if only the guy who spent his time figuring out the backspace inject trick and its variants (before they got removed) just spent more time PLAYING the game instead of figuring out these stupid little gimmicks he'd be masters or grandmasters right now." Seriously who the fuck cares?! They spent a bit of free time screwing around and giving to the community. What have you assholes done for the community? I'm sure some of you have made small contributions but a majority of you probably do nothing but shoot down good ideas because you can't accept them or are jealous that you didn't think of it yourselves.
JuiceBox, great posts! Keep it up! Now if you improved your mouse control, you could be master's.  But who cares. Keep enjoying the game bro! ^^
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On September 19 2011 13:35 RyLai wrote:People who are flaming this are way too narrow minded. Both of XDJuiceBox's posts have been pretty brilliant, yet few people are smart enough to understand the genius and purpose behind them. They're all for your mechanics. His other guide was to improve your handspeed. Maybe a clearer title would've been how to improve your keyboard-based mechanics. Other than spending 8-10 hours a day playing SC2, how do you appropriately improve your mechanics? Even if you've been typing for decades, you'll be spending most of your time with your left hand hovering over the numbers instead of the ASDF home keys, so the standard concept of muscle memory gets thrown out the door because the key distance will be from the number keys and not from the home keys unless you want to lose efficiency by going up to the number keys then back down to another key. Then he talks about drilling in key sequences which is what really SC is all about. If you watch how pros play first person and wonder how they put in commands or do things so fast that you often don't even see some of the actions, a lot of it is because their key sequencing memory is top notch. They know that to build an SCV with a OC hotkeyed on 5 would be nothing more than 5s, then they move on to the next action like selecting an SCV to build a depot [BS]. So they quickly go 5s while moving the camera, box some SCVs, press BS while moving the mouse to an open location to build a depot, then click. TLO I feel can do this in a second or a second and a half. Every macro action in SC is nothing more than a sequence of 2-4 actions. Pros can do these sequences in a second or less each as well as switching between actions almost immediately, leaving no lag time between actions, allowing them to perform a lot of actions in a small amount of time because their ability to do the little things are as perfect as it gets and they do it with nothing more than the thought of getting the action done as "build supply depot", not "I need to build a supply depot, grab an SCV, b, s". Once you're good at the muscle memory for these small sequences to the point you don't even need to think about them, managing your money, refining your build, and thinking about strategy and timings all becomes so much easier because you're playing quicker and more efficiently. I'm currently trying to switch my hotkey (1-0) setup and it's really fucking with me because I used to have 3 Barracks 4 Factory/Starport (whichever was more important) 5-0 individual CCs. I would easily go though all the mini actions like 5s6s7s pretty quickly, 5b3a (make first OC and first Marine), but now that it's changed, I'm simply not used to it and the muscle memory is all screwed up because all the macro sequences I've had are totally different now in which keys to use and the relation of distance from my "home keys" to the keys themselves (basically losing all keyboard awareness). So practicing the little key sequences is far more important than people realize. Even before you play a serious game, it's good to warm up these little sequences in a custom game by yourself. Then for this guide, it's sheer brilliance. Like he said, ALL his hotkeys are designed with the design of being centered around the standard typing home keys. As a result, a normal typist can easily transition to playing SC2 at a pretty high speed (at least with his keyboard) instead of having to relearn his keyboard from the number keys setup. Mechanically, everything becomes significantly easier because you ALREADY have most of the muscle memory built in to type from the ASDF keys. Not only that, instead of going from up to down AND to the sides, you simple go either up or down which most people experienced with a keyboard are more than capable of doing. Are these hotkeys complicated as hell? You bet your ass they are. I'm still dizzy looking at the control group setup. But it still a great idea. And the added bonus of double hotkeys does speed up production from a Terran perspective quite a bit. Destiny does something similar (spamming something like zdzdzdzdzdzdzdzdzdzdzdzdzdzdzdzdzdzd or zfzfzfzfzfzfzfzfzfzf or dfdfdfdfdfdfdfdfddfdfdfdfdfdfdfdf) in order to evenly split production between Zerglings, Drones, and/or Infestors. It's a hell of a lot faster and easier than looking at your larvae count, cutting the number in half off the top of your head, spamming 1 key until you're hit they halfway mark, then spamming the other until you run out of Larvae. Is it going to ever become mainstream? I highly doubt it. With a lot of players not changing their hotkeys or even using them to begin with, this becomes pretty pointless since they basically won't use their keyboard anyway. Even among pros, they make relatively minor changes to their setup, or use Broodwar, SC2, or Grid preset settings. A minority of pros might switch to something like this if they catch on early enough and are willing to spend the time to relearn their hotkeys (like Liquid'Tyler). Also with traditionalists preferring to avoid changes or sticking with Broodwar setups or the standard settings will probably denounce this as outright heresy. A lot of good ideas will usually be picked out to be bad due to wanting to stay traditional and calling new ideas relatively gimmicky. To be honest, I dislike the backspace inject trick because of a few flaws I find it, the fact that I feel it might not be a fully mechanically sound way to inject, and it's not traditional. However, I would be beyond retarded to ever try and dispute the fact that it's the fastest way by far to Inject your Hatcheries. And I can be like a lot of you flamers and simply say "if only the guy who spent his time figuring out the backspace inject trick and its variants (before they got removed) just spent more time PLAYING the game instead of figuring out these stupid little gimmicks he'd be masters or grandmasters right now." Seriously who the fuck cares?! They spent a bit of free time screwing around and giving to the community. What have you assholes done for the community? I'm sure some of you have made small contributions but a majority of you probably do nothing but shoot down good ideas because you can't accept them or are jealous that you didn't think of it yourselves. JuiceBox, great posts! Keep it up! Now if you improved your mouse control, you could be master's. But who cares. Keep enjoying the game bro! ^^
<3 Thanks man :D
Means a lot to me
Especially with all the flamers haha
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Yah...I don't get all the flamers. It does seem excessive imo, same with your last thread, but if it works it works. If you don't like it, then don't use it. Pretty simple...
Kudos for trying to share what works for you with the community. It's an interesting concept; I'll probably stick to traditional hotkeys, but it sounds like you put a lot of time into thinking this idea through.
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On September 19 2011 12:11 XDJuicebox wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2011 11:49 Kaitlin wrote:On September 19 2011 09:27 XDJuicebox wrote:
-I like Bravotango's "Base J" setup, so I'm going to incorporate elements from that into it
Hey, thanks for the reference to the Base J setup I put together. I had been contemplating posting an update, as I've made some changes, and IMO made it even better. Not to mention, I have it setup for all 3 races, since I've been playing random for fun. It's even more condensed than before, which is crazy. Lol no problem You changed my life ^_^ You should update it :D
In that case, I think I will. Look for something forthcoming soon...
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On September 19 2011 10:38 Demonace34 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2011 10:29 HarryDresden wrote:On September 19 2011 10:01 Demonace34 wrote:On September 19 2011 09:49 HarryDresden wrote:
Dude im just giving my advice >.> Yeah but your advice is bad. You could do this instead of what you are doing. Maybe he likes trying to find an efficient hotkey setup. I could say that you wasted your time posting on this thread and should be laddering instead to get into X league. Just let people allocate their time the way they want to. I think it is a cool idea to make alternate keys to make it faster (it also keeps your hand as a whole more active). Having everything on the left hand side of the keyboard is also nice and is more efficient use of your hand speed and energy. I won't be using this because I've already have my own habits, but it makes me think about changing some keys around. In that case Cecil Sunkure's advice is bad. Is his advice bad? No I didn't talk about his advice. Cecil said that the OP's other thread was just showing off. This is a new thread about his more efficient hotkey setup. Read Cecil's quote again. "This whole thing more just looks like a list of things you like to do since you think you have fast apm. aka you're just showing off. It would be more helpful if you provided a means to increase handspeed in a game of sc2, and better yet how to convert that apm potential into meaningful actions. I didn't come here to plug, but honestly the thread I wrote on improving in general [I believe] is a much more effective means of becoming a balanced player, and being a balanced and skilled player includes playing quickly and utilizing high apm, rather than just spamming it with a few fingers. I can't stress enough the difference between spamming some keys mid-game and actually using those actions in a useful manner" -Cecil Sunkure The thread isn't about spamming keys, it is about using alternate keys along with a hotkey setup that is less tasking on how much you have to stretch to get to certain keys. This allows for better overall use of hotkeys and control groups throughout the game. I do agree with Cecil, that the other thread about increasing hand speed was more about showing off that he had fast hands then actually learning how to put that to good use.
Wow... This is exactly what I mean about people trying to be traditional and work on the game for hundreds of thousands of games before they can get things to fall into place.
Even sports have sports specific workouts in the gym. Tennis for example has footwork drills in order to help coordination of your feet, foot speed, foot activity, and so on. You can simply argue that play thousands of matches and hit billions of balls and you'll have footwork that's just as good. For some people, you could be right. For most, you'd be severely wrong. There's absolutely nothing wrong for someone to take time off the court to specifically work on their footwork. That's basically what XDJuiceBox's post was about. It's about spending time off the ladder in order to practice your mechanics, your macro sequences, which is essentially the "footwork" of SC.
If you look at Cecil's post, he talks NOTHING about keyboard-based mechanics aside from the fact that he does 1a2a3a using his 3 main fingers (non-pinky) for 123 and his thumb for A (which I find severely uncomfortable). In SC:BW, pros had specific ways to hit the keys with specific fingers in order to improve efficiency, which lead to specific hotkey setups. The 90 Nexus setup (Nexus on 9 and 0) was a result of the hotkey for Probes (P) being so far off to the side that 9p0p was so much easier than anything else really. At the same time, they do 3d4d or something for Dragoons. But some players like Tyler advocated just having the Nexus on 3 and 4 then using the mouse to click on the Probe instead, arguing that if you cycled through 3 and 4, you didn't have to move your mouse anyway and just click twice. JuiceBox might not know it, but the stuff he's talking bout is directly related to mechanics, very high level mechanics that very few people think about. One reason Sean Day[9] Plott talks about mouse-based mechanics so often is because he himself is significantly less confident in his mouse control than his keyboard control (he has stated this himself). His keyboard control is pretty darn good, probably a result of Sean and his brother Nick Tasteless Plot constantly bouncing these ideas off of each other and looking up and learning mechanic tricks growing up as they got better at Starcraft. There's a video of Nick showing someone how he makes Dragoons and positioning the guys fingers.
You can press the buttons with whatever you feel is most comfortable, but sometimes learning something a little different makes a small difference in increasing the speed by which you do something, which drastically increases your overall efficiency throughout the entire game the more you use it. But the bottom line, you want to be pressing buttons in the proper sequences as quickly as you can to free up time to either do other sequences or other actions. Like if it takes you 3-5 seconds to build something because you are new and are either clicking buttons or looking for the hotkeys, that's time that could've been spent making that building, giving a move command to a scout, producing more units and workers, moving your army, and run though that cycle yet again. Some people might think 3-5 seconds is an exaggeration, but it's not. If you're new to the game (and likely RTS in general), you take 3-5 real life seconds in order to issue a simple macro sequence (like [BS] for build supply depot). And that's EXCLUDING the inherent lag time that most intermediate and lower level players have where they're basically doing nothing but look at the action they just did or spamming the exact same action. A very experienced player with top level mechanics does that sequence in literally maybe half a second (I'm guessing real time, but game time could also be possible for some of the faster players). And a very experienced player has 0 lag time. So quick that watching them from a first person point of view you might not even see some of the actions that they did (because a mid level player will do the action, have a half a second to a full second of lag, then move on to the next action; which is a half a second to a full second during which you can see the action that they just made).
If you practice pressing buttons in macro sequences as quickly as you can without effort, your mechanics WILL be faster (I won't say better because I feel the most difficult thing to remove is the lag time between actions, and that could be more important than anything else and is associated with how quickly you can think of a sequence of actions you need to do and thinking ahead of what you're actually doing; in other words, following a very strict build order or having a very good and refined mental checklist). Putting all of this together allows macro to become something in the back of your mind and just HAPPENS in your fingers, freeing up a lot of time in order to micro your units.
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Using well thought out and intuitive hotkeys to improve the amount of attention you can spend on other things in the game is one of the best things you can do to improve your mechanics at ANY level. This thread gets an A+ from me!
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I do agree that this is just some interesting setup he got from playing and there's nothing wrong with sharing it however I would ask the OP and the community in general, does anyone uses the GRID layout ?? I'm a zerg player and I use that layout since the beginning and have only changed the base camera hotkey to caps lock to help with my injections but for everything else I feel it helps me visualize better what I want to do, the travel distance is short and also helps if I want to play a different race, mind you I didn't play BW so I have no memory of SC hotkeys from before and I'm also not a good player but what do you guys think ? Anyone comfortable with the GRID layout ?
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On September 19 2011 20:55 madestro wrote:
I do agree that this is just some interesting setup he got from playing and there's nothing wrong with sharing it however I would ask the OP and the community in general, does anyone uses the GRID layout ?? I'm a zerg player and I use that layout since the beginning and have only changed the base camera hotkey to caps lock to help with my injections but for everything else I feel it helps me visualize better what I want to do, the travel distance is short and also helps if I want to play a different race, mind you I didn't play BW so I have no memory of SC hotkeys from before and I'm also not a good player but what do you guys think ? Anyone comfortable with the GRID layout ?
I use a modified Grid layout (I've got groups bound to h, n and a mouse button and a location hotkey on space) and like it a lot, but it's really just a matter of what you're used to more than anything. I got used to grid layout because I played with it in WC3, but I think that very few of us are at a level of skill where focusing on keyboard mechanics is going to have as great an impact on our game as more basic skills like constant production, keeping money low, and having good unit positioning. I'm diamond, and I know for a fact that there are such massive flaws in my gameplay that the idea of spending the time learning a new keyboard layout that would help me shave an extra quarter second off of the time it takes me to perform some action is just not very well invested.
That being said, I think this sort of idea is very, very good and would be beneficial to a player of a much higher skill level whose play is such that that fraction of a second would make a significant difference. I don't understand the urge of so many people to flame innovative keyboard layout ideas - it's obviously an area where some optimization is possible and beneficial at the highest levels of play, and since TL is a community focused on elite play, I'd think this sort of idea would be welcome here.
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Sounds nightmarish to get used to , other than that I think this is a good concept... just, like I said, it is so insanely different from the usual setup that it's gonna take a lot of time before this would be worth it in any way.
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I feel like instead of remapping your entire hotkey setup and then getting used to it, you could just...use the default ones and be faster? Like your barracks example really isn't any faster than 5aadddd. How much time in-game did you really save and was it worth it in the long run? Maybe once you get used to it, but how many custom games does it take to get used to a remapped setup like this? The GRID and custom hotkey setup features seem like a great tool but I really have a hard time deviating from the default. It seems narrow- minded but I have a hard time changing my hotkey setup unless I see something significantly faster like Mr. Bitter's inject method for example.
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On September 19 2011 22:26 BossPlaya wrote:
I feel like instead of remapping your entire hotkey setup and then getting used to it, you could just...use the default ones and be faster? Like your barracks example really isn't any faster than 5aadddd. How much time in-game did you really save and was it worth it in the long run? Maybe once you get used to it, but how many custom games does it take to get used to a remapped setup like this? The GRID and custom hotkey setup features seem like a great tool but I really have a hard time deviating from the default. It seems narrow- minded but I have a hard time changing my hotkey setup unless I see something significantly faster like Mr. Bitter's inject method for example.
If you read closely, it says "some people shouldn't even change their setup if they're not comfortable with it"
And the idea of double hotkeys is instead of hitting aadddd which requires 6 taps, you hit 2 keys a total of 3 times.
And I switch on and off with this seeing as I still play Brood War once in a while. It takes about 10 minutes to switch for me.
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For everyone saying: "Spend your time laddering" or "Default is good enough"...
At both MLGs I made it to, I simply spent a lot of time watching foreign/korean hands as they play the game. For example, I spent a goodly amount of time watching Moon who has massive massive apm/handspeed. Many many times per minute, he had to move his hand from one side of the keyboard to the other. Each time it took a fraction of a second delaying whatever action he was reaching for for x milliseconds.
From that I concluded that even the fastest players that use grid/standard could speed up their play concentrating their hotkeys to one side of the keyboard.
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Why do people hate this? The concept behind this is fantastic. Having played cello, I'm much faster using two fingers than tapping with a single finger, just from years of tremolo practice. Especially since I'm only in Silver, I usually either have to sacrifice my macro or my micro because I can't keep up with my fingers. Just cycling through production buildings prior to an engagement takes me too long to micro effectively, so using this technique will definitely be useful for me. And I'm certain this how progamers get their insance APM--you're faster with two fingers than one.
The only problem with this I see is that it'll take you a longer-than normal time to get used to this--keeping all the regular hotkeys in mind in addition to the alternate hotkeys means I'm going to make some stupid units in a lot of games before getting the hang of it.
Great post about an underused feature! Screw the flamers
*edit* quick question: I'm trying to understand why your hotkeys for production buildings are (s,g), and (d,f), instead of, maybe, (s,d) and (f,g) (see: Barracks, Factory). Is it because you want a strong finger on both units instead of both strong fingers on a single unit?
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Thanks for the idea. However i'm going to use the keys right below the hotkeys.
4aqaqaqaqaqaqaqaqaqaqaqaq gogo marines!
Incredibly useful when you are at 5+ reactored barracks :D
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Russian Federation4295 Posts
Isn't it better to hold hotkey and it will repeat with fastest speed?
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I see many posters discussing the specific larvae injection method using backspace. Focusing on the concepts that are also in this thread, I remapped my "Center on base" hotkey to the key left of '1' (It's ½ in my language, I'm sure it's different in other keyboard layouts). So I have my Queens on 5, hit V, hold shift and then ½ click ½ click ½ click. It's MUCH faster than moving your entire hand to the backspace area which is like the other end of the keyboard.
Basically what I'm also saying here is that OP's example might be a bit extreme. But there are slight nudges and tweaks you can do to speed up your gameplay if you are willing to think about it for a little bit.
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I really like the fact that playing piano had an influence on the creation of this setup, from a pianists perspective the setup makes perfect sense. I can see it improving handspeed to a degree but not more or less than just practicing what you already use. Ultimately your choice in hotkeys is what you are comfortable with, don't bash on this setup just because its different and at least give it a try if before you start being critical.
I would love to give this a try but I can hardly find time to play the game let alone completely relearn the hotkeys. i'll keep it bookmarked, maybe someday.
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great post, helped bump up my apm 30 lol.. makes me wish i had a 6th finger on my left hand to go even faster 
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Thanks for the thread, OP. It helped me realize that I can have 2 keybinds for "Infested Marine" spam. I find it safer to do it this way than shift+clicking.
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Pretty interesting. Maybe if I get into grandmasters I can worry about this kind of stuff. Few weeks ago I changed my attack from A to space and lost like 50 games. But im used to it now !
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On September 20 2011 03:50 Existor wrote:
Isn't it better to hold hotkey and it will repeat with fastest speed?
And then go back and cancel if you queue up too many units/overmake a certain type of unit? True, you want speed, but precision is more important than speed every time.
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I have been playing stringed instruments for the past ten years. I am also very very much into anything that has to do with manual dexterity and small finger movements.
At the limits of manual dexterity it is much faster to flutter or tremolo two fingers than it is to move just one. For example: even if pressing r didn't do anything it would be faster to press "ererer" then "eee". If you factor in that pressing "r" in this situation would actually do something as well then it's a nobrainer pressing "ere" is at least twice as fast as pressing "eee". From a purely physical perspective not doing this would be sub-optimal in my opinion.
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yea this was something i got lazy around but wanted to do. The first thing i noticed was the backspace inject method and i reconfigured it to soemthing i like better. this definetly does show the power of custom hotkeys and the benefits it can bring. one may argue this just makes sc2 easier blablabla. regardless everyone (pros) will reach the same level of mechanics and this just tweaks it to ur flavour and make it more down to strategy/execution
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Thanks for all of the love everyone
Hope you all learned something from this ^_^
Btw, as Zerg, I simply use my screenkeys to check if I need to inject or not.
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Thanks, I'm using this setup now.
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On September 21 2011 12:30 Broskeezie wrote:
Thanks, I'm using this setup now.
You're welcome! :D
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What do you use 1,2, & 3 for?
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On September 21 2011 15:07 Techno wrote:
What do you use 1,2, & 3 for?
They're function keys. 2 is Hold Position, 3 is Patrol, 1 is a miscellaneous action (Hold Fire, Liftoff, etc.)
It's in one of the spoilers somewhere
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I'm pretty used to the hotkeys now, and I have to say that they're definitely worth switching to. I'm macroing much better now, I just have to get used to using spells more fluidly (like scanning up a ramp, EMPing with ghosts, then stimming and attacking).
I'd been using double-hotkeys for making marines for a while now (A and S), but this is really nice. Thanks!
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Hm, these double hotkeys work for ghost's snipe as well?
could be pretty useful there.
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United Arab Emirates16 Posts
As i play random, these kind of hotkeys is purely impossible!!
I just use the same hot keys blizzard with no further modification except for screen views where i utilize the F1 to F4 with the shift key..
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There is a lot of allegedly constructive flaming going on. Keyboard layout is clearly important, coming from a guitarist who shreds several hours a day the standard layout and spreading of group hotkeys from 1->0 leads to some really nasty hand stretches. If you can configure your way out of it you have reduced a source of tension.
Musicians learn to play things that sound hard but are actually exceptionally easy to play once you break it down sufficiently and out of context.
'I really think you should of spent the time writing this playing the game as then you would be better' is just a hack to get around admins to say 'L2P Noob'
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I use standard hotkeys, those are enough for me...
I just remapped a few so that I am aware of where they are and what they do, like screen hotkeys to f2-f5 as well as upgrades (melee, ranged, and carapace) to a,s,d respectively, just to make life faster... theres a few just little things like the, but I've kept the vast majority of the hotkeys standard. My friend uses grid, but I didn't like it when I was trying it out.
Such an alteration of the hotkeys doesn't seem to be truly beneficial as it can't adapt very well, and your hands get used to odd setups. I like the use of the alternate hotkey for each action, but beyond that, it seems pointless to fix what isn't broken... idk it just seems like you could also hurt your hand because it doesn't seem a very natural setup, like grid/standard is (more, anyway)... idk though
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On September 21 2011 23:04 Hossinaut wrote:
I use standard hotkeys, those are enough for me...
I just remapped a few so that I am aware of where they are and what they do, like screen hotkeys to f2-f5 as well as upgrades (melee, ranged, and carapace) to a,s,d respectively, just to make life faster... theres a few just little things like the, but I've kept the vast majority of the hotkeys standard. My friend uses grid, but I didn't like it when I was trying it out.
Such an alteration of the hotkeys doesn't seem to be truly beneficial as it can't adapt very well, and your hands get used to odd setups. I like the use of the alternate hotkey for each action, but beyond that, it seems pointless to fix what isn't broken... idk it just seems like you could also hurt your hand because it doesn't seem a very natural setup, like grid/standard is (more, anyway)... idk though
Well..I type a lot, so I basically just moved everything my left hand hits when I type.
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Sounds very efficient, now I can put the missing keys back in my keyboard. Gf will appreciate that. : )
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OMG so much hate on TL as always.
I've always used my own hotkeys, and I've always seen ways to improve configuration.
For example I'm using ALT+1-0 to create groups. I don't like your configuration, but if it's working for you I see nothing bad in it. Mine is working well for me.
I use R for most of my skills
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Dude, thsi is a beast guide. Very well thought out, good write up and all the other juicy compliments. Just make sure if you play me you dont use those hotkeys, :D. i see your high diamond so if you wanna play soemtime im up for it. Im high diamodn toss, XelnagaCUByo 299. For a while i was playing masters, bu tthen i went on losing streak sooooooo...... good job on the post keep up the good work!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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On September 22 2011 01:15 entrust wrote:OMG so much hate on TL as always. I've always used my own hotkeys, and I've always seen ways to improve configuration. For example I'm using ALT+1-0 to create groups. I don't like your configuration, but if it's working for you I see nothing bad in it. Mine is working well for me. I use R for most of my skills
Lol yeah, the stacking feels very nice for me.
The point of this thread was double hotkeys though...did you find that interesting? :D
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EPT
