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On March 21 2010 11:41 Karas wrote:
I've experimented with it for a couple of ideas:
1) Immortal Shields: Hallued Immortals still retain their hardened shields, meaning against the big guns they only take 20 damage...so even a hallued immortal can last a while. My experience has been mixed so far, many times I would rather have 2 forcefields.
2) Phoenix vs Muta: A common toss build order is to start with zeal/sentry as a general defense against ling/roach and then tech to phoenix to counter muta. We all know that while phoenix can take on muta in rough equal numbers, it can be hard when zerg is powering them. A few halloed phoenix can give your air army those precious few seconds to whittle down the muta. And if nothing else, the halu can take some of the splash damage....just like zerg used overlords with their muta in SCI vs enemy muta. So far I've had decent success with this, the careful thing is to balance the initial gas cost of the hallu. I don't want to be researching hallu and not getting more phoenix.
3) Hallued Collossus: If hallu can save even one collossus its worth its weight in gold.
I thought the overlord was just to help the mutas stack...
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On March 21 2010 08:37 Viruuus wrote:
seriously, making phoenixes to scout, or fake colossi or immortals can me so nice.
Faking like 2 Immortals for a timing push vs zerg, but then having almost only zealots and sentries, would own e.g.
Same goes for faking colossi, or just doubling your army size with some extra hits to take in it.
Its also good if you really have colossi to make it alot harder for infestors e.g. to know which one to mindcontrol
This could counter a hydra+roach+infestor push nicely, especially since zerg can't always get an overseer close enough to detect the fake colossi. (without getting the OL sniped)
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On March 21 2010 13:38 rackdude wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2010 11:41 Karas wrote:
I've experimented with it for a couple of ideas:
1) Immortal Shields: Hallued Immortals still retain their hardened shields, meaning against the big guns they only take 20 damage...so even a hallued immortal can last a while. My experience has been mixed so far, many times I would rather have 2 forcefields.
2) Phoenix vs Muta: A common toss build order is to start with zeal/sentry as a general defense against ling/roach and then tech to phoenix to counter muta. We all know that while phoenix can take on muta in rough equal numbers, it can be hard when zerg is powering them. A few halloed phoenix can give your air army those precious few seconds to whittle down the muta. And if nothing else, the halu can take some of the splash damage....just like zerg used overlords with their muta in SCI vs enemy muta. So far I've had decent success with this, the careful thing is to balance the initial gas cost of the hallu. I don't want to be researching hallu and not getting more phoenix.
3) Hallued Collossus: If hallu can save even one collossus its worth its weight in gold. I thought the overlord was just to help the mutas stack...
True, but it does work as he mentioned as well. For example, putting turrets or depots in your mineral line makes mutas far less effective as the buildings seem to have high priority to soak up the splash hits.
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the problem with hallucinate is that it's luck based. A) he wastes some spells on it, B) He sees your overwhelming force and concedes, or C) he targets the fakes and takes more damage from the real stuff.
With the cost of the spell, time, and the unit to cast it, your 90% of the time better off just making the real unit in the first place.
And if you already have the sentries, then you're probably better off using force block or shield in a battle.
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Think of the EMP you could eat with a bunch of Hallucinate : P omg the HT are coming in from emp wait a min !
Storm RAWR lol
Hallucinate could be cool lol
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On March 21 2010 14:37 CharlieMurphy wrote:
the problem with hallucinate is that it's luck based. A) he wastes some spells on it, B) He sees your overwhelming force and concedes, or C) he targets the fakes and takes more damage from the real stuff.
With the cost of the spell, time, and the unit to cast it, your 90% of the time better off just making the real unit in the first place.
And if you already have the sentries, then you're probably better off using force block or shield in a battle.
If Protoss was less reaction based as a race it would be more viable, i.e. if there were more strategies that protoss could employ that cause the other races to make a response to that strategy it would work better. The only case where it might work atm is faking a void ray rush vs zerg forcing him to make hydra (however, since the rays won't do damage this probably won't work lol). Faking immortals might be able to score you some time against Roaches - but you'd probably want the mana for guardian shield.
The basic problem is that Sentries have two amazing spells and combine this with the research cost for hallu and the limited use for it, it's kinda something you would generally avoid.
If some alterations to the mechanic (like making it do damage) were made and you moved the spell to something like the Nexus this would be so much more viable. Especially since after a while you forget to CB things and giving you the option of hallu increases diversity (cue decision making argument). I dno... so yea
- move hallu to somewhere else (nexus!!)
- make hallucinations do damage or something
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it does not need dmg or to be move don't attack with them just do a opps my force were seen omg i got to counter those lol.
Or tossing in more colo to focus down even 2 into a cluster gives you tones of free dmg time when he trys to focus them
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I've used this many times.
It's now actually part of my standard play versus terran.
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its a sexy spell
nice way to scout and fake tech
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The best thing about hallucination (especially on colossi) is the fact that unlike in sc1, hallucinations don't vanish when EMP hits them. They just lose their shield like a normal unit.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On March 21 2010 15:36 -orb- wrote:
I've used this many times.
It's now actually part of my standard play versus terran.
In what way?
On March 21 2010 15:38 StorrZerg wrote:
its a sexy spell
nice way to scout and fake tech
What tech are you going to fake?
On March 21 2010 13:52 P00RKID wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2010 08:37 Viruuus wrote:
seriously, making phoenixes to scout, or fake colossi or immortals can me so nice.
Faking like 2 Immortals for a timing push vs zerg, but then having almost only zealots and sentries, would own e.g.
Same goes for faking colossi, or just doubling your army size with some extra hits to take in it.
Its also good if you really have colossi to make it alot harder for infestors e.g. to know which one to mindcontrol This could counter a hydra+roach+infestor push nicely, especially since zerg can't always get an overseer close enough to detect the fake colossi. (without getting the OL sniped)
Would you rather have a hallucination that "might" soak a neural parasite or a guardian shield which will give you +2 armor vs that army composition?
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On March 21 2010 15:03 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2010 14:37 CharlieMurphy wrote:
the problem with hallucinate is that it's luck based. A) he wastes some spells on it, B) He sees your overwhelming force and concedes, or C) he targets the fakes and takes more damage from the real stuff.
With the cost of the spell, time, and the unit to cast it, your 90% of the time better off just making the real unit in the first place.
And if you already have the sentries, then you're probably better off using force block or shield in a battle. If Protoss was less reaction based as a race it would be more viable, i.e. if there were more strategies that protoss could employ that cause the other races to make a response to that strategy it would work better. The only case where it might work atm is faking a void ray rush vs zerg forcing him to make hydra (however, since the rays won't do damage this probably won't work lol). Faking immortals might be able to score you some time against Roaches - but you'd probably want the mana for guardian shield. The basic problem is that Sentries have two amazing spells and combine this with the research cost for hallu and the limited use for it, it's kinda something you would generally avoid. If some alterations to the mechanic (like making it do damage) were made and you moved the spell to something like the Nexus this would be so much more viable. Especially since after a while you forget to CB things and giving you the option of hallu increases diversity (cue decision making argument). I dno... so yea - move hallu to somewhere else (nexus!!) - make hallucinations do damage or something
It would be interesting, if units were acting as if they were taking damage, but when the hallucination is killed or runs out the damage is returned back to the unit.
But, then it get's complicated if hallucinations are attacking with real units, There would have to be some hidden REAL current HP that is overriding. So, a unit would make it to 1 hp and then wouldn't die or take anymore damage.
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On March 21 2010 15:42 Plexa wrote:
This could counter a hydra+roach+infestor push nicely, especially since zerg can't always get an overseer close enough to detect the fake colossi. (without getting the OL sniped)
Would you rather have a hallucination that "might" soak a neural parasite or a guardian shield which will give you +2 armor vs that army composition?[/QUOTE]
Thing is you don't have to choose, there's no reason you can't have both.
If you build a decent amount of sentries....which I commonly due vs zerg, then you can activate the guardian shield off of one and still have hallus from the others.
To me its ultimately a question of whether I would rather have some new tanks with hallu or more force fields...and that is a situational question.
I think the idea of using them to scout is also a great idea.
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faking voidray tech is definetely not very good against anyone decent, but faking immortals e.g. and then building only colossi would work really well vs zerg, since his unit mix to counter immortals gets eaten alive by colossi. Especially it slows down the tech that is needed to kill colossi efficiently alot (that would be corruptors).
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Haha I tried sentries hallucinate. I made some zealot and stalkers and attacked in front of T's wall. At the same time I brought two hallucinated colossus in terran's SCV, when he saw it he said "GG" and leaved xD.
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I usually fake 4 archons on a semi early push just to help with meat shields. they work great too since people see archons vs MMM and worry about their +bio dmg so they focus them down.
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I like hallucination, but if you have 8 colossus 4 real 4 fake, and terran is aiming the fake ones when he scans the bunch, the units automatically target the real ones. It makes hallucination a lot less useful because all he has to do is just scan in big battles and his units will ignore them.
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I don't have the beta but I saw a stream where the guy(forgot his name) teched (almost)straight to hallucination and went mass stalker/sentry/hallucination. He hallucinated 8 immortals vs a zerg going mass roach and the zerg lost a battle where(before he saw immortals) he thought he would win but then he saw immortals and tried to focus-fire them down first and he got fucked because he never saw the puff of smoke from when the immortals died as he was going between focus-fire and macro really fast. Then he got his drones stuck behind force fields that were around the mineral line and he lost all of his drones at his natural and left. It was pretty funny because then the opponent posted a vod of the rep on youtube and then he started getting really annoyed as he realized that he lost because of hallucinations. Then he ended the vod with, and this is why sentries are imba.
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On March 21 2010 21:29 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
I like hallucination, but if you have 8 colossus 4 real 4 fake, and terran is aiming the fake ones when he scans the bunch, the units automatically target the real ones. It makes hallucination a lot less useful because all he has to do is just scan in big battles and his units will ignore them.
Is this confirmed? I mean the fact that if I have my overseer in the mix that they will auto target the real units over the fake ones?
Also, anything else to help give this ability away? The guy I just fought absolutely juked me hard with these as he did the hallucination before his army was in front of me. Say my overseer isnt there in the first place, anything to give it away? (Besides common sense knowing that there is no way in hell he could of had an army that size that early) One thing I caught though was the puff of smoke after it died. I've never seen this spell used before so I didn't think anything of it.
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On March 21 2010 21:29 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
I like hallucination, but if you have 8 colossus 4 real 4 fake, and terran is aiming the fake ones when he scans the bunch, the units automatically target the real ones. It makes hallucination a lot less useful because all he has to do is just scan in big battles and his units will ignore them.
`
Does the T player have any reason to scan over your army in the first place?
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EPT
