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This thread is to support discussion and thoughts about a terran slow push, similar to what terran was so effective at doing in sc1.
My idea of a slow push in sc2 would be completed in the earlier part of mid game, vs. P or Z, probably located outside their base/natural to contain/push inward. In my mind it would consist of a few tanks, supported by MM, bunkers, and how ever many turrets would be needed. Supply depots or planetary fortress could be built in front to block stalkers/hydra/sentries from surrounding. if you wanted to go all in with it and spend money :"/
my reasons for posting this:
1. What are your thoughts on this type of aggression, is terrans mobility low enough compared to other races that this would be considered a good use of terran army/resources to attack/contain? that is in my mind the reasoning behind the sc1 slow push (lack of mobility)
2. Questioning the efficacy of neosteel frame upgrade from ebay for this type of a push. Having 6 slots in bunkers and extra armor for buildings seems nice, just wondering how much would it help in your minds, has anyone used it? how much stronger would it make your bunkers/turrets? I haven't upgraded it yet in beta.
3. other composition. I like the idea of banshees being out there with the group. They have nice range to stay over marines/bunkers and be able to leave the blockade and harass some too. They also do very nice damage and would be protected by turrets. having 1-2 thor included seems like a good idea, but may not be needed. having 4-5 scvs with the push to repair tanks/turrets and build anything you need seems like a must.
Protoss and Zerg players, please let me know ur thoughts also. If someone was pushing with this style towards your natural, how would you react, what would you use to break it, etc. yo9ur thoughts plz sirs. thanks :D -wheels
-wheels
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I think the neosteel frames upgrade is interesting but I can't find a really good reason to get it. The thing is that bunkers are so cheap (considering you can recoup resources), so you might as well make 2 bunkers and have more total bunker HP than simple pack two more units into a bunker.
I feel like neosteel MIGHT be worth upgrading only if you're using a lot of bunkers AND plan on taking an island with a CC (so you can fit 10 SCV's). Another issue with the upgrade is that there are 4 other good upgrades you should probably research instead at the Ebay.
EDIT: And about the rest of the OP...
I don't know if a slow push would be as effective in SC2 because the mobility of armies is greater, I feel like they would be able to defend + send air/drops/small armies around your push and go destroy your base. There are so many backdoors and just letting a small force into your base would be pretty detrimental, but if you don't put everything into the push it will just get crushed. I guess I feel that it comes back to the issue in SC2 where it's more difficult to split your forces effectively.
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Well, the armor upgrade is worth it for Planetary fortresses alone, 5 armor on a buildings vs zerg is CRAZY.
as someone who is getting the bunker upgrade + armor upgrade and slow pushing. Yeah it's pretty good, though i've been getting thor + tank + marine + banshee vs toss/zerg and thor + tank + marine + viking vs terran.
Marauders don't cut it for the army since you need serious protection vs immortals and air and reactors on the barracks quickly reinforce your army.
Forward Bunkers to contain are pretty much always worth it, because they can be salvaged. adding turrets is good too vs toss and vs Terran but vs zerg it's not necessary beyond maybe 1 if they are roach heavy, the only air you have to worry about vs zerg that gives you trouble are broodlords and turrets don't do crap vs em anyway.
3 armor on your bunker means that unupgraded lings ( the kind you face vs most zerg players right now) deal 2 damage a hit. so 10 lings means 20 volleys until the bunker goes down, and your marines kill the 10 lings in 10 volleys. so it takes well over 250 minerals to take down your 100 mineral bunker. vs toss it reduces zealot damage from 8+8 to 5+5 or just removes any upgrades they have, sentries deal pretty much no damage to bunkers. protection vs storm for your marines is crazy good especially since to get in range of your tanks for storm they have to get shot at by the bunkers anyway, so templar are negated. the only threat is collosus, for which you have turrets/banshee/viking, It works good as a contain once you get set up, but it's difficult to get set up and alot of armies are more mobile (especially toss) so you have to scout really well for drops/prisms/pylons.
scouting is even more important for this.
for zerg, if they get ultras your contain fails. but most zerg never get ultras, but also ultras are expensive (they have roughly a 875/875 tax on using them in the form of defensive upgrades) so you should be able to overrun them since they had to dedicate a TON to breaking the contain.
also note that you can fit a marauder a ghost and two reaper into a bunker that is upgraded. that doesn't sound very impressive until you consider it's power. it slows, shoot from FAR away for a ton of damage, if they get close it deals a rediculous amount of damage, the ghost can always pop out to EMP immortals and jump back in unharmed, I've used this in bio armies, but for defending random chokes as kind of an advanced warning system, never for the slow push contain.
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I think Neosteel, Building Armor, and Hi-Sec in combination with salvaged bunkers and PF give Terran all of the turtling advantage we'd expect.
I want to see more use of PF to control territory. Zerg can mass and relocate crawlers. Protoss can make cannon flowers. Let's see some bunker/PF strongholds.
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I suggest using barracks's instead of bunkers. Makes for excellent scouts/spotters and you can leap frog them(thinking of them as meatshield) so your tanks always have something infront of them. Also good at preventing flanks since you can readjust them, if you see it coming anyway. They also have 1k hp, which is ton, compared to bunkers. I personally always take the +2 armor, but that might be a stupid decision, dunno.
Lack of marines hasn't really hurt me btw vs toss(immos). I just played a game earlier where I had some contain(well he could've played better, but I sure could've done ton better too) and a rather immo heavy army(resources were similar, the toss slightly ahead) and my tanks just buttfucked them, heck I don't think the immos got into range before they died.
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I'd probably attempt to stop the direct push forward, pull my army back, just force the terran to dig in. On most maps, you can abuse the terran's mobility issues. Overlord drops with speedlings can force an expansion to lift off, and it allows you to hold the majority of your army at the point of contention. Also, you don't really have many ways of dealing with that without splitting your army, becoming vulnerable to air forces, since your most mobile units are air defense, quick thinking makes you move those to defend, while your main army is engaged by an air-heavy force.
The composition seems weak because of the lack of vikings. Two words, void rays. A precharged void ray group with a ground force will rip through your army out in the middle of the map. Protoss would be very hard opponent to do this against if you slowly push.
Banshees and thor seems like a BITCH to fight though... If you have the money at the alloted time you intend to push, which you most likely will not, It's a really really gas heavy build, and you most likely won't have many siege tanks, since you pump out 2 thor.
Neosteel doesn't seem like a game changer at all, it would just be normal, except you need more micro to move your other units, and your tanks get targeted first. Seems like a waste of money 
Just my 2 cents, correct me if I'm wrong on this, Viking, hellion, marauder, tank. Seems like a very good slow push group, 9 range air defense, plus turrets, marauders for the slowed movement as they head for your tanks, marauders in bunkers for making banelings waste themselves killing it, tanks tear shit up, and hellion are your harass protectors, they are very mobile. I really hope this stayed relevant to your idea. I just hope I don't have to face a slow push like this .
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TossFloss
Canada606 Posts
On May 18 2010 08:08 metasonic wrote:
I think the neosteel frames upgrade is interesting but I can't find a really good reason to get it. The thing is that bunkers are so cheap (considering you can recoup resources), so you might as well make 2 bunkers and have more total bunker HP than simple pack two more units into a bunker.
Bunkers have a large 3x3 foot print. You can only squeeze so many in an area.
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garchomp, that composition could probably work just as well too. Just differing the composition of the push depending on what opponent is doing and his race is very important to this strategy i think.
@mmp. I saw a game where TheLittleOne (i think it was him :/) on metalopolis, he built a planetary fortress in each side road, blocking both ground paths into his side of the map. lol
this was kind of random, but yes, forward placed planetary fortresses seem fun :D
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i tried turtling my way over on steppes of war TvP a few patches ago before the siege tank BUFF. i got rocked by storm so badly.
but now that siege is actually good, i will try it again!
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On May 18 2010 08:45 wheelchairs wrote:
garchomp, that composition could probably work just as well too. Just differing the composition of the push depending on what opponent is doing and his race is very important to this strategy i think.
@mmp. I saw a game where TheLittleOne (i think it was him :/) on metalopolis, he built a planetary fortress in each side road, blocking both ground paths into his side of the map. lol
this was kind of random, but yes, forward placed planetary fortresses seem fun :D
yeah if i was on 3-4 bases and control 2 more mining areas i'd do the same thing and wait for 2-2 or even 3-3 upgrades then 1a1a1a1a1a to victory
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Here is a replay of a decent slow push i just played a game on kulas ravine TvP.
TvP slow push kulas ravine
I didnt build more than 2 bunkers, but i had plenty of tanks, with a few vikings for colossi + MMM, just got ghost tech near the end so never used that.
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Hmm just reread this and see you were speaking of early midgame. Well I've uploaded the file already so  but this is lategame.
TvZ Kulas
Neither player is good/awesome, but as I can see(esp. on this map), there's pretty little the zerg can do(unless he's just way way way better than the t). (This was my first time actually pushing like this)
Drops and/or nydus are the biggest dangers I reckon, but lately I've been defending more against that with turret spam and building sentry towers to ensure z has no sight to nydus in. Been also using PF more, if I went into that game again I'd prob build PFs close to the destructable rocks in the south&north. This kinda play just makes me way to cautious, so I have just been having quite boring drawnout games rather than going for the kill when the window opens up.
Edit: If a Z player can see any huge flaws in this push, then please point it out(flaw in the strat that is, not my crap macro )
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Neosteel would be the last thing that I would research, considering that +2 armor and increased range are so much better, especially given that slow push strategies typically don't use bio / have no need for bunkers. Most games, I don't research Neosteel at all, opting for the range upgrade first and grabbing the +armor if I find myself with a lot of excess gas.
In any case, turrets (and sensor towers) are an extremely vital backbone for your viking / tank task force, given that they allow you to position your otherwise awkward tanks around enemy movements, provide detection vs roaches / banshees / DTs / observers, and serve to even the odds in AtA battles.
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If neosteel frames came in boxes labeled "voidray proof" then I would be all signed up.
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i would really like to see them toss neosteel frames on the same upgrade as range for turrents or the 2 armor for buildings. Would get used alot more think more people would use bunkers and would not be op or anything.
As it stands i can remebr 1 video show somone use neosteel frames lol alot with getting range and maybe 2 that got the armor. So prob would be the best to merge the crap into one ball and make it cost a tiny bit more.
Call it ultimate Defence or somthing gay and silly : P lol
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I know this is an old thread, but has anyone tried this recently in TvP?
Upgrading Neosteel Frame and Building armor for a slow push might be a pretty good transition after opening mass-bio. You could try to time the bunkers/upgrades such that you have them when Toss gets his Colossus/Storm, then add on Tanks/Vikings to stop Colossi from poking them without consequences. Leapfrog and salvage across the map.
Seems a little more solid than "oh god I hope I have just the right amount of vikings and can EMP all his templar @_@"
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I do this in my TvPs on steppes.
Cut the map in half and use siege tanks / vikings to pressure the natural of the protoss.
Marines and marauders in bunker that have been upgraded are scary good.
Turrets hit phenoix and colossus XD
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They are better to serve as storm shelters for the marine AA component in a mech composition. It is of questionable use though. The +1 range on 2 more units isn't exactly great and it doesn't do anything for the survivability of the building which is going to be the main goal of structures in a slow push.
You just need stuff in the way that has HP and allows for additional siege rounds to land. For that, you should get +2. Though late game it may be quite viable if you are facing Carriuu.
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naama vs manaa finals show just that, with tanks.
No upgrades though
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EPT
