[M][4] Destiny Isle

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sTYleZerG-eX

Mexico473 Posts

June 18 2015 17:57 GMT

--- Destiny Isle ---

MAP IS PUBLISHED IN:

NA, EU, KR

Map Size (Playable) 156 x 156

So yeah... I give you a 4 sawn location 2 player ISLAND MAP!
UP DATE!

OVERVIEW:

90:

+ Show Spoiler +

ANALYZER:

+ Show Spoiler +

EYE CANDY:

+ Show Spoiler +

BASES:

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OUT DATED
Main:
Main is pretty straight forward, but it has a little vision impediment zone where units can be hidden, secretly droped, or secret tech can be hidden like in the Wings of liberty classic map Metalopolis (There is roughly the space for a gateway and 2 pylons)
(All those high grounds with a black texture will not allow units, they will eventually be coverd with doodads)

[image loading]

Nat:
Nat is standard, but it is very vulnerable to harras and drops, because there is a long patch of terrain behind it (I want to encourage drop play, this might help deal with protoss)
[image loading]

3rd:
3rd is very close to main and has a creep tumour blocking it, IT DOES NOT BLOCK THE HATCHERY, but it will delay P and T an expo. This was added for 2 reasons, 1) Z is in theory the less favoured race on islands. So I wanted to give them a little bonus 2) Creep can't get to the low ground unless there is a ramp, or there is creep already there, and I think that not to be able to spread creep early game gives Z a real disadvantage. So this fixes the problem.

[image loading]

4th:
A straight up island expo, but it will be cliffable. Again encourage drop and harass play.
[image loading]

Middle:
In the middle there is another island base, but this one has 9 gold mineral patches, and 3 rich gases, so holding this could be a path to victory, but the base is extremely vulnerable, not only is it on the middle of the map, but it also is and will be cliffable from 4 different locations.
Middle also has 4 watch towers and is very very large and open, so having control of this, and some ground army is worth your while.

[image loading]

So I tried looking, and asking people and Island maps where no place to be found, at least none that are standardish.
I truly think island maps are something that should be experimented upon, I think it would help the game in many levels for example, Balance: trying the units in different situations (like island maps) can help reveal certain aspects of the game that could not be witnessed in standard situations (ground maps) come to light.

Just keep in mined that Broodwar had several professional Island maps (I can give a list of this if someone is interested) and many of them produced some truly EPIC games.

I really think that at some point sc2 will see island maps, and I think the time is near..

Map as always is still unfinished, I want to make sure that I get the core lay out right before making map all nice and pretty. This will make it easier for me to apply your suggestions on map, and not make me work double.

I would also like to discuss balance, build orders and unit compositions for this map (The goal is to make a standard island macro oriented map after all, /or something close to it/ and serve as a reference for future maps, if possible)
So.. yeah Phoenix and ZvP main concern?
What are your thoughts on ZvT, PvT, ZvZ, TvT, PvP?
What standard builds for island play need to be developed?

Plz and thank you for posting your thoughts/criticism and opinions!

Scouting:
Scouting will be crucial on these type of maps, because cheese could also be a thing, so you want to be careful.

+ Show Spoiler +

Zerg:
1) Ovies can scout early 2) There are plenty of ovie spots around the main and nat to get a good peek for what opponents are doing. 3)Ovie speed is a good upgrade to get early on, it will get you good info, and will serve you later on when you probably get drop tech.

Terran:
1) You can scan 2) Lift a rax and scout - why not? (You need to see what P is doing) 3) Reaper scout

Protoss:
1) Mother ship 2) Hallucination 3) Fenix/Oracle 4) Observer

Remember its and island main and nat so tech almost certainly has to be somewhere there. Now on the mains and nat islands there is a large amount of space, for example on the little corners behind the nats, or on the little vision impediment zone in the mains.

Rukis

United States252 Posts

June 18 2015 21:51 GMT

Terran will without a doubt CC first or "fe" and float to gold. imo

Quidios

Sweden74 Posts

June 18 2015 22:06 GMT

I have been thinking about island maps and I think the main issue is that T and P can match Z economy too easily. T/P can instantly take their nat without having to worry about defending. Combine that with Z having a much later third than they normally would and it's a big balance issue.

But I don't think the solution would be to make the third easier. I think the nat would have to be blocked by creep made by a neutral zerg building so that Z gets a headstart on the economy.
I think a destructible neutral zerg building would be better than a neutral creep tumor because it would take more than one scan/cannon to expand and I think Z needs a little bit more of a headstart than that.
I don't know exactly how much hp the neutral zerg building should have but I'd guess around 750/500. It might have to be balanced around the 2 base muta timing and what state the T/P is in at that point.

But that's just the basics. I havn't thought much about TvP or if any race's air composition would be too unbeatable.

sTYleZerG-eX

Mexico473 Posts

June 19 2015 01:25 GMT

Thank you for comments guys!

On June 19 2015 06:51 Rukis wrote:
Terran will without a doubt CC first or "fe" and float to gold. imo

Float to gold off 1 base? Wow seems really risky I mean if it goes unscouted maybe, but zerg should see a floating cc with the first 2/3 ovies, and if you do see it, it should be easy to punish. In T v P how ever if P decides not 2 scout like many P do so in TvP, gold float could pay off, but I don't see a problem with that, P should be punished if they dont scout, safe P players should scout with their Mshipcore, and see this coming, or some soart of robo/stargate scout should still see this in time. But im fine with punishing Ptoss, because ive been tolled its likely the most broken race in island maps.

Im not sure, 14cc yeah could be an option, but it would depend on the meta right? I play T, and I think my first picks vs z would be reaper fe or 2 rax reaper (I think 2 rax reaper might be a nice cheesy go2 build). But if meta expects the reaper all the time, yeah maybe 14cc. And I would definitely open reaper vs P, they having so many options vs you. They could 2 name a few: 4/5 robo gate you, 15 nexus you, DT drop you, Oracle, Blink... and I would like to try to see this coming. (I was thinking about adding a second reaper path to the nat 4 second reaper scout, what do you think?)

@Quidios
Yeah I agree with you, "T/P can instantly take their nat without having to worry about defending." its true the only cheesy builds I can think about are nydus, or 1 base muta, but they can be so easely countered, specially 1 base mutas its just such a bad build. (Nydus being the stronger of the 2)
I also agree that a fast easy 3rd is not the solution.
A neutral zerg bulding blocking nat, interesting idea, I think I will have to test both options, nat as is, and nat with neutral building. But I would like a second opinion on this nat issue if possible.
Still the creep tumor at the third should stay regardless becuase of what I mention on the post about early game creep spread (In the BASES section)

Meerel

Germany713 Posts

June 19 2015 01:47 GMT

i dont really have to say something but i kinda like your enthusiasm coming from bw to sc2. asking alot and trying new things.
i hope you dont get discouraged when no one really replies in our chat, i think our mental state towards mapping is a little bit different then yours.
i think most people map only for tlmc and dont really care otherwise. doesnt matter how good your map is, no one will play it, not even once. its just another one.

so thats why i dont have to say much because i feel the same, and its kinda sad to see someone who clearly gets exited about mapping to fall on deaf ears. sorry i guess

edit: btw i like your mappingstyle, clearly shows that you are from bw. i also try to use those features in my maps, so yeah!

Quidios

Sweden74 Posts

June 19 2015 02:28 GMT

On June 19 2015 10:25 sTYleZerG-eX wrote:
A neutral zerg bulding blocking nat, interesting idea

Just to be clear, I meant that the zerg building would be placed next to the nat and the creep from that building would cover the area where you put your cc/nexus, but Z can still expand freely.

I think island maps definitely worth experimenting with, so keep at it.

sTYleZerG-eX

Mexico473 Posts

June 19 2015 02:56 GMT

@Quidios
Cheers! yeah yeah I got you.

On June 19 2015 10:47 Meerel wrote:
i dont really have to say something but i kinda like your enthusiasm coming from bw to sc2. asking alot and trying new things.
i hope you dont get discouraged when no one really replies in our chat, i think our mental state towards mapping is a little bit different then yours.
i think most people map only for tlmc and dont really care otherwise. doesnt matter how good your map is, no one will play it, not even once. its just another one.

so thats why i dont have to say much because i feel the same, and its kinda sad to see someone who clearly gets exited about mapping to fall on deaf ears. sorry i guess

edit: btw i like your mappingstyle, clearly shows that you are from bw. i also try to use those features in my maps, so yeah!

Ty for comment Meerel,
What is tlmc? And how (for future reference when/if I get decent at mapping) do i get my maps there?
"doesnt matter how good your map is, no one will play it, not even once"
Well that is not a big deal, already I see an improvement for sc2 map making, back in the day in broodwarmaps.net almost none of our maps saw any decent play, but we still made them. Now I see that community maps get played on ladder and on pro tournaments. IMO that is a big step.
I made more than 50 maps back in broodwar http://www.panschk.de/mappage/maplist.php?wauthor=sTY_leZerG-eX
Not many where played, but some did see some action, and others served as inspiration for other maps, example: the ladder map Nimbus, that was inspired by one of my designs http://www.panschk.de/mappage/comments.php?mapid=4077
And that was good enough 4 me.
So yeah the goal, is to get decent at sc2 mapping and eventually get a map on some tournament or maybe even ladder. I am aware it will not be with this map however, this is map is number 5 or 6 for me, and I was toled it takes like 30 maps to get good. (So im just crossing maps out from the chart,---- hopefully il get good b4 30 since I have made many many maps for broodwar)
However I still want to get a new idea out there, and make something decent out of this map. And hey maybe someone out there will give it a shot, after all its not like there is a long list of option for island play :D
Im glad you like my mapping style, and I do hope some people do reply in our chat. :D

SwedenTheKid

567 Posts

June 19 2015 04:08 GMT

This is so sad

unfortunately it's kinda true, but I mainly make maps just for artistic value and fun, so I don't have much to lose.

As for the map, I like it. Although I don't think a single creep tumor is going to cut it for Zerg. Maybe if there was creep blocking the natural, since Zerg wants to be at least one base ahead of the other races. Some aspects feel pretty bland, since it's an island map you can usually get away with some crazy ideas and layouts that would be totally imbalanced on a standard map. (Stuff like xel'naga towers with sight into the mains).

Fatam

1986 Posts

June 19 2015 04:18 GMT

i think most people map only for tlmc and dont really care otherwise. doesnt matter how good your map is, no one will play it, not even once. its just another one.

Yeah pretty much

I do think there's some merit to putting a couple maps out there gradually inbetween TLMCs, then getting what little feedback you get on the thread, letting the map sit on your mind for a while, then when TLMC comes around you have a couple maps already ready and you can just spend that time finetuning and maybe coming up with 1 more map if inspiration strikes.

FlaShFTW

United States10149 Posts

June 19 2015 04:24 GMT

#10

mass reaper op maybe? xD

Meerel

Germany713 Posts

June 19 2015 05:03 GMT

#11

tlmc is teamliquidmapcontest

sTYleZerG-eX

Mexico473 Posts

June 19 2015 05:21 GMT

#12

@Meerel
Happens when and how often and it will be in the Maps & Custom Game form?

Ingvar

Russian Federation421 Posts

June 19 2015 08:28 GMT

#13

On June 19 2015 14:21 sTYleZerG-eX wrote:
@Meerel
Happens when and how often and it will be in the Maps & Custom Game form?

TLMC 5
TLMC 6

It seems like it will now happen once per season to provide Blizzard with a number of community maps. All the new maps for Season 3 come from TLMC 6. Plexa should know for sure.

I don't see Destiny Isle as a ladder map but maybe you can get it to SHOUTcraft Clan Wars.

Jukado

805 Posts

June 19 2015 13:10 GMT

#14

sTYleZerG-eX
You are forgetting it was Meerel who converted (2)Flash
http://www.panschk.de/mappage/comments.php?mapid=3872
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-maps/474329-2-kp-trapped-under-ice

@Meerel, by the way did you end up having a go with the brood war editor?

sTYleZerG-eX

Mexico473 Posts

June 19 2015 17:14 GMT

#15

It seems like it will now happen once per season to provide Blizzard with a number of community maps. All the new maps for Season 3 come from TLMC 6. Plexa should know for sure.

I don't see Destiny Isle as a ladder map but maybe you can get it to SHOUTcraft Clan Wars.

Thanks for links and yeah, something like SHOUTcraft clan wars would be really ideal.

[B]On June 19 2015 22:10 CardinalAllin wrote:
sTYleZerG-eX
You are forgetting it was Meerel who converted (2)Flash
http://www.panschk.de/mappage/comments.php?mapid=3872
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-maps/474329-2-kp-trapped-under-ice
@Meerel, by the way did you end up having a go with the brood war editor?

OOOhhh I did not remember it was Meerel that had used my design idea :D
P.S. broodwar editor soooo much simpler, except for the fact that a lot of maps symmetry had to be done by hand.

Ok cool, so all agree there needs to be a neutral building (That spreads creep, but does not block hatch) blocking nat? (remember down side to this is that the building won't show on the mini map, and it might confuse players playing map for the first time)
ALL RIGHT! Blocker and doodad/deco/eye candy, coming right up!

sTYleZerG-eX

Mexico473 Posts

June 20 2015 22:34 GMT

#16

Ok UP DATE!

- Nat suggestion has now been added.
[image loading]

There now is the head of a nydus worm (Standard 200hp) blocking expo. The building does not block a hatchery (so Zerg will not be affected by this change), Protoss will be most affected of all, they will have to wait to destroy building and then wait quite a while for creep to reside in order to take expo (Phoenix, remember). Terran needs to destroy building, but can miss place expo, wait for creep, and then just lift (Gives you time to start the orbital).

- Eye candy has been added (Make sure to check that out on the main post)

- Map has been uploaded to NA, EU and KR

- Small changes have been added (The ones that happen when you look at your map for a long time and decide it's not quite right.. yet :D )

So what are your thoughts in this new sexy version of the map?
Ready for some island play?

Quidios

Sweden74 Posts

June 21 2015 00:17 GMT

#17

Nice update. First thing that I thought about with how the nat is structured, T might still fast expand and build their cc behind the nat minerals, to later float it over when the nydus is destroyed. This doesn't necessarily have to be a bad thing, but it should be examined in TvP especially.

The goldbase might have to be blocked by a 2x2 unbuildable bricks since it has so many patches, and it might be a nobrainer for T to FE there.

I'd love to see some games on this and see how it plays out.

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