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Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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TossFloss *
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada606 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-09 01:15:22
March 21 2010 20:01 GMT
#1
2010-05-08 Updated for patch 11. Added carrier, void ray(uncharged), void ray(charged). Now properly accounts for air damage vs colossus.

% Advantage Analysis
+ Show Spoiler +

Protoss
PvP
PvT
PvZ

Terran
TvP
TvT
TvZ

Zerg
ZvP
ZvT
ZvZ


Number of Hits
+ Show Spoiler +

Protoss
PvP
PvT
PvZ

Terran
TvP
TvT
TvZ

Zerg
ZvP
ZvT
ZvZ


How-To
The charts show the unit vs unit upgrade advantages for each matchup. The advantages were computed by calculating the number of hits needed to kill a unit, NOT the dps.

The data show the % advantage of upgrading from the previous upgrade level.

The following example illustrates how to interprate the % advantage table data.
+ Show Spoiler +

ATTACK ANALYSIS lv1 lv2 lv3
Roach vs (-/+0)Zealot 11.11% 12.50% 0.00%
Roach vs (-/+1)Zealot 10.00% 11.11% 12.50%
Roach vs (-/+2)Zealot 20.00% 11.11% 12.50%
Roach vs (-/+3)Zealot 18.18% 10.00% 11.11%

Explanation:
Against zealots with no armor upgrades (-/+0), +1 roaches kill 11.11% faster than +0 roaches. +2 roaches kill 12.5% faster than +1 roaches. +3 roaches kill 0% faster than +2 roaches.

Against zealots with +1 armor upgrades (-/+1), +1 roaches kill 10% faster than +0 roaches. +2 roaches kill 11% faster than +1 roaches. +3 roaches kill 12% faster than +2 roaches.

And so on for (-/+2) and (-/+3) zealots.

ARMOR ANALYSIS lv1 lv2 lv3
+0 Zealot vs Roach: 18.18% 15.38% 26.67%
+1 Zealot vs Roach: 10.00% 18.18% 15.38%
+2 Zealot vs Roach: 11.11% 10.00% 18.18%
+3 Zealot vs Roach: 12.50% 11.11% 10.00%

Explanation:
Against zealots with +0 attack upgrade. Roaches with +1 armor upgrade tank 18.18% tougher than roaches with no armor upgrade. Roaches with +2 armor tank 15.38% tougher than roaches with just the +1 armor upgrade. Roaches with +3 armor tank 26.67% tougher than with +2 armor.

Against zealots with +1 attack upgrade. Roaches with +1 armor are 10.00% tougher than roaches with +0 armor. And so on...



Assumptions
The data was computed with the following considerations:
  • zerg units seem to regenerate 1hp almost instantly when taking damage from full health
  • Units take at least 1 damage from every attack


Misc.
Click here to view the unit stats database used to generate the charts

Click here to download the python script used to generate the charts.
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MorroW
Profile Joined August 2008
Sweden3522 Posts
March 21 2010 20:05 GMT
#2
would be good to see how many hits u need as a number instead of %
Progamerpls no copy pasterino
TossFloss *
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada606 Posts
March 21 2010 20:05 GMT
#3
On March 22 2010 05:05 MorroW wrote:
would be good to see how many hits u need as a number instead of %


Sure I can put that info up as well. Will be up in a bit.
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MorroW
Profile Joined August 2008
Sweden3522 Posts
March 21 2010 20:07 GMT
#4
awesome

btw i was making a program in c++ exactly like this, but i suppose that will be useless now. will still keep working on it since i mostly do it for fun ^^
Progamerpls no copy pasterino
Dr.Frost
Profile Joined April 2009
United States389 Posts
March 21 2010 20:09 GMT
#5
Yeah defintiely the number of hits would be easier. This % system can be confusing.
They are here to right our fall, they have heard someones troubled call???
geno
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States1404 Posts
March 21 2010 20:10 GMT
#6
Incredible amount of useful information here, thank you very much for this!
CharlieMurphy
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
United States22895 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-03-21 20:22:26
March 21 2010 20:12 GMT
#7
the chart is really confusing, I don't understand your explanation either.

so something like this:
Roach vs (-/+0)Zealot 11.11% 12.50% 0.00%
is broken down into this:
Roach vs (no R armor upg/no Z attack upg) Zealot. level 1 Z attack= 11% better, lvl 2 Z attack= 12% better, lvl 3 Z attack = worthless.
Or is it levels for armor upgrades? Or do I have them backwards all together (Z armor vs R attack)?

need # of hits breakdown, yea. It's a lot easier to understand and more applicable to a game than unit efficiency.
..and then I would, ya know, check em'. (Aka SpoR)
TossFloss *
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada606 Posts
March 21 2010 20:21 GMT
#8
On March 22 2010 05:12 CharlieMurphy wrote:
the chart is really confusing, I don't understand your explanation either.

so something like this:
Roach vs (-/+0)Zealot 11.11% 12.50% 0.00%
is broken down into this:
Roach vs (no R armor upg/no Z attack upg) Zealot. level 1 Z attack= 11% better, lvl 2 Z attack= 12% better, lvl 3 Z attack = worthless.
Or is it levels for armor upgrades? Or do I have them backwards all together (Z armor vs R attack)?

need # of hits breakdown, yea. It's a lot easier to understand and more applicable to a game than unit efficiency.


Hi. Sorry for the poor explanation.

For the attack analysis table:
  • Attacker's attack upgrade increases moving across rows from left to right.
  • Defender's armor upgrade increases moving down columns from top to bottom.


For the armor analysis table:
  • Defender's armor upgrade increases moving across rows from left to right.
  • Attacker's attack upgrade increases moving down columns from top to bottom.


Will put up # of hits breakdown soon.

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Mente
Profile Joined December 2009
United States288 Posts
March 21 2010 20:26 GMT
#9
Interesting, hits would also be appreciated!
Solomon Grundy want pants too!
TossFloss *
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada606 Posts
March 21 2010 20:50 GMT
#10
Added # number of hits charts for each matchup.
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Windmonk
Profile Joined May 2009
Canada93 Posts
March 21 2010 21:06 GMT
#11
Awesome, this data will affect my play style for sure.

Battlecuiser stats are missing tho, i would love to see the armor/damage upgrade difference.
~Watch and Learn~
Plissken_2097
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Spain628 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-03-21 21:55:49
March 21 2010 21:53 GMT
#12
It shouldn't be
+ Show Spoiler +
ARMOR ANALYSIS lv1 lv2 lv3
+0 Zealot vs Roach: 18.18% 26.67% 31.58%
+1 Zealot vs Roach: 15.38% 18.18% 26.67%
+2 Zealot vs Roach: 11.11% 15.38% 18.18%
+3 Zealot vs Roach: 10.00% 11.11% 15.38%

instead of
+ Show Spoiler +
ARMOR ANALYSIS lv1 lv2 lv3
+0 Zealot vs Roach: 15.38% 26.67% 31.58%
+1 Zealot vs Roach: 18.18% 15.38% 26.67%
+2 Zealot vs Roach: 10.00% 18.18% 15.38%
+3 Zealot vs Roach: 11.11% 10.00% 18.18%

?
Formerly Golondrin
TossFloss *
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada606 Posts
March 21 2010 22:15 GMT
#13
On March 22 2010 06:53 Golondrin wrote:
It shouldn't be
+ Show Spoiler +
ARMOR ANALYSIS lv1 lv2 lv3
+0 Zealot vs Roach: 18.18% 26.67% 31.58%
+1 Zealot vs Roach: 15.38% 18.18% 26.67%
+2 Zealot vs Roach: 11.11% 15.38% 18.18%
+3 Zealot vs Roach: 10.00% 11.11% 15.38%

instead of
+ Show Spoiler +
ARMOR ANALYSIS lv1 lv2 lv3
+0 Zealot vs Roach: 15.38% 26.67% 31.58%
+1 Zealot vs Roach: 18.18% 15.38% 26.67%
+2 Zealot vs Roach: 10.00% 18.18% 15.38%
+3 Zealot vs Roach: 11.11% 10.00% 18.18%

?


The original is correct.

To understand why, have a look at the equivalent raw # of hits chart.
################ lvl0 lvl1 lvl2 lvl3
+0 Zealot vs Roach: 13 15 19 25
+1 Zealot vs Roach: 11 13 15 19
+2 Zealot vs Roach: 10 11 13 15
+3 Zealot vs Roach: 9 10 11 13

In the first row a +0 zealot kills a -/+0 roach in 13 hits. Getting the +1 armor upgrade increase that to 15 hits. So it takes 15/13 = 15.38% more hits to kill the roach.

Looking at the second row: a +1 zealot kills a -/+0 roach in 11 hits. Getting the +1 armor upgrade increases that to 13 hits. So now your +1 roaches are 13/11 = 18.18% more effective than without the +1 armor upgrade.
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Deleted User 61629
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
1664 Posts
March 21 2010 22:22 GMT
#14
--- Nuked ---
CharlieMurphy
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
United States22895 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-03-21 22:56:22
March 21 2010 22:37 GMT
#15
interesting, blings are one of the only (maybe the only) unit to end up doing more damage when both sides are fulled upped (most just equal out).
spoke too soon, roaches & ultras too!
edit- is this because there is no shield armor taken into consideration?


edit- I found a problem, it says that corruptors are n/a vs collosus, but collosus can be attacked by both ground and air units. Dang, this was one of the important ones too imo.

Air Attack: 12 (+1)
+10 (+1) Damage against Massive.
Armor: 2 (+1)

200/150
Armor: 1 (+1)

double damn, this thing http://sc2calc.net23.net/ doesn't have all the zerg units (missing corruptor/broodlords/broodlings/banelings and maybe some other?)

quick math on corruptors vs no up collosus
upgrades: 0 1 2 3
hits: 16 15 14 13
..and then I would, ya know, check em'. (Aka SpoR)
CharlieMurphy
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
United States22895 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-03-21 23:16:09
March 21 2010 23:08 GMT
#16
I think there might be something wrong with the marine vs mutalisk in ZvT hit chart too.
and marine vs broodlords.
yea and then the marine(shield) is all N/A too vs mutas and imbalords.

interesting that mutalisk are better AA over Corruptors vs banshee and viking.
..and then I would, ya know, check em'. (Aka SpoR)
pure.Wasted
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada4701 Posts
March 21 2010 23:15 GMT
#17
Is there any way to account for splash in these?

IE, a Siege Mode tank kills a Marine in 1 hit regardless of anyone's upgrades, but maybe tank attack reduces hits for nearby Marines from 3 to 2, or something. Do we even have a way of knowing what the Tank's damage is at what range from primary target?
INna Maru-da-FanTa, Bbaby, TY Dream that I'm Flashing you
CharlieMurphy
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
United States22895 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-03-21 23:25:43
March 21 2010 23:18 GMT
#18
On March 22 2010 08:15 pure.Wasted wrote:
Is there any way to account for splash in these?

IE, a Siege Mode tank kills a Marine in 1 hit regardless of anyone's upgrades, but maybe tank attack reduces hits for nearby Marines from 3 to 2, or something. Do we even have a way of knowing what the Tank's damage is at what range from primary target?

That kinda stuff requires micro/positioning and can't be accurately tested, and isn't really applicable data because it's very specific/situational. I mean you could even take it another step and say well in most ZvT they have marine/marauder and a tank doing splash. Each marine is 2 less hits and marauder is 1 less or whatever. It gets too complicated and messy trying to figure it all out.

Imagine trying to figure out broodlords and broodlings damage output considering normal factors.


For these things, you just need to playtest and get a feel for it.


BoT, Wow upgrades for roaches vs hydras are very important. They both kill each other around 8~9 seconds and an attack upgrade from the hydra beats a roach, but an armor or attack beats a hydra again.
..and then I would, ya know, check em'. (Aka SpoR)
Vernom
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Spain374 Posts
March 21 2010 23:23 GMT
#19
Useful, a thing like that should be added to Liquipedia II.
TossFloss *
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada606 Posts
March 21 2010 23:31 GMT
#20
On March 22 2010 08:08 CharlieMurphy wrote:
I think there might be something wrong with the marine vs mutalisk in ZvT hit chart too.
and marine vs broodlords.
yea and then the marine(shield) is all N/A too vs mutas and imbalords.

interesting that mutalisk are better AA over Corruptors vs banshee and viking.


Thanks a lot.

There was a mistake in the unit stats database. The marine's was doing x6 attacks to air units o_O. Fixing the charts now.
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