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Hey guys,
So I have been finding seige expanding working a lot better since the patch. Granted I'm still climbing the platinum ranks and mopping the floor with the noobs, and can't call this SUPER viable, but the build is loosely this:
9.5 Supply
11.5 rax
13 Ref
15 Rine/Orbital CMD
16 rine
17 Supply
17 Ref/SCV Mule
18 Tech Lab
18 Factory -> Tech lab -> Tank/Seige
25 Supply
30 rax -> Reactor
35ish CC
Starport and Engineering bay are usually interchanged depending on what i scout somewhere typically right before or after I expo.
I usually pump mauraders and SCV's continuously as well with tanks, it gets a little more loose as the build goes on, but this is quite safe against really all races I've found. Usually immortals aren't too big of a problem against a few tanks for defense. But the whole idea is a timing push around 100 supply or so with marine/maurader/medivac.
Its a situational build but if your opponent is going for the roach rush or straight up rush of any kind they will likely be dominated. However, the build might be hard to counter other faster fast expand builds, but overall I feel comfortable against rushes and comfortable double expanding if need be. I like switching my builds up a lot, but lately, this one has been my trusty gun. But hey, lets have some people watch their replays and post some builds that they have been trying to make and see what has been working for you. I was a really big fan of a marine maurader adaptation I had pre patch, but the changes in the patch really had me taking another look at meching early.
Thanks for reading!
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Osaka27140 Posts
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10 depot
12 rax
13 gas, send 2 scvs
15 OC and tech lab shortly afterwards
17 reaper. use it to scout or to get some worker kills vs greedy players
17 depot
19 cc in base
21 marauder
22 gas
Continue to make marauders after the cc and make sure to scout if a rush is coming with that first reaper. When the cc is at 1200/1500, make an ebay and float cc and make a PF.
This can also be used for a fast gold expansion on large maps, just get an earlier ebay
This build is not for fast MM b/c it goes PF instead of OC and the faster minerals really help w/ marine massing. I use this build every game to get a lot of gas so i can comfortably mass gas heavy units that take a longer time to build, so i don't need the minerals.
I got bored of simply massing MMM every game so i came up with this one to mass tanks and banshees faster.
The PF w/ turrets will deflect anything the toss can throw at you that early in the game. If he's going quick air, I will know with the reaper.
It's iffy vs zerg b/c speedlings own marauders, but i mostly use 1fac FE in that MU
It's very doable in TvT as long as you scout well with that reaper to see if he's going siege, air, or mass MM
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I think thats what prompted me to really explore other options as well. The 1/1 MM or MMM rush were both timings I was messing around with, but I feel I was trying to get the game down to a science too fast too soon. I'm trying to play more baseline and loose this patch and just scout more and be responsive, but I like the reaper, I might try and get that instead of my first mauarader, especially against P.
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I've been testing BOs myself and siege opening is also my favorite~ My build is pretty similar to yours
9 supply
10 rax
12 ref
13 supply (if you need to wall with 2 supps. I suppose you could delay this)
13 OC
~transfer 2 scvs to gas
~start working on 2/3 marines to hold the wall
15 fac
16 ref
17 tech lab on rax
~transfer 2 scvs on second gas
18 switch the fac and rax around, you should have exactly enough gas then to research Seige and pump one tank. The tank should come out by 25 supply.
then from this point on its a bit more hazy... on maps like Blistering/Lost temple you can pretty easily hold your nat's choke with one seige tank or two, so I'll build a Bunker close to the ramp and a CC. I have also found this to be safe against most things. At the very least it beats Dimaga's baneling bust (tank comes out around the 6:00 mark, seige finishes researching @ ~6:30). Don't know if there's any type of cheese that can break your wall before then.
Having siege tanks controlling chokes also allows you to get a second orbital instead of morphing your CC into a PF.
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Definitely agree about the 2nds orbital, thats how I do it! Good call on the switching the fac to the rax spot. I am going to go try that right now. I usually do that with my Rax/Fac much later if I need to get hellions against zerg or something. Im definitely gonna write this down and practice it. I appreciate the insight!
I worry about getting 2 fac as early as that though, since the whole point of my build is to fast Expand. Your build seems much more aggressive.
I agree with your input on banelings though. That always pissed me off going MM when I was setting up and like 10 banelings would kill a couple supply and a handful of marines. Definitely annoying.
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There's only one fac in my opening xD and no problem lol
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imo, you dont really even need a PF. just throw down 2-3 bunkers + tanks and you should be fine. + or - with proper scouting.
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I don't care...i get to mine gas for 3 extra minutes if i do PF expand.
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If anyone is still reading I would love to see some quick banshee build orders, I know its supposedly close to the BW wraith build but alas I only played sc bw for the first 2 years....short attention span sorry.
First post hooray me
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On March 30 2010 14:00 BentoBox wrote:
There's only one fac in my opening xD and no problem lol
Oh apparently I didn't read close enough. Sorry mate!
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On March 31 2010 07:28 abominare wrote:
If anyone is still reading I would love to see some quick banshee build orders, I know its supposedly close to the BW wraith build but alas I only played sc bw for the first 2 years....short attention span sorry.
First post hooray me
The timings are a bit different depending on if it's TvT, TvP, or TvZ
here's an example of a TvP fast banshee build:
louder(T) v Lemming(P)
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Well, there's two banshee build orders that come to mind...
First is just the regular TvZ fast banshee build, which should be noted relies heavily upon luck (ie, does the zerg waste money on roaches which he does not need, or get his lair up early for hydras/mutas to counter), which goes
10 sd
11 rax, constantly pump marines and ring your base with marines to prevent overlord scout. If the Zerg scout this build, you're done.
12/13 ref
15 Orbital command
sd
fac + tech lab
starport, switch with fac for instant tech lab, shaving 30 seconds off the build time.
banshees
There's also the alternative to that build which has a reactor switch instead of a tech lab, which allows for 2 quick vikings. This build is more flexible and it rapeshit good on Kulas ravine if the Zerg tries to expand to the regular (ie, not the one requiring destructable rocks to be cleared) natural because the cliff overlooking it covers his entire mineral line. Plus you can always just fly aroudn and shoot overlords, and vikings make for ok, though not amazing, ground units (about as good as roaches, for about twice as much cost).
After getting 1 or 2 banshees, you can either start setting up an expansion or transition into a push. I'm not sure what the best push would be, but if he's going hydras to shut down your banshees then use tanks + siege tech as that rapes hydras. If he has a roach warren up and a fair few roaches and is trying to counter with just spore crawlers, then obv go marauders + hellions (in case of a few lings, there's always some).
The weakness of banshee opening play is that it is really BO poker. If the zerg fast techs lair or just decides to place spore crawlers anyway then you're screwed. You put a lot on money into banshees and they HAVE to kill loads of workers to be worthwhile. It's very inflexible too, if you scout that he's going lair first or for a baneling break, then you cannot just cancel your starport/banshees and not be hugely behind. The other weakness is because your starport and factory would have to be (preferably) somewhere not easily scoutable, it means you cannot use them to plug your wall against potential baneling breaks lest they be too esaily scouted. Yes, i fucking hate banelings. Why do they have to do so much against structures? Can't we give zerg a buildiing rapist that's not t1 like everyone else? RAGE!
The strength is that, if it's not scouted then you're in for a field day. Banshees (especially in the next patch) can 1v1 queens easily, and 2 shot drones all day long. You can do a LOT of damage with this build, but it is incredibly risky.
The other kind of banshee opening is going 11 rax/ref/sd/fac/starport for a very fast, very risky and very baller banshee play. I think this was done in a Day [9] cast in a T v Idra game, but I don't watch it (heard it from my friends). I can vouch for banshees giving Idra the shits, as one game I had against him my banshees racked up about 15+ drone kills, and a queen, to which he responded "fucking ridiculous units". I still lost because I'm crap at this game and transition improperly, but there you go.
(note, he was well mannered the rest of the game, so I guess it's just banshees that get him going.)
as for banshee openings in tvt and tvp, I don't do those very often or fight them often. I suppose you should try and proxy the starport (and the factory too for the tech lab switch if you're THAT ballsy) so it cannot be scouted easily, particularly as stopping scans and observers is a mite bit tricky. The main flaws is that Protoss have excellent detection which they can get extremely quickly, and their anti air isn't horrible. The problem with Terran is that marines are extremely good anti air units (well, for cost) and that scans can really ruin your fancy play.
Personally, I don't like banshees that much for the same reason I don't like reapers too much; they lack real frontline roles. Oh sure, you could use banshees with cloak as part of your MMM or whatever, but there's better uses for your gas. I guess it's kinda similar to Dark Templar I suppose.
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I usually go for certain orders for certain maps like: if I'm playing zentih then I'll wall up first thing and go with mass viking/banshee/reaper I usually like to get tanks on the rim of my base then like put two bunkers,a tower, and two tanks at my ramp and putting turrets behind my mineral lines and a siege tank next to my cc doing so makes it more effective defending my base.
usually I go for:
10 supply
12 rax
13-14 gas/tech lab(sometimes afterwords I'll mass reapers)
16 oc and call down mules
20 factory/lab/siege tech/tanks(sometimes ghost academys)
21ish supply
22 starport/techlab/reactor/cloak tech
23 start pumping banshees/battlecruisers occasionally
etc
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This thread was over 8 months old, why bump it -.-
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Like the world's gonna end er somethin.
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EPT
