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What idra said, get hydras large maps.
On small maps and close positions on metal/kulas/LT you don't have time to get hydras, so your best bet is roach/sling.
Also, spines seem to be not the best vs ff and/or blink.
And to people suggesting to rush fungal.... You will die because you won't have any shit to kill him with even if you somehow menage to fungal correctly and in time. Later in game, sure fungal would be awsome.
Also, if i was a toss and i saw fast tech to hydras with skipping on anything (sling/queen/RW/roach speed/spines) i would probably go and kill him with normal 4gate that kicks in sooner.
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This build is so much fun! Because Scrap Station is so hard to win anyways, this is my new regular build on that map.
I lost pretty badly to a counter all-in baneling bust, but I think that's just because the ramp on scrap is so huge.
Thanks Naz :D
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I wouldnt' be too quick to call it Nazgul's build. It was first seen against Idra when Tyler player him in the show match a week back. I even expected Nazgul to train under Tyler since he really designed some builds that were counter idra. Watch game 3 for this build.
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I taught Tyler the stalker build, he used it in the match vs Idra, not the other way around. It originates from the build I did vs Check/Gerrard/Idra.
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very fast +1 attack speedlings can deal with it if you know it's coming and micro/macro properly. Missing larvae injects or supply blocking totally screws you
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On November 09 2010 22:13 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
I taught Tyler the stalker build, he used it in the match vs Idra, not the other way around. It originates from the build I did vs Check/Gerrard/Idra.
Ah then I stand corrected, I just assumed since I saw it earlier. Apologies. However, I have to thank you as my PvZ now comprises of an additional build, and it is lethal I say.
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On November 09 2010 22:29 Geo.Rion wrote:
very fast +1 attack speedlings can deal with it if you know it's coming and micro/macro properly. Missing larvae injects or supply blocking totally screws you
Speedlings don't help dude, they really dont. Once the level of blink micro is good enough, you can only take off shields before they blink it back. You will lose too many speedlings while they reinforce their army with more stalkers.
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I'll tell you one thing about this build....it works great against my failed attempt to 7RR >.<
True story.
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On November 09 2010 22:33 vohne wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2010 22:29 Geo.Rion wrote:
very fast +1 attack speedlings can deal with it if you know it's coming and micro/macro properly. Missing larvae injects or supply blocking totally screws you Speedlings don't help dude, they really dont. Once the level of blink micro is good enough, you can only take off shields before they blink it back. You will lose too many speedlings while they reinforce their army with more stalkers.
have you tried it or not? I did, +1 speedlings kill stalkers fairly quickly, and you have a lot as you dont need any gas past 200, sending a group of zerglins where he is escaping with the stalkers is not a problem on most of the maps. It takes about 3 +1 speedling to kill a stalker head on, you outnumber stalkers about 7-8 times with lings, micro makes stalkers effective, but if there's no super abusive terrain like Kulas stalkers will lose
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Just try it...
The dude double expended and massed ling (2 pages at first), I was able to beat the 2 pages (around 50-60) zerglings but the reinforcements just kill all my stalker that were already in the yellow/red.
Mass zergling might counter that build, if he doesnt power drone that much he can get enough zergling before the push come (i pushed at 8:20 on cross position, where tyler/nazgul push at 8:00)
I did try to use the terrain to my advantage but with so many lings... he could easily come fast enough to kill me stalker. Might want to use that big statue... a little more (on metal)
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Sweden33723 Posts
On November 09 2010 09:27 zor.au wrote:
not really a nazgul build, i think he practice it as their is a few replays gone around over time of IDRA losing to it(with some of him being BM).
It is definitely a Nazgul build -.- He killed Check and Gerrard with a variation of it during beta, and this was the only build he did PvZ when in Korea 2 months ago 
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I think the idea of getting blink stalkers very fast is actually great, but I kinda don't get the point of getting those 4Gates and all-in there yet. I think the fast Blink Stalkers are just awesome, when micro'd properly of course, and I like it even more as u can throw down a pretty safe expansion with "just" 3Gates while pressuring ur opponent and even killing him right there with 3Gate Blink Stalkers.
Why I think so is just because I tried Nazgul's build a lot in the past days and I actually never, like never at all, could afford all 4 Gates with Stalkers only, even while cutting Probes. I think the build is very nice against many common openings if ur control is well, but maybe the all-in-ish style is kinda not necessary.
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On November 09 2010 22:55 KuBa wrote:
I think the idea of getting blink stalkers very fast is actually great, but I kinda don't get the point of getting those 4Gates and all-in there yet. I think the fast Blink Stalkers are just awesome, when micro'd properly of course, and I like it even more as u can throw down a pretty safe expansion with "just" 3Gates while pressuring ur opponent and even killing him right there with 3Gate Blink Stalkers.
Why I think so is just because I tried Nazgul's build a lot in the past days and I actually never, like never at all, could afford all 4 Gates with Stalkers only, even while cutting Probes. I think the build is very nice against many common openings if ur control is well, but maybe the all-in-ish style is kinda not necessary.
If you don't kill him and instead expand behind this he will just grossly outproduce you later. And you'll loose all mapcontrol.
I mean even "just" 3 gates blinkstalker is pretty allin-ish it's not like you can transition into colossi nicely or hit a nice 2base timing with that opening.
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On November 09 2010 22:13 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
I taught Tyler the stalker build, he used it in the match vs Idra, not the other way around. It originates from the build I did vs Check/Gerrard/Idra.
When I saw Tyler doing that build I thought of you :D
It was heartbreaking to hear people giving so much credit to Tyler, he did a great job but I knew it was your build.
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What about roach-burrow play? Without the robo facility is it possible for the zerg player to spread creep well, get burrow/tunneling claws and counter your blink-sheild micro with burrow micro and the very high regen rate of roaches?
Edit: I almost never see this play normally... I've never come across a Z player that abuses roach burrow in any of my ladder games. And I don't think I've seen it in a top level game so I'm just wondering what people think the viability of it is.
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I've done some practise against this, and i think that with roach/ling you can defend against it.
i really dislike going hydras as they are so slow and the stalkers will always get away easily and have an easy task sniping out hydras as they have such low hp.
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On November 09 2010 23:07 Woony wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2010 22:55 KuBa wrote:
I think the idea of getting blink stalkers very fast is actually great, but I kinda don't get the point of getting those 4Gates and all-in there yet. I think the fast Blink Stalkers are just awesome, when micro'd properly of course, and I like it even more as u can throw down a pretty safe expansion with "just" 3Gates while pressuring ur opponent and even killing him right there with 3Gate Blink Stalkers.
Why I think so is just because I tried Nazgul's build a lot in the past days and I actually never, like never at all, could afford all 4 Gates with Stalkers only, even while cutting Probes. I think the build is very nice against many common openings if ur control is well, but maybe the all-in-ish style is kinda not necessary. If you don't kill him and instead expand behind this he will just grossly outproduce you later. And you'll loose all mapcontrol. I mean even "just" 3 gates blinkstalker is pretty allin-ish it's not like you can transition into colossi nicely or hit a nice 2base timing with that opening.
Okay, maybe it's not as smart to try a killing blow first and expand later, but you actually can, for example as he would get hydras, which is really viable, start teching to templars and if u feel not confident about an attack possibly coming in, you can still tech to chargelots. Maybe it's not "the" flaweless build ever, but still, you're not behind in tech at all, Colossi are strong, sure, but Templars are frikkin strong as well and even viable against Mutas (which are Blink Stalkers too ofc, just wanting to mention :D), which is the reason I wouldn't say that you could be behind in tech at all.
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Awesome to get info right from Nazgul himself. It's obviously one strat that every pro should be informed about. It also shows how maps at a high level can be very imbalanced.
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What does a protoss do if he gets gas stolen?
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On November 09 2010 23:42 DarKFoRcE wrote:
I've done some practise against this, and i think that with roach/ling you can defend against it.
i really dislike going hydras as they are so slow and the stalkers will always get away easily and have an easy task sniping out hydras as they have such low hp.
Did you practice knowing that this build was coming? Because up to now I found that zergs produce WAY too few speedlings and drone up if they don't scout the TC, which is what kills them, because even a low-diamond like me can micro blink-stalkers vs roach...
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EPT
