actually i know that marauders and stalkers are supposed to be good against roaches but roaches are quite strong for their price and they seem to do well even against those units

so im wondering if it wouldnt be a good choice to build the core of your ground army around roaches in both matchups and support with muta/infestor against T and corrupter/hydra against P

Penecks

United States600 Posts

August 30 2010 14:59 GMT

Maybe I'm doing something wrong but my roaches are eaten alive by marauders, them and stalkers can also abuse the short range to kite them somewhat. But yes the roach/hydra ball can work well against protoss provided you can take out any collosi fast enough and have prevented him from getting very many of them. I can't comment on roaches against terran as I try to phase them out quickly due to the marauders present in your average MMM or tank/rax strats.

HubertFelix

France631 Posts

August 30 2010 15:04 GMT

Roaches with speed uppgrade are not that bad against stalkers (but they are destroyed by sentries/stalkers).

But marauders definitely own roaches -_-

Komodo

Mexico89 Posts

August 30 2010 15:25 GMT

In a ZvT you will have the problem of tanks beside the marauders, you will need a good positioning to FG the terran army.

Amprophet

93 Posts

August 30 2010 15:31 GMT

They're okay vs. stalkers if you are diligent with creep and have the speed upgrade, but stim marauders will still kite you all the way across the map if they have to (which they don't because they can just smack you down). Infestors/Mutas take too long to get out if all you're going to do is build roaches in the early game.

tetramaster

Canada253 Posts

August 30 2010 15:32 GMT

The biggest reason marauders ROFLSTOMP roaches is, especially off-creep, the use of concussive shell+Stim+the longer range of the maurader means that they'll just kite till the roaches bite the dust.

Stalkers vs Roaches, well, it comes down to who's got the better concave/numbers, the battle isn't as one-sided as the one between 'rauders and roaches or 'rauders and stalkers.

Ndugu

United States1078 Posts

August 30 2010 15:36 GMT

Roaches do very well against Stalkers for cost and should be a big part of your late-game army for cost. Good force-fields can keep them out of range of Stalker/Collosi combinations, which can be problematic, but if you get a good flank with them nothing is better for cost.

Madkipz

Norway1643 Posts

August 30 2010 15:44 GMT

On August 30 2010 23:25 Alphasquad wrote:
actually i know that marauders and stalkers are supposed to be good against roaches but roaches are quite strong for their price and they seem to do well even against those units

so im wondering if it wouldnt be a good choice to build the core of your ground army around roaches in both matchups and support with muta/infestor against T and corrupter/hydra against P

Because of how gas intensive the mutalisk / corruptors are it will limit other gas intensive units such as the infestor or the hydralisk. Going roach, ling, muta has always been a balance between minerals and gas.

Alphasquad

Austria505 Posts

August 30 2010 15:52 GMT

i see that fully upped marauders are way better than roaches in 1v1 but usually terrans also go marines from one rax and marauders from the other while you are able to get 3 or more roaches all the time

and imo they have by far the best ratio between min and gas of all zerg units so thats why they are very interesting - i mean if you compare the costs of a roach with a baneling so instead of zergling/baneling/muta i was thinking of roach/zergling/muta

thats the intention behind especially against the protoss where banelings are usually not the best idea

36Chambers

5 Posts

August 30 2010 15:57 GMT

#10

If they mass Stalkers, get Roaches for meat, and Hydras to RAPE the Stalkers.

If they add a Colossus, get some Corruptors, snipe/Corrupt the Colossus. A Stalker/Zlot army against Hydra/Roach (with some speedlings) will usually lose.

KEY TO ZERG:
-Swarm the opponent. Don't just press A and click. Surround them. Fungal Growth them. Run away and run back. Pick them off. Protoss units are expensive.

Marauders will ruin Roaches. Fungal Growth is the key to beating a Terran BioBall.

Bibdy

United States3481 Posts

August 30 2010 16:00 GMT

#11

Protoss don't really want to have to make a lot of Stalkers early in the PvZ if they can help it (unless they're going for a Blink micro attack). They're very expensive and they're only going to win if they have a lot of space to kite. They'd have to start kiting from the front-door of your base all the way to their own before they start ripping apart important buildings and Zealots. But, nobody wants to send lone Stalkers to poke around out there with the potential threat of Speedlings jumping out of nowhere and sniping an expensive unit, so Protoss usually just hand map control over to Zerg for the first 8 minutes.

I haven't seen a Roach attack -> expand in a long while, but its still plenty powerful. You can really cripple a Protoss early with a wad of the things jumping out of the fog of war in front of your base.

dcberkeley

Canada844 Posts

August 30 2010 16:31 GMT

#12

On August 31 2010 00:32 tetramaster wrote:
The biggest reason marauders ROFLSTOMP roaches is, especially off-creep, the use of concussive shell+Stim+the longer range of the maurader means that they'll just kite till the roaches bite the dust.

Stalkers vs Roaches, well, it comes down to who's got the better concave/numbers, the battle isn't as one-sided as the one between 'rauders and roaches or 'rauders and stalkers.

No, the biggest reason marauders ROFLSTOMP roaches is because they do a shit-ton of damage to roaches and roaches don't do anything to marauders.

tetramaster

Canada253 Posts

August 30 2010 16:34 GMT

#13

On August 31 2010 01:31 dcberkeley wrote:

Show nested quote +

No, the biggest reason marauders ROFLSTOMP roaches is because they do a shit-ton of damage to roaches and roaches don't do anything to marauders.

Yes, because kiting and concussive shell stops roaches from even getting anywhere near close enough to roast the mauraders. (freaking range on marauders is a pain to deal with trying to play as a zerg).

The bonus to armored + stim means bye bye roaches.

0mar

United States567 Posts

August 31 2010 01:16 GMT

#14

Stalkers are actually pretty bad against large numbers of speed roaches. They can't kill them fast enough and they can't kite the roaches either since speed roaches are faster than stalkers. This only changes if the roaches are forced into a small corridor, like a ramp or through good FF usage.

heavynin3

9 Posts

August 31 2010 02:01 GMT

#15

If they have tanks/maruders and alot of them there is no reason to make them the backbone of your army. Tech switch to somthing better able to handle the units the enemy is making or attack at a time when the enemy isnt able to deal with your mass of roaches. (burrow micro can also help vs stalkers and maurders)