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TossFloss
Canada585 Posts
2010-05-08 Updated for patch 11. Added carrier, void ray(uncharged), void ray(charged). Now properly accounts for air damage vs colossus.
% Advantage Analysis
+ Show Spoiler +
Number of Hits
+ Show Spoiler +
How-To
The charts show the unit vs unit upgrade advantages for each matchup. The advantages were computed by calculating the number of hits needed to kill a unit, NOT the dps.
The data show the % advantage of upgrading from the previous upgrade level.
The following example illustrates how to interprate the % advantage table data.
+ Show Spoiler +
ATTACK ANALYSIS lv1 lv2 lv3
Roach vs (-/+0)Zealot 11.11% 12.50% 0.00%
Roach vs (-/+1)Zealot 10.00% 11.11% 12.50%
Roach vs (-/+2)Zealot 20.00% 11.11% 12.50%
Roach vs (-/+3)Zealot 18.18% 10.00% 11.11%
Explanation:
Against zealots with no armor upgrades (-/+0), +1 roaches kill 11.11% faster than +0 roaches. +2 roaches kill 12.5% faster than +1 roaches. +3 roaches kill 0% faster than +2 roaches.
Against zealots with +1 armor upgrades (-/+1), +1 roaches kill 10% faster than +0 roaches. +2 roaches kill 11% faster than +1 roaches. +3 roaches kill 12% faster than +2 roaches.
And so on for (-/+2) and (-/+3) zealots.
ARMOR ANALYSIS lv1 lv2 lv3
+0 Zealot vs Roach: 18.18% 15.38% 26.67%
+1 Zealot vs Roach: 10.00% 18.18% 15.38%
+2 Zealot vs Roach: 11.11% 10.00% 18.18%
+3 Zealot vs Roach: 12.50% 11.11% 10.00%
Explanation:
Against zealots with +0 attack upgrade. Roaches with +1 armor upgrade tank 18.18% tougher than roaches with no armor upgrade. Roaches with +2 armor tank 15.38% tougher than roaches with just the +1 armor upgrade. Roaches with +3 armor tank 26.67% tougher than with +2 armor.
Against zealots with +1 attack upgrade. Roaches with +1 armor are 10.00% tougher than roaches with +0 armor. And so on...
Assumptions
The data was computed with the following considerations:
- zerg units seem to regenerate 1hp almost instantly when taking damage from full health
- Units take at least 1 damage from every attack
Misc.
Click here to view the unit stats database used to generate the charts
Click here to download the python script used to generate the charts.
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would be good to see how many hits u need as a number instead of %
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TossFloss
Canada585 Posts
On March 22 2010 05:05 MorroW wrote:
would be good to see how many hits u need as a number instead of %
Sure I can put that info up as well. Will be up in a bit.
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awesome
btw i was making a program in c++ exactly like this, but i suppose that will be useless now. will still keep working on it since i mostly do it for fun ^^
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Yeah defintiely the number of hits would be easier. This % system can be confusing.
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Incredible amount of useful information here, thank you very much for this!
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the chart is really confusing, I don't understand your explanation either.
so something like this:
Roach vs (-/+0)Zealot 11.11% 12.50% 0.00%
is broken down into this:
Roach vs (no R armor upg/no Z attack upg) Zealot. level 1 Z attack= 11% better, lvl 2 Z attack= 12% better, lvl 3 Z attack = worthless.
Or is it levels for armor upgrades? Or do I have them backwards all together (Z armor vs R attack)?
need # of hits breakdown, yea. It's a lot easier to understand and more applicable to a game than unit efficiency.
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TossFloss
Canada585 Posts
On March 22 2010 05:12 CharlieMurphy wrote:
the chart is really confusing, I don't understand your explanation either.
so something like this:
Roach vs (-/+0)Zealot 11.11% 12.50% 0.00%
is broken down into this:
Roach vs (no R armor upg/no Z attack upg) Zealot. level 1 Z attack= 11% better, lvl 2 Z attack= 12% better, lvl 3 Z attack = worthless.
Or is it levels for armor upgrades? Or do I have them backwards all together (Z armor vs R attack)?
need # of hits breakdown, yea. It's a lot easier to understand and more applicable to a game than unit efficiency.
Hi. Sorry for the poor explanation.
For the attack analysis table:
- Attacker's attack upgrade increases moving across rows from left to right.
- Defender's armor upgrade increases moving down columns from top to bottom.
For the armor analysis table:
- Defender's armor upgrade increases moving across rows from left to right.
- Attacker's attack upgrade increases moving down columns from top to bottom.
Will put up # of hits breakdown soon.
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Interesting, hits would also be appreciated!
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TossFloss
Canada585 Posts
Added # number of hits charts for each matchup.
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Awesome, this data will affect my play style for sure.
Battlecuiser stats are missing tho, i would love to see the armor/damage upgrade difference.
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It shouldn't be
+ Show Spoiler +ARMOR ANALYSIS lv1 lv2 lv3
+0 Zealot vs Roach: 18.18% 26.67% 31.58%
+1 Zealot vs Roach: 15.38% 18.18% 26.67%
+2 Zealot vs Roach: 11.11% 15.38% 18.18%
+3 Zealot vs Roach: 10.00% 11.11% 15.38%
instead of
+ Show Spoiler +ARMOR ANALYSIS lv1 lv2 lv3
+0 Zealot vs Roach: 15.38% 26.67% 31.58%
+1 Zealot vs Roach: 18.18% 15.38% 26.67%
+2 Zealot vs Roach: 10.00% 18.18% 15.38%
+3 Zealot vs Roach: 11.11% 10.00% 18.18%
?
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TossFloss
Canada585 Posts
On March 22 2010 06:53 Golondrin wrote:It shouldn't be + Show Spoiler +ARMOR ANALYSIS lv1 lv2 lv3
+0 Zealot vs Roach: 18.18% 26.67% 31.58%
+1 Zealot vs Roach: 15.38% 18.18% 26.67%
+2 Zealot vs Roach: 11.11% 15.38% 18.18%
+3 Zealot vs Roach: 10.00% 11.11% 15.38% instead of + Show Spoiler +ARMOR ANALYSIS lv1 lv2 lv3
+0 Zealot vs Roach: 15.38% 26.67% 31.58%
+1 Zealot vs Roach: 18.18% 15.38% 26.67%
+2 Zealot vs Roach: 10.00% 18.18% 15.38%
+3 Zealot vs Roach: 11.11% 10.00% 18.18% ?
The original is correct.
To understand why, have a look at the equivalent raw # of hits chart.
################ lvl0 lvl1 lvl2 lvl3
+0 Zealot vs Roach: 13 15 19 25
+1 Zealot vs Roach: 11 13 15 19
+2 Zealot vs Roach: 10 11 13 15
+3 Zealot vs Roach: 9 10 11 13
In the first row a +0 zealot kills a -/+0 roach in 13 hits. Getting the +1 armor upgrade increase that to 15 hits. So it takes 15/13 = 15.38% more hits to kill the roach.
Looking at the second row: a +1 zealot kills a -/+0 roach in 11 hits. Getting the +1 armor upgrade increases that to 13 hits. So now your +1 roaches are 13/11 = 18.18% more effective than without the +1 armor upgrade.
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interesting, blings are one of the only (maybe the only) unit to end up doing more damage when both sides are fulled upped (most just equal out).
spoke too soon, roaches & ultras too!
edit- is this because there is no shield armor taken into consideration?
edit- I found a problem, it says that corruptors are n/a vs collosus, but collosus can be attacked by both ground and air units. Dang, this was one of the important ones too imo.
Air Attack: 12 (+1)
+10 (+1) Damage against Massive.
Armor: 2 (+1)
200/150
Armor: 1 (+1)
double damn, this thing http://sc2calc.net23.net/ doesn't have all the zerg units (missing corruptor/broodlords/broodlings/banelings and maybe some other?)
quick math on corruptors vs no up collosus
upgrades: 0 1 2 3
hits: 16 15 14 13
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I think there might be something wrong with the marine vs mutalisk in ZvT hit chart too.
and marine vs broodlords.
yea and then the marine(shield) is all N/A too vs mutas and imbalords.
interesting that mutalisk are better AA over Corruptors vs banshee and viking.
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Is there any way to account for splash in these?
IE, a Siege Mode tank kills a Marine in 1 hit regardless of anyone's upgrades, but maybe tank attack reduces hits for nearby Marines from 3 to 2, or something. Do we even have a way of knowing what the Tank's damage is at what range from primary target?
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On March 22 2010 08:15 pure.Wasted wrote:
Is there any way to account for splash in these?
IE, a Siege Mode tank kills a Marine in 1 hit regardless of anyone's upgrades, but maybe tank attack reduces hits for nearby Marines from 3 to 2, or something. Do we even have a way of knowing what the Tank's damage is at what range from primary target?
That kinda stuff requires micro/positioning and can't be accurately tested, and isn't really applicable data because it's very specific/situational. I mean you could even take it another step and say well in most ZvT they have marine/marauder and a tank doing splash. Each marine is 2 less hits and marauder is 1 less or whatever. It gets too complicated and messy trying to figure it all out.
Imagine trying to figure out broodlords and broodlings damage output considering normal factors.
For these things, you just need to playtest and get a feel for it.
BoT, Wow upgrades for roaches vs hydras are very important. They both kill each other around 8~9 seconds and an attack upgrade from the hydra beats a roach, but an armor or attack beats a hydra again.
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Useful, a thing like that should be added to Liquipedia II.
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TossFloss
Canada585 Posts
On March 22 2010 08:08 CharlieMurphy wrote:
I think there might be something wrong with the marine vs mutalisk in ZvT hit chart too.
and marine vs broodlords.
yea and then the marine(shield) is all N/A too vs mutas and imbalords.
interesting that mutalisk are better AA over Corruptors vs banshee and viking.
Thanks a lot.
There was a mistake in the unit stats database. The marine's was doing x6 attacks to air units o_O. Fixing the charts now.
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EPT
