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On April 17 2011 09:29 Kambing wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2011 09:18 Trevoc wrote:
Is the following a glitch:
A Zerg's natural has 7 eggs in production, a protoss surrounds the eggs with forcefields. The eggs sit at 100% completion for the duration of the forcefield (as these eggs cannot hatch without space to do so), then hatch when the forcefield vanishes. It's confirmed behavior, but it is most likely is not a bug (in the sense that it will be fixed). The same behavior occurs in other situations where there is not room for a unit to either spawn or drop at a location such as when you doom drop on a single point.
That's a pretty big handicap to have though, wouldn't you say?
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On April 17 2011 09:30 Trevoc wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2011 09:29 Kambing wrote:On April 17 2011 09:18 Trevoc wrote:
Is the following a glitch:
A Zerg's natural has 7 eggs in production, a protoss surrounds the eggs with forcefields. The eggs sit at 100% completion for the duration of the forcefield (as these eggs cannot hatch without space to do so), then hatch when the forcefield vanishes. It's confirmed behavior, but it is most likely is not a bug (in the sense that it will be fixed). The same behavior occurs in other situations where there is not room for a unit to either spawn or drop at a location such as when you doom drop on a single point. That's a pretty big handicap to have though, wouldn't you say?
In practice it is rarely a problem. Protoss has to burn quite a bit of ffs to completely surround eggs (which could be better spent splitting armies and cutting off ramps). Also, in at least one way the current scenario is more desirable for zerg since the alternative is having the units pop out of the eggs and immediately be surrounded and picked off by the protoss army. In the case of doom drops, it is another reason why you should move drop your units rather than click drop them.
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What do you do after scouting baneling nest + ovie speed (aka: bane drop) after doing a 3gate expand?
Thanks in advance
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On April 17 2011 10:11 Fede wrote:
What do you do after scouting baneling nest + ovie speed (aka: bane drop) after doing a 3gate expand?
Thanks in advance
I don't think this is necessarily a simple question since the community is still learning how to deal with baneling drop play in pvz. I wouldn't be surprised to see a separate post in the strategy forum about this in the near future. You can hear the state of the art from incontrol during this coaching session (which I linked previously):
http://www.justin.tv/incontroltv/b/283139706
http://www.justin.tv/incontroltv/b/283143216
One particular thing I recommend is placing stalkers around your mineral lines (coupled with watching your minimap like a hawk) to deter multi-prong baneling drops. If you place your stalkers out of the mineral line but near it, banelings will prioritize them over workers and explode on them instead if the zerg isn't microing them properly (which is actually sort of hard to do since they banelings are pooped out one at a time).
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Thank you very much, gonna watch those vods.
Yeah maybe should've created thread, thought there was some simple anwser, not the case unfortunately =(
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I am trying to watch nasl but the "loading ad" screen wont go away. It says if the problem persists turn off ad blocker which I did and no luck  Help appreciated!
EDIT: Crud I cant watch any streams! omg I dont know why this is happening :[
P.S. I use Chrome. I tried using streams on Opera and it works! Whats wrong with my Chrome? :\
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I seem to have trouble. My basic build is 10 pool. 12 lair. 13 roach warren 15 hatchery 16 hydra den.
Against protoss 17 hive 20 ultralisk cavern and against terran early corrupt/lord combo and on zerg roach hydra. Is it wrong?
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guys what unit composition should i use to kill a protoss colossus/blink stalker ball as zerg?
Last game I did roach, infestor, broodlord, corruptor but it got melted anyway. more ultras?
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Is there any solid PvZ build that is aggressive pressure into expand? I'm not looking for all-ins and I need something that works at least at mid masters level.
In PvT I use the Alicia 3-gate pressure into expand build and it works wonders for me. In PvP I like the adel scott 2-gate pressure into expo build. In PvZ I try and do the standard 3-gate sentry expand or forge expand builds but they seem so passive and I always get rolled by roach/hydra (yes I know I suck and PvZ is supposed to be easy).
I think the passive builds "defend to 200/200 and then roll him with a death ball" strategies just don't fit my style at all.
Over my last 200 games, I am 64% win PvP, 57% PvT and 36% PvZ so I am desperate to try something new.
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On April 17 2011 12:58 eunheeseung wrote:
I seem to have trouble. My basic build is 10 pool. 12 lair. 13 roach warren 15 hatchery 16 hydra den.
Against protoss 17 hive 20 ultralisk cavern and against terran early corrupt/lord combo and on zerg roach hydra. Is it wrong?
Are you saying you 1 base to hive with only 17 drones? Perhaps I am misunderstanding but it sounds like you are really really far off from executing anything close to a reasonable build.
You need to build wayyyy more drones, you'd want 50-80 before hive. I'd just search the forums for some of the standard zerg build orders or find any pro game and copy the build you see their as a start.
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On April 17 2011 17:35 tarath wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2011 12:58 eunheeseung wrote:
I seem to have trouble. My basic build is 10 pool. 12 lair. 13 roach warren 15 hatchery 16 hydra den.
Against protoss 17 hive 20 ultralisk cavern and against terran early corrupt/lord combo and on zerg roach hydra. Is it wrong? Are you saying you 1 base to hive with only 17 drones? Perhaps I am misunderstanding but it sounds like you are really really far off from executing anything close to a reasonable build. You need to build wayyyy more drones, you'd want 50-80 before hive. I'd just search the forums for some of the standard zerg build orders or find any pro game and copy the build you see their as a start.
Wow, that's a really bad build order.. Also, you need an infestors pit for hive.
You should learn more about tech paths!
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On April 17 2011 17:23 tarath wrote:
Is there any solid PvZ build that is aggressive pressure into expand? I'm not looking for all-ins and I need something that works at least at mid masters level.
In PvT I use the Alicia 3-gate pressure into expand build and it works wonders for me. In PvP I like the adel scott 2-gate pressure into expo build. In PvZ I try and do the standard 3-gate sentry expand or forge expand builds but they seem so passive and I always get rolled by roach/hydra (yes I know I suck and PvZ is supposed to be easy).
I think the passive builds "defend to 200/200 and then roll him with a death ball" strategies just don't fit my style at all.
Over my last 200 games, I am 64% win PvP, 57% PvT and 36% PvZ so I am desperate to try something new.
3gate expo attack and 4 gate into expo are common options for what you can do. Some people also go 3 gate robo or stargate, and move out with immo or VR to deal with spines. It's not like you'll get a guaranteed win from those builds though, you obviously just want to do some pressure.
Really overall, I'd say you can do almost anything for pressure while expanding, just need to be realistic (lots of zealots and/or sentry/stalker) and apply the pressure while building up economy, which shouldn't be too much of an issue because of the fact that zerg has a very hard time doing that.
The other zerg weakness is scouting the opponent. If you get 2 gas (don't even need to mind from both really), and 3-4 gates, even if they scout, they can't tell wtf protoss will be doing. Protoss could fake expand and all-in rush, or they can just do a sentry heavy expand, a quick robo for obs/colo, or other tech rush (stargate/DT).
I don't know if it suits your style enough, but you can do something like DT rush occasionally. works quite well for expanding right after.
A build I used to see a bit more often that was annoying to me, but really seemed to somehow die off (which I think was unjustified) was a 2gate zealot opener that transitions to 4 gate zealot stalker, and/or just expand, sorta like how terran does 2 rax pressure vs zerg. Zerg can deal with that by building many many zerglings, but that puts zerg so economically behind without being able to counter the protoss with any zerglings that remain after winning fights. It's also hard to deal with zealot-stalker (or even a few probes) at the start when zerglings don't have speed. Even with speed, the zealot count can mass into a big amount at which point you need more than 4 lings per zealot which just starts making things even more impractical.
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On April 17 2011 16:34 ayadew wrote:guys what unit composition should i use to kill a protoss colossus/blink stalker ball as zerg? Last game I did roach, infestor, broodlord, corruptor but it got melted anyway. more ultras?
For realistic armies, that's par for the course. You can expect any first engagement vs. protoss to be a win for the protoss unless you catch them in a bad position/they miss their forcefields/something otherwise goes bad for them. You win the either with superior macro so that you can force the engagement before they hit critical mass, or you win the next engagement with your superior reinforcements (which means you macroed your little heart out during the first battle).
So in short, don't expect even trades vs. a fully built-up deathball. As far as particular units go, if you're able to get roach/infestor/brood/corr up, you should actually fare pretty well provided your infestor micro is spot on to limit the stalkers blinking forward into your brood line (the ones that make it forward should be intercepted by your roaches anyways). Ultralisks can help but in practice it is difficult to the critical number where they can chew through the army before being brought down by stalker fire themselves. It is also unadvisable to try to reinforce with ultralisks unless you force the protoss back because they take almost as long as a colossus to build. Baneling cloud drops also work well on the ball provided you're able to catch them clumped up with a flank.
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Q: When I'm trying to make a control group with multiple units, is the only way for me to get the right unit skill priority, as in, if I have Stalkers, Zealots, and Sentries, and I want to be able to use FF and GS, is the only way for me to be able to use those skills by selecting the sentries first, or box selecting?
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On April 18 2011 00:05 Tallbus wrote:
Q: When I'm trying to make a control group with multiple units, is the only way for me to get the right unit skill priority, as in, if I have Stalkers, Zealots, and Sentries, and I want to be able to use FF and GS, is the only way for me to be able to use those skills by selecting the sentries first, or box selecting?
Subgroup priority is fixed by a unit prioritization scheme and the same no matter the method you use to create group (e.g., recalling from a hotkey or box selecting). In particular, the subgroup ordering you should see is sentry -> stalker -> zealot. So by default, you should be able to cast FF and GS with a group consisting of just these units without having to tab. If you want to, e.g., blink, you would need to tab to the stalker subgroup in order to do so. Furthermore, there is no way to change the 'default' subgroup selection for a particular group, so if you tab to the stalkers, wipe your selection, and then reselect the group, the sentries subgroup will be selected first.
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Oh! Ok thanks, so the priority will always be to the sentries, and if I DO need to blink with stalkers I have to tab to them?
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On April 18 2011 00:17 Tallbus wrote:
Oh! Ok thanks, so the priority will always be to the sentries, and if I DO need to blink with stalkers I have to tab to them?
Yes. In these cases, it's a good idea to break out multiple groups for each of your casters so you don't have to tab (and risk flubbing the subgroup you're selecting) to get to the ability you need.
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Ok cool, thats always been hard for me, like the microing and movement of multiple hotkey'd groups...
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Q: Why are people with 847 league wins still ranked in Bronze? I have under 20 league wins and probably only 40 total matches in league and i have to play people that probably have well over 1500 game experience. That seems kinda lopsided because the experience factor alone gives them an enormous advantage. Seems like these kinds of people could easily play silver or gold.. not sure why it doesn't auto promote them.
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On April 18 2011 01:56 Engore wrote:
Q: Why are people with 847 league wins still ranked in Bronze? I have under 20 league wins and probably only 40 total matches in league and i have to play people that probably have well over 1500 game experience. That seems kinda lopsided because the experience factor alone gives them an enormous advantage. Seems like these kinds of people could easily play silver or gold.. not sure why it doesn't auto promote them.
Because w:l is not necessarily a strong indicator of skill with battle.net 2.0. It's not how many games you play (since the system aims to place you at a 1:1 win-loss ratio), but instead whom the system matches you against that determines progression through leagues. In short, just because someone who has won 1k+ games in bronze doesn't necessarily mean they are any better than someone in silver. It just means that they have ground out ~2000 games to get to that point.
Excalibur_Z is the ladder expert around these parts. Look around for his posts, e.g., the comprehensive ladder guide:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=195273
to get a sense of how and why the ladder works the way that it does.
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EPT
