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I dunno, I see it being pretty viable against Zerg and hit or miss against Terran.
Given that Terran can just scan your base for tech, you'll have a pretty hard time convincing him you've got colossi early on when he just scanned your council/archives.
It just seems to me like you'd need some pretty unconventional building placement to prevent this from happening.
For scouting purposed early on, this is definitely worth it. Being able to spawn two phoenixes for a grand total of 200/300 (and noting that you'd want these two sentries anyway) versus 450/350 (stargate+2 phoenices, which you'd only want if the matchup allowed for it), I'd say it's a safe bet.
Especially in conjunction with templar tech. Fast teching to council and archives means you won't be able to get observers quickly. A quick 100/100 research can give you your map intelligence back..with the added benefit of maybe fooling the opponent.
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I've been using it when I go colossus both to scare my opponent into thinking I have more than I do and so that he target fires hallucinations instead of them. It works nicely.
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On March 22 2010 19:01 DarQraven wrote:
For scouting purposed early on, this is definitely worth it. Being able to spawn two phoenixes for a grand total of 200/300 (and noting that you'd want these two sentries anyway) versus 450/350 (stargate+2 phoenices, which you'd only want if the matchup allowed for it), I'd say it's a safe bet.
Well, an observer would just be 200/100 + 35/75 (little unsure of the mineral cost).
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On March 21 2010 15:03 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2010 14:37 CharlieMurphy wrote:
the problem with hallucinate is that it's luck based. A) he wastes some spells on it, B) He sees your overwhelming force and concedes, or C) he targets the fakes and takes more damage from the real stuff.
With the cost of the spell, time, and the unit to cast it, your 90% of the time better off just making the real unit in the first place.
And if you already have the sentries, then you're probably better off using force block or shield in a battle. If Protoss was less reaction based as a race it would be more viable, i.e. if there were more strategies that protoss could employ that cause the other races to make a response to that strategy it would work better. The only case where it might work atm is faking a void ray rush vs zerg forcing him to make hydra (however, since the rays won't do damage this probably won't work lol). Faking immortals might be able to score you some time against Roaches - but you'd probably want the mana for guardian shield. The basic problem is that Sentries have two amazing spells and combine this with the research cost for hallu and the limited use for it, it's kinda something you would generally avoid. If some alterations to the mechanic (like making it do damage) were made and you moved the spell to something like the Nexus this would be so much more viable. Especially since after a while you forget to CB things and giving you the option of hallu increases diversity (cue decision making argument). I dno... so yea - move hallu to somewhere else (nexus!!) - make hallucinations do damage or something
if you have a good amount of sentries you have enough mana for a ton of force field and for 2-3 guardian shields to cover your army ez though imo.
On March 21 2010 21:29 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
I like hallucination, but if you have 8 colossus 4 real 4 fake, and terran is aiming the fake ones when he scans the bunch, the units automatically target the real ones. It makes hallucination a lot less useful because all he has to do is just scan in big battles and his units will ignore them.
jesus well thats kinda stupid, way to take more skill out of the game, blizzard.
I was wondering if people who scan/with observers actually see which are hallucinations just by looking at them (transparency or whatever) or if you have to select them or something but autoignoring the hallucinations thats pretty damnnn stupid.
Ugh seriously why dumb the game down like that
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On March 21 2010 07:36 zLnoEk wrote:
It would be pretty funny if you used it to make your army look huge! then don't show him any of your sentries when you attack so he doesn't realize as easily that they're hallucinations. Then, with a little psychological attack like "GG NOOB" or "YOU HAZ NO CHANCE", he might leave the game before he realizes they're fakes xD
if you use sentry to "make your army looks huge" probably you need a lot of sentry...but if you "don't show him any of yor sentries" when you attack probably you are simply sending your units to suicide because sentry would be big part of fire power
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On March 22 2010 20:38 Gigaudas wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2010 19:01 DarQraven wrote:
For scouting purposed early on, this is definitely worth it. Being able to spawn two phoenixes for a grand total of 200/300 (and noting that you'd want these two sentries anyway) versus 450/350 (stargate+2 phoenices, which you'd only want if the matchup allowed for it), I'd say it's a safe bet.
Well, an observer would just be 200/100 + 35/75 (little unsure of the mineral cost).
If you're going robo, yes. Observers are obviously a better scout.
However, like I mentioned in my post, what if you're going Templar? (however unlikely, though, with the current balance)
Plopping down a 200/200 building and two 25/75 units just for scouting puts you pretty behind in terms of army size.
edit: Something popped into my head just now. Can we fake the abilities of hallucinated units? Say I hallucinate a couple of sentries, can I use them to show the Guardian shield visual, even though nothing is actually happening? I'm going to try out. Probably not.
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sc:bw unit AI also pretty much autoignores hallucinations unless there aren't any real units in range. IIRC it has to do with the fact the targeting AI "knows" these units cause zero damage and thus they are given the lowest targeting priority. Just like HT's always get targeted last when they're mixed with some zealot/goon.
Funny that no one complained about this in sc:bw. But then again, hardly anyone ever used hallu for serious games in the first place.
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Wait wait, units do NOT target hallucinations if they are detected or have low targeting priority....maybe it can be used somehow......
For example, a hallucinated zeal wall against ultra-ling, where they get blocked without attacking because of targeting priority.
Against terran, it can be used as a "fast moving forcefield" to trap armies since they don't get shot at if detected and the armies engaged.
It is not as good as plain tanking in most cases, but there might be fun stuff possible....
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In almost all cases using a Hallucination is like a worse forcefield. Or an expensive scout (150/150 research cost and the energy of two forcefields) If you have plenty Sentries just spam the shit out of your forcefields. In fact forcefields are one of two things I personally believe to be rather broken atm (the other being stim+marauders... high hitpoint units with slow shouldn't be able to move that fast for a mere 10 hp cost).
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On March 22 2010 20:59 7mk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2010 21:29 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
I like hallucination, but if you have 8 colossus 4 real 4 fake, and terran is aiming the fake ones when he scans the bunch, the units automatically target the real ones. It makes hallucination a lot less useful because all he has to do is just scan in big battles and his units will ignore them. jesus well thats kinda stupid, way to take more skill out of the game, blizzard. I was wondering if people who scan/with observers actually see which are hallucinations just by looking at them (transparency or whatever) or if you have to select them or something but autoignoring the hallucinations thats pretty damnnn stupid. Ugh seriously why dumb the game down like that
I really think they kind of had to do this. For example, I was playing a guy who hallucinated 4-6 collosus and they practically stood over top of his army, which makes it near impossible to even see let alone click his army underneath it. So if they took out the auto targeting (with detection) the ability would become quite op.
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On March 22 2010 21:24 DarQraven wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2010 20:38 Gigaudas wrote:On March 22 2010 19:01 DarQraven wrote:
For scouting purposed early on, this is definitely worth it. Being able to spawn two phoenixes for a grand total of 200/300 (and noting that you'd want these two sentries anyway) versus 450/350 (stargate+2 phoenices, which you'd only want if the matchup allowed for it), I'd say it's a safe bet.
Well, an observer would just be 200/100 + 35/75 (little unsure of the mineral cost). If you're going robo, yes. Observers are obviously a better scout. However, like I mentioned in my post, what if you're going Templar? (however unlikely, though, with the current balance) Plopping down a 200/200 building and two 25/75 units just for scouting puts you pretty behind in terms of army size. edit: Something popped into my head just now. Can we fake the abilities of hallucinated units? Say I hallucinate a couple of sentries, can I use them to show the Guardian shield visual, even though nothing is actually happening? I'm going to try out. Probably not.
The robotics facility costs 100 gas, not 200.
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100 energy is still too much.
It's almost always better to just spam forcefields and trap units than rely on your opponent's reaction..
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On March 22 2010 20:38 Gigaudas wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2010 19:01 DarQraven wrote:
For scouting purposed early on, this is definitely worth it. Being able to spawn two phoenixes for a grand total of 200/300 (and noting that you'd want these two sentries anyway) versus 450/350 (stargate+2 phoenices, which you'd only want if the matchup allowed for it), I'd say it's a safe bet.
Well, an observer would just be 200/100 + 35/75 (little unsure of the mineral cost).
All mineral and gas costs are multiples of 25, just like in BW
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On March 21 2010 15:42 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2010 15:36 -orb- wrote:
I've used this many times.
It's now actually part of my standard play versus terran. In what way?
Orb, who in the one game I played against in ladder and seriously outskilled me more than any other match I've played in beta(and I assume it is the same orb), went heavy T1.5 matching my 3 rax pressure with zeal and sentry, used hallucinate to scout, letting him transition to templar tech without having to go robo first for observer. Looking back I should have gone for only two rax pressure and teched faster, but knowing that in hindsight is always easier.
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On March 22 2010 22:55 katzenkoenig wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2010 21:24 DarQraven wrote:On March 22 2010 20:38 Gigaudas wrote:On March 22 2010 19:01 DarQraven wrote:
For scouting purposed early on, this is definitely worth it. Being able to spawn two phoenixes for a grand total of 200/300 (and noting that you'd want these two sentries anyway) versus 450/350 (stargate+2 phoenices, which you'd only want if the matchup allowed for it), I'd say it's a safe bet.
Well, an observer would just be 200/100 + 35/75 (little unsure of the mineral cost). If you're going robo, yes. Observers are obviously a better scout. However, like I mentioned in my post, what if you're going Templar? (however unlikely, though, with the current balance) Plopping down a 200/200 building and two 25/75 units just for scouting puts you pretty behind in terms of army size. edit: Something popped into my head just now. Can we fake the abilities of hallucinated units? Say I hallucinate a couple of sentries, can I use them to show the Guardian shield visual, even though nothing is actually happening? I'm going to try out. Probably not. The robotics facility costs 100 gas, not 200.
Damn, you're right. Better let SC2armory know they've got outdated/wrong stats on their website -_-
Still though, that's 100 gas less needed, but I feel my point still applies. 100/100 Research and a couple of units you've already got anyway are all you need for scouting, versus 200/100 and paying for your scouts. At least in the period between a terran wall-off and when they start expanding.
I guess it depends, like other posters have said, on the speed of energy regen by sentries and the relative loss in abilities like forcefield or guardian.
Also, no. Hallucinating sentries and making them cast guardian shield doesn't work, apparently, because one can't hallucinate sentries. D'oh.
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I enjoy sending hallucinations to buzz by a base to make them think I have tech I don't. I've most used this to fly by a relatively large force of hallucinated air units while my army remained entirely ground. People overreact when they see five phoenix, that's for sure.
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Funny people haven't noticed the most obvious one of them all  remember a little while ago people whined about probes being autotargeted. Ye thats right each illusion cast by one of your many sentries will give you 4 aim targets for your opponent that he will kill before zealots or anything else. I've used sentries succesfully where I've created a huge army of probes infront of my real army soaking all the damage they've done to my army. This beats any other illusions as longs as they don't have detect. Even if they have detect, you will have a wall of anoiance 
Edit:
Just forgot another advantage. When probe illusions are at front, and they have detect. I believe their units out of range will fire upon illusion probes instead of doing auto suround. Well all in all it works wonders when you have 5 or more sentries with full mana.
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I can't possible imagine how spending 100 energy on getting a probe is more effective than two force fields. You must really suck at using force field.
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On March 22 2010 18:35 BentoBox wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2010 21:29 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
I like hallucination, but if you have 8 colossus 4 real 4 fake, and terran is aiming the fake ones when he scans the bunch, the units automatically target the real ones. It makes hallucination a lot less useful because all he has to do is just scan in big battles and his units will ignore them. ` Does the T player have any reason to scan over your army in the first place?
hallucination.... =D
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Do they still vanish when EMPed?
I guess it will be quite worthless against Ghost teching terran then.
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EPT
