Journey Overgrown is a 2 player map created using the Zerus tileset and mostly Zerus doodads. It's been a looooong time since I've created a map but with HotS out I just had to mess around with all the new features. I've spent many hours on this map and hope it was worth it.
Concerns: 1) Platform in the main base. I wanted it so you could use cliff walking units to protect that base easier if you take it as a 4th.
2) 3rd Base. Too easy? Too Hard? I think with the high ground above it that it helps hold it, but the choke is fairly large with many attack paths.
3) Doodads? Unsure if there are too many that it'll cause FPS loss.
4) Textures? I still want to play around with the textures to try to make them look nicer but I'm also going to be busy for a couple days so I just wanted to get it published.
@ first glance I think this is a pretty cool map. It has a couple features I like in maps (highground near nat. if done right can be really fun.. and highground harass hallways above critical bases that double as attack paths) and even though it has several features, it has a beautiful simplicity. Even the gold bases seem pretty well thought out and not imba
I wonder if it would be better or worse.. if there were 1 XNT on each lowground beneath the middle path.. rather than on the highground in the middle of the path. The southern one would be kind of where those zerus caves are. Not sure if that would be an improvement, but it's something that came into my head.
On March 24 2013 07:51 Veloh15 wrote: Looks like a fun map, will make sure to get my friends to have a few goes on it
If you play some games on it I'd love to get the replays of it! Hope you and your buds find it enjoyable!
On March 24 2013 07:52 Fatam wrote: @ first glance I think this is a pretty cool map. It has a couple features I like in maps (highground near nat. if done right can be really fun.. and highground harass hallways above critical bases that double as attack paths) and even though it has several features, it has a beautiful simplicity. Even the gold bases seem pretty well thought out and not imba
I wonder if it would be better or worse.. if there were 1 XNT on each lowground beneath the middle path.. rather than on the highground in the middle of the path. The southern one would be kind of where those zerus caves are. Not sure if that would be an improvement, but it's something that came into my head.
Thanks!
I've thought of the XWT as well and I was thinking of placing them almost in the same spot that you suggest. It's something that's up in the air though and will depend on feedback really. I think one of the reasons why I put just one in the middle was just because it gives vision to the fastest attack paths, yet if they go around the outside you won't see them coming. Although since it is slightly bigger of a map it might be better to include 2 XWT. Time will tell!
I like the main and natural structure, but I think the 3rd base is too hard to take for zerg. The gold is the closest but you would just die to an army on the high ground, while the other two bases are both far away and quite open. It would be reasonably easy to bottle the zerg up in his natural while you kill his 3rd base, particularly as protoss.
I think a good solution could be to make the high ground between the nat and the 3rd have a small ramp leading down into the 3rd base behind the minerals. It would make troop transfer for zergs much better while preserving the interesting defensive high ground location. Making it a small ramp would still allow protoss to cut the 3rd off from the bulk of the zerg army, but would make it harder to execute and require good multitasking.
EDIT: Problem with that solution is that it may be too easy for terran to set up a strong position to shell the natural with tanks. Will have to consider further.
This is cool. Has some problems. First though, the 3rd base is fine I think.
The gold needs to be blocked or zerg will have a field day. I think unbuildable rocks would be fine like ironman used recently. Doesn't have to be full 2000hp rocks, just enough to prevent taking it as a first expansion or a really fast 3rd.
The 4th base is too close and easy for my taste. It would be okay, sort of like Cloud Kingdom has a rather close and easy 4th base, but there it plays much more into map positioning where as here it's just an extension of having a decent army near your 3rd/4th.
I really don't like the base tucked under the backdoor platform of the main. Is it a 5th/6th for the player whose main that is? Otherwise you'll get your minerals shot up by your enemy... from their main. But if you take it for yourself, it's barely a separate area from their 4th. At the very least it should be moved into a position where the main can't shoot it, with increased ground distance to the base across the valley from it. Or, like this:
I think it'd be great as an island. Or, you could use some edited collapsible rocks to create a pathway from the main that can be permanently severed. Or something like the old BW maps with cloaked eggs making it a semi-island. Anyway that base sort of ruins the map (at least for me) and makes it look cluttered with resources and base locations.
Another option would be to add 4-12 squares in the horizontal dimension to separate those lowground bases. This would give you a little room to make the 4th more interesting / less automatic as well.
I really like the simplicity of this map. Lots of people are trying out crazy new ideas that make maps cluttered and confusing, but yours doesn't try anything too out-of-the-box. I approve of your decision to put a watchtower in the center of the map instead of two on the low ground so that units can move around on the low ground without being spotted. Having a single tower on this map just feels better than most alternatives I can think of.
The high ground between the natural and third is very well done. Mostly we see them as cool little features but aren't integrated into the map as well. Yours gives shape to the choke and has more of a purpose than just a little high ground section.
I'd be very happy to see a slightly more refined version of this in tournaments, well done!
When I finished with the overall layout of my map I was concerned that the 3rd might be too open :x lol. Most of those chokes are at least 3 force fields to block off and if you attack from the middle that's like 5 or 6. I "think" it should be alright but again, with HotS out who really knows.
I also had the same thought as you about adding a ramp from the high ground to the 3rd, but came to the same conclusion you did. Was worried it'd be too strong of a position for terran or protoss to camp up in to just completely crush both the 3rd and the natural.
@EatThePath & Antares
Yeah, I'll definitely have to add something at the golds, either rocks blocking the building placement or maybe rocks ontop of the minerals. It's something I probably should have put in but it slipped my mind. Agree completely on that.
The 4th does feel a little easy, but it's also extremely open and will force you to spread out a lot more. Especially with all the drop spots, high ground and other attack paths. Time will tell about it though. In my mind I think it's fine but with you and Antares thinking it'd be too easy I might have to change something up, we'll see!
It's funny that you two both think the base tucked away by the main seems out of place and honestly it was the last base I put in the map. I couldn't just have 4 bases + 1 gold for each player so I had to squeeze another full base in there, which then made me think of that backdoor platform to protect it / a place for the enemy to harass it. My thought behind it was that you could take that as a 4th IF you take the gold as your third because then you'd be kind of "boxed" in.
Maybe I'll do some tweaks, not publish it, but post the images here and see what some of the feedback is on it.
On March 24 2013 20:33 EatThePath wrote: This is cool. Has some problems. First though, the 3rd base is fine I think.
The gold needs to be blocked or zerg will have a field day. I think unbuildable rocks would be fine like ironman used recently. Doesn't have to be full 2000hp rocks, just enough to prevent taking it as a first expansion or a really fast 3rd.
The 4th base is too close and easy for my taste. It would be okay, sort of like Cloud Kingdom has a rather close and easy 4th base, but there it plays much more into map positioning where as here it's just an extension of having a decent army near your 3rd/4th.
I really don't like the base tucked under the backdoor platform of the main. Is it a 5th/6th for the player whose main that is? Otherwise you'll get your minerals shot up by your enemy... from their main. But if you take it for yourself, it's barely a separate area from their 4th. At the very least it should be moved into a position where the main can't shoot it, with increased ground distance to the base across the valley from it. Or, like this:
I think it'd be great as an island. Or, you could use some edited collapsible rocks to create a pathway from the main that can be permanently severed. Or something like the old BW maps with cloaked eggs making it a semi-island. Anyway that base sort of ruins the map (at least for me) and makes it look cluttered with resources and base locations.
Another option would be to add 4-12 squares in the horizontal dimension to separate those lowground bases. This would give you a little room to make the 4th more interesting / less automatic as well.
Hope this helps.
I don't know why the gold absolutely needs to be blocked. This isn't WOL where zerg can take 3 bases for free with queens only. If zerg tries to take that gold early they are easily punished for it in HOTS, esp. with that highground above it. I suppose 1 or 2 200 hp unbuildable rocks wouldn't really hurt, but I wouldn't put actual destructible rocks on it.
@ the 4th base, there's 3 or 4 ways to take your first 4 bases here but I'm assuming you mean the 11/5 o'clock bases. I do think you could lengthen the highground path above that base and then move it slightly further away from the linear third, then just remove the 7/1 o'clock bases or shift them a little and do the island idea.
With those changes the map could be narrowed a little rather than widened. It's already 162x128 which is pretty huge for a 2p map, making it any wider is going to mess with your distances too much.
Even though I think the 7/1 o'clock bases could probably be removed, I tire of the "THIS BASE HAS TO BE CLEARLY DEFINED FOR ONE OF THE PLAYERS!!!1" argument. Or the argument that says that every base has to be a clear part of a linear expansion pattern. Heaven forbid that we ever make anything difficult on the player.. lol. If you expand to the gold as your third, then the base beneath the main is a pretty natural 4th, but then you have no natural 5th and have to expand in the opposite direction. Which is one of the drawbacks of taking the gold in the first place. So it's just a pro/con thing, which is fine.
I will be adding 1 or 2 unbuildable rocks at the golds. They'll easily be able to be broken but it prevents a say 4 minute third at the gold.
I won't be changing up the 6th (or 4th) yet until there are some more games played on it. Currently this is how I see the expansion pattern: + Show Spoiler +
Terran for instance, could take the gold, to be more aggressive, then take the 4th by their main, put a tank or two on the platform behind the 4th and it's pretty safe. It lets them be more aggressive onto the enemy 4th if they expand the other way.
You guys also have to realize it's the could be 6ths you are complaining about. If both players expand vertically, then take the golds that's roughly 5 base play each and you're far enough away from your opponent. The 6th against the main just allows a different expansion path or a last resort base that can still be protected fairly well from your main.
Also, @Fatam, I could easily shrink the map to probably 154x120 or so and it wouldn't change much, but I wanted to add a little more air space around the map.
Actually shrinking the map is an interesting thought. It would make for too small of a map imo but I like the idea. And @fatam you may or may not know that I am the last one to argue every base should be clearly defined. I actually think a lot of maps could use neutral bases well if everything is done right. I should be more clear about what I don't like here.
The thing I don't like is when the expansion layout provides no choice but to have bases near to opponents at the "required" expansion spots, aka 6 bases. You can only have too close bases if it's just a choice to be there, but same games go to 6 bases and having simultaneous mining bases that close is really just making those winners bases. So why not remove them altogether. That's why I immediately went to island as the best solution because it removes the problem altogether and adds an interesting choice of expansion progression.
I mean, yeah you can keep the bases that way and it's fine too, doesn't really hurt the map, other than changing the landscape of lategame to "power through and stick my 6th in their ribs" from something that more rewards tight play. This is kind of a terran problem as well but I won't go there.
I still didn't articulate it properly, I"ll give it another go if someone is really that interested. Suffice to say it's kind of a CS issue, and I would prefer something more interesting for that base.
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/MhAPnF6.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/RYXti8A.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/qJp4kd2.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/SoRSDPu.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/vygTtZc.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/1pdqM74.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/KDpcv5m.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/g2JmmzL.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/kb2i1rM.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ouWv5lX.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/50z8st7.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/SlkLJJ2.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/M4yAxNL.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/PaeqTSC.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/0oJxQpT.jpg)
